The AI could certainly use some work. The heroes do generally focus on monster buildings first if there is a bounty on it. Which is not always a bad plan of attack, honestly. I've seen Rogues sneak behind buildings and slowly take them apart, which I really can't complain about.
The Monsters really should prioritize buildings less than they do. It's a cheap way to increase difficulty that makes the game less fun. (It's also a very common flaw in RTS AI, which is probably why I'm unsuprised by it) Warriors can force enemies to fight them using the shield upgrade. And of course stun/freeze abilities help.
Bearmen are just slightly *cough* over the top. Although they're pretty much supposed to be as far as this mission is concerned. Even so, the mission isn't too hard to beat, once you've got a handle on the map layout and enemy lines of attack.
The demo isn't perfect, but I'm having a lot of fun with it even so. It might help that I've never played the original though, so I can't make any direct comparisons.
I suggest picking up the original if you haven't played it.
The AI displayed in the demo is far below the first Majesty's AI and really can't do it justice. It also will have alot more replayability to then Majesty 2 at release, given the lack of a scenario/map generator in the sequel. It seems like Majesty 2 is focusing more on multiplayer, rather then single-player, given the comments about how "There's a few quick missions, and 16 campaign missions".
Besides, it's only ten bucks currently, last I checked.
I think one of the reasons why I despise the Bearmen and Ogres so much, cheap artificial difficulty inflation aside, is that the original Majesty was much more fair in how they handled monsters like that.
Typically, unless you were playing on the hardest difficulty, you'd get maybe one to two of those monsters attacking your town every now and then, rather then a constant stream of insanely powerful monsters.
Monsters like that, in the original, are top tier city destroyers, only being beaten by special named bosses. They're the ones that come in to wreck your defenseless city, after the armies of ratmen, goblins, orcs, undead, and other weaker monsters have destroyed any semblance of control you have over it.
You're not meant to take on small armies of them all at once in the original. At least, not until the end-game.
It seems like they threw out the concept of sending a diversified number of monsters with unique personalities (IE, Trolls coming out of your marketplace to harass tax collectors and caravans, while weak, but numerous ratman armies poured out of your sewers, forcing your guards to intervene, tying them up, while your heroes get butchered by the giant, undead ice dragon at your gates, all culminating in the complete destruction of order in your city.) to bring the kingdom down piece by piece until it all collapses, in favor of just sending lots of really fucking strong monsters that only target your buildings instead.
Well, you've certainly convinced me not to buy it, at least until or if they fix these issues.
Seems like a typical remake, like Heroes of Might and Magic 5. The new developers seem to not understand or care what made the original compelling. They make something that looks like a modern version of the original, but it has none of the charm.
I guess I'll just wait for Armoured Princess, the expansion to King's Bounty. That is a remake that far exceeds the original.
The AI could certainly use some work. The heroes do generally focus on monster buildings first if there is a bounty on it. Which is not always a bad plan of attack, honestly. I've seen Rogues sneak behind buildings and slowly take them apart, which I really can't complain about.
The Monsters really should prioritize buildings less than they do. It's a cheap way to increase difficulty that makes the game less fun. (It's also a very common flaw in RTS AI, which is probably why I'm unsuprised by it) Warriors can force enemies to fight them using the shield upgrade. And of course stun/freeze abilities help.
Bearmen are just slightly *cough* over the top. Although they're pretty much supposed to be as far as this mission is concerned. Even so, the mission isn't too hard to beat, once you've got a handle on the map layout and enemy lines of attack.
The demo isn't perfect, but I'm having a lot of fun with it even so. It might help that I've never played the original though, so I can't make any direct comparisons.
I suggest picking up the original if you haven't played it.
The AI displayed in the demo is far below the first Majesty's AI and really can't do it justice. It also will have alot more replayability to then Majesty 2 at release, given the lack of a scenario/map generator in the sequel. It seems like Majesty 2 is focusing more on multiplayer, rather then single-player, given the comments about how "There's a few quick missions, and 16 campaign missions".
Besides, it's only ten bucks currently, last I checked.
I think one of the reasons why I despise the Bearmen and Ogres so much, cheap artificial difficulty inflation aside, is that the original Majesty was much more fair in how they handled monsters like that.
Typically, unless you were playing on the hardest difficulty, you'd get maybe one to two of those monsters attacking your town every now and then, rather then a constant stream of insanely powerful monsters.
Monsters like that, in the original, are top tier city destroyers, only being beaten by special named bosses. They're the ones that come in to wreck your defenseless city, after the armies of ratmen, goblins, orcs, undead, and other weaker monsters have destroyed any semblance of control you have over it.
You're not meant to take on small armies of them all at once in the original. At least, not until the end-game.
It seems like they threw out the concept of sending a diversified number of monsters with unique personalities (IE, Trolls coming out of your marketplace to harass tax collectors and caravans, while weak, but numerous ratman armies poured out of your sewers, forcing your guards to intervene, tying them up, while your heroes get butchered by the giant, undead ice dragon at your gates, all culminating in the complete destruction of order in your city.) to bring the kingdom down piece by piece until it all collapses, in favor of just sending lots of really fucking strong monsters that only target your buildings instead.
Considering that the scenario in the demo is basicly The Fertile Plain from Majesty 1, you can't really complain about the abundance of Ogres and Bearmen just by what we saw in the demo.
Also, other than Healers following Warriors, and Rangers following Barbarians, I don't remember any instance where heroes would deliberatly team up in the first game. I do agree the AI needs a little work though.
I will not be purchasing unless it gets added/expansioned in at a later date. The level generator and it's awesomeness is why I played M1 for so long. If it's not in 2, then I can't see myself playing for longer than however long it takes to finish the campaign. So like a week.
Why'd they have to cut skirmish :x:x:x:x:x:x
Darkchampion3d on
Our country is now taking so steady a course as to show by what road it will pass to destruction, to wit: by consolidation of power first, and then corruption, its necessary consequence --Thomas Jefferson
I suggest picking up the original if you haven't played it.
Oh, I own the original, I just can't play it. Crashes at launch, every time.
Is it a Bink video issue? Thats solvable by a -nointro command in the shortcut.
Yeah I don't think its fair to judge the entire game just by the demo. The Overlord II demo was okay but there were massive bugs later on which weren't seen. Who knows, this might just be an earlier build of the game and Paradox might just read their forums and patch the game up accordingly at launch.
Another thing to note is that gameplay is similar to Majesty 1 but the differences make the game stand out (for now) from the original. The AI is a tad dumber but there are ways around it. Monsters going straight for buildings? Flag them first and let your heroes intercept them before they appear. Build more cheap towers to slow them down and prevent them from hitting the buildings that matter. Heroes going on suicide missions? Party them up as much as you can!
Plus, the mission is not impossible. Once you know the tricks to the map (like destroying the ogre lairs to the SW (I hope they switch this up in the real game)), you can pretty much beat the map every time. I can totally understand the frustration when being swarmed by bearmen and ogres but isn't Majesty 1 the same as well? Like what Foefaller said, its just like The Fertile Plain
I'd like a Random Map Generator as well, but having said that, I suddenly can't think of any recent games that included one. Kohan 2 had a (terrible) one, and Age of Empires 3 had it's usual semi-random maps (You'd select a "type" of map, which was always largely the same, but it would randomize some of the details). I'm guessing it's harder to make random placement look right with 3D graphics.
Do we know if the game allows players to make their own maps?
As for no skirmish, I'd be suprised if you can't set up an online or lan game against AI opponents.
I have kind of an old computer, but I am running this demo at 1440x900 and it still seems like I can't see anything. Like all the heroes are tiny and the same color. It's pretty hard to tell what's going on.
LoneIgadzra on
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ArchonexNo hard feelings, right?Registered Userregular
The AI could certainly use some work. The heroes do generally focus on monster buildings first if there is a bounty on it. Which is not always a bad plan of attack, honestly. I've seen Rogues sneak behind buildings and slowly take them apart, which I really can't complain about.
The Monsters really should prioritize buildings less than they do. It's a cheap way to increase difficulty that makes the game less fun. (It's also a very common flaw in RTS AI, which is probably why I'm unsuprised by it) Warriors can force enemies to fight them using the shield upgrade. And of course stun/freeze abilities help.
Bearmen are just slightly *cough* over the top. Although they're pretty much supposed to be as far as this mission is concerned. Even so, the mission isn't too hard to beat, once you've got a handle on the map layout and enemy lines of attack.
The demo isn't perfect, but I'm having a lot of fun with it even so. It might help that I've never played the original though, so I can't make any direct comparisons.
I suggest picking up the original if you haven't played it.
The AI displayed in the demo is far below the first Majesty's AI and really can't do it justice. It also will have alot more replayability to then Majesty 2 at release, given the lack of a scenario/map generator in the sequel. It seems like Majesty 2 is focusing more on multiplayer, rather then single-player, given the comments about how "There's a few quick missions, and 16 campaign missions".
Besides, it's only ten bucks currently, last I checked.
I think one of the reasons why I despise the Bearmen and Ogres so much, cheap artificial difficulty inflation aside, is that the original Majesty was much more fair in how they handled monsters like that.
Typically, unless you were playing on the hardest difficulty, you'd get maybe one to two of those monsters attacking your town every now and then, rather then a constant stream of insanely powerful monsters.
Monsters like that, in the original, are top tier city destroyers, only being beaten by special named bosses. They're the ones that come in to wreck your defenseless city, after the armies of ratmen, goblins, orcs, undead, and other weaker monsters have destroyed any semblance of control you have over it.
You're not meant to take on small armies of them all at once in the original. At least, not until the end-game.
It seems like they threw out the concept of sending a diversified number of monsters with unique personalities (IE, Trolls coming out of your marketplace to harass tax collectors and caravans, while weak, but numerous ratman armies poured out of your sewers, forcing your guards to intervene, tying them up, while your heroes get butchered by the giant, undead ice dragon at your gates, all culminating in the complete destruction of order in your city.) to bring the kingdom down piece by piece until it all collapses, in favor of just sending lots of really fucking strong monsters that only target your buildings instead.
Considering that the scenario in the demo is basicly The Fertile Plain from Majesty 1, you can't really complain about the abundance of Ogres and Bearmen just by what we saw in the demo.
Also, other than Healers following Warriors, and Rangers following Barbarians, I don't remember any instance where heroes would deliberatly team up in the first game. I do agree the AI needs a little work though.
I'd accept that, if the monsters didn't bolt directly for your buildings. The last stand-esque missions in Majesty 1 never had monsters that did that, because any mission that was on the level of difficulty of the demo mission would fuck up your city pretty fast if they started swarming it repeatedly.
You also shouldn't have to pre-emptively know to destroy the ogre lairs, just because they refuse to respond to hero interaction.
Off the top of my head, there were quite a large number of group combinations in the original. Almost all the heroes would party with each other of their own volition, given the right circumstances. However I most often saw one of the following:
Large groups of high level paladins teaming up to systematically obliterate every high level monster/lair on the map. This actually made me quit using paladins in the random scenario generator, since once I got a couple above level 10, they seemed to go on insane killathon purges that left no real threats to my settlement, if anything at all, if I didn't have respawning lairs on.
The previously mentioned ranger/barbarian combo. One of the listed perks for barbarians/rangers is that they team up with each other, actually.
Priestesses of Krypta and Warriors of Discord. Not that common, given their differing move speeds, but a couple times i've seen Warriors of Discord "hang around" priestesses as they moved toward's an objective. Usually them hanging around involved them dealing out lots of violence to nearby monsters as well.
Wizards will usually either solo stuff at higher levels, or hang around town and other heroes at the lower levels.
Rogues will gladly zerg an objective flag en-masse if you have plenty of them hanging around. Otherwise, you'd usually see them in duo's. They'd also break for the safety of the city at the first sign of danger if they didn't have any back-up items (Shapeshifter potions, healing potions, etc, etc.), leaving any other companions behind to face whatever was attacking them.
Priestesses of Agrela (The healers.) would usually pick a warrior, or another hero if there were none, and follow them, spamming heals on them. The Majesty 2 healers just sort of seem to mill around and heal anyone in any encounter that they chance upon, or go to.
There's probably more that i'm forgetting as well. There's lots of subtle stuff that seems to be missing in this version of Majesty, though given how the demo mission goes, it's rather hard to tell.
Really, the demo wouldn't be that hard if the AI was just better.
Guard's seem to be fuck-all useful, both in terms of combat, and detecting threats in the first place, given their habit of randomly ignoring monsters. Ogres and Bearmen shouldn't make a beeline for the nearest building given how insanely powerful they are, and heroes shouldn't be as mind-numbingly retarded when it comes to their own survival and the survival of other heroes.
Majesty 1 is an old game. Really old, in fact. Given all the leaps we've made in technology since then, they should have improved on the formula that game had. Nevermind the fact that in a game like Majesty, having good AI is one of the core gameplay features, since you can't directly influence your units outside of offering "suggestions".
The party system seems like a way to avoid having to have programmed and QAed the little nuances that the heroes had in the first game. I don't see heroes working together consistently outside of parties, currently, like they did in there. And I definitely don't think that there's the illusion of self-preservation that the Majesty 1 hero units seemed to have.
The entire game reminds me of how I felt when I picked up Dungeon Master 2, after having played Dungeon Master 1, and wondering why there were less units, along with why there wasn't as much character interaction as there was in the original.
That being said, I don't doubt that anyone who's just now heard of Majesty and never played the first one will enjoy the game if they pick it up. It's just that having played Majesty 1, I can't help but notice all the glaring faults in the AI that Majesty 1 didn't have.
I haven't noticed any of the bad A.I quips you've been talking about. In the original Majesty the AI wasn't the brightest either and I rarely saw heroes work together. Most of the time they ran off in their own ass direction to leave other people to die as well.
The point is to put a better emphasis on partying I believe, so that they do end up working together. Basically think of them as being your typical MMO player, they will not help each other unless you force them to do so :P. Otherwise there is some basic AI there to help them work together.
Also, enemies do have different trends in their AI. Bear men and ogres seem to be deliberately made to target buildings. Vampires, skeletons and so forth instead opt to attack heroes at any time possible. I'm loving the demo myself as it seems like majesty 1 but better.
After playing Majesty 1 for a while tonight Achronax, I have to say this: you can complain about monsters and heroes getting tunnel vision and focus on thier target all you want, but at least Majesty 2 doesn't have heroes running away from rats or other encounters they could win.
That was half the reason why Paladins were almost game breakers in the first Majesty: because they would only run if they were injured with no healing potions or truly outmatched.
As for some of the groupings you mentioned... a lot of them (especially Paladins and Rogues) seem to me just a case of heroes with similar programed goals doing the same thing at the same time. I'm pretty sure that Warrior/Healer and Barbarian/Ranger are the only programed, enforced groups in Majesty 1, as in, Healers had a "Following and healing" action and Rangers had an assist barbarians action that had them working together, and no other heroes had any sort of action accociated with helping out other heroes.
I like the demo but for the life of me I can't get far in the scenario it gives. If I kill one of the wyrm lairs it spawns at least 5 at once and they rape my heroes and buildings . The one time I managed to last til ogres I didn't have any heroes able to stand up to them and got killed. Any tips on how to be a competent ruler?
I like the demo but for the life of me I can't get far in the scenario it gives. If I kill one of the wyrm lairs it spawns at least 5 at once and they rape my heroes and buildings . The one time I managed to last til ogres I didn't have any heroes able to stand up to them and got killed. Any tips on how to be a competent ruler?
Here is some tips from the unpro, but I did manage to finish the 75 day demo. they are not written in order or anything.
get all the heroes you can as soon as possible, they are the backbone of your economy and everything else. Cleric first because they are the most durable from level one. after you had fill all the guilds (minus wizard because they are expansive to start with). then start wasting lairs.
the first building you should ever build is generally the market place, research healing potion or just everything since it's relatively cheap
take out the ogre lairs before they start visiting in 3s. they are on bottom left side, there is 4 lairs in total. I usually destroy those lairs before I even deal with the closer undead lairs.
serpents can be held back by a single upgrade guard tower if you are still having problems with them.
after the ogres are dealt with, focus on upgrading your guilds and destroy the nearby lair. You don't even have to bother with the once further away if you don't want to, all the life obliterating monsters spawns from off the map.
get magic bazaar before blacksmith because bazaar also generate income like the market place.
so long as you have a guild of every single type, and continue to distract incoming were-bears with heroes before they eat your buildings, lasting 75 days should not be a problem. this is assuming you taken care of the ogres already, no seriously get rid of them early on.
build wizard guild next to those sewer entrance, this gives the wizards weak rats to level off, should reduce your resurrection bill by a good margin.
First three buildings you build should be Cleric, Fighter and Market. Build the guilds left of the castle. Recruit six heroes, set a flag on the left lair. Build Thieves and Rangers while they're pushing that lair's shit in. Once that lair is gone set an exploration flag in the lower left corner of the map. It'll probably have to be 400-500 to get anyone interested as soon as you place it. There are four ogre lairs and a trading post spot in the lower left part of the map. Build the trading post, don't upgrade it. Destroy the ogre lairs as soon as you see them.
Once that is done you have to go for the other trading posts. Keep building up, focusing on building vast amounts of heroes, instead of upgrades and weapons. Mages guild and second Fighter and Cleric guilds are necessary. Build the Mages guild next to a sewer main, but not if its next to a graveyard, too. The upper left corner is pretty easy to clean out, as long as you focus on one lair at a time with rewards large enough that there's more than one hero going for it.
Rushing and maintaining the trading posts is the most imporant thing in the game. Here's how you build the trading posts: uncover the spot, see if there are lairs right next to it and destroy it (there is one in the NE corner), build the post when you have enough money for the building, a 500 guard flag and a guard tower next to it. Wait for some hero to arrive to the location and start guarding, then build the guard tower next to it. Upgrade both. You're done! You'll probably have to build a mage tower next to them for the SE spot, since a lot of undead spawn there. You'll probably have to occasionally put down guard flags on that one in the last twenty minutes.
The bearmen come from the west. You'll need two dwarf towers and two mage towers to cover that spot. Build a blacksmith, upgrade it without buying any of the weapons, build a dwarf dwelling, build the towers. Now you're set for the rest of the game. Clean out the rest of the map, build up. Don't attack the bear lair in the east. When you have enough money for a temple, build one to Agrela - the resurrection spell is excellent. A few bearmen come from the east and vampires start coming from the NE in the last ten minutes or so, but at that point if you're doing it right, they're not a problem. You can build a couple of dwarf towers there too, if you want.
Megazver on
Chief Tyrol. Academician Megazver of the Jol-Nar Universities
Oh, and AI isn't worse in this game. It's just different. It's more passive on its own and responds better to flags, giving you more control over your heroes. I like it.
Megazver on
Chief Tyrol. Academician Megazver of the Jol-Nar Universities
Oh, and AI isn't worse in this game. It's just different. It's more passive on its own and responds better to flags, giving you more control over your heroes. I like it.
I've only played the original a little now, but yeah. The heroes in the first game are definitely more pro-active, to where they're running all over the map as soon as I build them, but I like the feeling of better control I get with the second game.
While I haven't played the demo yet, I'm kinda worried by this talk about the AI. The lack of direct control was my favorite thing about the first one, and is arguably what made it a unique game. Watching a Paladin try to take on a vampire at level 1 just because it's evil, and thinking, "Oh Sarah Lightsword, you so crazy!" The heroes had a life of their own, and if the sequel has robbed them of that, then I'm going to be sorely disappointed.
Wait, there's no random map/sandbox/custom scenario mode?
None. The excuse that was given was that the game is supposed to be moddable, though there isn't any word of any tools being released yet. So far the only way people have found to mod things is to change the XML data files for the game, allowing them to cheat.
Not to break the normal doom and gloom of Penny Arcade anticipation threads. I have been having a blast with the demo.
One hint. Clerics.
also, the party system is more than a little bit fun, however weird it seemed at first. and on a final note, I may be in love with the priestesses of Krypta, vampyric attacks and tons of skeletons are a fun fun meat shield.
So i'm concerned that this game will be a lot of "on that level you go priestess first, then rangers, then marketplace" or so. Like there will be specific winning formulas to completing missions rather than how the first was which felt more open-ended.
Didn't the first game progress pretty quickly into "find some way to survive 30 minotaurs swarming your base at 4 minutes", or was that the expansion? What would make the second game less freeform than the first?
So i'm concerned that this game will be a lot of "on that level you go priestess first, then rangers, then marketplace" or so. Like there will be specific winning formulas to completing missions rather than how the first was which felt more open-ended.
Of course i could be wrong.
Considering how many different winning strategies I've seen posted for the demo, (or used myself) I don't think it will be a problem.
Most single player missions in RTS games have some sort of optimal path, but that doesn't mean they don't still require improvisation, or that there isn't more than one way to go about it.
Didn't the first game progress pretty quickly into "find some way to survive 30 minotaurs swarming your base at 4 minutes", or was that the expansion? What would make the second game less freeform than the first?
It was about 50/50 in both though yes, most of the "monster will come to rape you very soon" were in the harder quest.
What makes the second game less freeform is that, as far as I can tell, the maps are not randomly generated...
Got through the demo a couple of times (instead of studying) and I must say its really fun. Only thing Im not a fan of is the incredibly fast pace your forced to play at. Doesnt really give you alot of time to explore all the heroes and buildings. Turns into "FUCK NEED MORE CLERICS. OH SHIT BEAR MEN! WIZARD JUST GOT 1-SHOTTED BY AN OGRE! VAMPIRES?!?! WTF". I couldnt even get a trading post or temple up because any peasant that traveled outside my safety net of defensive towers seemed to get instantly swarmed by ratmen/skeletons/ogres. But again, hopefully not every mission will have you frantically fighting for survival. Some things Ive noticed:
-Dwarves are pretty much rock solid. Had a lvl 1 dwarf tank a bearman all the way to lvl 15 before some other heroes decided they should probably help out. The dwarf just kept leveling up faster than the bearman was killing him. At the end of the game my dwarves had more HP than most of my buildings.'
-Wizards are god damn suicidal (until lvl5, then they start 1 shotting things)
-Clerics are absolutely necessary. I cant see any way for any hero to survive if you didnt take clerics.
-Vampires are just annoying. Seems they have an almost total immunity to physical attacks. Had one kill off 2 lvl 20 warriors before a cleric came over and vaporised it.
Overall, the demo looks promising. Really want to try out different missions so I can check out the rest of the heroes. Just hope they release some sort of map pack, or tools, so we get more than 16 missions.
Another thing, I really have no idea why theyre pushing for multiplayer so much. I just dont think fighting against another player would be much fun. Thats just not what this game is about.
Got through the demo a couple of times (instead of studying) and I must say its really fun. Only thing Im not a fan of is the incredibly fast pace your forced to play at. Doesnt really give you alot of time to explore all the heroes and buildings. Turns into "FUCK NEED MORE CLERICS. OH SHIT BEAR MEN! WIZARD JUST GOT 1-SHOTTED BY AN OGRE! VAMPIRES?!?! WTF". I couldnt even get a trading post or temple up because any peasant that traveled outside my safety net of defensive towers seemed to get instantly swarmed by ratmen/skeletons/ogres. But again, hopefully not every mission will have you frantically fighting for survival. Some things Ive noticed:
-Dwarves are pretty much rock solid. Had a lvl 1 dwarf tank a bearman all the way to lvl 15 before some other heroes decided they should probably help out. The dwarf just kept leveling up faster than the bearman was killing him. At the end of the game my dwarves had more HP than most of my buildings.'
-Wizards are god damn suicidal (until lvl5, then they start 1 shotting things)
-Clerics are absolutely necessary. I cant see any way for any hero to survive if you didnt take clerics.
-Vampires are just annoying. Seems they have an almost total immunity to physical attacks. Had one kill off 2 lvl 20 warriors before a cleric came over and vaporised it.
Overall, the demo looks promising. Really want to try out different missions so I can check out the rest of the heroes. Just hope they release some sort of map pack, or tools, so we get more than 16 missions.
Another thing, I really have no idea why theyre pushing for multiplayer so much. I just dont think fighting against another player would be much fun. Thats just not what this game is about.
God i hope they're not going to push multiplayer on this. Flag warfare ftl.
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Delete/rename the music files.
Still no good, but thanks for the tip. It's an old game, I'm not heartbroken that I can't get it to run on a modern computer. 8-)
Well, you've certainly convinced me not to buy it, at least until or if they fix these issues.
Seems like a typical remake, like Heroes of Might and Magic 5. The new developers seem to not understand or care what made the original compelling. They make something that looks like a modern version of the original, but it has none of the charm.
I guess I'll just wait for Armoured Princess, the expansion to King's Bounty. That is a remake that far exceeds the original.
Considering that the scenario in the demo is basicly The Fertile Plain from Majesty 1, you can't really complain about the abundance of Ogres and Bearmen just by what we saw in the demo.
Also, other than Healers following Warriors, and Rangers following Barbarians, I don't remember any instance where heroes would deliberatly team up in the first game. I do agree the AI needs a little work though.
I will not be purchasing unless it gets added/expansioned in at a later date. The level generator and it's awesomeness is why I played M1 for so long. If it's not in 2, then I can't see myself playing for longer than however long it takes to finish the campaign. So like a week.
Why'd they have to cut skirmish :x:x:x:x:x:x
Is it a Bink video issue? Thats solvable by a -nointro command in the shortcut.
Yeah I don't think its fair to judge the entire game just by the demo. The Overlord II demo was okay but there were massive bugs later on which weren't seen. Who knows, this might just be an earlier build of the game and Paradox might just read their forums and patch the game up accordingly at launch.
Another thing to note is that gameplay is similar to Majesty 1 but the differences make the game stand out (for now) from the original. The AI is a tad dumber but there are ways around it. Monsters going straight for buildings? Flag them first and let your heroes intercept them before they appear. Build more cheap towers to slow them down and prevent them from hitting the buildings that matter. Heroes going on suicide missions? Party them up as much as you can!
Plus, the mission is not impossible. Once you know the tricks to the map (like destroying the ogre lairs to the SW (I hope they switch this up in the real game)), you can pretty much beat the map every time. I can totally understand the frustration when being swarmed by bearmen and ogres but isn't Majesty 1 the same as well? Like what Foefaller said, its just like The Fertile Plain
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I'd like a Random Map Generator as well, but having said that, I suddenly can't think of any recent games that included one. Kohan 2 had a (terrible) one, and Age of Empires 3 had it's usual semi-random maps (You'd select a "type" of map, which was always largely the same, but it would randomize some of the details). I'm guessing it's harder to make random placement look right with 3D graphics.
Do we know if the game allows players to make their own maps?
As for no skirmish, I'd be suprised if you can't set up an online or lan game against AI opponents.
I'd accept that, if the monsters didn't bolt directly for your buildings. The last stand-esque missions in Majesty 1 never had monsters that did that, because any mission that was on the level of difficulty of the demo mission would fuck up your city pretty fast if they started swarming it repeatedly.
You also shouldn't have to pre-emptively know to destroy the ogre lairs, just because they refuse to respond to hero interaction.
Off the top of my head, there were quite a large number of group combinations in the original. Almost all the heroes would party with each other of their own volition, given the right circumstances. However I most often saw one of the following:
The previously mentioned ranger/barbarian combo. One of the listed perks for barbarians/rangers is that they team up with each other, actually.
Priestesses of Krypta and Warriors of Discord. Not that common, given their differing move speeds, but a couple times i've seen Warriors of Discord "hang around" priestesses as they moved toward's an objective. Usually them hanging around involved them dealing out lots of violence to nearby monsters as well.
Wizards will usually either solo stuff at higher levels, or hang around town and other heroes at the lower levels.
Rogues will gladly zerg an objective flag en-masse if you have plenty of them hanging around. Otherwise, you'd usually see them in duo's. They'd also break for the safety of the city at the first sign of danger if they didn't have any back-up items (Shapeshifter potions, healing potions, etc, etc.), leaving any other companions behind to face whatever was attacking them.
Priestesses of Agrela (The healers.) would usually pick a warrior, or another hero if there were none, and follow them, spamming heals on them. The Majesty 2 healers just sort of seem to mill around and heal anyone in any encounter that they chance upon, or go to.
There's probably more that i'm forgetting as well. There's lots of subtle stuff that seems to be missing in this version of Majesty, though given how the demo mission goes, it's rather hard to tell.
Really, the demo wouldn't be that hard if the AI was just better.
Guard's seem to be fuck-all useful, both in terms of combat, and detecting threats in the first place, given their habit of randomly ignoring monsters. Ogres and Bearmen shouldn't make a beeline for the nearest building given how insanely powerful they are, and heroes shouldn't be as mind-numbingly retarded when it comes to their own survival and the survival of other heroes.
Majesty 1 is an old game. Really old, in fact. Given all the leaps we've made in technology since then, they should have improved on the formula that game had. Nevermind the fact that in a game like Majesty, having good AI is one of the core gameplay features, since you can't directly influence your units outside of offering "suggestions".
The party system seems like a way to avoid having to have programmed and QAed the little nuances that the heroes had in the first game. I don't see heroes working together consistently outside of parties, currently, like they did in there. And I definitely don't think that there's the illusion of self-preservation that the Majesty 1 hero units seemed to have.
The entire game reminds me of how I felt when I picked up Dungeon Master 2, after having played Dungeon Master 1, and wondering why there were less units, along with why there wasn't as much character interaction as there was in the original.
That being said, I don't doubt that anyone who's just now heard of Majesty and never played the first one will enjoy the game if they pick it up. It's just that having played Majesty 1, I can't help but notice all the glaring faults in the AI that Majesty 1 didn't have.
The point is to put a better emphasis on partying I believe, so that they do end up working together. Basically think of them as being your typical MMO player, they will not help each other unless you force them to do so :P. Otherwise there is some basic AI there to help them work together.
Also, enemies do have different trends in their AI. Bear men and ogres seem to be deliberately made to target buildings. Vampires, skeletons and so forth instead opt to attack heroes at any time possible. I'm loving the demo myself as it seems like majesty 1 but better.
That was half the reason why Paladins were almost game breakers in the first Majesty: because they would only run if they were injured with no healing potions or truly outmatched.
As for some of the groupings you mentioned... a lot of them (especially Paladins and Rogues) seem to me just a case of heroes with similar programed goals doing the same thing at the same time. I'm pretty sure that Warrior/Healer and Barbarian/Ranger are the only programed, enforced groups in Majesty 1, as in, Healers had a "Following and healing" action and Rangers had an assist barbarians action that had them working together, and no other heroes had any sort of action accociated with helping out other heroes.
Streaming 8PST on weeknights
And the dwarf spell.
And the guard flag.
/run dxdiag
disable Directdraw
Here is some tips from the unpro, but I did manage to finish the 75 day demo. they are not written in order or anything.
get all the heroes you can as soon as possible, they are the backbone of your economy and everything else. Cleric first because they are the most durable from level one. after you had fill all the guilds (minus wizard because they are expansive to start with). then start wasting lairs.
the first building you should ever build is generally the market place, research healing potion or just everything since it's relatively cheap
take out the ogre lairs before they start visiting in 3s. they are on bottom left side, there is 4 lairs in total. I usually destroy those lairs before I even deal with the closer undead lairs.
serpents can be held back by a single upgrade guard tower if you are still having problems with them.
after the ogres are dealt with, focus on upgrading your guilds and destroy the nearby lair. You don't even have to bother with the once further away if you don't want to, all the life obliterating monsters spawns from off the map.
get magic bazaar before blacksmith because bazaar also generate income like the market place.
so long as you have a guild of every single type, and continue to distract incoming were-bears with heroes before they eat your buildings, lasting 75 days should not be a problem. this is assuming you taken care of the ogres already, no seriously get rid of them early on.
build wizard guild next to those sewer entrance, this gives the wizards weak rats to level off, should reduce your resurrection bill by a good margin.
Once that is done you have to go for the other trading posts. Keep building up, focusing on building vast amounts of heroes, instead of upgrades and weapons. Mages guild and second Fighter and Cleric guilds are necessary. Build the Mages guild next to a sewer main, but not if its next to a graveyard, too. The upper left corner is pretty easy to clean out, as long as you focus on one lair at a time with rewards large enough that there's more than one hero going for it.
Rushing and maintaining the trading posts is the most imporant thing in the game. Here's how you build the trading posts: uncover the spot, see if there are lairs right next to it and destroy it (there is one in the NE corner), build the post when you have enough money for the building, a 500 guard flag and a guard tower next to it. Wait for some hero to arrive to the location and start guarding, then build the guard tower next to it. Upgrade both. You're done! You'll probably have to build a mage tower next to them for the SE spot, since a lot of undead spawn there. You'll probably have to occasionally put down guard flags on that one in the last twenty minutes.
The bearmen come from the west. You'll need two dwarf towers and two mage towers to cover that spot. Build a blacksmith, upgrade it without buying any of the weapons, build a dwarf dwelling, build the towers. Now you're set for the rest of the game. Clean out the rest of the map, build up. Don't attack the bear lair in the east. When you have enough money for a temple, build one to Agrela - the resurrection spell is excellent. A few bearmen come from the east and vampires start coming from the NE in the last ten minutes or so, but at that point if you're doing it right, they're not a problem. You can build a couple of dwarf towers there too, if you want.
That worked. Thanks!
I've only played the original a little now, but yeah. The heroes in the first game are definitely more pro-active, to where they're running all over the map as soon as I build them, but I like the feeling of better control I get with the second game.
Try the demo first. It's natural for people to discuss the differences, but they can sound bigger than they are if you haven't played the game yet.
Ah, someone made a youtube video of the demo level. You can try watching that to get an idea how it works.
http://majesty2.blog.hu/2009/09/13/demo_vegigjatszas_video
this game has gone from hmm intersting to. I WANT IT. it was a lot of fun.
However, I have to say I preordered the game and can't stop playing the demo (finally beat it last night after failing miserably for the past 2 days)
play the demo before trusting too much on somebody else's opinion.
And who knows if that survival map is 100% representative of the final game?
Streaming 8PST on weeknights
I'm seeing it for $39.99. Did I miss a sale or something?
IOS Game Center ID: Isotope-X
None. The excuse that was given was that the game is supposed to be moddable, though there isn't any word of any tools being released yet. So far the only way people have found to mod things is to change the XML data files for the game, allowing them to cheat.
One hint. Clerics.
also, the party system is more than a little bit fun, however weird it seemed at first. and on a final note, I may be in love with the priestesses of Krypta, vampyric attacks and tons of skeletons are a fun fun meat shield.
Links?
I can't bother to link individually.
Streaming 8PST on weeknights
Of course i could be wrong.
Considering how many different winning strategies I've seen posted for the demo, (or used myself) I don't think it will be a problem.
Most single player missions in RTS games have some sort of optimal path, but that doesn't mean they don't still require improvisation, or that there isn't more than one way to go about it.
It was about 50/50 in both though yes, most of the "monster will come to rape you very soon" were in the harder quest.
What makes the second game less freeform is that, as far as I can tell, the maps are not randomly generated...
-Dwarves are pretty much rock solid. Had a lvl 1 dwarf tank a bearman all the way to lvl 15 before some other heroes decided they should probably help out. The dwarf just kept leveling up faster than the bearman was killing him. At the end of the game my dwarves had more HP than most of my buildings.'
-Wizards are god damn suicidal (until lvl5, then they start 1 shotting things)
-Clerics are absolutely necessary. I cant see any way for any hero to survive if you didnt take clerics.
-Vampires are just annoying. Seems they have an almost total immunity to physical attacks. Had one kill off 2 lvl 20 warriors before a cleric came over and vaporised it.
Overall, the demo looks promising. Really want to try out different missions so I can check out the rest of the heroes. Just hope they release some sort of map pack, or tools, so we get more than 16 missions.
Another thing, I really have no idea why theyre pushing for multiplayer so much. I just dont think fighting against another player would be much fun. Thats just not what this game is about.
God i hope they're not going to push multiplayer on this. Flag warfare ftl.