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A twinkless mmorpg server... (for improved balance and economy)
eobet
8-bit childhoodSwedenRegistered User regular
8-bit childhoodSwedenRegistered User regular
...does anyone but me think that sounds like a wonderful idea?
Yes, my personal gripe is with WOW, at how ridiculus the prices at the AH have become, and how silly it is to see low level characters outfitted with the best armor in every slot with powerful enchants on all of them.
I hope people here will have ideas on how to keep server economy at a somewhat consistent level, and prevent money from high level players to trickle down to lower levels.
As the thread starter, this is the definition I had in mind, so for this thread, let's please stick to this.
DOUBLE EDIT:
At a weak moment, I changed the topic title to "twinkless and ALTless", but that was of course wrong. Alts are fine (?). In order to keep the server economy stable, the NPCs need to follow any inflation on player traded items, AND a system needs to be in place so that an item can never be transferred to a character on the same account/credit card it originated from.
Yes, my personal gripe is with WOW, at how ridiculus the prices at the AH have become, and how silly it is to see low level characters outfitted with the best armor in every slot with powerful enchants on all of them.
I hope people here will have ideas on how to keep server economy at a somewhat consistent level, and prevent money from high level players to trickle down to lower levels.
A twink is someone who gets good shit passed onto them from a higher level/richer character, not someone who knows how to play his fucking class.
As the thread starter, this is the definition I had in mind, so for this thread, let's please stick to this.
DOUBLE EDIT:
At a weak moment, I changed the topic title to "twinkless and ALTless", but that was of course wrong. Alts are fine (?). In order to keep the server economy stable, the NPCs need to follow any inflation on player traded items, AND a system needs to be in place so that an item can never be transferred to a character on the same account/credit card it originated from.
Heard the proposition that RIAA and MPAA should join forces and form "Music And Film Industry Association"?
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But overall twinking doesn't bother me. It's their gold, let them spend it how they want. I do feel RMT could have something to do with it, but that problem isn't one that is going away anytime soon. The rich get richer, and the poor grind longer.
PSN: Dyvion -- Eternal: Dyvion+9393 -- Genshin Impact: Dyvion
I don't think it's possible to have a system that allows for players to transfer money between them (ie: an economy) where this could possibly happen.
Prevent me from passing gold from my Rogue to my Druid? I'll just use a second account or a friend to pass the money along.
Somehow prevent that? And I'll just work out something outside of game, where I give a buddy $5 and he 'buys' some piece of shit off me for a bunch of cash.
It'd be a nightmare.
If you had a relatively gearless game (or at least, nothing could be purchased, even novelty or aesthetic items) I suppose it'd be easier to balance, but the moment you introduce BoE or Non-Bound gear into a game with a currency, and expect people to trade one for the other, players that have gotten to higher levels can and will 'twink' alts and friend's characters with better gear and cash from their higher level mains / former mains.
I understand the frustration. I've watched Terocone go from 20 gold a stack to up to 80 gold a stack or more. If I wished to buy terrocone, this would be terribly frustrating. Luckily, I can farm my own and thus the high prices benefit me if I should choose to do so, allowing me to trade my time (farming) for materials (terocone) into gold for epic flying mounts or other materials (primal fire, for example).
The way people and many of our societies have worked leads me to believe that it'd be a monstrous undertaking to design such a system, and even if you succeeded in doing so fairly, it'd probably be a hard sell to get the Massive part of an MMORPG filled in with players.
Want a balanced, unchanging economy? Single player RPGs are chalk full of 'em. Add more than 1 person to the mix, however, and things get significantly more complicated.
http://www.sirlin.net/archive/playing-to-win-part-1/
Play to win
http://steamcommunity.com/id/Daymion
As for the gameplay effects of twinking (in WoW, at least)? meh, it's not a big deal.
Why complain about twinks? You will meet them at every stage in WoW, be it the guy with +15 agility enchants on his level 19 rogue, or the Warglaive/T6/S4 geared rogue at 70.
Either way, fighting rogues in PVP sucks! :rotate:
I'm assuming it's a character who has gear/enchant quality highly disproportionate to his level, thanks to the donation from another character or characters.
One current example of a semi-split economy is WoW, where you can buy things with gold or you can buy things with badges. Similarly, if you wanted to stop low levels from inflating prices, you could introduce a new type of currency with a level requirement just to hold it. Then you have the lowbie economy and the high economy, instead of having rich players overpaying lowbies for small necessities and then the lowbies having more buying power which inflates prices, etc.
It's annoying, but then you get to the point where you start selling things yourself and suddenly you understand the mindset. Although personally? I undercut everyone else significantly on the AH. Do what it takes to sell the stuff and make the cash, and maybe lower some prices in the process.
I have much the same defenition, just saying that I don't see what would be so great about there not being twinks at low levels. There will almost always be someone with better gear than you, get used to it now!
Twink doesn't require getting an item donated/passed down, it simply means having the best possible equipment/abilities given your current level, having your strengths maximized and weaknesses minimized.
There is always such a thing as a low level twink, that just means you are using the very best green items you possibly can. They matter in PvP terms when you are restricted to a certain low level.
edit: or, as reVerse has indicated, someone who was simply good at the game, depending on the disparity to the average player.
A twink is someone who gets good shit passed onto them from a higher level/richer character, not someone who knows how to play his fucking class.
"Some men are born great, some achieve greatness, some get it as a graduation gift..."
Which just made me realize that your president is a twink!
I think that's a lot more relevant in games where winning is based on being good at the game.
If you think there's something wrong with twinking then it's YOUR mindset that is the problem. You are following some fictional set of "civil conduct" rules in a video game.
Level 70 does not equal knowing how to play your class I can tell you that right now.
http://steamcommunity.com/id/Daymion
http://steamcommunity.com/id/Daymion
People who don't play twinks don't want to play a game where everyone plays by some mythical ruleset, people who don't play twinks just don't want to spend a year playing their level 70 to be competitive in the 10-19 bracket.
Playing to win is a nice idea but it really falls apart when you're not playing to win so much as you're playing to make the game less fun for other people.
Did you quote the wrong guy or something, because you're replying to a lot of shit I never said. Makes you seem thick.
I think he's just going through his whole "DON'T TELL ME TWINKING IS BAD I'M SO COOL" spiel.
I'd ignore him.
Unless you just bought the game and are playing for the first time.
I wonder, does this sound about right:
Killing a monster at level 6 and level 60 takes about the same time. You just use cooler gear, cooler skills and fight cooler monsters at level 60. Could it then be that they calculate that about say 33% of your gold rewards will go to repairs and maintenance to be able to continue killing, 33% for making your character learn more stuff and 33% for equipping your character. That would make gold in vs. gold out pretty even. However, when you reach the end game, you don't have to learn anything new or get new equipment, so suddenly, there's 66% more gold to spend and that's where twinks are born and the economic system fails?
I'm not making any assumptions.
You seem to be making the assumption that twinks min/max their gear in order to make the game less fun for others when that is not true at all.
People gear up at any level to be the best they can. If you already have a 70 and you want to pvp in a certain bracket because you find that bracket fun and competitive, why would you not pimp them out? Isn't that what the whole game is about at 70?? Getting better and better gear?
People who don't play twinks should be prepared to compete against people who do twink, as it is a part of the game, however unhappy it may make you, many people find great enjoyment in gearing up a low level character for pvp in that bracket.
http://steamcommunity.com/id/Daymion
It doesn't make me unhappy, because twinks in my battlegroup are really, really bad.
I'm pretty sure the entire idea of twinking is to make things less competitive, however.
http://steamcommunity.com/id/Daymion
They are bad enough that I can I do just fine in the 20s bracket as a level 25 rogue.
That's pretty bad.
And if the people in your battlegroup who don't twink are already bad, why even bother? Do you feel it is necessary to humiliate them.
No, but it's a side effect.
Also, I think about it this way:
If you're a kid with a trust fund who, say brings a Bugatti Veyron to a local, small town street race where people might have the money to get new fancy tires on their standard cars, and you do so in order to kick everybody's ass, you are probably an asshole.
Thing is, in real life, rich kids play with rich kids.
In MMORPGs (especially on PVP servers and in the Battlegrounds) there is currently no mechanism to avoid people like that. We are all forced to play together, and suddenly, the game's balance is ruined.
The sweeping generalization about twinking holds up every. damn. time.
Yes, but this isn't real life and again, you're argument is based on some belief that gearing up a character to be as powerful as possible is somehow only achievable by some and not everyone. Lets not kid ourselves about how easy it is to make gold in wow.
@Salt: it has nothing to do with the people that don't twink and me wanting to humiliate them. I twink my characters because I want to be as badass as possible, (like everyone else playing this game). My main is a mage that I started on a PVP server and I twinked him through every bracket except 50-59, on my own, no guild, no other high lvl character.
@others: I'm not even going to respond to the ridiculous notion that you can somehow generalize all players who twink into some category of skill... I know good twinks and bad twinks, I know people at 70 who don't know their class from their elbow. You might as well have said all undead don't know how to play their class.
http://steamcommunity.com/id/Daymion
In all my experience with RPGs, twinking always just involved getting/having the best stuff. You can twink your guys in FFX by min/maxing the entire sphere grid. You can twink in DnD by taking extra care to design your character around stats and abilities rather than looking at it from a roleplaying perspective. Getting stuff from somebody else could potentially help you twink, but that's not what twinking is itself.
http://steamcommunity.com/id/Daymion
Actually its even better for people who are just starting. The mass amount of twinking means you can sell low level stuff for high amounts. Imagine your Nubby McNubnub the level 40 rogue. You need a mount (lets assume this is before the mount change thing) so you need to make 100g for a mount. If this was a couple years ago you would have to sell more because stuff sold for less. Wool Cloth (which usually sells for a high price) used to sell for 20s-1g max but now it sells for 5-6g a stack. Its the same for all low level tradeskill items and if you are lucky enough to find a BoE blue/epic then you're in the money (I recently found some cruddy level 40ish mail with a bunch of spi and str and it sold for 100g). The money you have to pay the game stays the same however the money you can earn from other people has increased.
As the thread starter, this is the definition I had in mind, so for this thread, let's please stick to this.
Did you buy your own lvl 19 blue and put at lvl 60 enchant on it at 19?
I just started horde for the first time on a new server, and this is exactly right. I'm funding all my early levels by selling Deviate Fish for a gold apiece.
http://steamcommunity.com/id/Daymion
Getting stuff by yourself, making your character as powerful as possible, is not twinking. It's just playing the game and gearing up.
A key element of twinking, why it's called twinking and not just gearing up, is the fact that a higher level character provides a lower level character with money and good gear.
No, actually the assumption is that any asshole with a lvl 70 who has nothing better to do than to gear up a lvl 29 character to the extreme, sucks at the game and cannot actually play the game at 70, so they have to torture any lowbies that might happen to wander into a 29 BG to feel better about themselves.