Gluth is my favorite fight. I just throw down earth bind totems, repeat repeat repeat. Does not matter who does it at this point. Last night our DK got gimped, and pug rogue picked it up and just used sprint and dodge skill with me healing him. Very easy fight if the person kiting knows how to kite.
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ThomamelasOnly one man can kill this many Russians. Bring his guitar to me! Registered Userregular
edited March 2009
I like Gluth. Nothing like getting a 10 stack of his debuff to test how good your avoidance really is.
99 stacks is something I'd have to see to believe.
I get up to 99 if I single kite them as a tank. This is only if it goes past the second decimate though. If I'm the only kiter, there better damn well be an extra dps going to down on him and make sure we don't even get anywhere near the 2nd decimate.
15 or so zombies can get you to 99 fairly quickly.
Wow. What are they hitting you for?
4000 or so. They don't hit particularly hard, but 15 of them do. I can usually avoid them but sometimes after the decimate the pickup can get a little shakey.
With a hunter frost trap it's a non-issue that I'll even get hit for maybe more than 15 stacks. My guild is not known for raid stacking at all, we run with what we have sign up, unfortunately. 10 man I can pretty much stand in the one spot and tank them.
bowen on
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
For the record, on 10s we just send back some combination of DPS+healer than includes a class with an aoe snare. I've never done it because warlock is not among those classes, but man, 99 stacks?
Eat it You Nasty Pig. on
it was the smallest on the list but
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ThomamelasOnly one man can kill this many Russians. Bring his guitar to me! Registered Userregular
For the record, on 10s we just send back some combination of DPS+healer than includes a class with an aoe snare. I've never done it because warlock is not among those classes, but man, 99 stacks?
I've done it in 10 mans and I've gotten up around a 42 stack. They weren't killing me even in shitty gear. And I needed the mana.
We usually have a pally tank back there with a shaman healer to keep an eye on him and a hunter at more or less max range to gluth keeping a frost trap down. Our tank will still get 99 stacks, even with both earthbind and frost trap. I'm not really sure how the pally is supposed to avoid getting so many stacks. If it were just a matter of moving around a slow bunch of adds, yes, that'd be easy. But he's also got to pick up the new spawns, which is bound to get him close enough for a few attacks.
But I've never been back there to see what exactly they're doing. I just know we've tried getting our mage to respec to frost and he nearly ran out of mana before Gluth's first decimate trying to keep the chow from getting too close to him.
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AngryThe glory I had witnessedwas just a sleight of handRegistered Userregular
edited March 2009
if he has earthbind AND frost trap and he's getting 99 stacks then he's really horrible.
Except he's, you know, not. He's a fantastic tank. He might not be good at kiting, but seeing as how I don't really know much about kiting I can't correct him.
Goddamn... I think I get like 25-30 stacks tops* when kiting trash on Gluth. But, I keep them in the ice trap/earthbind as much as I can and Pursuit of Justice helps with that.
I... don't remember how much exactly, but it's not a whole lot. I'll check this next week
CoT: CoS needs to come with a "Start Button." If everyone in the group presses it, the game skips the useless cinematic that is the first 10 minutes of the dungeon.
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Kevin CristI make the devil hit his kneesand say the 'our father'Registered Userregular
edited March 2009
Just out of curiosity, do raids doing Sarth+3 clear the trash or just run up to Sarth?
Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
Except he's, you know, not. He's a fantastic tank. He might not be good at kiting, but seeing as how I don't really know much about kiting I can't correct him.
I would like to point to evidence A: tank is horrible (failure to kite on gluth with earthbind and frost trap)
Use taunt, judge, and exo to get hate. Drop consecrates. When zombies get too close, use holy wrath, drop consecrate, and run through them.
Munkus Beaver on
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
edited March 2009
Seriously, if you can't kite, you're not a fantastic tank.
You might be capable at the role of tanking, but that doesn't make you a good tank.
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
edited March 2009
Kiting is actually key to what makes a tank a good tank.
It means that you are good with positioning and you can use your abilities on the fly.
I can get a retarded 3 year old to hold aggro, if that's all you want.
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
edited March 2009
Precisely my point. He might be able to fulfil the role of a tank...ie...someone points him in the direction of a mob, and he goes and holds aggro on it, but he wouldn't be able to do something like flame tanking Illidan solely because its not a typical tank role.
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
edited March 2009
A good judge of a tank in this era is how well they can position malygos so that the sparks get to your group.
Full of melee.
Without a DK in sight.
Munkus Beaver on
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
I'd also recommend saving Holy Wrath for the decimate on Gluth. Having that few second stun to burn the adds down could help a lot.
I'm just saying, is all.
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
edited March 2009
You should be kiting them in the backfield, for starters. For second, they should be in an earthbind/frost-trap to start anyway. For third, if your DPS can't waste the zombies after a decimate, then you are probably raiding on the short bus. Use Holy Wrath to help kite.
Munkus Beaver on
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
A good judge of a tank in this era is how well they can position malygos so that the sparks get to your group.
Full of melee.
Without a DK in sight.
That's a terrible fucking judge of a good tank.
Make it "full of melee and three hunters" and we'll call it even.
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
edited March 2009
I hate stupid hunters on Malygos.
"LOL I CANT GET SPARK BUFF L2TANK"
while standing in the dead center of the spark that i have bucked up against Maly's flank so that melee can be on one edge and hunters can be on the opposite egde
I'd also recommend saving Holy Wrath for the decimate on Gluth. Having that few second stun to burn the adds down could help a lot.
I'm just saying, is all.
This is what I do. I can take the damage and if I risk taking it, that means the hunters and shamans can dps an extra 4-5 seconds. That's a whole lot of extra dps considering they're usually the DPS toppers. I'll take a 99 stack on 10 man and a ~30 stack on 25 man to get gluth down slightly after the first decimate. It's a non-issue when you're not wearing cloth.
bowen on
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
Guess that makes me a survivable tank since my group is normally for 10 man maly, 2 ret pallies, enhance shaman, kitty druid,a hunter and currently an elemental shaman. Rarely do I get the call about shitty placement. Though that fight is as much about the kiting and threat as it is about actually having situational awareness.
Haven't kited the gluth zombies since I just sit there and tank his doggy ass. Kind of want to try one day to see how it goes.
Guess that makes me a survivable tank since my group is normally for 10 man maly, 2 ret pallies, enhance shaman, kitty druid,a hunter and currently an elemental shaman. Rarely do I get the call about shitty placement. Though that fight is as much about the kiting and threat as it is about actually having situational awareness.
Haven't kited the gluth zombies since I just sit there and tank his doggy ass. Kind of want to try one day to see how it goes.
Kiting zombies, without getting many debuffs, has little to do with positioning and kiting a boss, or the earmarks of a good tank. Going from point A to point B when you have one spell that has a 30 second cooldown and no other speed boosts and not getting more than 5 stacks doesn't necessarily make you any better at tanking a boss.
That's like using PvP as a measure of a good player/DPS or claiming a feral druid tank is doing 18000 dps.
bowen on
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
I was talking more about kiting in general. As I stated, I have never kited the zombies. Tanking is as much about holding threat on patchwerk as it is about kiting on Maly or Grob. Sorry, was going more off Munkus's and Dhalphir's discussion than zombie stuff.
Tuskarr's Vitality makes kiting Gluth really easy if you have no other speed buffs. Personally, I single kite as a feral druid on both 10/25 man. Sit on top of one grate, mangle the zombie as it spawns, then charge across to the other one and mangle. Depending on our class make up, I either eat the stacks to work up infected wounds on all the chow, or if we have a hunter for frost trap, I just make a big loop charging from spawn to spawn.
I loved watching our MT drag Malygos around to position sparks, it seemed really elegant and well done. We don't seem to do it anymore, sadly.
Got in a few runs at Ignis on normal on the PTR last night. Whichever designer decided that the magma pot he chucks you in should be positioned in the groinal area is a genius. "Crotch Pot" is now a permanent term for that fight. As in, "I'm being crotch potted", or "I'm in the crotch pot." Also his damage seemed a bit too high. But it was exciting poking at some new content. I think we might bail on Naxx tonight to try out the Deconstructor if it's up, too.
The only problem I have with tanking Malygos is when the sparks come from behind me. I can't seem to get any of the officers to understand that vent has a small lag behind WoW and they need to do a /rw if sparks are behind me.
I loved watching our MT drag Malygos around to position sparks, it seemed really elegant and well done. We don't seem to do it anymore, sadly.
I was pretty upset at my lack of...skill I guess? I dunno, but I felt kind of slower on the uptake with the sparks. Of course it was my first time (teehee), and I hope my group (with 2 DK's) wasn't too harsh on my skillziz.
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
So far our problem with Malygos hasn't been the tank positioning, but getting the ranged dps to not kill the sparks a mile from everyone.
Specifically our two huntards...
one of which does 1200 dps in naxx 51% of damage coming from autoshot o_O
the other of which does decent dps (#3 in boss fights) but tends to steal aggro from our tank and not use aggro wiping abilities. we can't figure out what he is doing to generate so much threat. all i know is he is survival spec'd.
Both of them do stupid stuff, spores on lolthieb, sparks on maly. Running into stationary gargoyles in plague wing etc.
So far our problem with Malygos hasn't been the tank positioning, but getting the ranged dps to not kill the sparks a mile from everyone.
My old guild was having that problem, the solution was that one day during Naxx 25, we got Spore Loser on threat of /gkick if we killed a spore. At all. Three weeks in a row. No gkicks, but DKP penalties and a few regulars found themselves downgraded to backup, but eventually it got sorted out.
Loatheb makes a nice place for people to practice not killing things until told to, because there's no risk of buffing the boss, and no real consequences if somebody breaks one in a bad place. Need excellent healers to make it through the achievement, but it is one a lot of guilds don't do since it's not on the meta.
Survival spec dps right now is the best you can get as a hunter, so he must truly be a huntard. Even in our casual raiding guild we don't reinvite people with that low dps. We try to tell them they're too low so they can actively improve, but 9 times out of 10 someone who is low on dps isn't going to want to bother getting better at it.
The only time I've seen different is an enhance shammy who started at like 900 dps in naxx. We talked to him and told him a few websites he could use to get better talent builds/battle strategies. Now he's consistently in our top 3 dps.
The lotheb idea is good though, I may have to try that out.
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4000 or so. They don't hit particularly hard, but 15 of them do. I can usually avoid them but sometimes after the decimate the pickup can get a little shakey.
With a hunter frost trap it's a non-issue that I'll even get hit for maybe more than 15 stacks. My guild is not known for raid stacking at all, we run with what we have sign up, unfortunately. 10 man I can pretty much stand in the one spot and tank them.
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
I've done it in 10 mans and I've gotten up around a 42 stack. They weren't killing me even in shitty gear. And I needed the mana.
But I've never been back there to see what exactly they're doing. I just know we've tried getting our mage to respec to frost and he nearly ran out of mana before Gluth's first decimate trying to keep the chow from getting too close to him.
that's pretty much all there is to it.
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I would like to point to evidence A: tank is horrible (failure to kite on gluth with earthbind and frost trap)
Use taunt, judge, and exo to get hate. Drop consecrates. When zombies get too close, use holy wrath, drop consecrate, and run through them.
You might be capable at the role of tanking, but that doesn't make you a good tank.
It means that you are good with positioning and you can use your abilities on the fly.
I can get a retarded 3 year old to hold aggro, if that's all you want.
Full of melee.
Without a DK in sight.
I'm just saying, is all.
Being able to stun all of the zombies no matter where they are twice a decimate is REALLY nice to just add a little bit of buffer.
Edit: Thought that was mostly directed at me (long day of zoning out, apologies >.<)
If it's a prot pally kiting, then yeah I could see using Holy Wrath. If it's ret... kinda iffy there.
That's a terrible fucking judge of a good tank.
Make it "full of melee and three hunters" and we'll call it even.
"LOL I CANT GET SPARK BUFF L2TANK"
while standing in the dead center of the spark that i have bucked up against Maly's flank so that melee can be on one edge and hunters can be on the opposite egde
This is what I do. I can take the damage and if I risk taking it, that means the hunters and shamans can dps an extra 4-5 seconds. That's a whole lot of extra dps considering they're usually the DPS toppers. I'll take a 99 stack on 10 man and a ~30 stack on 25 man to get gluth down slightly after the first decimate. It's a non-issue when you're not wearing cloth.
Haven't kited the gluth zombies since I just sit there and tank his doggy ass. Kind of want to try one day to see how it goes.
Kiting zombies, without getting many debuffs, has little to do with positioning and kiting a boss, or the earmarks of a good tank. Going from point A to point B when you have one spell that has a 30 second cooldown and no other speed boosts and not getting more than 5 stacks doesn't necessarily make you any better at tanking a boss.
That's like using PvP as a measure of a good player/DPS or claiming a feral druid tank is doing 18000 dps.
Got in a few runs at Ignis on normal on the PTR last night. Whichever designer decided that the magma pot he chucks you in should be positioned in the groinal area is a genius. "Crotch Pot" is now a permanent term for that fight. As in, "I'm being crotch potted", or "I'm in the crotch pot." Also his damage seemed a bit too high. But it was exciting poking at some new content. I think we might bail on Naxx tonight to try out the Deconstructor if it's up, too.
I was pretty upset at my lack of...skill I guess? I dunno, but I felt kind of slower on the uptake with the sparks. Of course it was my first time (teehee), and I hope my group (with 2 DK's) wasn't too harsh on my skillziz.
I forgot about the token hunters.
Hunters and melee is hilarious times with neither side content unless you position perfectly.
Specifically our two huntards...
one of which does 1200 dps in naxx 51% of damage coming from autoshot o_O
the other of which does decent dps (#3 in boss fights) but tends to steal aggro from our tank and not use aggro wiping abilities. we can't figure out what he is doing to generate so much threat. all i know is he is survival spec'd.
Both of them do stupid stuff, spores on lolthieb, sparks on maly. Running into stationary gargoyles in plague wing etc.
My old guild was having that problem, the solution was that one day during Naxx 25, we got Spore Loser on threat of /gkick if we killed a spore. At all. Three weeks in a row. No gkicks, but DKP penalties and a few regulars found themselves downgraded to backup, but eventually it got sorted out.
Loatheb makes a nice place for people to practice not killing things until told to, because there's no risk of buffing the boss, and no real consequences if somebody breaks one in a bad place. Need excellent healers to make it through the achievement, but it is one a lot of guilds don't do since it's not on the meta.
The only time I've seen different is an enhance shammy who started at like 900 dps in naxx. We talked to him and told him a few websites he could use to get better talent builds/battle strategies. Now he's consistently in our top 3 dps.
The lotheb idea is good though, I may have to try that out.