The real question is why that's such a problem for you.
Don't know really. Throwing mass-produced giant robots into the same universe as 'magical' (or whatever) giant robots makes me go "wait, what? How does that make sense?".
Regardless, I can accept that when SRW throws together giant robots from lots of different sources into one game consistency goes out the window. And, OK, the OG-'verse is pretty much derived from those beginnings, but is it really too much to ask for some reasonable explanation as to how all of this stuff makes sense within the rules of its own universe (which, at the moment, is more focused on 'science' and technology rather than magic)?
The real question is why that's such a problem for you.
Don't know really. Throwing mass-produced giant robots into the same universe as 'magical' (or whatever) giant robots makes me go "wait, what? How does that make sense?".
I guess I just can't wrap my head around the concept of the two of them existing at the same time without a clear explanation that goes further than "they just do".
this has always been the basis though of SRW
OGs makes things even simpler by just having it's own continuity to worry about, instead of the many vast and contradicting continuities of the crossover games.
The real question is why that's such a problem for you.
Don't know really. Throwing mass-produced giant robots into the same universe as 'magical' (or whatever) giant robots makes me go "wait, what? How does that make sense?".
Regardless, I can accept that when SRW throws together giant robots from lots of different sources into one game consistency goes out the window. And, OK, the OG-'verse is pretty much derived from those beginnings, but is it really too much to ask for some reasonable explanation as to how all of this stuff makes sense within the rules of its own universe (which, at the moment, is more focused on 'science' and technology rather than magic)?
Do you not recognize that Voltron is magic either? And what the fuck are the Einsts and Koryuh/Ryukyuh if not magic? Also the dominant theme isn't "technology and science conquer evil!", it's "human spirit and the will to fight for what you believe in conquers evil!". That's pretty much fairy-tales.
Edit: Seriously, what do you have against magic? The SRW: OG storyline is a fairytale, fairytales have magic and swordfights and heros and villains and good triumphs over evil because good people are willing to fight and "justice" is on their side, whatever the fuck that even is (definitely not science, nor science-fiction, I'll tell you that much).
Edit 2: And even assuming there are some sort of universal entities/forces (as forces are entities) of "good" and "evil" to even term people or their allegiances and actions by. That's a pretty big stretch in and of itself!
Edit 3: Just so you know what you've gotten yourself into, this has basically become a religious-discussion at this point. We're discussing matters of faith. If you're willing to have faith in irrational explanations like the ancient Chinese building a giant-robot with god-like power even in comparisson to the latest, highest-tech models of three thousand years of science later (which, incidentally, it can fuse itself with into a seamless, single entity, but only if the people on board are fucking telekinetics), it becomes absurd to dismiss the idea of magic out of hand.
Do you not recognize that Voltron is magic either? And what the fuck are the Einsts and Koryuh/Ryukyuh if not magic? Also the dominant theme isn't "technology and science conquer evil!", it's "human spirit and the will to fight for what you believe in conquers evil!". That's pretty much fairy-tales.
I do not recognise Voltron at all. I only know that Voltron comes from some show and is, therefore, not Original Generation. If that show is about magic robots, then OK, fine, that show is about magic robots.
The Einsts? Don't know yet. Haven't finished OG2. At the moment, they look like whacked-out space aliens.
And, also, the human spirit and whatnot conquers evil using Gespensts, Lions, R-series, Grungusts and Wild-series giant robots - all of which have blueprints and manufacturing plants somewhere. And then there are these few exceptions like Koryuh/Ryukyuh that show up seemingly out of nowhere and everyone just goes with it. Which I apparently don't get simply because I'm not versed in the conventions of giant robot anime as a whole.
Edit: Seriously, what do you have against magic? The SRW: OG storyline is a fairytale, fairytales have magic and swordfights and heros and villains and good triumphs over evil because good people are willing to fight and "justice" is on their side, whatever the fuck that even is (definitely not science, nor science-fiction, I'll tell you that much).
Nothing. I just don't think it's been injected into the OG-'verse with sufficient explanation.
Also, fairy-tales are so not defined by good triumphing over evil.
As for justice, that's a matter of ethics and morality and whatnot. A very human thing. Not magical or mystical at all. And, it must be said, a very good subject to explore in science fiction.
Edit 2: And even assuming there are some sort of universal entities/forces (as forces are entities) of "good" and "evil" to even term people or their allegiances and actions by. That's a pretty big stretch in and of itself!
And this justifies mystical giant robots existing in a universe that isn't otherwise mystical how?
Do you not recognize that Voltron is magic either? And what the fuck are the Einsts and Koryuh/Ryukyuh if not magic? Also the dominant theme isn't "technology and science conquer evil!", it's "human spirit and the will to fight for what you believe in conquers evil!". That's pretty much fairy-tales.
I do not recognise Voltron at all. I only know that Voltron comes from some show and is, therefore, not Original Generation. If that show is about magic robots, then OK, fine, that show is about magic robots.
The Einsts? Don't know yet. Haven't finished OG2. At the moment, they look like whacked-out space aliens.
And, also, the human spirit and whatnot conquers evil using Gespensts, Lions, R-series, Grungusts and Wild-series giant robots - all of which have blueprints and manufacturing plants somewhere. And then there are these few exceptions like Koryuh/Ryukyuh that show up seemingly out of nowhere and everyone just goes with it. Which I apparently don't get simply because I'm not versed in the conventions of giant robot anime as a whole.
More the conventions of metaphysics in relation to storytelling, really.
Edit 2: And even assuming there are some sort of universal entities/forces (as forces are entities) of "good" and "evil" to even term people or their allegiances and actions by. That's a pretty big stretch in and of itself!
And this justifies mystical giant robots existing in a universe that isn't otherwise mystical how?
Wait, explain to me how "good" and "evil" aren't mystical. Because that's ridiculous.
Are you one of the people who actually likesmidi-chlorians?
More the conventions of metaphysics in relation to storytelling, really.
What's your point here?
Metaphysics, according to Wikipedia, is about the nature of reality. Are you refering to the nature of storytelling or the nature of the reality in those stories?
To which I can only reply that, basically, stories have rules. The worlds they describe have boundaries and limitations, of a sort. Sometimes... well, often, those boundaries aren't particularly constricting.
But OG establishes pretty early on that the giant robots were designed and constructed by humans (and probably by robots working in factories). So they lay down that particular rule and then violate it without giving sufficient explanation. Suddenly the entire universe works differently from how they said it worked and no explanation is given other than it just does. These giant robots were not designed and constructed. Instead they came to be... how?
EDIT: Nadescio is not Original Generation. It explains nothing.
EDIT 2:
Wait, explain to me how "good" and "evil" aren't mystical. Because that's ridiculous.
Are you one of the people who actually likes midi-chlorians?
Mystical, by my definition, means "supernatural", something that has little to nothing to do with our physical reality. Perhaps you have a different definition.
'Good' and 'evil' are not supernatural. They are philosophical and, thus, human.
And, no, I don't like midi-chlorians because the first Star Wars movie established pretty early on that it was basically supernatural in nature. Midi-chlorians then went and violated that particular rule of the SW-'verse without really explaining anything the why or how.
But OG establishes pretty early on that the giant robots were designed and constructed by humans (and probably by robots working in factories). So they lay down that particular rule and then violate it without giving sufficient explanation. Suddenly the entire universe works differently from how they said it worked and no explanation is given other than it just does. These giant robots were not designed and constructed. Instead they came to be... how?
Actually they only established that their giant-robots were constructed by humans. Cybuster was never implied to be, and was pretty universally understood not to be by all characters in the OG universe. Particularly to Shu and Masaki, who come from a fucking magical-kingdom. Cybuster was universally understood to be magic and literally the elemental Lord of the Wind by all characters that have encountered it in games prior to the OG series' creation. The rules they set down to begin with are totally accepting of magic.
Edit: Or it could just be that Shu and Masaki were best friends until they had a bad-trip together on LSD and now they just think they're from a magical kingdom. Also the LSD gave cats the ability to talk, somehow non-magically but not scientifically explainable but we'll pretend it's science anyway.
Edit 2: And everyone else just goes along with it out of pity.
Mystical, by my definition, means "supernatural", something that has little to nothing to do with our physical reality. Perhaps you have a different definition.
Good and evil have nothing at all to do with our physical reality. They're abstract concepts. They're not real entities.
And, no, I don't like midi-chlorians because the first Star Wars movie established pretty early on that it was basically supernatural in nature. Midi-chlorians then went and violated that particular rule of the SW-'verse without really explaining anything the why or how.
HISTORY OF RYUKOOH AND KORYUOH IN THE ALPHA SERIES AND SOME OF OG
The Choukijin are ancient robots of unknown origin that are based on the four Chinese gods. These gods are based on various animals - the dragon, tiger, phoenix, and turtle. In Super Robot Wars Alpha, Dr. Hell uses the RyuOhKi (Dragon Lord Machine) and the KoOhKi (Tiger Lord Machine), which were found in ancient Chinese ruins, to attack the Londo Bell. These gods have their own artificial intelligence and soul in them, however, their full potential cannot be brought out on their own. They were probably built long ago to protect cities and people. After the RyoOhKi and KoOhKi are broken free from Dr. Hell's control, thanks to the T-Link System of the Grungust Type-2, they allow the main characters (officially, Kusuha Mizuha and Brooklyn 'Bullet' Luckfield to perform a spectacular combination to become the RyuKoOh, where the the RyuOhKi transforms over the KoOhKi and can transform into the KoRyuOh when the KoOhKi combines over the RyuOhKi. The parts of the Grungust Type-2, which Kusuha and Bullet were originally meant to receive before it was destroyed by Big Fire, are integrated into the RyuKoOh.
In Original Generation 2, Kusuha and Bullet are piloting the Grungust Type-3. The RyuOhKi and the KoOhKi were excavated by a leading authority on ancient technology, Dr. Eri Anzai, in the Chinese Shiyuuzuka mountainous region. They select Kusuha and Bullet as their pilots and absorb the Grungust Type-3.
The history of the RyuKoOh/KoRyuOh has been one of many layers. At some point, they were buried and then unearthed by the ancient Chinese statesmen/craftsmen/philosophers, Mo-Zhi and Gongsu Ban. They improved on the designs to give them the form they have today. It seems some of La Gias alchemy went into this, since Mo-Zhi and Gongsu Ban came into contact with those people. However, this was contradicted by the events of Alpha 2, and seems to be mere misspeculation by Dr. Anzai.
The RyuKoOh has tremendous amounts of power. If anyone merely pilots it, their life force will slowly be drained from them. This is why a Psychodriver must pilot it. After Kusuha and Bullet use this machine, they become linked to it so only they can be the pilots. The RyuKuOh's main power source is the perpetual motion system, which contains the five elements. The absorbing of the Grungust Type-2 into its being allowed the absorption of the T-Link System, its parts to repair the Choukijin. In Original Generation 2, the absorbing of the Grungust Type-3 allows the RyuKoOh's parts to be repaired, the absorption of the T-Link System, the Booster Knuckle to become the Tiger Knuckle, and the drills to become the Variable Drill. The RyuKoOh runs on sacramental water, which is water mixed with the ashes of burned talismans.
The RyuKoOh and the KoRyuOh's combat effectiveness vary. The RyuKuOh can fly and has many more ranged attacks, however, the RyuOh Hazanken, the RyuKoOh's sword, is still its most powerful weapon. The KoRyuOh excels strictly at up-close melee combat and cannot fly but is a very fast runner. For convenience, both of these machines have been assigned codenumbers - SRG-03D RyuKoOh and SRG-03T KoRyuOh.
After the end of the war with the Aerogators from Balmar, the Earth Federation declares the Choukijin to be Class A super machines that must be dismantled. Bullet, however, manages to save them. However, in Alpha 2, the RyuOhKi returns to Kusuha while Bullet is being mind-controlled in the KoOhKi. Though the KoOhKi and Bullet are driven off, the RyuOhKi is gravely wounded. At G-Island City, it is repaired using Grungust Type-2 mass production version parts and becomes the RyuJinKi. When the mind-control is broken, Kusuha and Bullet perform the combination once again. After the final battle with the Nashim Ganeden, the RyuKoOh/KoRyuOh leave its pilots behind, so that it can sacrifice itself against their foe. It seems the Choukijin are gone, but Kusuha is sure they are alive.
In Alpha 3, the robots, GouRyu Kai and RaiKou Kai, which are developed off of data on the Grungusts, while having designs somewhat based on the Choukijin, were used for Kusuha and Bullet to use. Later on, it is revealed that certain Choukijin that Kusuha and Bullet used are of the Shishin series, while Son Ganlong's far superior Shin RyuOhKi (the real name actually being Shirei RyuOhKi) is from the superior Shirei series. When all four Choukijin of the Shishin series (RyuOhKi, KoOhKi, ZakuOhKi, and BoOhKi) absorb the GouRyu Kai and RaiKou Kai, they unlock the true power of the Choukijin in the form of Shin RyuKoOh and Shin KoRyuOh.
But OG establishes pretty early on that the giant robots were designed and constructed by humans (and probably by robots working in factories). So they lay down that particular rule and then violate it without giving sufficient explanation. Suddenly the entire universe works differently from how they said it worked and no explanation is given other than it just does. These giant robots were not designed and constructed. Instead they came to be... how?
Actually they only established that their giant-robots were constructed by humans. Cybuster was never implied to be, and was pretty universally understood not to be by all characters in the OG universe. Particularly to Shu and Masaki, who come from a fucking magical-kingdom. Cybuster was universally understood to be magic and literally the elemental Lord of the Wind by all characters that have encountered it in games prior to the OG series' creation. The rules they set down to begin with are totally accepting of magic.
OK, that explains Cybuster. Masaki and Shu are not from (that part of) Earth everybody else comes from, where the rules work differently.
Bit silly, but it's an explanation. If it gets explored further in OG3 or whatever, I might even drop the 'silly' part.
If it's somehow proven that the giant robot from ancient China that started the whole thing is also from there, all the better.
Now then...
Good and evil have nothing at all to do with our physical reality. They're abstract concepts. They're not real entities.
Absolutely true.
However, this doesn't make them mystical. A lot of math consists of abstract concept that are not real entities, but that doesn't make math mystical either. They are not supernatural forces guiding events in the real world. At best, these concepts affect how people view the world.
But in any case, I think we're looking at SRT: OG differently. It seems to me that you look at Kyosuke and co. and say that they win because they are the good guys and that's how the story goes. I take a look at Kyosuke and co. and think that they win because they have the better pilots, better tactics, possibly even better giant robots and because their opponents make a lot of stupid mistakes. Within the story itself, the 'goodness' of Kyosuke or the 'evilness' of his opponents doesn't mean a damn thing. Though their concepts of good and evil do, as it drives their actions and determination.
They are the subject of metaphysical and ethical discourse, that does not make them real any more than it makes Jesus real.
Yeah, that's what I said.
However, in SRT: OG, good and evil are just as not real as it is over here. You cannot point at anything in the game and say, "Yep that's the physical manifestation of Good doing its work" or "There's Evil blowing up that giant robot".
However, unlike in our world, 'Jesus' is real (and by 'Jesus' I mean 'magical giant robot from ancient China'). Explanations of how this is possible have not been forthcoming, nor has it showing the characters realising that their entire universe doesn't work the way they thought it did.
HISTORY OF RYUKOOH AND KORYUOH IN THE ALPHA SERIES AND SOME OF OG
So, if I understand correctly, they are partly mystical ('souls') and partly built by guys in ancient China.
So either, in this universe, ancient China was really advanced, or this is just really kind of silly.
For you to fail to accept that Cybuster is in fact magic tells me that you're not reading the dialogue. They explain quite clearly particularly in OG2 that Cybuster isn't a mech built by men, but rather its own being (a creature of legend, even) who chooses its pilot.
Well, Cybuster was built by humans, specifically Wendy of the LaGran kingdom of La Gias, it's just that the civilization of La Gias has combined technology and magic to a high degree(a common anime trope), hence Cybuster's magical attributes and blessing from the Wind Spirit Cyfis.
Like I said, think of it like Kotetsu Jeeg, they took old mystical artifacts, and combined it with technology to fight evil golems. Kotetsu Jeeg shows that mixing mysticism with tech works.
Or there have been some Fantasy settings where things like "Techmages" exist *COUGH*Iron Kingdoms*COUGH*
Then again, if you want realism, maybe Front Mission or Battletech is for you
you know, I've been wondering, does anyone have a clue where the OG series is heading next? I mean, GBA's likely out, so I'd figure it'd be DS or PS2 given how the PS2 is still selling and got OGs+OGGaiden.
So either, in this universe, ancient China was really advanced, or this is just really kind of silly.
I'm going with silly for now.
Giant Robots fighting each other.
Of course it's silly.
Yeah, I know. But at least it's consistently silly. :P
EDIT: And, just so we're clear: I don't mind silly. I like silly. My ginormous nitpicking is only an indication of how much I like this game. Which is a lot.
And Katina rocks in pretty much anything you put her in.
you know, I've been wondering, does anyone have a clue where the OG series is heading next? I mean, GBA's likely out, so I'd figure it'd be DS or PS2 given how the PS2 is still selling and got OGs+OGGaiden.
I'm guessing it'll be the DS, what with its huge success in Japan and all. Plus, they've already dipped their toe in that water with W, so it's a natural direction to go. I hope when OG3 comes out, they start introducing the Alpha 3 characters, like Cobray and Selena.
So either, in this universe, ancient China was really advanced, or this is just really kind of silly.
I'm going with silly for now.
Giant Robots fighting each other.
Of course it's silly.
Yeah, I know. But at least it's consistently silly. :P
EDIT: And, just so we're clear: I don't mind silly. I like silly. My ginormous nitpicking is only an indication of how much I like this game. Which is a lot.
And Katina rocks in pretty much anything you put her in.
That reminds me, I wonder how long it will be until Banpresto uses KotetsuShin Jeeg in a game? I'd love to see some combo attack with Shin Getter and Mazinkaizer. and Possibly even a Triple attack.
Like for double I could see Fire Blaster+Spin Storm, Getter 3's Judo Throw+ DYNAMAITU KICKU!, Getter 2's Drill Charge+Oppai- I mean Mach Drill, Stoner Sunshine+Giga Shooter.
Mystical, by my definition, means "supernatural", something that has little to nothing to do with our physical reality. Perhaps you have a different definition.
Wait, I'm missing something. I thought that the four mechanical gods were servants of the Ganeden on Earth? And that they rebelled?
Plus there is quite alot fo mysticism in the whole Lord of the Elemenetals storyline. Four superpowered mecha were created with magical and scientific techniques, to combat the return of a God of darkness who is worshipped by a cult. (of course, all they end up doing is fighting a silly civil war while someone else does there job, but....)
Also, outside of this discussion, I need to know something.
Does the Alpha series ever give any reason why Elzam is dressed up as Ratsel? Sure in OG he's a criminal in hiding, but what about Alpha?
Mystical, by my definition, means "supernatural", something that has little to nothing to do with our physical reality. Perhaps you have a different definition.
You warrant no further attention.
Yes. Clearly good and evil are on the same level as souls and magic.
Except that good and evil are not supernatural, but the subject of philoshophy, ethics, morality, that kind of thing, and that they are not believed to 'exist' the way people believe souls exist and that they don't exert any kind of force in the natural world.
The fact that I poorly phrased 'mystical' does not mean I believe your argument is valid. Unless you will tell me that mathematics is mystical as well (seriously, show me '2').
Also, OG isn't seperate from the other universes. Masaki knows Char personally.
wait, they actually reference Char in one of the OG games?
They are separate. For every universe there's a version of every (involved) character, the exception being Gilliam.
This is correct. The Masaki of the OGverse =/= the Masaki of the Alphaverse, the Sanger of the OGverse =/= the Sanger of the Alphaverse, and so forth.
Edit: Oh, and the reason Gilliam is same Gilliam in every universe is due to him being a dimensional traveler, or "Time Diver", as the SRW terminology goes. You know, kinda like the cast of Sliders, from back in the day.
Mystical, by my definition, means "supernatural", something that has little to nothing to do with our physical reality. Perhaps you have a different definition.
You warrant no further attention.
Yes. Clearly good and evil are on the same level as souls and magic.
Except that good and evil are not supernatural, but the subject of philoshophy, ethics, morality, that kind of thing, and that they are not believed to 'exist' the way people believe souls exist and that they don't exert any kind of force in the natural world.
The fact that I poorly phrased 'mystical' does not mean I believe your argument is valid. Unless you will tell me that mathematics is mystical as well (seriously, show me '2').
Perhaps you should take this spat to PMs? It's rather disturbing the flow of the thread.
Does the Alpha series ever give any reason why Elzam is dressed up as Ratsel? Sure in OG he's a criminal in hiding, but what about Alpha?
I think it just started out as a joking reference to Char's be-sunglassed "secret identity" as Quatro Bajina from Zeta Gundam, and then they just kept it in OG2. It makes sense, given how Elzam loves to personalize his mechs with custom paintjobs, much as Char does.
Does the Alpha series ever give any reason why Elzam is dressed up as Ratsel? Sure in OG he's a criminal in hiding, but what about Alpha?
I think it just started out as a joking reference to Char's be-sunglassed "secret identity" as Quatro Bajina from Zeta Gundam, and then they just kept it in OG2. It makes sense, given how Elzam loves to personalize his mechs with custom paintjobs, much as Char does.
not to mention though that he tends to cancel it out by shouting TROMBE! all the time
Posts
Regardless, I can accept that when SRW throws together giant robots from lots of different sources into one game consistency goes out the window. And, OK, the OG-'verse is pretty much derived from those beginnings, but is it really too much to ask for some reasonable explanation as to how all of this stuff makes sense within the rules of its own universe (which, at the moment, is more focused on 'science' and technology rather than magic)?
this has always been the basis though of SRW
OGs makes things even simpler by just having it's own continuity to worry about, instead of the many vast and contradicting continuities of the crossover games.
Do you not recognize that Voltron is magic either? And what the fuck are the Einsts and Koryuh/Ryukyuh if not magic? Also the dominant theme isn't "technology and science conquer evil!", it's "human spirit and the will to fight for what you believe in conquers evil!". That's pretty much fairy-tales.
Edit: Seriously, what do you have against magic? The SRW: OG storyline is a fairytale, fairytales have magic and swordfights and heros and villains and good triumphs over evil because good people are willing to fight and "justice" is on their side, whatever the fuck that even is (definitely not science, nor science-fiction, I'll tell you that much).
Edit 2: And even assuming there are some sort of universal entities/forces (as forces are entities) of "good" and "evil" to even term people or their allegiances and actions by. That's a pretty big stretch in and of itself!
Edit 3: Just so you know what you've gotten yourself into, this has basically become a religious-discussion at this point. We're discussing matters of faith. If you're willing to have faith in irrational explanations like the ancient Chinese building a giant-robot with god-like power even in comparisson to the latest, highest-tech models of three thousand years of science later (which, incidentally, it can fuse itself with into a seamless, single entity, but only if the people on board are fucking telekinetics), it becomes absurd to dismiss the idea of magic out of hand.
The Einsts? Don't know yet. Haven't finished OG2. At the moment, they look like whacked-out space aliens.
And, also, the human spirit and whatnot conquers evil using Gespensts, Lions, R-series, Grungusts and Wild-series giant robots - all of which have blueprints and manufacturing plants somewhere. And then there are these few exceptions like Koryuh/Ryukyuh that show up seemingly out of nowhere and everyone just goes with it. Which I apparently don't get simply because I'm not versed in the conventions of giant robot anime as a whole.
Nothing. I just don't think it's been injected into the OG-'verse with sufficient explanation.
Also, fairy-tales are so not defined by good triumphing over evil.
As for justice, that's a matter of ethics and morality and whatnot. A very human thing. Not magical or mystical at all. And, it must be said, a very good subject to explore in science fiction.
And this justifies mystical giant robots existing in a universe that isn't otherwise mystical how?
More the conventions of metaphysics in relation to storytelling, really.
Edit: Random thought.
Edit 2:
Wait, explain to me how "good" and "evil" aren't mystical. Because that's ridiculous.
Are you one of the people who actually likes midi-chlorians?
Metaphysics, according to Wikipedia, is about the nature of reality. Are you refering to the nature of storytelling or the nature of the reality in those stories?
To which I can only reply that, basically, stories have rules. The worlds they describe have boundaries and limitations, of a sort. Sometimes... well, often, those boundaries aren't particularly constricting.
But OG establishes pretty early on that the giant robots were designed and constructed by humans (and probably by robots working in factories). So they lay down that particular rule and then violate it without giving sufficient explanation. Suddenly the entire universe works differently from how they said it worked and no explanation is given other than it just does. These giant robots were not designed and constructed. Instead they came to be... how?
EDIT: Nadescio is not Original Generation. It explains nothing.
EDIT 2: Mystical, by my definition, means "supernatural", something that has little to nothing to do with our physical reality. Perhaps you have a different definition.
'Good' and 'evil' are not supernatural. They are philosophical and, thus, human.
And, no, I don't like midi-chlorians because the first Star Wars movie established pretty early on that it was basically supernatural in nature. Midi-chlorians then went and violated that particular rule of the SW-'verse without really explaining anything the why or how.
Actually they only established that their giant-robots were constructed by humans. Cybuster was never implied to be, and was pretty universally understood not to be by all characters in the OG universe. Particularly to Shu and Masaki, who come from a fucking magical-kingdom. Cybuster was universally understood to be magic and literally the elemental Lord of the Wind by all characters that have encountered it in games prior to the OG series' creation. The rules they set down to begin with are totally accepting of magic.
Edit: Or it could just be that Shu and Masaki were best friends until they had a bad-trip together on LSD and now they just think they're from a magical kingdom. Also the LSD gave cats the ability to talk, somehow non-magically but not scientifically explainable but we'll pretend it's science anyway.
Edit 2: And everyone else just goes along with it out of pity.
Good and evil have nothing at all to do with our physical reality. They're abstract concepts. They're not real entities.
They are the subject of metaphysical and ethical discourse, that does not make them real any more than it makes Jesus real.
So like Cybuster.
Bit silly, but it's an explanation. If it gets explored further in OG3 or whatever, I might even drop the 'silly' part.
If it's somehow proven that the giant robot from ancient China that started the whole thing is also from there, all the better.
Now then...
Absolutely true.
However, this doesn't make them mystical. A lot of math consists of abstract concept that are not real entities, but that doesn't make math mystical either. They are not supernatural forces guiding events in the real world. At best, these concepts affect how people view the world.
But in any case, I think we're looking at SRT: OG differently. It seems to me that you look at Kyosuke and co. and say that they win because they are the good guys and that's how the story goes. I take a look at Kyosuke and co. and think that they win because they have the better pilots, better tactics, possibly even better giant robots and because their opponents make a lot of stupid mistakes. Within the story itself, the 'goodness' of Kyosuke or the 'evilness' of his opponents doesn't mean a damn thing. Though their concepts of good and evil do, as it drives their actions and determination.
Yeah, that's what I said.
However, in SRT: OG, good and evil are just as not real as it is over here. You cannot point at anything in the game and say, "Yep that's the physical manifestation of Good doing its work" or "There's Evil blowing up that giant robot".
However, unlike in our world, 'Jesus' is real (and by 'Jesus' I mean 'magical giant robot from ancient China'). Explanations of how this is possible have not been forthcoming, nor has it showing the characters realising that their entire universe doesn't work the way they thought it did.
So, if I understand correctly, they are partly mystical ('souls') and partly built by guys in ancient China.
So either, in this universe, ancient China was really advanced, or this is just really kind of silly.
I'm going with silly for now.
Well, Cybuster was built by humans, specifically Wendy of the LaGran kingdom of La Gias, it's just that the civilization of La Gias has combined technology and magic to a high degree(a common anime trope), hence Cybuster's magical attributes and blessing from the Wind Spirit Cyfis.
does the series have to be outright fantasy to have them? Why can't there be a meeting of the Mundane and the Fantastic in the series?
and again, really, magical robots are nothing new. I again point to the fact that in Japan, the Megazord/DaiZyuJin was God
Giant Robots fighting each other.
Of course it's silly.
Or there have been some Fantasy settings where things like "Techmages" exist *COUGH*Iron Kingdoms*COUGH*
Then again, if you want realism, maybe Front Mission or Battletech is for you
EDIT: And, just so we're clear: I don't mind silly. I like silly. My ginormous nitpicking is only an indication of how much I like this game. Which is a lot.
And Katina rocks in pretty much anything you put her in.
Except maybe Grungusts. I don't get Grungusts.
I'm guessing it'll be the DS, what with its huge success in Japan and all. Plus, they've already dipped their toe in that water with W, so it's a natural direction to go. I hope when OG3 comes out, they start introducing the Alpha 3 characters, like Cobray and Selena.
I've now got Russel in the Type 2 :V
Like for double I could see Fire Blaster+Spin Storm, Getter 3's Judo Throw+ DYNAMAITU KICKU!, Getter 2's Drill Charge+Oppai- I mean Mach Drill, Stoner Sunshine+Giga Shooter.
What's not to get?
They're Super Robots.
With fists and swords of death.
...hmm... Katina in a Gungrust...
Well, they come from SRW-R, first of all.
I mean the new one, Jeeg's answer to Shin Getter and Mazinkaizer. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kotetsushin_Jeeg
That so?
You warrant no further attention.
Plus there is quite alot fo mysticism in the whole Lord of the Elemenetals storyline. Four superpowered mecha were created with magical and scientific techniques, to combat the return of a God of darkness who is worshipped by a cult. (of course, all they end up doing is fighting a silly civil war while someone else does there job, but....)
Also, outside of this discussion, I need to know something.
Does the Alpha series ever give any reason why Elzam is dressed up as Ratsel? Sure in OG he's a criminal in hiding, but what about Alpha?
ah, hadn't played R :P D had similar design aesthetics from what I noticed (and was also the first of the games that I played).
Still, curious as to why they're in the OG book
wait, they actually reference Char in one of the OG games?
They are separate. For every universe there's a version of every (involved) character, the exception being Gilliam.
On a side note for those who played Alpha 3. I never figured it out. How the hell do you use Jeeg's horse legs?
Except that good and evil are not supernatural, but the subject of philoshophy, ethics, morality, that kind of thing, and that they are not believed to 'exist' the way people believe souls exist and that they don't exert any kind of force in the natural world.
The fact that I poorly phrased 'mystical' does not mean I believe your argument is valid. Unless you will tell me that mathematics is mystical as well (seriously, show me '2').
This is correct. The Masaki of the OGverse =/= the Masaki of the Alphaverse, the Sanger of the OGverse =/= the Sanger of the Alphaverse, and so forth.
Edit: Oh, and the reason Gilliam is same Gilliam in every universe is due to him being a dimensional traveler, or "Time Diver", as the SRW terminology goes. You know, kinda like the cast of Sliders, from back in the day.
Perhaps you should take this spat to PMs? It's rather disturbing the flow of the thread.
I think it just started out as a joking reference to Char's be-sunglassed "secret identity" as Quatro Bajina from Zeta Gundam, and then they just kept it in OG2. It makes sense, given how Elzam loves to personalize his mechs with custom paintjobs, much as Char does.
not to mention though that he tends to cancel it out by shouting TROMBE! all the time
In OG2, when Masaki nick-names Sleigh "Comet" to go along with Ibis' "Shooting-Star".