I can't help but think of Die Hard 4/Indiana Jones 4 when I think of Max Payne 3. It's the same basic scenario; old beloved series gets shiny new sequel, some people love it, some people hate it.
I don't think I can come to a conclusion yet simply because I don't have enough to go on. My initial impressions though, are unfortunately negative.
While I am rather pissed that they didn't get James McCaffrey back to play Max, I think that's not too big a factor, if there's one thing I trust Rockstar on, it's casting. The only problem I can forsee, is that they've written themselves into a corner already. I mean, what the fuck is he doing in Brazil? What possible thing could be down there that could "redeem" him?
And even assuming that they've done a miracle and actually come up with some interesting answers to those questions, how do they deal with the sheer amount of closure at the end of the second game? Max's story was firmly closed, he had dealt with the death of his family, and had found, if not peace, at least rest. I honestly can't see any way they can open this third chapter with anything other than "Actually guys, I really wasn't alright after all that. Sorry for misleading you."
Aside from the awkward opening, there's also going to be an awkward ending to the third game. How could they possibly end it? He's too old to have a new love interest, and Mona is NOT going to show up back from the dead a third time. He's got no family, no friends. I think the only way they could do it would be to kill him off heroically at the end. But even then, what would he die for? He can't sacrifice himself for anyone, cause he's got no-one.
I just can't, for the life of me, see what this story could possibly be about. MAX'S STORY IS OVER. There are no loose ends, no remaining characters from the earlier games, there's nothing that this third story could possibly be about that wouldn't feel incredibly tacked on and unnecessary. It's done.
I genuinely feel bad for Max. Guy went through hell in the first two games and apparently his life was even worse for the next 12 years. And I'm guessing he won't be having a very good time through the course of this game. Poor guy. Thank God he doesn't exist.
Watch Man on Fire. He's going to find the daughter that was taken from him in the child of his new employers. She's going to be kidnapped, and he's going to shoot his way through the entire city to rescue her. In the end, he commits suicide to close the loop. The end.
ITT people whining who are marking this as day one just like the rest of us
Well, I dunno.
I mean, some people might be shocked at the complete departure of what we know max payne is and being replaced by something that looks entirely unrelated to max payne.
I guess.
It might be fun, I wouldn't know until I see some videos, and the writing might still be good, which again I wouldn't know until I see some videos, but for what we have at the moment it looks like something that is something else entirely with the max payne name shoehorned in and I'm just going to whine about that.
Watch Man on Fire. He's going to find the daughter that was taken from him in the child of his new employers. She's going to be kidnapped, and he's going to shoot his way through the entire city to rescue her. In the end, he commits suicide to close the loop. The end.
Huh, that would actually make sense to a degree. If that's actually the plot, I believe I'm OK with that. As long as the suicide is kind of justified, you know. Something to do with seeing his wife, or whatever.
I just can't, for the life of me, see what this story could possibly be about. MAX'S STORY IS OVER. There are no loose ends, no remaining characters from the earlier games, there's nothing that this third story could possibly be about that wouldn't feel incredibly tacked on and unnecessary. It's done.
This. So this. I can't judge this as a game yet. It could've been in New York, it could've been black-and-white, Max could look the same and I would still have problems. The game simply doesn't need to exist.
Though he's been missing in action for years, Max Payne is still very much a part of Rockstar's vision for gaming.
Make another noir game, if you want to. Does it have to be Max Payne? I don't know how relatable his agony is going to be, if the writers just keep making him go through shit again and again.
Vlad was always evil. Max just forgot about it for a while. The enemy of your enemy is not your friend, and all that.
Mona and Max needed each other. They're both broken people, Mona watched her sister get brutally beaten then murdered. They have a strange twisted kind of love, like two survivors of a catastrophe who base their relationship on their shared misery.
Vlad was always evil. Max just forgot about it for a while. The enemy of your enemy is not your friend, and all that.
Mona and Max needed each other. They're both broken people, Mona watched her sister get brutally beaten then murdered. They have a strange twisted kind of love, like two survivors of a catastrophe who base their relationship on their shared misery.
Yeah, but they didn't need to happen.
Max killed everyone who wronged him in 1. I don't think that there was anything in there that has a storyline that need to be continued. (I think? It's been awhile since I've play the game.)
I don't think that the first game showed any signs of Vlad wanting to betray you, but then again it's been awhile.
Mona in 2 just kinda turned up.
Antihippy on
PSN: Antiwhippy
0
Options
Burden of ProofYou three boys picked a beautiful hill to die on.Registered Userregular
And Vlad only worked with you because it suited his interests. Plus you know, you killed his girlfriend. And you got in the way of his power play against the 'inner circle'. And um, oh who the fuck cares MP2 was fuckawesome and I hope MP3 is very different, very new, very Payne, and equally fuckawesome.
And Vlad only worked with you because it suited his interests. Plus you know, you killed his girlfriend. And you got in the way of his power play against the 'inner circle'. And um, oh who the fuck cares MP2 was fuckawesome and I hope MP3 is very different, very new, very Payne, and equally fuckawesome.
Oh fine.
I'll agree that Max payne 2 is fuck awesome though.
I'm just going to whine till I see some videos. :P Hopefully they'll show some with the script for the game soon.
Anybody who doesn't like the new Max Payne image is dumb
What do you except from a painkiller addict down on his luck after the love of his life died
It's not so much that he looks marginally different from the Max Payne that we've grown accustomed to, it's more that the setting is just wrong, specially from a Noir standpoint.
Anybody who doesn't like the new Max Payne image is dumb
What do you except from a painkiller addict down on his luck after the love of his life died
It's not so much that he looks marginally different from the Max Payne that we've grown accustomed to, it's more that the setting is just wrong, specially from a Noir standpoint.
I'll have to check but isn't noir traditionally solemn and not, you know, an adrenaline-pumping bullet-dodging action fest?
I just hope that we'll see something before long that basically explains why this is Max Payne 3 rather than Man on Fire: The Game (and Denzel's white and old now). From what they've revealed, the game sounds like it could be great - but there's simply nothing I can see that says, "Max Payne".
Thirith on
"Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
0
Options
Zen VulgarityWhat a lovely day for teaSecret British ThreadRegistered Userregular
Anybody who doesn't like the new Max Payne image is dumb
What do you except from a painkiller addict down on his luck after the love of his life died
It's not so much that he looks marginally different from the Max Payne that we've grown accustomed to, it's more that the setting is just wrong, specially from a Noir standpoint.
I'll have to check but isn't noir traditionally solemn and not, you know, an adrenaline-pumping bullet-dodging action fest?
Well, reading up on the hardboiled/noir genre I got to this paragraph on Wikipedia, which I think is crucial for the definition of the noir (hardboiled) genre:
Film noir has sources not only in cinema but other artistic media as well. The low-key lighting schemes commonly linked with the classic mode are in the tradition of chiaroscuro and tenebrism, techniques using high contrasts of light and dark developed by 15th- and 16th-century painters associated with Mannerism and the Baroque. Film noir's aesthetics are deeply influenced by German Expressionism, a cinematic movement of the 1910s and 1920s closely related to contemporaneous developments in theater, photography, painting, sculpture, and architecture. The opportunities offered by the booming Hollywood film industry and, later, the threat of growing Nazi power led to the emigration of many important film artists working in Germany who had either been directly involved in the Expressionist movement or studied with its practitioners. Directors such as Fritz Lang, Robert Siodmak, and Michael Curtiz brought dramatic lighting techniques and a psychologically expressive approach to mise-en-scène with them to Hollywood, where they would make some of the most famous of classic noirs. Lang's magnum opus, M—released in 1931, two years before his departure from Germany—is among the first major crime films of the sound era to join a characteristically noirish visual style with a noir-type plot, one in which the protagonist is a criminal (as are his most successful pursuers).
(I've highlighted some of the key-words and sentences from the text.)
For reference, tenebrism and chiaroscuro gave birth to paintings as follows:
Yes, we know. Noir can even be about a hairdresser trying to break into dry-cleaning. That still doesn't mean that The Man Who Wasn't There would necessarily make for a good sequel to Chinatown.
Thirith on
"Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
0
Options
Zen VulgarityWhat a lovely day for teaSecret British ThreadRegistered Userregular
edited June 2009
Yes, we know, but you're basing that the game will suck without ever playing it. This is not like the developer is fucking incompetent, either.
I just hope that we'll see something before long that basically explains why this is Max Payne 3 rather than Man on Fire: The Game (and Denzel's white and old now). From what they've revealed, the game sounds like it could be great - but there's simply nothing I can see that says, "Max Payne".
Yes. Yes, I'm obviously saying that the game will suck.
O_o
Thirith on
"Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
0
Options
Zen VulgarityWhat a lovely day for teaSecret British ThreadRegistered Userregular
edited June 2009
Sounds like it will have a guy who has gone through hell performing a gun ballet and having the world crash around him due to its sin and depravity, in a city that's corrupt, violent, and filled with a criminal underbelly.
This is the sound of me raising a singular eyebrow in amusement.
umf
I'm assuming you know that's the name of Rockstar's engine, the same one behind GTA IV and Red Dead Redemption. Not so-called because of any angst on Max's part, or associated with ID at all.
It might borrow elements from film noir heavily, but it's not part of that movement.
And neo-noir can be pretty broad.
I've always seen it as noir combined with john woo, and john woo is clearly a pretty big influence on the team.
You've just admitted that to a certain extent it is part of the noir movement. Of course it's not strictly noir, but I don't know if it's fair to call it neo-noir just because it doesn't follow the same formula, wordy by word.
Anyway, I've yet to see a noir-something game set in Brazil during the day so let's see how it goes.
Man what's this? Alien 2 and its not on another ship with one alien? Bullshit this can be some other franchise but it aint alien. Terminator and Arnold is the good guy? Man that's total bullshit they should call this something different because its not the terminator I know. Another Die Hard and its not in an office building with an alan rickman like guy taunting him? Man fuck this, I know Die Hard you sir ar no die hard.
Who cares if this looks like Max McClane on Fire? The first game was a mash up of noir elements with John Woo movies. This is also the team who brought out the excellent warriors game. Slack you need to cut them some.
Preacher on
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
I like the change to Brazil. You could theoretically run rampant in the slums for a day or so before getting taken down, in America I would be constantly wondering "where are the army helicopters shooting at me" after hour three of MP3 if it were set in NYC
Posts
This is the sound of me raising a singular eyebrow in amusement.
umf
I'll just pretend the protagonist's name is Pax Mayne.
Heck, i would like it better if he looked like Indiana Jones, rather than a bald hobo.
That said, at least the game mechanics sound awesome.
Guy could never catch a break.
And now he's in brazil.
I don't think I can come to a conclusion yet simply because I don't have enough to go on. My initial impressions though, are unfortunately negative.
While I am rather pissed that they didn't get James McCaffrey back to play Max, I think that's not too big a factor, if there's one thing I trust Rockstar on, it's casting. The only problem I can forsee, is that they've written themselves into a corner already. I mean, what the fuck is he doing in Brazil? What possible thing could be down there that could "redeem" him?
And even assuming that they've done a miracle and actually come up with some interesting answers to those questions, how do they deal with the sheer amount of closure at the end of the second game? Max's story was firmly closed, he had dealt with the death of his family, and had found, if not peace, at least rest. I honestly can't see any way they can open this third chapter with anything other than "Actually guys, I really wasn't alright after all that. Sorry for misleading you."
Aside from the awkward opening, there's also going to be an awkward ending to the third game. How could they possibly end it? He's too old to have a new love interest, and Mona is NOT going to show up back from the dead a third time. He's got no family, no friends. I think the only way they could do it would be to kill him off heroically at the end. But even then, what would he die for? He can't sacrifice himself for anyone, cause he's got no-one.
I just can't, for the life of me, see what this story could possibly be about. MAX'S STORY IS OVER. There are no loose ends, no remaining characters from the earlier games, there's nothing that this third story could possibly be about that wouldn't feel incredibly tacked on and unnecessary. It's done.
Well, I dunno.
I mean, some people might be shocked at the complete departure of what we know max payne is and being replaced by something that looks entirely unrelated to max payne.
I guess.
It might be fun, I wouldn't know until I see some videos, and the writing might still be good, which again I wouldn't know until I see some videos, but for what we have at the moment it looks like something that is something else entirely with the max payne name shoehorned in and I'm just going to whine about that.
Huh, that would actually make sense to a degree. If that's actually the plot, I believe I'm OK with that. As long as the suicide is kind of justified, you know. Something to do with seeing his wife, or whatever.
This. So this. I can't judge this as a game yet. It could've been in New York, it could've been black-and-white, Max could look the same and I would still have problems. The game simply doesn't need to exist.
Make another noir game, if you want to. Does it have to be Max Payne? I don't know how relatable his agony is going to be, if the writers just keep making him go through shit again and again.
Max and Mona didn't have to hook up.
Vladimir didn't need to turn evil.
Mona and Max needed each other. They're both broken people, Mona watched her sister get brutally beaten then murdered. They have a strange twisted kind of love, like two survivors of a catastrophe who base their relationship on their shared misery.
Yeah, but they didn't need to happen.
Max killed everyone who wronged him in 1. I don't think that there was anything in there that has a storyline that need to be continued. (I think? It's been awhile since I've play the game.)
I don't think that the first game showed any signs of Vlad wanting to betray you, but then again it's been awhile.
Mona in 2 just kinda turned up.
Get out.
And Vlad only worked with you because it suited his interests. Plus you know, you killed his girlfriend. And you got in the way of his power play against the 'inner circle'. And um, oh who the fuck cares MP2 was fuckawesome and I hope MP3 is very different, very new, very Payne, and equally fuckawesome.
What do you except from a painkiller addict down on his luck after the love of his life died
Oh fine.
I'll agree that Max payne 2 is fuck awesome though.
I'm just going to whine till I see some videos. :P Hopefully they'll show some with the script for the game soon.
It's not so much that he looks marginally different from the Max Payne that we've grown accustomed to, it's more that the setting is just wrong, specially from a Noir standpoint.
I'll have to check but isn't noir traditionally solemn and not, you know, an adrenaline-pumping bullet-dodging action fest?
"Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
Fuck you that movie ruled
And noir doesn't need a specific setting to be noir and anyone who thinks it does is dumb
See?
PSN ID : DetectiveOlivaw | TWITTER | STEAM ID | NEVER FORGET
Well, reading up on the hardboiled/noir genre I got to this paragraph on Wikipedia, which I think is crucial for the definition of the noir (hardboiled) genre:
(I've highlighted some of the key-words and sentences from the text.)
For reference, tenebrism and chiaroscuro gave birth to paintings as follows:
"Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
I'm just trying to say that this does not look like a Max Payne game at all.
The discussion was brought up because people were saying that a brazilian slum during the day could be understood as Noir, when it clearly cannot.
It's fine if they want to make it that way, though, but it's not shaping up to be a worthy sequel, at least on my book.
Max payne isn't film noir. It's neo-noir.
It might borrow elements from film noir heavily, but it's not part of that movement.
And neo-noir can be pretty broad.
I've always seen it as noir combined with john woo, and john woo is clearly a pretty big influence on the team.
Yes. Yes, I'm obviously saying that the game will suck.
O_o
"Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
Except in Brazil instead of New York.
I'm assuming you know that's the name of Rockstar's engine, the same one behind GTA IV and Red Dead Redemption. Not so-called because of any angst on Max's part, or associated with ID at all.
You've just admitted that to a certain extent it is part of the noir movement. Of course it's not strictly noir, but I don't know if it's fair to call it neo-noir just because it doesn't follow the same formula, wordy by word.
Anyway, I've yet to see a noir-something game set in Brazil during the day so let's see how it goes.
Like, some of the cutscene dialogue is pretty estrange even for noir
Who cares if this looks like Max McClane on Fire? The first game was a mash up of noir elements with John Woo movies. This is also the team who brought out the excellent warriors game. Slack you need to cut them some.
pleasepaypreacher.net
Man did the first game ever win at the sleazyness though, especially when you surprise that mobster getting a BJ
Casablanca?
Not Brazil, but not exactly typical urban