No harm as my esteemed opponent's roll could have hit either of us, but might I suggest laying down the rule that IC rolls should inculde who you are attacking and with what power in the note setion?
Stops any potential abuse by rolling your dice and then afterwards seeing how best to apply them.
This seems wise.
And I apologize for my dishonorable actions. Spartacus will commit seppuku once this tournament is over.
No harm as my esteemed opponent's roll could have hit either of us, but might I suggest laying down the rule that IC rolls should inculde who you are attacking and with what power in the note setion?
Stops any potential abuse by rolling your dice and then afterwards seeing how best to apply them.
I would suggest you finish composing your post before submitting
Ok. I wasn't sure if I should pause between actions to allow interrupts and such to take place. I had thought your bard was a Halfling for some reason, so I kept expecting Second Chance. (Plus, a couple of times I accidentally hit submit instead of preview.)
Fuck. -15 HP. Dead in one. Not even a death save. Oh well Cheddar, it was fun rolling initiative with you that one time...
Loser's bracket or straight elimination?
And he can still AP and charge my team mate! I strongly suggest no AP for season 2 but I suppose they can't really be pulled out now seeing as they have already been used in the first fight.
Fuck. -15 HP. Dead in one. Not even a death save. Oh well Cheddar, it was fun rolling initiative with you that one time...
Loser's bracket or straight elimination?
And he can still AP and charge my team mate! I strongly suggest no AP for season 2 but I suppose they can't really be pulled out now seeing as they have already been used in the first fight.
No losers bracket for season 1.
It will be more likely for season 2 however. Which with the speed of things will be starting off late next week or so.
A. Sneak attack does not work with a mace.
B. Press the Advantage only works if you BLOODY the opponent. Considering that the attack was made with a mace, sneak attack does not apply, and you can not use this.
Sorry guys.
streever on
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FiggyFighter of the night manChampion of the sunRegistered Userregular
edited May 2009
Correct on both accounts. Please correct your post as such.
Afraid not. Ruthless ruffian class feature allows mace sneak attacks.
Running Gork through the character builder, whilst I found he undersold himself on the hit bonuses, he also seems to have overdone the second damage roll by 2 points! Adding 3 damge for a versatile weapon when it only adds 1 as far as I can see. Which puts me at -13, which is just not quite dead!
Ruthless Ruffian: You are proficient with the club and the mace, and you can use those weapons with Sneak Attack or any rogue power that normally requires a light blade. If you use a club or a mace to deliver an attack that has the rattling keyword, add your Strength modifier to the damage roll.
I have corrected my error. I'd thought it was +1 per [W].
Starting distance is shaping up to be incredibly important, particularly due to the Rogue's First Strike trait. If two Rogues face off, it might all be decided by the initiative order.
You should totally like triple people's HP values for this thing. Would actually give it some potential to last a couple rounds.
Personally, I'd up the level to 4, (more HP's, and damage doesn't really go up) increase the starting distance, and run the whole tournament with only short rests in between fights. That way, everyone gets one daily per tournament, one action point every other fight, and might have to conserve healing surges. A glass cannon striker with 5 healing surges over 4 fights might not be a no-brainer choice that way. Seems like it would be more fun that way to me, at least.
And, uh...yes, I'm new. Just try not to hit me in the face too often. I can hide the body blows at least. 8-)
I would say decrease the distance, since there is no way a melee opponent can hit a ranged person on the first turn. Either that or make it so ranged attacks don't have a clear shot in the first turn. More barricades and more HP for the next season seems the way to go.
It's definatly working out as a OTKO (one turn knockout) show
Is anyone genuinely surprised by this? Relatively basic knowledge of 4E would make it plainly obvious that low level PvP was going to end up like this.
Hell even Paragon tier PvP can and does end up one shotting people with a competently built Striker.
Is anyone genuinely surprised by this? Relatively basic knowledge of 4E would make it plainly obvious that low level PvP was going to end up like this.
Hell even Paragon tier PvP can and does end up one shotting people with a competently built Striker.
Level choice is pretty key. Everyone gets a big boost at level 1, and level 11. On the other hand, if you keep to mid to high heroic, everyone has more HP's without those paragon boosts kicking in yet.
Level 6 might be a good one. Even Wizards will have 17 more HP's than they have now, and the only offensive gain will be 2 more feats and an additional daily and encounter power.
I think you also need to take away the extended rest between fights, though, just to discourage Nova tactics a bit. Possibly allow an extended rest after every 3-4 matches.
Taking away the extended rest will only help you so much. Barbarians and Avengers in particular do their best alpha striking with just Encounters.
Fair enough. I don't think you can really balance something like this completely without a bunch of houserules. Taking away the extended rest certainly isn't going to make the situation worse though.
Taking away the extended rest will only help you so much. Barbarians and Avengers in particular do their best alpha striking with just Encounters.
Fair enough. I don't think you can really balance something like this completely without a bunch of houserules. Taking away the extended rest certainly isn't going to make the situation worse though.
Oh I agree. I'm just saying that balance in 4E PvP is inherently doomed and one must accept that if you're going to have any fun with it. Eliminating extended rests between fights would be a good first step to making things at least semi-reasonable.
I think each pillar should have a random burst or blast effect that work like monster rechargables. The effects could be good or bad, and target characters randomly. Or have 2 good pillars and 2 bad pillars, and then try to slide your opponents away from good pillars into bad pillars. Would be interesting to watch.
Playing at a higher level would eliminate the first round kills. 10th-level characters have a much better chance of surviving the alpha strike (even a low con wizard is going to have 56 hp) without having a slew of earth-shattering powers.
Also, if this were a multi-round tourney, I would not allow extended rests, and extra action points and daily item uses would be gained normally (i.e. +1 per two encounters). This would add a layer of resource conservation to the game, since if you blow all your dailies and your action point in the first round, you would be at a disadvantage for the rest of the tournament. Conversely, if you hoard them all, you might be defeated early on.
delroland on
EVE: Online - the most fun you will ever have not playing a game.
"Go up, thou bald head." -2 Kings 2:23
Playing at a higher level would eliminate the first round kills. 10th-level characters have a much better chance of surviving the alpha strike (even a low con wizard is going to have 56 hp) without having a slew of earth-shattering powers.
56 HP is within the range of one shottability at that level. Off the top of my head, even a Paladin can manage such an alpha strike. A Rogue or a Ranger can probably do considerably more, though I haven't investigated the 10th level possibilities for them precisely.
Playing at a higher level would eliminate the first round kills. 10th-level characters have a much better chance of surviving the alpha strike (even a low con wizard is going to have 56 hp) without having a slew of earth-shattering powers.
56 HP is within the range of one shottability at that level. Off the top of my head, even a Paladin can manage such an alpha strike. A Rogue or a Ranger can probably do considerably more, though I haven't investigated the 10th level possibilities for them precisely.
Yeah, but it's not the guaranteed death that 24 hp is. Charging half-orc barbarian (assuming +3 weapon) is 4d12+8, or 34 damage on average (maybe another point or three from feats and items). Sure, on a crit the wizard drops to zero, but that's just the nature of the beast. And that's just wizards with a con of 10: high con wardens would have 100 hp or more.
delroland on
EVE: Online - the most fun you will ever have not playing a game.
"Go up, thou bald head." -2 Kings 2:23
FiggyFighter of the night manChampion of the sunRegistered Userregular
edited May 2009
Environment traps/hazards are exceptionally hard to do, I've found. By the time I see someone has moved where I wanted to place a trap, the next person takes their turn.. then the next..
We might have to consider having a "DM Turn" next game.. at the beginning of every round the DM comes on and either says "Carry on" or changes something on the map.
It's too hard to do on the fly when people are planning out their turns.. even if I managed to update it before they posted, chances are they've already rolled/planned and would hit "submit" before noticing changes.. etc.etc. Huge mess.
Edit: And those who didn't submit a token... I got a little more creative later on. You guys playing in the next match up... hah.
sorry on BOTH accounts dudes--I moved this weekend. I delayed my turn because I wasn't sure about the mace stuff, then my internet setup got delayed byt several hours.
Posts
Nope. I'm advancing you both back to level 1.
edit: and put which square you're moving to in your post
Boo-urns! Don't punish us for my partner's shady Twin Strike math!
This seems wise.
And I apologize for my dishonorable actions. Spartacus will commit seppuku once this tournament is over.
I like this rule. it is now in effect.
FOREVER.
Ok. I wasn't sure if I should pause between actions to allow interrupts and such to take place. I had thought your bard was a Halfling for some reason, so I kept expecting Second Chance. (Plus, a couple of times I accidentally hit submit instead of preview.)
I feel bad about this. Max damage twice in a row?
ok.
Loser's bracket or straight elimination?
And he can still AP and charge my team mate! I strongly suggest no AP for season 2 but I suppose they can't really be pulled out now seeing as they have already been used in the first fight.
No losers bracket for season 1.
It will be more likely for season 2 however. Which with the speed of things will be starting off late next week or so.
A. Sneak attack does not work with a mace.
B. Press the Advantage only works if you BLOODY the opponent. Considering that the attack was made with a mace, sneak attack does not apply, and you can not use this.
Sorry guys.
Running Gork through the character builder, whilst I found he undersold himself on the hit bonuses, he also seems to have overdone the second damage roll by 2 points! Adding 3 damge for a versatile weapon when it only adds 1 as far as I can see. Which puts me at -13, which is just not quite dead!
So macial/clubic sneak attacks are kosher.
I have corrected my error. I'd thought it was +1 per [W].
Starting distance is shaping up to be incredibly important, particularly due to the Rogue's First Strike trait. If two Rogues face off, it might all be decided by the initiative order.
Opening charge you rolled +9 but I work it out as +11 from 3 Str, 1 half level, 2 proficiency, 1 Into the Fray, 2 Charge, 2 Combat Advantage.
Press the advantage you rolled +9 but I work it out as +10 from 4 Dex, 1 half level, 2 proficiency, 1 Into the Fray, 2 Combat Advantage.
Got to love the Character Builder for helping with the fiddly calculations with so many factors you can easily miss.
PSN: SAW776
Personally, I'd up the level to 4, (more HP's, and damage doesn't really go up) increase the starting distance, and run the whole tournament with only short rests in between fights. That way, everyone gets one daily per tournament, one action point every other fight, and might have to conserve healing surges. A glass cannon striker with 5 healing surges over 4 fights might not be a no-brainer choice that way. Seems like it would be more fun that way to me, at least.
And, uh...yes, I'm new. Just try not to hit me in the face too often. I can hide the body blows at least. 8-)
Is anyone genuinely surprised by this? Relatively basic knowledge of 4E would make it plainly obvious that low level PvP was going to end up like this.
Hell even Paragon tier PvP can and does end up one shotting people with a competently built Striker.
White FC: 0819 3350 1787
Level choice is pretty key. Everyone gets a big boost at level 1, and level 11. On the other hand, if you keep to mid to high heroic, everyone has more HP's without those paragon boosts kicking in yet.
Level 6 might be a good one. Even Wizards will have 17 more HP's than they have now, and the only offensive gain will be 2 more feats and an additional daily and encounter power.
I think you also need to take away the extended rest between fights, though, just to discourage Nova tactics a bit. Possibly allow an extended rest after every 3-4 matches.
White FC: 0819 3350 1787
Fair enough. I don't think you can really balance something like this completely without a bunch of houserules. Taking away the extended rest certainly isn't going to make the situation worse though.
Oh I agree. I'm just saying that balance in 4E PvP is inherently doomed and one must accept that if you're going to have any fun with it. Eliminating extended rests between fights would be a good first step to making things at least semi-reasonable.
So expect more rapid fights, rip and tear! :V
White FC: 0819 3350 1787
Azulan Saul Tigh
Also, if this were a multi-round tourney, I would not allow extended rests, and extra action points and daily item uses would be gained normally (i.e. +1 per two encounters). This would add a layer of resource conservation to the game, since if you blow all your dailies and your action point in the first round, you would be at a disadvantage for the rest of the tournament. Conversely, if you hoard them all, you might be defeated early on.
"Go up, thou bald head." -2 Kings 2:23
56 HP is within the range of one shottability at that level. Off the top of my head, even a Paladin can manage such an alpha strike. A Rogue or a Ranger can probably do considerably more, though I haven't investigated the 10th level possibilities for them precisely.
White FC: 0819 3350 1787
Yeah, but it's not the guaranteed death that 24 hp is. Charging half-orc barbarian (assuming +3 weapon) is 4d12+8, or 34 damage on average (maybe another point or three from feats and items). Sure, on a crit the wizard drops to zero, but that's just the nature of the beast. And that's just wizards with a con of 10: high con wardens would have 100 hp or more.
"Go up, thou bald head." -2 Kings 2:23
Still an interactive battle area might lend itself for more entertaining fights
We might have to consider having a "DM Turn" next game.. at the beginning of every round the DM comes on and either says "Carry on" or changes something on the map.
It's too hard to do on the fly when people are planning out their turns.. even if I managed to update it before they posted, chances are they've already rolled/planned and would hit "submit" before noticing changes.. etc.etc. Huge mess.
Edit: And those who didn't submit a token... I got a little more creative later on. You guys playing in the next match up... hah.
sorry on BOTH accounts dudes--I moved this weekend. I delayed my turn because I wasn't sure about the mace stuff, then my internet setup got delayed byt several hours.
Apologies. I guess I make my hit now?
+10 Spirit points for incas for embracing his absurd token.