the way I read 666 is that he only kills when he sees no alternative, and each time he does, he considers it a personal failure and a mark that's he's not as good as Bruce or Dick because he couldn't do it WITHOUT killing. .
It seems that Damian blames each death on himself as a personal failing. He doesn't see killing as the appropriate punishment, nor does he see himself as a judge who hands out death because the system wont, like Jason does. Killing is an unfortunate tool that he uses because he feels he's just not good enough to live up to his childhood idols.
This may be because he actually isn't that good, or because he feels if he surpasses them, he'll loose their memory like Wally West did after he became the Flash, or maybe because he was going to kill anyway and this way he feels he can do that without loosing Batman's message.
Than again this is just me reading into a single line in 666, So I could be off base.
Damian is already really good, I can see him not being as smart as Bruce but he should easily be as skilled by adulthood. So I'm not really sure on why he has to kill people unless he just things that its the best alternative, The Joker probably wouldn't have lasted long with him for example. Though Joker probably wouldn't have bothered with that Batman in the first place.
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FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
Damian is already really good, I can see him not being as smart as Bruce but he should easily be as skilled by adulthood. So I'm not really sure on why he has to kill people unless he just things that its the best alternative, The Joker probably wouldn't have lasted long with him for example. Though Joker probably wouldn't have bothered with that Batman in the first place.
He would never be as good, simply because he would accept killing and death as an acceptable solution. Not necessarily an appropriate one, but an acceptable one.
Damian is already really good, I can see him not being as smart as Bruce but he should easily be as skilled by adulthood. So I'm not really sure on why he has to kill people unless he just things that its the best alternative, The Joker probably wouldn't have lasted long with him for example. Though Joker probably wouldn't have bothered with that Batman in the first place.
He would never be as good, simply because he would accept killing and death as an acceptable solution. Not necessarily an appropriate one, but an acceptable one.
I wouldn't say that lacking Bruce's moral fortitude means he isn't "as good." That's not so much a skill as a value, and DW's right when he says that Damien could just as easily handcuff Pyg as kill him.
That said, Damien probably doesn't have Bruce's capacity for survival, which has been painted as one-of-a-kind and strong enough to serve as a key component of a universe destroying weapon.
As far as I'm aware, not being very knowledgable on the character, Damiens only drive is to be like his father. His will to survive and uphold the job non-lethally is going to be much lower than one who feels responsible for so many deaths personally.
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Linespider5ALL HAIL KING KILLMONGERRegistered Userregular
As far as I'm aware, not being very knowledgable on the character, Damiens only drive is to be like his father. His will to survive and uphold the job non-lethally is going to be much lower than one who feels responsible for so many deaths personally.
He slowly grew out of this
I mean, in the first arc of Batman and Robin he was genuinely concerned about losing Sasha
I would say that having Damian be the mentor throws out a significant amount of the DCAU material as potential canon.
I'm pretty surea significant amount of the DCAU material is thrown out as potential canon by sheer default. Whether or not a tenuous alternate future plays with one of its ideas.
I would say that having Damian be the mentor throws out a significant amount of the DCAU material as potential canon.
I'm pretty surea significant amount of the DCAU material is thrown out as potential canon by sheer default. Whether or not a tenuous alternate future plays with one of its ideas.
Seperate canons
The BB cartoon/comics happen on Earth-12
this is a New Earth possible future
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Just_Bri_ThanksSeething with ragefrom a handbasket.Registered User, ClubPAregular
edited June 2010
The time line between Batgirl and the new Birds of Prey is confusing me.
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...and when you are done with that; take a folding
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
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MaratastikJust call me Mara, please!Registered Userregular
edited June 2010
Just finished RIP and it was FANTASTIC!
It seems like it dealt with some ancient history that I'm unfamiliar with: the isolation chamber, Dr. Hurt, club of superheroes, etc. I'm still not sure who Dr. Hurt really was. At one point he was claiming to be Thomas Wayne, but I know that's not true. One thing I was curious about: Dr. Hurt claims he had been slowly preparing for this moment for a long time, manipulating Batman and so on. Is that foreshadowed in earlier issues (some mysterious figure manipulating events) or was it only mentioned in the RIP arc? Same thing with the trigger phrase, was that ever mentioned before (like during the isolation chamber incident), or did it only come out in the RIP arc?
It seems like it dealt with some ancient history that I'm unfamiliar with: the isolation chamber, Dr. Hurt, club of superheroes, etc. I'm still not sure who Dr. Hurt really was. At one point he was claiming to be Thomas Wayne, but I know that's not true. One thing I was curious about: Dr. Hurt claims he had been slowly preparing for this moment for a long time, manipulating Batman and so on. Is that foreshadowed in earlier issues (some mysterious figure manipulating events) or was it only mentioned in the RIP arc? Same thing with the trigger phrase, was that ever mentioned before (like during the isolation chamber incident), or did it only come out in the RIP arc?
It makes more sense if you read Batman and Son and The Black Glove trades that precede it, with a little more explanation of Hurt and the isolation experiments.
Basically, Morrison is trying to take all of the forgotten silver age Batman stories and characters that were forgotten when comics "grew up," and finding ways to place them back into the character's revised history.
Zeromus will probably show up at some point and give you a really hardcore detailed explanation of everything.
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MaratastikJust call me Mara, please!Registered Userregular
It seems like it dealt with some ancient history that I'm unfamiliar with: the isolation chamber, Dr. Hurt, club of superheroes, etc. I'm still not sure who Dr. Hurt really was. At one point he was claiming to be Thomas Wayne, but I know that's not true. One thing I was curious about: Dr. Hurt claims he had been slowly preparing for this moment for a long time, manipulating Batman and so on. Is that foreshadowed in earlier issues (some mysterious figure manipulating events) or was it only mentioned in the RIP arc? Same thing with the trigger phrase, was that ever mentioned before (like during the isolation chamber incident), or did it only come out in the RIP arc?
It makes more sense if you read Batman and Son and The Black Glove trades that precede it, with a little more explanation of Hurt and the isolation experiments.
Basically, Morrison is trying to take all of the forgotten silver age Batman stories and characters that were forgotten when comics "grew up," and finding ways to place them back into the character's revised history.
Zeromus will probably show up at some point and give you a really hardcore detailed explanation of everything.
Well, I did read black glove first, but I have not read Batman and Son. Is it worth picking up?
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TexiKenDammit!That fish really got me!Registered Userregular
edited June 2010
Basically Morrison has said that he wanted to make every Batman story from the 30s-present actually be in continuity, so he devised things like the isolation chamber and Hurt's experiment. Morrison's idea was that 70 years of story was condensed into a 10 year time frame thanks to sliding comics timelines, and this would take a toll on Batman's mental state for Hurt to exploit.
It seems like it dealt with some ancient history that I'm unfamiliar with: the isolation chamber, Dr. Hurt, club of superheroes, etc. I'm still not sure who Dr. Hurt really was. At one point he was claiming to be Thomas Wayne, but I know that's not true. One thing I was curious about: Dr. Hurt claims he had been slowly preparing for this moment for a long time, manipulating Batman and so on. Is that foreshadowed in earlier issues (some mysterious figure manipulating events) or was it only mentioned in the RIP arc? Same thing with the trigger phrase, was that ever mentioned before (like during the isolation chamber incident), or did it only come out in the RIP arc?
It makes more sense if you read Batman and Son and The Black Glove trades that precede it, with a little more explanation of Hurt and the isolation experiments.
Basically, Morrison is trying to take all of the forgotten silver age Batman stories and characters that were forgotten when comics "grew up," and finding ways to place them back into the character's revised history.
Zeromus will probably show up at some point and give you a really hardcore detailed explanation of everything.
Well, I did read black glove first, but I have not read Batman and Son. Is it worth picking up?
Definitely, the Batman and Son story is just a really tight, world traveling Batman action story. It takes up half the trade, then there's a prose story about the Joker setting up his new role in RIP, and then the first few issues setting the stage for RIP and revealing the hidden history.
The isolation chamber wasn't Morrison's invention, just a handy way of explaining all those insane Silver Age stories.
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TexiKenDammit!That fish really got me!Registered Userregular
edited June 2010
ROBW#3 still good, it doesn't have an oh snap reveal like #2 did, but the current day putting the clues together scene was nice.
Paquette drew Tim like Dr. Midnight though, and the JLA is that short lived Robinson team with Cybrog, Guardian, etc. on the team, and I think this takes place after B&R #13.
ROBW#3 still good, it doesn't have an oh snap reveal like #2 did, but the current day putting the clues together scene was nice.
Paquette drew Tim like Dr. Midnight though, and the JLA is that short lived Robinson team with Cybrog, Guardian, etc. on the team, and I think this takes place after B&R #13.
I just can't understand anyone who thinks ROBW is good, its been crap so far and continued to be so today. He's pointlessly spinning through time just setting up a series of bat-related events so that ultimately he can choose to be a bat after his parents are murdered in an alley. Why this requires 6 issues I dont know.
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Linespider5ALL HAIL KING KILLMONGERRegistered Userregular
ROBW#3 still good, it doesn't have an oh snap reveal like #2 did, but the current day putting the clues together scene was nice.
Paquette drew Tim like Dr. Midnight though, and the JLA is that short lived Robinson team with Cybrog, Guardian, etc. on the team, and I think this takes place after B&R #13.
I just can't understand anyone who thinks ROBW is good, its been crap so far and continued to be so today. He's pointlessly spinning through time just setting up a series of bat-related events so that ultimately he can choose to be a bat after his parents are murdered in an alley. Why this requires 6 issues I dont know.
I didn't think Blackbeard was a strong enough antagonist compared to Savage and the monster/witch hunters from issue 2, so the issue was a bit dull. Also, Bruce never even really became a pirate.
I didn't think Blackbeard was a strong enough antagonist compared to Savage and the monster/witch hunters from issue 2, so the issue was a bit dull. Also, Bruce never even really became a pirate.
Mostly just set-up, I guess.
He went "Boo!" to Blackbeard! And lived to tell the tale!
I liked the reference to Black Pirate having a dark blue cowl like Batman has had when compared to his then current Black Batman cowl. I dunno, something about all these things being caused by Bruce, yet also influencing him in the future (which would really be Bruce as a kid although he doesn't know it yet), it's really cool.
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Sars_BoyRest, You Are The Lightning.Registered Userregular
edited June 2010
Oh my god I can't wait for the next issue yesssssssss
I didn't think Blackbeard was a strong enough antagonist compared to Savage and the monster/witch hunters from issue 2, so the issue was a bit dull.
Man, how great would it have been if the first Marvel/DC crossover in years was a time-traveling Bruce Wayne fighting a time-traveling Ben Grimm posing as Blackbeard? I bet that would have punched things up a bit.
Of course, I've yet to read RoBW, since it seems like the kind of thing I'd like to have in one volume.
I didn't think Blackbeard was a strong enough antagonist compared to Savage and the monster/witch hunters from issue 2, so the issue was a bit dull.
Man, how great would it have been if the first Marvel/DC crossover in years was a time-traveling Bruce Wayne fighting a time-traveling Ben Grimm posing as Blackbeard? I bet that would have punched things up a bit.
Of course, I've yet to read RoBW, since it seems like the kind of thing I'd like to have in one volume.
Every issue being one time period and being the tale of Batman in that period makes it work rather well in single issues.
Also: I've noticed they've started to call the "omega sanction" that Darkseid hit Batman with just the "omega effect" again. Which... wont actually STOP fans from complaining (I doubt anything could) but at least they can't levy hate for it not lining up with how the sanction Seven Soldiers: Mister Miracle. The Omega effect has done a bunch of crazy shit. In fact the first time it was ever shown was to transport someone into the past.
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Garlic Breadi'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm aRegistered User, Disagreeableregular
edited June 2010
Hal Jordan was at the JLA party even though he's traveling through time!
Also
fuck yes Batman vs Jonah Hex
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Linespider5ALL HAIL KING KILLMONGERRegistered Userregular
edited June 2010
I realize now, whether it's intentional or not, #3 helps resolve the cave painting problem. When the pirates show up in the Magiani cave the original bat-glyphs are almost completely gone. With the next few centuries, totally toast and never there by the time little Bruce fell in a well chasing a rabbit.
Posts
To quote myself
It seems that Damian blames each death on himself as a personal failing. He doesn't see killing as the appropriate punishment, nor does he see himself as a judge who hands out death because the system wont, like Jason does. Killing is an unfortunate tool that he uses because he feels he's just not good enough to live up to his childhood idols.
This may be because he actually isn't that good, or because he feels if he surpasses them, he'll loose their memory like Wally West did after he became the Flash, or maybe because he was going to kill anyway and this way he feels he can do that without loosing Batman's message.
Than again this is just me reading into a single line in 666, So I could be off base.
He would never be as good, simply because he would accept killing and death as an acceptable solution. Not necessarily an appropriate one, but an acceptable one.
I wouldn't say that lacking Bruce's moral fortitude means he isn't "as good." That's not so much a skill as a value, and DW's right when he says that Damien could just as easily handcuff Pyg as kill him.
That said, Damien probably doesn't have Bruce's capacity for survival, which has been painted as one-of-a-kind and strong enough to serve as a key component of a universe destroying weapon.
https://twitter.com/Hooraydiation
https://twitter.com/Hooraydiation
I think it was supposed to be Bruce but he was portrayed a lot younger than he should be.
Following the narrative style of the rest of the comic i'd think it would be Damian
So wait a sec.(Huge spoiler's for Batman Beyond)
I think once you bring in Damian as a mentor the whole Epilogue spoiler stuff goes up in the air.
Barbara Gordon being paralyzed and Tim being an adult already made a smooth transition difficult.
https://twitter.com/Hooraydiation
He slowly grew out of this
I mean, in the first arc of Batman and Robin he was genuinely concerned about losing Sasha
I'm pretty surea significant amount of the DCAU material is thrown out as potential canon by sheer default. Whether or not a tenuous alternate future plays with one of its ideas.
Seperate canons
The BB cartoon/comics happen on Earth-12
this is a New Earth possible future
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
It makes more sense if you read Batman and Son and The Black Glove trades that precede it, with a little more explanation of Hurt and the isolation experiments.
Basically, Morrison is trying to take all of the forgotten silver age Batman stories and characters that were forgotten when comics "grew up," and finding ways to place them back into the character's revised history.
Zeromus will probably show up at some point and give you a really hardcore detailed explanation of everything.
Well, I did read black glove first, but I have not read Batman and Son. Is it worth picking up?
Definitely, the Batman and Son story is just a really tight, world traveling Batman action story. It takes up half the trade, then there's a prose story about the Joker setting up his new role in RIP, and then the first few issues setting the stage for RIP and revealing the hidden history.
Paquette drew Tim like Dr. Midnight though, and the JLA is that short lived Robinson team with Cybrog, Guardian, etc. on the team, and I think this takes place after B&R #13.
I just can't understand anyone who thinks ROBW is good, its been crap so far and continued to be so today. He's pointlessly spinning through time just setting up a series of bat-related events so that ultimately he can choose to be a bat after his parents are murdered in an alley. Why this requires 6 issues I dont know.
DarkWarrior can't understand something? I'm shocked!
Mostly just set-up, I guess.
https://twitter.com/Hooraydiation
He went "Boo!" to Blackbeard! And lived to tell the tale!
I liked the reference to Black Pirate having a dark blue cowl like Batman has had when compared to his then current Black Batman cowl. I dunno, something about all these things being caused by Bruce, yet also influencing him in the future (which would really be Bruce as a kid although he doesn't know it yet), it's really cool.
Of course, I've yet to read RoBW, since it seems like the kind of thing I'd like to have in one volume.
Tumblr Twitter
Every issue being one time period and being the tale of Batman in that period makes it work rather well in single issues.
Also: I've noticed they've started to call the "omega sanction" that Darkseid hit Batman with just the "omega effect" again. Which... wont actually STOP fans from complaining (I doubt anything could) but at least they can't levy hate for it not lining up with how the sanction Seven Soldiers: Mister Miracle. The Omega effect has done a bunch of crazy shit. In fact the first time it was ever shown was to transport someone into the past.
Also