-- In the "Today" part in the Frank Quitely section, did anyone else catch the resemblance of the thugs in Crime Alley to the thugs from Dark Knight Returns?
Dick straight up refers to them as "the Mutants"
As for the issue? I thought it was uneven, yet there was still a lot to love. The first story was a little muddy, but that may have just been because of Tony Daniel; it felt muddy in the same way that RIP did, And it was never really clear until the second story that the maybe machine actually manipulated time. The Second story was just golden, despite the art change. The story was strongest here: the premise was consistent yet charming, the banter genuinely funny, and I loved the little things like Dick taking the time to shave while in the most Batman pose possible while on top of a gargoyle. In the third, the art was strongest, and the story was cool and consistent with 666.
Man, this was one story, not four separate ones.
And do you think, perhaps, the first story was a bit "muddy" because Batman was tied up and out of his mind on trippy science experiments while his worst enemies were blowing hallucinogenic drugs everywhere (and into Robin's face!) and cackling and screaming like complete maniacs? That the chaos of all of that might also have come across in the storytelling? Like R.I.P., also? That if things weren't completely explained in that first scene, that's cool, because they were later on in this very issue?
Just sayin'
Well, you COULD look at it like that, I had just assumed the page layouts were out of proportion, but that's not a bad way of looking at it.
Though I do see them as separate stories, just stories that share threads with others. Each story had it's own distinct plot and conflict, the connections were secondary. Just like in that Starman Special with the Knife. And that bit with the unclear maybe machine, it was a conflict with how Batman described it and how the characters reacted to the Joker's suggestion.
I didn't hate the first part, I'm just not big on it, I like it, just don't love it, same as RIP. But it didn't detract from a still great issue. You seem rather confrontational about somone's nitpicks of something he admitted to liking.
How could you think they are separate stories, when the whole thing is the long investigation of the murder of the locked room? The point is that the case got solved over the careers of 3 different Batmans.
You'll even recall in the second part, titled "Today" that Dick told Damien it was a suicide and one day he would understand. Sure enough, one day he did understand. Its all there. Its one linked story that takes place over probably 20 years time.
How could you think they are separate stories, when the whole thing is the long investigation of the murder of the locked room? The point is that the case got solved over the careers of 3 different Batmans.
You'll even recall in the second part, titled "Today" that Dick told Damien it was a suicide and one day he would understand. Sure enough, one day he did understand. Its all there. Its one linked story that takes place over probably 20 years time.
I like to read that scene as Dick making up an answer to piss Damian off
How could you think they are separate stories, when the whole thing is the long investigation of the murder of the locked room? The point is that the case got solved over the careers of 3 different Batmans.
You'll even recall in the second part, titled "Today" that Dick told Damien it was a suicide and one day he would understand. Sure enough, one day he did understand. Its all there. Its one linked story that takes place over probably 20 years time.
That's not what I'm saying, the stories certainly tie together, OBVIOUSLY, but they can still be judged on their own merits as three different stories told in three divergent styles because the primary conflict with each is confined to the one it takes place in. The Doctor is the secondary conflict. It forms a tapestry of three parts, but of three independent parts is what I'm saying.
Zeromus' assertion seemed to be that my confusion with the nature of the Maybe Machine stemmed from the fact that I was impatient for answers that would come later in the development of the Doctor Nichols plot. Which was not my problem, What I had issue with was the incongruity between Batman's description of the machine and how Robin reacted to the Joker saying he'd have Batman stop his own creation. Which was *not* something that was explained away or answered later, it was an inconstancy within the one story. The problem was with how the first tale handled the exposition, not impatience over the development of the b plot throughout the book.
Ya feel me?
EDIT: Oh wow, it took me three readings to realize that the Maybe Machine and the Time Hypnosis were two completely different things. Egg on my face.
I'd like to say that I enjoyed Batman #700 very much, and I also liked all the pin ups at the back, even the Dustin Nguyen ones that are probably unused covers from Streets Of Gotham.
Apparently a lot of those images were unused covers that had been previously solicited. Considering the inclusion of those, rather than more story content, was what pushed the issue to $5, I'm a little miffed, but since the story that was there rocked so hard, I'm not about to be up in arms or anything.
Most likely, yeah. That guy needs all sorts of lead time to get anything done. But I don't hate him for it, because the stuff that he does create is always fantastic.
I thought he had health problems, like back surgery or something.
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Linespider5ALL HAIL KING KILLMONGERRegistered Userregular
edited June 2010
Yeah, he did.
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MaratastikJust call me Mara, please!Registered Userregular
edited June 2010
Okay, I just picked up All Star Batman and Robin, because I thought I had heard it was good....but WTF??
I only just got through the first two issues, but I don't know if I can keep reading.
I mean....he comes in KIDNAPS Dick, scares the crap out of the poor kid and pretty much acts batshit insane, and not in a good kind of way. I mean he acts pretty haphazardly around the cops chasing him, possibly killing or at least nearly killing several. Oh yeah, and the first several times he refers to Dick, he refers to him as a "little brat." I mean this is possibly the absolute worst characterization of Batman that I have ever read... Should I bother reading the rest?
Okay, I just picked up All Star Batman and Robin, because I thought I had heard it was good....but WTF??
I only just got through the first two issues, but I don't know if I can keep reading.
I mean....he comes in KIDNAPS Dick, scares the crap out of the poor kid and pretty much acts batshit insane, and not in a good kind of way. I mean he acts pretty haphazardly around the cops chasing him, possibly killing or at least nearly killing several. Oh yeah, and the first several times he refers to Dick, he refers to him as a "little brat." I mean this is possibly the absolute worst characterization of Batman that I have ever read... Should I bother reading the rest?
Some people will say yes.
But no, you shouldn't. Whether Frank Miller was trying to write a genuinely over the top portrayal of Batman or not, it's just a terrible comic to slog through. The Black Canary issue was enough to put me off reading the rest of it, and I'm a pretty big fan of most everything else Miller's done.
I will give you that, but I just hate Batman's character (in All Star) so much right now. Can you give me some good reasons to keep reading it? I've only just started, so I may be writing it off too quickly, but can you give me some reasons why you like it? (Without being too spoilerific). I'll probably finish it anyway, after all I did buy it, but maybe you can give me something to look forward towards...
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Garlic Breadi'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm aRegistered User, Disagreeableregular
edited June 2010
Because it get so ridiculous that you can't even predict anything
It's just bizarre
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augustwhere you come from is goneRegistered Userregular
edited June 2010
Frank Miller is basically Insane Clown Posse at this point.
I will give you that, but I just hate Batman's character (in All Star) so much right now. Can you give me some good reasons to keep reading it? I've only just started, so I may be writing it off too quickly, but can you give me some reasons why you like it? (Without being too spoilerific). I'll probably finish it anyway, after all I did buy it, but maybe you can give me something to look forward towards...
Look, it's really, really bad. I mean, Wonder Woman's characterisation is poor enough but the dialogue? Awful. However it is one of those so bad it's good cases, it's almost a parody really. The Wonder Woman issues is probably the worst but it is bad all the way through. Pretty much the only remotely likeable character in the whole thing is Hal Jordan, who thinks Batman's crazy but doesn't want his head on a pike, tries to talk to him, and gets a...
crushed windpipe courtesy of Robin for his trouble. oh, and he also gets called a moron by Batman all the way through because he doesn't use his Ring as a WMD basically.
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Garlic Breadi'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm aRegistered User, Disagreeableregular
Because it get so ridiculous that you can't even predict anything
It's just bizarre
Eh, I may get a laugh out of it then. I guess I just went in expecting normal batman when apparently it is anything but.
I had the same problem when I first read it
But if you accept that it's just going to be anything but proper Batman, it's amazing
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Just_Bri_ThanksSeething with ragefrom a handbasket.Registered User, ClubPAregular
edited June 2010
Yeah, now that I see it I am thinking that I approve of Wendy training to replace Oracle wrt Batgirl. They won't be able to work out of the cave any more though.
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Just_Bri_ThanksSeething with ragefrom a handbasket.Registered User, ClubPAregular
edited June 2010
I am not seeing much of a difference between Damian Wayne as Batman and Jason Todd. They both have the murderous streak in them.
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Jason Todd is murderous and blunt whereas Damien is much more methodical. Damien crosses the line because he sees it as the best path, whereas Jason Todd crosses the line because it's the only solution he can ever conceive.
The distinction is that Jason is a brutish idiot with no imagination, whereas Damien was capable of booby-trapping the whole of Gotham City with explosives and the like so nobody could ever catch him off-guard. They'll both kill a guy at the end, but that doesn't change the fact that Damien is more like Bruce than Jason is.
Damien could even be exactly like Bruce if he wanted too, using ingenuity to guarantee non-lethal takedowns. He just chooses not to.
Jason doesn't have that option, though, and that's part of why he's so angry. If he tried to fight people in the manner Bruce does, he'd eventually get killed after running out of ideas. His willingness to kill is the only edge he has, which is why he's loathe to give that up. Unfortunately, so long as he holds onto it, he'll never measure up to Bruce's other successors.
Because it get so ridiculous that you can't even predict anything
It's just bizarre
Eh, I may get a laugh out of it then. I guess I just went in expecting normal batman when apparently it is anything but.
I had the same problem when I first read it
But if you accept that it's just going to be anything but proper Batman, it's amazing
Welp, you were right. I stopped taking it seriously and it was much better. You just have to realize that Batman is a complete lunatic in Frank Miller's world. I mean he laughs like a lunatic everytime he jumps into combat, which I actually think he was using it to freak the hell out of the people he was fighting. I still groaned everytime he was referred to as the "goddamn batman," though. Also, the ending of the first volume helped his character a bit. I may actually check out any follow ups.
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Garlic Breadi'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm aRegistered User, Disagreeableregular
edited June 2010
There's just one issue out of the hardcover (#10). It's being relaunched in February or so as Dark Knight: Boy Wonder and finish the last six issues
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Just_Bri_ThanksSeething with ragefrom a handbasket.Registered User, ClubPAregular
edited June 2010
I would like to see Tim become Batman officially sometime before I die, but with my luck it will still be Bruce.
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Well, you COULD look at it like that, I had just assumed the page layouts were out of proportion, but that's not a bad way of looking at it.
Though I do see them as separate stories, just stories that share threads with others. Each story had it's own distinct plot and conflict, the connections were secondary. Just like in that Starman Special with the Knife. And that bit with the unclear maybe machine, it was a conflict with how Batman described it and how the characters reacted to the Joker's suggestion.
I didn't hate the first part, I'm just not big on it, I like it, just don't love it, same as RIP. But it didn't detract from a still great issue. You seem rather confrontational about somone's nitpicks of something he admitted to liking.
You'll even recall in the second part, titled "Today" that Dick told Damien it was a suicide and one day he would understand. Sure enough, one day he did understand. Its all there. Its one linked story that takes place over probably 20 years time.
I like to read that scene as Dick making up an answer to piss Damian off
That's not what I'm saying, the stories certainly tie together, OBVIOUSLY, but they can still be judged on their own merits as three different stories told in three divergent styles because the primary conflict with each is confined to the one it takes place in. The Doctor is the secondary conflict. It forms a tapestry of three parts, but of three independent parts is what I'm saying.
Zeromus' assertion seemed to be that my confusion with the nature of the Maybe Machine stemmed from the fact that I was impatient for answers that would come later in the development of the Doctor Nichols plot. Which was not my problem, What I had issue with was the incongruity between Batman's description of the machine and how Robin reacted to the Joker saying he'd have Batman stop his own creation. Which was *not* something that was explained away or answered later, it was an inconstancy within the one story. The problem was with how the first tale handled the exposition, not impatience over the development of the b plot throughout the book.
Ya feel me?
EDIT: Oh wow, it took me three readings to realize that the Maybe Machine and the Time Hypnosis were two completely different things. Egg on my face.
I only just got through the first two issues, but I don't know if I can keep reading.
Best. Frank. Millar. Comic. Ever.
You're taking it too seriously
But no, you shouldn't. Whether Frank Miller was trying to write a genuinely over the top portrayal of Batman or not, it's just a terrible comic to slog through. The Black Canary issue was enough to put me off reading the rest of it, and I'm a pretty big fan of most everything else Miller's done.
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chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
Well I'm friending you on Xanga, and then putting you in a group called Dudes Who Are Not Really My Friends.
What up now?
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So are you saying I should read it...or is this one of those, "yeah, it's really good, and by "really good," I mean awful..."
I will give you that, but I just hate Batman's character (in All Star) so much right now. Can you give me some good reasons to keep reading it? I've only just started, so I may be writing it off too quickly, but can you give me some reasons why you like it? (Without being too spoilerific). I'll probably finish it anyway, after all I did buy it, but maybe you can give me something to look forward towards...
It's just bizarre
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15 HOURS AGO
5 HOURS AGO
2 HOURS LATER
3 HOURS EARLIER BEFORE THE 2 HOURS LATER
Eh, I may get a laugh out of it then. I guess I just went in expecting normal batman when apparently it is anything but.
Look, it's really, really bad. I mean, Wonder Woman's characterisation is poor enough but the dialogue? Awful. However it is one of those so bad it's good cases, it's almost a parody really. The Wonder Woman issues is probably the worst but it is bad all the way through. Pretty much the only remotely likeable character in the whole thing is Hal Jordan, who thinks Batman's crazy but doesn't want his head on a pike, tries to talk to him, and gets a...
I had the same problem when I first read it
But if you accept that it's just going to be anything but proper Batman, it's amazing
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
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I am not seeing a significant distinction there. They both think it is best.
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
Damien could even be exactly like Bruce if he wanted too, using ingenuity to guarantee non-lethal takedowns. He just chooses not to.
Jason doesn't have that option, though, and that's part of why he's so angry. If he tried to fight people in the manner Bruce does, he'd eventually get killed after running out of ideas. His willingness to kill is the only edge he has, which is why he's loathe to give that up. Unfortunately, so long as he holds onto it, he'll never measure up to Bruce's other successors.
https://twitter.com/Hooraydiation
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
Welp, you were right. I stopped taking it seriously and it was much better. You just have to realize that Batman is a complete lunatic in Frank Miller's world. I mean he laughs like a lunatic everytime he jumps into combat, which I actually think he was using it to freak the hell out of the people he was fighting. I still groaned everytime he was referred to as the "goddamn batman," though. Also, the ending of the first volume helped his character a bit. I may actually check out any follow ups.
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.