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[WoW][Paladin] More seals than the Burlington Coat Factory.

StericaSterica Wow!That was shit.Registered User, Moderator mod
edited April 2010 in MMO Extravaganza
The paladins, sometimes known as the Twelve Peers, were the foremost warriors of Charlemagne's court, according to the literary cycle known as the Matter of France.[1] They first appear in the early chansons de geste such as The Song of Roland, where they represent Christian martial valor against the Saracen hordes. The paladins and their associated exploits are largely later fictional inventions, with some basis on historical Frankish retainers of the 8th century and events such as the Battle of Roncevaux Pass and the confrontation of the Frankish Empire with Umayyad Al-Andalus in the Marca Hispanica.

The earliest recorded instance of the word paladin in the English language dates to 1592, in a poem by Samuel Daniel.[1] It entered English through the Middle French word palladin or paladin, which itself derived from the Italian paladino.[1] All these words for Charlemagne's Twelve Peers likely descend ultimately from the Latin palatinus through the Old French palatin.[1] The Latin palatinus referred to an official of the Roman Emperor connected to the imperial palace on the Palatine Hill; over time this word came to refer to other high-level officials in the imperial and royal courts.[2] The word palatine, used in various European countries in the medieval and modern eras, has the same derivation.[2]
By the 13th century words referring specifically to Charlemagne's peers began appearing in European languages; the earliest is the Italian paladino.[1] Modern French has paladin, Spanish has paladín or paladino (reflecting alternate derivations from the French and Italian), while German has Paladin.[1] By extension "paladin" has come to refer to any chivalrous hero such as King Arthur's Knights of the Round Table.[1]

In their earliest appearances the paladins were not the companions of Charlemagne, but of his vassal Roland. This Roland is based on the historical figure Hroudland, who is mentioned by Charlemagne's biographer Einhard as a Lord of the Breton March who died in the Battle of Roncevaux Pass; nothing else of him is known.[3] By the end of the 12th century the paladins were increasingly thought of as an association reporting to the king after the fashion of the Round Table; the earliest romance to portray them in this way is Fierabras, dating to around 1170. The names of the twelve paladins vary from romance to romance, and often more than twelve are named. The number is popular because it resembles the Twelve Apostles – giving the king the position of Jesus not out of arrogance, but as a reminder of his holy mission as ruler. All Carolingian paladin stories feature paladins by the names of Roland and Oliver; other recurring characters are Archbishop Turpin, Ogier the Dane, Huon of Bordeaux, Fierabras, Renaud de Montauban, and Ganelon. Tales of the paladins once rivaled the stories of King Arthur and the knights of the Round Table in popularity.
The paladins figure into many chansons de geste and other tales associated with Charlemagne. In the above-mentioned Fierabras, they retrieve holy relics stolen from Rome by the Saracen giant Fierabras and (in some versions) convert him to Christianity and recruit him to their ranks. In Le Pèlerinage de Charlemagne they accompany their king on a pilgrimage to Jerusalem and Constantinople in order to outdo the Byzantine Emperor Hugo. However, their greatest moments come in The Song of Roland, which depicts their defense of Charlemagne's army against the Saracens of Al-Andalus, and their deaths at the Battle of Roncevaux Pass due to the treachery of Ganelon. The Song of Roland lists the twelve paladins as Roland, Charlemagne's nephew and the chief hero among the paladins; Oliver, Roland's friend and strongest ally; and Gérin, Gérier, Bérengier, Otton, Samson, Engelier, Ivon, Ivoire, Anséis, Girard (similar spellings are possible).[4] Other characters elsewhere considered part of the twelve appear in the Song, such as Archbishop Turpin and Ogier the Dane.
The Italian Renaissance authors Matteo Maria Boiardo and Ludovico Ariosto, whose works were once as widely read and respected as William Shakespeare's, contributed prominently to the literary and poetical reworking of the tales of the epic deeds of the paladins. Their works, Orlando Innamorato and Orlando Furioso, send the paladins on even more fantastic adventures than their predecessors. They list the paladins quite differently, but keep the number at twelve.[5] Boiardo and Ariosto's paladins are Orlando (Roland), Charlemagne's nephew and the chief hero among the paladins; Oliver, the rival to Roland; Ferumbras (Fierabras), the Saracen who became a Christian; Astolpho, descended from Charles Martel and cousin to Orlando; Ogier the Dane; Ganelon the betrayer, who appears in Dante Alighieri's Inferno;[6] Rinaldo (Renaud de Montauban); Malagigi (Maugris), a sorcerer; Florismart, a friend to Orlando; Guy de Bourgogne; Namo (Naimon or Namus), Duke of Bavaria, Charlemagne's trusted adviser; and Otuel, another converted Saracen.
The Italian Orlandos inspired a number of composers over the next few centuries, who created operas and other musical works on Orlando and the paladins. Afterwards the Charlemagne material went into decline. While the Arthurian legend experienced a major revival in the 19th century in the hands of the Romantic and Victorian poets, writers, and artists, ensuring that Arthur and his knights are well known into the 21st century, no such resurgence occurred for Charlemagne and his paladins. Modern adaptations and reworkings including the Carolingian paladins are few and far between, but the concept of the chivalrous "paladin" lives on.

Furman University in Greenville, South Carolina, uses the nickname "Paladins" for their athletic teams. The Royal Military College of Canada in Kingston, Ontario, is represented in Canadian Interuniversity Sport by the RMC Paladins logo. In the late 1950s and early 1960s the American television series Have Gun – Will Travel starred Richard Boone as a "knight without armor" called "Paladin".[7]
In the 20th century the popular American role-playing game Dungeons & Dragons featured a character class called the paladin, inspired by the Charlemagne stories;[8] and many later games have followed suit depicting the Paladin as a paragon of virtue and goodness.

Notes

1^ a b c d e f g "Paladin". From the Oxford English Dictionary. Retrieved November 23, 2008.
2^ a b "Palatine". From the Oxford English Dictionary. Retrieved November 23, 2008.
3^ Dutton, Paul Edward, ed. and trans. Charlemagne's Courtier: The Complete Einhard, pp. 21-22. 4Peterborough, Ontario, Canada: Broadview Press, 1998.
5 Conradus the priest (12th century), Song of Roland. ISBN 3-920153-02-2
6^ Frank, Grace, La Passion du Palatinus : mystère du XIVe siècle, in : Les Classiques français du moyen âge (30) Paris 1922.
7^ The Divine Comedy, Canto XXXII.
8^ Have Gun – Will Travel closing theme song, http://www.hgwt.com/ballad.wav. imdb entry^ DeVarque, Aardy. "Literary Sources of D&D". Retrieved 2007-02-23.

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Sterica on
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Posts

  • SabreMauSabreMau ネトゲしよう 판다리아Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Approved.

    Remember how female BE paladins have 2H weapons scale down for them? Time to overcompensate:

    beepw.jpg

    Yeah, T2 armor's probably going to become unavailable in expansion, but still looks good.


    Informational Data:

    PvE Retribution stuff. It's what I know, haven't checked Holy/Prot lately. Probably elsewhere on that forum. Here's a 3.2 PvE ret spec.

    SabreMau on
  • formatformat Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    51/5/15 holy spec- good for most everything

    51/20/0 holy spec - what most hard mode paladins are using to cut down on raid damage

    51/0/20 holy spec - what other hard mode paladins are using for mana efficiency.

    format on
    You don't know if I am joking or not.
  • TofystedethTofystedeth veni, veneri, vamoosi Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Thread title is gold.

    Tofystedeth on
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  • ThomamelasThomamelas Only one man can kill this many Russians. Bring his guitar to me! Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    http://omacl.org/Roland/r1-87.html

    The Song of Roland, you should add it to the OP.

    Thomamelas on
  • formatformat Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    the footnotes got out of sync somewhere

    format on
    You don't know if I am joking or not.
  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Does this mean the druid thread is going to suffer and see only half as many great thread titles?

    forty on
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  • RedDawnRedDawn Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    I like the number 8 foot note.

    My paladin is sitting at 32 right now with the heirloom shoulders, chest and 2h axe. Waiting on a buddy of mine to get his up and going so we can wreck stuff together.

    RedDawn on
  • MagicPrimeMagicPrime FiresideWizard Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    The mace is so big on that cow that the textures look even shittier.

    MagicPrime on
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  • The Count Of Midget FistoThe Count Of Midget Fisto Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    So, leveling as ret has been easy mode, I kind of wish that I did a paladin initially

    The Count Of Midget Fisto on
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  • StericaSterica Wow! That was shit.Registered User, Moderator mod
    edited September 2009
    What the fuck do I bind auras to?

    Sterica on
    YL9WnCY.png
  • Beyond NormalBeyond Normal Lord Phender Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    So, this is a good example of how NOT to spec prot.

    http://www.wowarmory.com/character-talents.xml?r=Dark+Iron&n=Mushsogene&group=2

    I wish he logged off in his prot gear just because it's a lot worse than his spec. 500 defense, 24k health, no gems, barely any enchants. Good stuff, and he's a guildie.

    Beyond Normal on
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  • CarnarvonCarnarvon Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    So, this is a good example of how NOT to spec prot.

    http://www.wowarmory.com/character-talents.xml?r=Dark+Iron&n=Mushsogene&group=2

    I wish he logged off in his prot gear just because it's a lot worse than his spec. 500 defense, 24k health, no gems, barely any enchants. Good stuff, and he's a guildie.

    Well, he did take all the good prot talents!

    Carnarvon on
  • HenroidHenroid Radio Demon Internet HellRegistered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Thread title is gold.

    Rorus owes me royalties for it.

    Henroid on
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  • OwenashiOwenashi Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    SabreMau wrote: »
    beepw.jpg

    Speaking of oversized Judgement suits...
    judgementgundam.jpg

    Not bad, but I'm not sure if any of the other tiers would work out giant-robot-ed.

    Owenashi on
  • turtleantturtleant Gunpla Dad is the best.Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Owenashi wrote: »
    SabreMau wrote: »
    beepw.jpg

    Speaking of oversized Judgement suits...
    judgementgundam.jpg

    Not bad, but I'm not sure if any of the other tiers would work out giant-robot-ed.

    That mech is the best thing ever.

    turtleant on
    X22wmuF.jpg
  • formatformat Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Owenashi wrote: »
    Not bad, but I'm not sure if any of the other tiers would work out giant-robot-ed.

    a gis gave me this http://images.mmosite.com/news/2006/12/31/wowgonda1.jpg

    format on
    You don't know if I am joking or not.
  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Rorus Raz wrote: »
    What the fuck do I bind auras to?

    Never bothered binding auras myself. You're never going to need to change quickly enough to need a keybind.

    Dhalphir on
  • metallicmetallic Registered User
    edited September 2009
    Ok, seriously, what am I doing wrong? I never seem to rank higher than 3rd on the dps chart in any given group. I use Blessing of Might, Seal of Command and Retribution Aura and this is my rotation.....

    Judgment---Crusader Strike---Divine Storm---Consecration---Exorcism

    http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Stormreaver&cn=Orassa&gn=Virulent+Vanguard

    I would really appreciate any input.

    metallic on
  • ArkanArkan Registered User
    edited September 2009
    Your spec is bad. Drop everything from holy except Seals of the Pure (and get it to 5/5), get 5/5 Divine Strength, lose Deflection, and fill out Fanatacism, Sanctified Wrath, and Sheath of Light.

    If you have leftover points once you do that, then you can get other talents.

    Arkan on
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  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    edited September 2009
    metallic wrote: »
    Ok, seriously, what am I doing wrong? I never seem to rank higher than 3rd on the dps chart in any given group. I use Blessing of Might, Seal of Command and Retribution Aura and this is my rotation.....

    Judgment---Crusader Strike---Divine Storm---Consecration---Exorcism

    http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Stormreaver&cn=Orassa&gn=Virulent+Vanguard

    I would really appreciate any input.

    its because you have talents that don't boost DPS in any way.

    see if you can spot which they are.

    hint, increasing your healing spells doesn't boost your DPS, nor does increasing your parry chance
    i realise I could simply post a cookiecutter spec for you to follow but its more important that you know why you're following it than to just follow it.

    Dhalphir on
  • PoketpixiePoketpixie Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    First let's talk about your talents....you'll want to max out improved blessing of might, vengeance, fanaticism, sanctified wrath, sheath of light, and divine strength. Seals of the Pure is good to have too. You can take points out of vindication and deflection as well as all those other holy talents to get the points you need.

    Second...gear. You're wearing some pvp and defense gear mixed with your dps gear. You're also not at the hit cap. You'll want to replace the pvp/defense items when you can and switch some gems to get to the hit cap. I'd gem more for hit until you reach the cap and then strength after that. Your glyphs are fine for the most part.

    If you can get a libram that buffs Crusader strike or judgement damage I think that would work better. I'm not a point with my pally where I've gotten around to that yet so haven't looked at the options much but I'm pretty sure there's better librams than the one you're using. Edit: I know these can be hard to get ahold of depending on the source so sometimes ya gotta make due.

    As for seals...right now Seal of Righteousness for trash and Seal of Vengeance for bosses are the optimal choices.

    That's my 2 cents.

    Poketpixie on
  • metallicmetallic Registered User
    edited September 2009
    Thank you so much you guys.

    metallic on
  • IshtaarIshtaar Fun is underrated. Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Ugh, so my Paladin hit 80 a few weeks ago, but with the patch and all the new stuff I haven't had much time to play her. Thursday on of the officers was like "hey did you get tank gear yet, we need someone for Monday." So... well, it's amazing what a couple days, 10k gold and a million heroics can do:
    http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Scilla&n=Ishie

    Green to purple in 48 hours. So, what did I fk up? I've been pouring through as many forums/informational sites as I could but there's all sorts of conflicting info. (I assume some of it hasn't been updated) Eventually she'll be a tank for TotC runs so I'll drop the 5 points from Holy, um.... Man I need sleep.

    Ishtaar on
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  • rizriz Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    I'm jealous of your tier gear. Emalon hates my paladin, and pretty much every alt 10-man Ulduar I've run, we've had some new recruit come along on his main who is on my token, so I can't get anything there either. I finally replaced t7 shoulders with t9 from the badge vendor. :|

    Anyway, some things I noticed: 1) You never want 2/2 Improved Judgements as prot, always 1/2, otherwise it fucks your rotation. 2) Divine Guardian is still really useful. 3) Reckoning, AFAIK, is still utter crap and no one takes it.

    riz on
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  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Bearing in mind it will only fuck your rotation if you actually use 969696.

    A lot of paladin tanks just use FCFS, our MT used to before he switched to his DK. Oceanic latency made 969696 largely an exercise in futility.

    Dhalphir on
  • AddaAdda Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    So, leveling as ret has been easy mode, I kind of wish that I did a paladin initially

    Yeah my little ret is killing things in awesome fashion. I think the heirloom gear also does something to help that though.

    Adda on
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  • IshtaarIshtaar Fun is underrated. Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Dhalphir wrote: »
    Bearing in mind it will only fuck your rotation if you actually use 969696.

    A lot of paladin tanks just use FCFS, our MT used to before he switched to his DK. Oceanic latency made 969696 largely an exercise in futility.

    I forget sometimes how lucky I am living less that 100 miles from my server hardware and I don't have Comcast...

    Ishtaar on
    FFXIV: Sith Lord ~ D3: Ish ~ Steam:Ishie
  • CokebotleCokebotle 穴掘りの Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Dhalphir wrote: »
    Bearing in mind it will only fuck your rotation if you actually use 969696.

    A lot of paladin tanks just use FCFS, our MT used to before he switched to his DK. Oceanic latency made 969696 largely an exercise in futility.

    Except isn't it common to only take 1/2 in Imp Judgements? Thereby making a 969 rotation FCFS, given that we have 5 tanking abilities, 3 are 9 second cooldowns and 2 are 6 seconds?

    Cokebotle on
    工事中
  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Cokebotle wrote: »
    Dhalphir wrote: »
    Bearing in mind it will only fuck your rotation if you actually use 969696.

    A lot of paladin tanks just use FCFS, our MT used to before he switched to his DK. Oceanic latency made 969696 largely an exercise in futility.

    Except isn't it common to only take 1/2 in Imp Judgements? Thereby making a 969 rotation FCFS, given that we have 5 tanking abilities, 3 are 9 second cooldowns and 2 are 6 seconds?

    I don't know, I haven't tanked with a paladin since Burning Crusade.

    All I know is that I always saw him hit ShoR and HotR first, followed by Holy Shield and then Judgement, and then he just said he hits whatevers off cooldown and does the most damage.

    Dhalphir on
  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Ishtaar wrote: »
    Dhalphir wrote: »
    Bearing in mind it will only fuck your rotation if you actually use 969696.

    A lot of paladin tanks just use FCFS, our MT used to before he switched to his DK. Oceanic latency made 969696 largely an exercise in futility.

    I forget sometimes how lucky I am living less that 100 miles from my server hardware and I don't have Comcast...

    Apparently putting oceanic servers IN Oceania was too much effort.

    Dhalphir on
  • HamurabiHamurabi AmsterdamRegistered User regular
    edited September 2009
    I really don't know how you guys have managed to go so many threads without referring to this:

    di_shop.jpg

    Hamurabi on
  • CokebotleCokebotle 穴掘りの Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Yeah, it would probably end up being 969, just not macroed, then. Assuming it's bosses and he uses consecrate, that is. *shrug*

    Sidenote: I am definitely loving the hammer glyph for prot, though. No consecrate except on packs larger than 4 and no mana problems except for a few fights I just plain suck at (I'm looking at you, HoS computer thingie).

    Cokebotle on
    工事中
  • Zephyranthes91Zephyranthes91 Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Ishtaar wrote: »
    Ugh, so my Paladin hit 80 a few weeks ago, but with the patch and all the new stuff I haven't had much time to play her. Thursday on of the officers was like "hey did you get tank gear yet, we need someone for Monday." So... well, it's amazing what a couple days, 10k gold and a million heroics can do:
    http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Scilla&n=Ishie

    Green to purple in 48 hours. So, what did I fk up? I've been pouring through as many forums/informational sites as I could but there's all sorts of conflicting info. (I assume some of it hasn't been updated) Eventually she'll be a tank for TotC runs so I'll drop the 5 points from Holy, um.... Man I need sleep.

    Everything looks good except a few things with your talents. Keep the 5 in holy since the change to SoV in 3.2 it makes that talent almost necessary. Drop the points you have in Imp. HoJ and reckoning and put them into Divine Sac and Imp Sac. Take both points out of Vindication and 1 point out of Imp Judgements. Vindication is useless since a warriors imp Demo shout is better and a serious raid guild should have a warrior with that. I used those extra 3 points for Imp Might and a second point in PoJ. Imp might is usefull when you're the only pally and some of the DPS don't want kings, and PoJ is awesome. Your glyphs are good, nothing wrong there. You're gems are alright, it's better to gem for just pure stam, avoidance will come from your gear. Switch your weapon enchant from Blood Draining to Blade Ward. It was buffed in 3.2 and I regularly have at least a 3 stack while main tanking and I have gotten up to a 5 stack before.

    Also fuck you gimme my shoulders and Shiver >: (

    Zephyranthes91 on
    sig-919109.jpg
  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    edited September 2009
  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    edited September 2009
    wait Blade Warding was buffed what?

    EXPLAIN

    Dhalphir on
  • Beyond NormalBeyond Normal Lord Phender Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    It just procs a little more often, which is nice.

    Beyond Normal on
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  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    edited September 2009
    can anyone give some realistic assessment of the change?

    does it make it actually worth it to use this?

    I've just been sticking with Accuracy for now because Blood Draining was shit and Blade Warding was worse.

    Dhalphir on
  • Beyond NormalBeyond Normal Lord Phender Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    So far all I have learned is that they just upped the proc rate on it.

    Beyond Normal on
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  • Zephyranthes91Zephyranthes91 Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Like I said, when I MT fights It regularly gets to stack up to about 3 on average. I have had it stack up to 5 on multiple occasions. A lot of times I see the buff run all the way through, that's probably because I keep my self unhittable and I run with 30% dodge or more during a rid.

    Zephyranthes91 on
    sig-919109.jpg
  • CokebotleCokebotle 穴掘りの Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Hm... how expensive is the Blade Ward enchant? I'm just running with a titanium chain at the moment, but now that we have a new tank, I'm back to mostly Ret, except for Ulduar stuff, so if it's not too expensive I may look into it.

    Also, how common is it for prot pallies to take Divine Sac? I have it in my ret build, because where the hell else would I put the points, but how often would you use it on a fight with 2 tanks? Freya hard mode I could see, but other than that?

    Cokebotle on
    工事中
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