Orcs and Goblins are a very luck-based army in some ways. Make sure you use your WAAAGH! rule when you're mid table so you can get up in their faces. Shamans of the little waaaagh and the big waaagh can also help tremendously with this as they both have a spell or two to move units closer to the enemy.
Remember that Black Orcs have the Armed To Da Teef rule, so they can change weapons between games to be more versatile - giving them shields can help them get up the board without getting shot down, giving them double choppas will help them kill better once they're up there.
Cutting a war machine or two and replacing them with shamans might help. I'm also not a big fan of spider riders, personally.
EDIT: I disagree with taking a rank off the goblins. I roll with two big blocks of 40 goblins and it means that they never run due to panic, which is good because of their low leadership and triggering other goblin panic tests.
EDIT: I disagree with taking a rank off the goblins. I roll with two big blocks of 40 goblins and it means that they never run due to panic, which is good because of their low leadership and triggering other goblin panic tests.
This is probably a personal preference thing, I'm guessing. It depends what you want your goblins to accomplish. If you just want them to eject fanatics and maybe redirect 1 charge before being cut down, I'd run small units. If you want them to try tarpitting something, and holding some flanks or lasting more than 1 or 2 rounds of combat, then you're definitely right about big units.
Remember that Black Orcs have the Armed To Da Teef rule, so they can change weapons between [strike]games[/strike] combats to be more versatile
There ya go, Cas.
WAIT ARE YOU SERIOUS
Yes. At the beginning of any given combat they may choose what they wish to use in that ensuing combat. Between combats they can use shields for the protectyness from the shooteyness. But yeah, they can choose greatweapons as they charge into combat, and if they win that combat and overrun into something else, they can just decide to use dual choppas or whatever. Once they pick their weapon, they're stuck with it for the duration of that particular combat, just as any other unit is, but they are considered to carry all the weapon times allowed for them at all times.
Remember that Black Orcs have the Armed To Da Teef rule, so they can change weapons between [strike]games[/strike] combats to be more versatile
There ya go, Cas.
WAIT ARE YOU SERIOUS
Yes. At the beginning of any given combat they may choose what they wish to use in that ensuing combat. Between combats they can use shields for the protectyness from the shooteyness. But yeah, they can choose greatweapons as they charge into combat, and if they win that combat and overrun into something else, they can just decide to use dual choppas or whatever. Once they pick their weapon, they're stuck with it for the duration of that particular combat, just as any other unit is, but they are considered to carry all the weapon times allowed for them at all times.
Ahhhh I've been doing it wrong and no one ever corrected me because no one at my store plays Orcs and Goblins
Ahhhh I've been doing it wrong and no one ever corrected me because no one at my store plays Orcs and Goblins
Makes blorcs a bit nicer. I think they're still a point or two overpriced. They are a nasty, hard unit, but they seem awful spendy, especially compared to some of the newer elite infantry to come out. Saurus, anyone?
Point for point maybe, but in the O&G army having a unit that is 100% reliable is worth a few extra points.
Giant retreating and being pursued and felled
Something is wrong here, now I'm sure you could have gotten lucky but were you remembering that your ld 10 giant is stubborn? No matter what the combat situation is giants only flee on a 11-12, so I find it pretty unlikely that your giant was broken in your first game.
A fast tough stubborn unit is incredible for the points. 205 is a large chunk, but it's by far the best rare slot in the army.
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PiptheFairFrequently not in boats.Registered Userregular
Point for point maybe, but in the O&G army having a unit that is 100% reliable is worth a few extra points.
Giant retreating and being pursued and felled
Something is wrong here, now I'm sure you could have gotten lucky but were you remembering that your ld 10 giant is stubborn? No matter what the combat situation is giants only flee on a 11-12, so I find it pretty unlikely that your giant was broken in your first game.
A fast tough stubborn unit is incredible for the points. 205 is a large chunk, but it's by far the best rare slot in the army.
Man, trolls are a bunch of motherfuckers. I've charged 4 trolls with 5 chaos knights, had them regen 6 of 8 wounds caused, vomit and kill 3 knights, and then run down the other two.
Regen is really hard to account for and vomit bones you if you rely on a huge armor save.
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IanatorGaze upon my works, ye mightyand facepalm.Registered Userregular
edited June 2009
Thanks for the advice y'all. Boyz' spears will be removed, so they'll just be shields and choppas. Warboss will switch his Enchanted Shield and Sword of Might for da Best Basha and maybe something else, Spiders will be split and given bows, Gobbo Boss will be replaced with a Shaman, Black Orcs may get shields. Will maek poast again when the list is ready.
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Black orcs have to buy shields? Is that not covered under 'armed to da teef'? I thought they were counted as having shields, 1 or 2 choppas, and great weapons at all times, and being able to swap freely between them.
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IanatorGaze upon my works, ye mightyand facepalm.Registered Userregular
edited June 2009
Nope, Black Orcs gotta buy their shields.
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AlazullYour body is not a temple, it's an amusement park.Enjoy the ride.Registered Userregular
edited June 2009
Armed to da Teef only allows you to use a shield if you purchase it, I believe.
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User name Alazull on Steam, PSN, Nintenders, Epic, etc.
I also wouldn't recommend spears for night gobbos. Those extra 5 ws3 s3 attacks aren't going to do much good. If spears cost anything over hand weapon + shield, I'd stick with the hand weapon. I can't remember the points cost on them though.
I dislike trolls because stupidity is too much of a liability. You either have to baby sit them with a character or your general, which dramatically limits your tactical flexibility, or you have to deal with them being useless half the time. In an army that's already extremely random, you really don't want your rare choices to be heavily luck based as well.
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General NemoThe Mighty ShameChurch for DogsRegistered Userregular
I dislike trolls because stupidity is too much of a liability. You either have to baby sit them with a character or your general, which dramatically limits your tactical flexibility, or you have to deal with them being useless half the time. In an army that's already extremely random, you really don't want your rare choices to be heavily luck based as well.
It's true. I watched a buddy's Troll fail stupid tests every turn one game. I didn't mind, because it gave me the ability toshoot other things instead, but I imagine it's a big liability.
I dislike trolls because stupidity is too much of a liability. You either have to baby sit them with a character or your general, which dramatically limits your tactical flexibility, or you have to deal with them being useless half the time. In an army that's already extremely random, you really don't want your rare choices to be heavily luck based as well.
It's true. I watched a buddy's Troll fail stupid tests every turn one game. I didn't mind, because it gave me the ability toshoot other things instead, but I imagine it's a big liability.
One use I have seen them perform pretty well is to guard your general's rear against flyers. Especially dragons, who really hate to be charged in combat ever. Since dragons and other flyers are such a control piece, having a reliable (since, i mean, the only place the trolls are gonna go is your rear, so they can be pretty well relied on to do their job there) and pretty powerful rear guard for your high power stuff is nice.
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AlazullYour body is not a temple, it's an amusement park.Enjoy the ride.Registered Userregular
I always do the spear and shield combo just cause it t doesn't really matter what you give them they will die no matter what.:D
Well, I believe that it costs an extra point for the spear and shield, no?
Even if it doesn't, you're still trading on an extra point of armor (sure, 5+ may not be anything to brag about buy it keeps them alive somewhat) versus having five more extremely shitty attacks to the front.
If it does cost extra, you could probably invest the points into getting more goblins or if their night gobbos nets and fanatics. Something to realize about gobbos of any sort is that their primary function is cheap CR and to flood the board with numbers.
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User name Alazull on Steam, PSN, Nintenders, Epic, etc.
If I was going to play any other army (aside from VC) it would be Greenskins. Always loved the way they looked, and it would DEFINITELY be a change of pace.
Rule of thumb for cannon fodder units like gobbos is to give them as little equipment as possible, since the larger the unit is the less your point expenditure actually buys. IE, with a unit of spearmen, the points you spend giving the 3rd and 4th rank spears only comes into play when the unit has taken heavy casualties, and as such are generally wasted.
Your unit of 40 ws2, st3 guys is there to block for your valuable units, and possibly get flank attacks to deny ranks, an extra 5 attacks when not charging isn't worth the 30+ points you're paying.
He's supposed to be an oldblood on a cold one with the enchanted shield and the blade of realities (the sword on his belt). This is also only the second or third model I've tried to highlight.
He's supposed to be an oldblood on a cold one with the enchanted shield and the blade of realities (the sword on his belt). This is also only the second or third model I've tried to highlight.
He looks really good man. The only things I would say are that the cloak should provide a counterpoint. Right now you have a lot of cool colors and I think a brighter color would give it some nice contrast. Not red, but perhaps a warm green? Also, I would like that base to be welcomed to the jungle. As in, you should make it look like jungle underbrush somehow. It's already the best thing you've ever painted, so congrats man.
I forgot I don't have a Bartertown account, so I'll get one tomorrow and look at your delfs.
Alazull on
User name Alazull on Steam, PSN, Nintenders, Epic, etc.
So today I have everything purchased I need for my Empire army. (I may cut the steam tank if I don't like playing with it in the future in exchange for greatswords and more militia. But for now I'm done!)
I have my outriders and ten handgunners completely done. Then I just need to do the bases on ten state troops and two wizards. Then I have this to paint:
-About 50% of a steam tank (wheels, one side, detail on the front, detail on the other side)
-40 state troops
-10 handgunners
-14 flagellants
-20 militia
-most of a mortar
-six crewmen
-five pistolliers
How should I retain my sanity? Will assembly line painting or painting each model work better? and why are some of the state troops so ugly?
So today I have everything purchased I need for my Empire army. (I may cut the steam tank if I don't like playing with it in the future in exchange for greatswords and more militia. But for now I'm done!)
I have my outriders and ten handgunners completely done. Then I just need to do the bases on ten state troops and two wizards. Then I have this to paint:
-About 50% of a steam tank (wheels, one side, detail on the front, detail on the other side)
-40 state troops
-10 handgunners
-14 flagellants
-20 militia
-most of a mortar
-six crewmen
-five pistolliers
How should I retain my sanity? Will assembly line painting or painting each model work better? and why are some of the state troops so ugly?
I would paint complete viable armies in smaller parts. Like say 500, 750, 1000 pts etc. That way you can actually play the game which probably means you realise what troops you want to paint next and can look forward to fielding them.
How should I retain my sanity? Will assembly line painting or painting each model work better? and why are some of the state troops so ugly?
What keeps me sane is mixing it up. I usually focus on a specific unit of troops, with a few character models or siege weps on the side. That way, if I'm doing assembly line work or I simply get tired of painting the same wolf pelt over and again, I can switch it up to keep things fun.
Having high-quality models is important to me, as is having a finished army, but painting is a hobby...it's all about fun. There's no "right" way to do it, so just do whatever it takes to keep you coming back to your miniatures.
Looking forward to seeing your army! Even if their crotches give me an inferiority complex...
EDIT: If you haven't already, stop by The Art of War thread. It's a great resource for new and skilled painters alike, and a good spot for inspiration and tips.
Thanks for the advice. I've decided on assembly line, since when you're painting big blocks every single detail doesnt' need to be 100% perfect. And I'll hopefully have some pics up tonight or tomorrow
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PiptheFairFrequently not in boats.Registered Userregular
Uh.... I assume since you asked it's really low or really high.. and I assume since Pip is this upset about it, i'm gonna go with really low, so... 250?
Also, "7 Str 7 ASF WS8 Hatred attacks, ITP, T5, 1+ AS 5+ Ward, I5, LD 9, 3 Wounds".... what the fuck?
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PiptheFairFrequently not in boats.Registered Userregular
edited June 2009
he is
4 8 1 5 5 3 5 7 9
weapon gives 2 s and ASF
armor is 1+ 5+ ward
blorcs unit he joins is hatred all and ITP
for 375
price is not terrible but god he is a horrifying model easily worth 450
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PiptheFairFrequently not in boats.Registered Userregular
edited June 2009
in fact, all the orc characters are really pretty good
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General NemoThe Mighty ShameChurch for DogsRegistered Userregular
Posts
Remember that Black Orcs have the Armed To Da Teef rule, so they can change weapons between games to be more versatile - giving them shields can help them get up the board without getting shot down, giving them double choppas will help them kill better once they're up there.
Cutting a war machine or two and replacing them with shamans might help. I'm also not a big fan of spider riders, personally.
EDIT: I disagree with taking a rank off the goblins. I roll with two big blocks of 40 goblins and it means that they never run due to panic, which is good because of their low leadership and triggering other goblin panic tests.
This is probably a personal preference thing, I'm guessing. It depends what you want your goblins to accomplish. If you just want them to eject fanatics and maybe redirect 1 charge before being cut down, I'd run small units. If you want them to try tarpitting something, and holding some flanks or lasting more than 1 or 2 rounds of combat, then you're definitely right about big units.
WAIT ARE YOU SERIOUS
Yes. At the beginning of any given combat they may choose what they wish to use in that ensuing combat. Between combats they can use shields for the protectyness from the shooteyness. But yeah, they can choose greatweapons as they charge into combat, and if they win that combat and overrun into something else, they can just decide to use dual choppas or whatever. Once they pick their weapon, they're stuck with it for the duration of that particular combat, just as any other unit is, but they are considered to carry all the weapon times allowed for them at all times.
Ahhhh I've been doing it wrong and no one ever corrected me because no one at my store plays Orcs and Goblins
Point for point maybe, but in the O&G army having a unit that is 100% reliable is worth a few extra points.
Something is wrong here, now I'm sure you could have gotten lucky but were you remembering that your ld 10 giant is stubborn? No matter what the combat situation is giants only flee on a 11-12, so I find it pretty unlikely that your giant was broken in your first game.
A fast tough stubborn unit is incredible for the points. 205 is a large chunk, but it's by far the best rare slot in the army.
LoL: BunyipAristocrat
doom divers
also, troll should not be scoffed at
Regen is really hard to account for and vomit bones you if you rely on a huge armor save.
Twitch | Blizzard: Ianator#1479 | 3DS: Ianator - 1779 2336 5317 | FFXIV: Iana Ateliere (NA Sarg)
Backlog Challenge List
Twitch | Blizzard: Ianator#1479 | 3DS: Ianator - 1779 2336 5317 | FFXIV: Iana Ateliere (NA Sarg)
Backlog Challenge List
LoL: BunyipAristocrat
It's true. I watched a buddy's Troll fail stupid tests every turn one game. I didn't mind, because it gave me the ability toshoot other things instead, but I imagine it's a big liability.
One use I have seen them perform pretty well is to guard your general's rear against flyers. Especially dragons, who really hate to be charged in combat ever. Since dragons and other flyers are such a control piece, having a reliable (since, i mean, the only place the trolls are gonna go is your rear, so they can be pretty well relied on to do their job there) and pretty powerful rear guard for your high power stuff is nice.
Well, I believe that it costs an extra point for the spear and shield, no?
Even if it doesn't, you're still trading on an extra point of armor (sure, 5+ may not be anything to brag about buy it keeps them alive somewhat) versus having five more extremely shitty attacks to the front.
If it does cost extra, you could probably invest the points into getting more goblins or if their night gobbos nets and fanatics. Something to realize about gobbos of any sort is that their primary function is cheap CR and to flood the board with numbers.
Your unit of 40 ws2, st3 guys is there to block for your valuable units, and possibly get flank attacks to deny ranks, an extra 5 attacks when not charging isn't worth the 30+ points you're paying.
LoL: BunyipAristocrat
He's supposed to be an oldblood on a cold one with the enchanted shield and the blade of realities (the sword on his belt). This is also only the second or third model I've tried to highlight.
Also, for Alazull, here's my dark elf army before its gone: http://www.bartertown.com/trading/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=88216
LoL: BunyipAristocrat
Repressed! I'm being repressed! j/k spoilered...
He looks really good man. The only things I would say are that the cloak should provide a counterpoint. Right now you have a lot of cool colors and I think a brighter color would give it some nice contrast. Not red, but perhaps a warm green? Also, I would like that base to be welcomed to the jungle. As in, you should make it look like jungle underbrush somehow. It's already the best thing you've ever painted, so congrats man.
I forgot I don't have a Bartertown account, so I'll get one tomorrow and look at your delfs.
I have my outriders and ten handgunners completely done. Then I just need to do the bases on ten state troops and two wizards. Then I have this to paint:
-About 50% of a steam tank (wheels, one side, detail on the front, detail on the other side)
-40 state troops
-10 handgunners
-14 flagellants
-20 militia
-most of a mortar
-six crewmen
-five pistolliers
How should I retain my sanity? Will assembly line painting or painting each model work better? and why are some of the state troops so ugly?
I would paint complete viable armies in smaller parts. Like say 500, 750, 1000 pts etc. That way you can actually play the game which probably means you realise what troops you want to paint next and can look forward to fielding them.
What keeps me sane is mixing it up. I usually focus on a specific unit of troops, with a few character models or siege weps on the side. That way, if I'm doing assembly line work or I simply get tired of painting the same wolf pelt over and again, I can switch it up to keep things fun.
Having high-quality models is important to me, as is having a finished army, but painting is a hobby...it's all about fun. There's no "right" way to do it, so just do whatever it takes to keep you coming back to your miniatures.
Looking forward to seeing your army! Even if their crotches give me an inferiority complex...
EDIT: If you haven't already, stop by The Art of War thread. It's a great resource for new and skilled painters alike, and a good spot for inspiration and tips.
first time I actually looked at his character
what the fuck
Vent your frustrations, Pip. Tell me just what the fuck.
How many points do you think he is?
Also, "7 Str 7 ASF WS8 Hatred attacks, ITP, T5, 1+ AS 5+ Ward, I5, LD 9, 3 Wounds".... what the fuck?
4 8 1 5 5 3 5 7 9
weapon gives 2 s and ASF
armor is 1+ 5+ ward
blorcs unit he joins is hatred all and ITP
for 375
price is not terrible but god he is a horrifying model easily worth 450