I have yet to see a karma "win" a game for a team, as in, I've seen fed to shit karma's, and she still lost horribly, because she is karma. Not to say shes bad, but shes a support champ, plain and simple, why even compare her to the all mighty sion.
I've done it. She can only carry so much fail due to her mechanics, but she is an absolutely great support for the a strong, aggressive player on a team to play. I generally end up zoning my lane opponent out very early, and late game throw around gigantic AOE shields for 700 damage / shieldings (on Galio? ).
I think she's a perfect mix of individual utility and team utility. She's legitimately dangerous on her own if well played, and can have a very powerful effect on a team fight. I just wish her ult went down a couple seconds in CD from level 1 -> 30 with CDR, particularly with all the CDR nerfs, which were completely unnecessary.
"If a cherry pie filled cape is wrong, I don't want to be right.
I'm dead serious."
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SpectrumArcher of InfernoChaldea Rec RoomRegistered Userregular
edited February 2011
I kinda feel bad for the team I just played, but it was in Ranked and goddamn does a win feel good right about now.
Level 1 in the duo lane.
Anivia lands Flash Frost on Sona. Autoattacks. Backs off.
Anivia lands Flash Frost on Sona. Autoattacks. Cho'Gath (me) lands Rupture on Sona. Ignite. Dead.
It went pretty down hill from there. Killed Nasus before Sona made it back, started doing drive by tower dives on Sona once I got Feast. She was 6 at one point while we were 9 in the duo.
Spectrum on
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TIFunkaliciousKicking back inNebraskaRegistered Userregular
edited February 2011
Morgana has got to be one of the strongest level 6 champions in the game, when I have my ult, ignite, level 2 Q and level 3 W I feel like I can instakill any other reasonable solo champ off of a landed binding
Maokai looks like a lot of fun. Seems like a good champion to just charge into the middle of the the enemies and cause some chaos. And being able to check a bush by throwing a sapling is nice.
Morgana has got to be one of the strongest level 6 champions in the game, when I have my ult, ignite, level 2 Q and level 3 W I feel like I can instakill any other reasonable solo champ off of a landed binding
Trist can do that without having to land a skillshot (unless you consider her jump one, which I think it's a lot easier to hit than binding at least)
Of course if they don't have escape summoners up maybe Morgana could flash ult into stun into pool + binding. If they have ghost/flash or an innate blink/dash skill they can probably just break the ult though
OremLK on
My zombie survival life simulator They Don't Sleep is out now on Steam if you want to check it out.
Is it bad my endgame Mordekaiser is like a Venus flytrap for melees?
Just went 15/10/17 in a 4v5 (we were down to 3 for about 10 minutes) and every time their Panth or WW would attack me, I'd pop my shield and laugh as they couldn't run away fast enough to escape the slow pounding I gave them.
Game went to over an hour. Jax and I kept killing their team every time they tried to finish it.
Item build ended up pretty epic. FoN/Randuins/Merc tread/Thornmail/GA/ Rylais
I'm not sure why they bothered attacking me anymore.
And yes, we eventually came back and won. Gangplank/Jax/Mordekaiser wiping Janna/WW/panth/Malhazar/Veigar.
P.S. Highlight of the game was making Veigar try to ult me to escape. I had 6AP at the time. It did a grand total of 52 damage.
Moridin889 on
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Alfred J. Kwakis it because you were insultedwhen I insulted your hair?Registered Userregular
edited February 2011
Man, if you fall behind with Katrina, it's almost impossible to catch up again. And I have yet to learn how to get out of a team fight alive (if the enemy team is half-way competent).
Man, if you fall behind with Katrina, it's almost impossible to catch up again. And I have yet to learn how to get out of a team fight alive (if the enemy team is half-way competent).
This is true of a lot of champs. Like, I got stuck 3 levels behind with Renekton in a match today (absolutely terrible lane choice by me, and I stubbornly refused to switch out. Big, big mistake), and just could not catch back up. Really sucked.
Morgana has got to be one of the strongest level 6 champions in the game, when I have my ult, ignite, level 2 Q and level 3 W I feel like I can instakill any other reasonable solo champ off of a landed binding
Trist can do that without having to land a skillshot (unless you consider her jump one, which I think it's a lot easier to hit than binding at least)
Of course if they don't have escape summoners up maybe Morgana could flash ult into stun into pool + binding. If they have ghost/flash or an innate blink/dash skill they can probably just break the ult though
Morgana does it in a 1v2 for a double kill;oP
zeeny on
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Liquid GhostDO YOU HEAR THE VOICES, TOO?!Registered Userregular
Yeah, falling behind on any champion versus any other champion is really bad. I suppose the ones who can handle it best are strong late game champions who can tower hug and farm from a distance (Kog'Maw, Sivir, Ashe?).
The bigger problem with Kat is that Kat is not a very good champion and is easy to shut down late game even if she's fed, let alone if she's behind.
Actually now that I think about it, Kat has a lot of similarities to Pantheon; strong laning phase, good early to mid game... except she doesn't have a global ultimate. Can you imagine how shitty Pantheon would be without Panth drop? Hell HSS is almost as good as Kat's ultimate and suffers from the same problems late game as a main damage ability.
OremLK on
My zombie survival life simulator They Don't Sleep is out now on Steam if you want to check it out.
Yeah, falling behind on any champion versus any other champion is really bad. I suppose the ones who can handle it best are strong late game champions who can tower hug and farm from a distance (Kog'Maw, Sivir, Ashe?).
The bigger problem with Kat is that Kat is not a very good champion and is easy to shut down late game even if she's fed, let alone if she's behind.
Actually now that I think about it, Kat has a lot of similarities to Pantheon; strong laning phase, good early to mid game... except she doesn't have a global ultimate. Can you imagine how shitty Pantheon would be without Panth drop? Hell HSS is almost as good as Kat's ultimate and suffers from the same problems late game as a main damage ability.
No, HSS is not nearly as good as Kat's ult, which does more damage, is magic damage, scales off of both AP & AD, has more range and hits people whether they are in front of her, behind her, sitting in a bush next to her, etc.
Kat also has a get out of jail free card she can use after her ult; Panth's ult > Aegis > HSS combo, while also awesome, must succeed; if it doesn't, Panth is a sitting duck.
Kat using AP means she gets a ton of durability by default while Panth pays extra for his; she also gets access to things like Zhonya's protection in the late game. She a reasonably short CD Q that, while not particularly threating in the early game, becomes an absolute multi-target bane in the late game. She has a short recharge W that arguably provides much better protection than Panth's passive, and she has no mana bar or energy bar to worry about.
Her passive is kinda 'meh', but can cause late-game snowballing by chaining Shunpo > Ult combos into enemies that are trying to disengage (particularly menacing if you picked-up Rylai's and/or have a Gunblade active ready.
Kat is not a bad champ. She's tough to use effectively, and she doesn't have a 'lulz I win' button, but I don't see the 'ZOMG SO SUX' problems people complain about.
Those are really quibbles in my opinion. The basic point remains: Kat is entirely too squishy, her damage is too easy to interrupt, and she brings too little else to the team. These are the same reasons people call Pantheon an early-to-mid game champion, which is the core of the comparison, and I think it's accurate.
She's not the most underpowered champion in the game, but I'd definitely put her in the lower half by a pretty significant margin, and I don't think she's very viable for competitive play. It's very difficult for her to be effective if people play correctly against her; her strength in a solo lane isn't enough to make up for her deficiencies elsewhere. There are plenty of champions who can go even with her or even beat her in lane who are more useful later in the game.
Now granted, if you play at a low level, any champion is viable because there are so many freaking mistakes. In my current Elo bracket she can be very effective because she's a pretty god damn good pubstomper. I still wouldn't bother learning her personally, though, because I'd rather get good with champions I can actually use at higher levels of play.
OremLK on
My zombie survival life simulator They Don't Sleep is out now on Steam if you want to check it out.
She's not even squishy at all. She was squishy, back when you just wanted to buy 2-3 Bloodthirsters on her, but now you can build all the tanky AP items you like on her instead. It's probably not optimal, but lately I've been going Rod of Ages > Rylai's > Gunblade. You'll have some of the highest HP on your team, awesome scaling armor per level (Kat starts at 14.75 Armor and gains +4 per level) and level 5 W gives her an extra 35% damage resistance (just outright damage resistance, fuck your damage type) on top of that for 3 seconds after Shunpo. Oh, and Spell Vamp + Lifesteal. Oh, and a get out of jail free card.
Kat's got issues, but survivability isn't one.
Her damage isn't easy to interrupt, either, unless you're playing stupid and just expect Shunpo > R to win you the game. It won't. You either:
- Wait until the enagagement starts and people start blowing their CC, which they will, to try and shut down your casters & carries - after which you Shunpo in from a bush or side lane and hit R.
or
- Participate in the initial engagement to start with by using autos, Q, and nuking with Shunpo (using KI to gain the damage reduction benefit), kite people out, and after they try to contain you with their CC you hit R while their stuff is on CD. Unless their whole team focuses you (big mistake; you have too much HP & resistance to insta-gib and your carries / mages will annhilate them while they take you down), you should be in absolutely golden shape.
I still wouldn't bother learning her personally, though...
Yeah, so you're speaking from ignorance.
The order in which you're supposed to do things is usually: learn about it, then form your opinion about it.
The Ender on
With Love and Courage
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reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
edited February 2011
It seems that the only champ I do well with as of late is Heimerdinger.
Got around to watching the new bot game riot recorded and I am actually moderately excited about it. It will provide a fairly more exciting venue for trying new champs or builds than the current custom game bots do. They don't look seriously challenging at all, but ganks and roaming and such will make it more interesting.
Guys, I have a question about jungle Nunu's lvl 2 gank route and starting items.
Do you consume blue wraith/do wraiths before red or do you just wait for red?
What items do you start with? I tried boots & health crystal, both leave me way too low for a comfortable gank.
Is a cloth armor + pots the only way to gank lvl 2 with nunu?
You buy Rod of Ages on a champion without mana? Yuck. That's awful.
I think I might have learned a few things about how to counter Katarina in the dozens, if not hundred-plus games I've played with/against her. You understand that it doesn't take hard crowd control to interrupt her ultimate, right? That's why I said when people play CORRECTLY she is not a real threat. I mean, there are lots of champions who have multiple abilities which can interrupt Kat's ulti instantly. She's so incredibly easy to counterpick then just save some low-priority ability to interrupt her damage. You can't have a solo lane carry's damage almost completely wrecked by one Alistar Headbutt. That's just awful. And yeah, her other abilities just don't scale very well. That's down to the numbers, which are lackluster at best.
I also like how the majority of your post was devoted to disproving the notion that she's squishy, and the build you listed isn't even that tanky. But I digress, killing Katarina isn't even that important, you just have to make sure you don't let her get a good ult off, which is retardedly easy to do if your team had half a brain in champion select.
OremLK on
My zombie survival life simulator They Don't Sleep is out now on Steam if you want to check it out.
Is it bad my endgame Mordekaiser is like a Venus flytrap for melees?
Just went 15/10/17 in a 4v5 (we were down to 3 for about 10 minutes) and every time their Panth or WW would attack me, I'd pop my shield and laugh as they couldn't run away fast enough to escape the slow pounding I gave them.
Game went to over an hour. Jax and I kept killing their team every time they tried to finish it.
Item build ended up pretty epic. FoN/Randuins/Merc tread/Thornmail/GA/ Rylais
I'm not sure why they bothered attacking me anymore.
And yes, we eventually came back and won. Gangplank/Jax/Mordekaiser wiping Janna/WW/panth/Malhazar/Veigar.
P.S. Highlight of the game was making Veigar try to ult me to escape. I had 6AP at the time. It did a grand total of 52 damage.
Yeah, Thornmail shuts down a lot of guys. In my builds I've given up building Randuins and just get Warmogs instead. I would have picked Abyssal over GA or Rylais, but then again I usually get stuck with the tank role and just build additional Warmogs.
Fellhand on
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BethrynUnhappiness is MandatoryRegistered Userregular
edited February 2011
Maokai's kit looks interesting, so I'm going to hazard a guess that like Caitlyn and Renekton before him, the numbers will be broken on release.
So, is there any way of getting into this game as a total nubian who hasn't even played DOTA?
I liked the look of the Totalbiscuit review but I a have never seen a game so unfriendly to new players, I would be terrified of playing with a team and doing one little thing wrong as it seems pretty complex (at least in FPS you can just get by shooting mans).
Venkman90 on
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Zen VulgarityWhat a lovely day for teaSecret British ThreadRegistered Userregular
edited February 2011
Download it and play with us
It's free
Today is patch day, so it'll be down for a while
Make sure you use someone's reference thing since it'll give them bonuses
Posts
What did you type in /all afterward.
I know you said something.
Steam: Chagrin LoL: Bonhomie
I hope it involved the word "surpryze"
we had 4 man queued and i think we were saying more stuff to the nunu on our team than in allchat
his name was PrettyPinkCloud so we started calling him nimbus, we were always berating him
"WHAT THE FUCK NIMBUS, WHAT ARE YOU DOING"
"GET A BANSHEE'S VEIL NIMBUS FUCK THEY HAVE AN ALISTAR"
and he laned with our blitzcrank so whenever he wanted a grab he'd go "ARM"
"ARM"
"ARM"
edit: srice i'm really taking a liking to your bad, bad jokes
"ARM"
Yeah. How to make your team love you.
Yesssssss.
Steam: Chagrin LoL: Bonhomie
However the majority of the bad jokes I make I come up with on the spot
I've done it. She can only carry so much fail due to her mechanics, but she is an absolutely great support for the a strong, aggressive player on a team to play. I generally end up zoning my lane opponent out very early, and late game throw around gigantic AOE shields for 700 damage / shieldings (on Galio?
I think she's a perfect mix of individual utility and team utility. She's legitimately dangerous on her own if well played, and can have a very powerful effect on a team fight. I just wish her ult went down a couple seconds in CD from level 1 -> 30 with CDR, particularly with all the CDR nerfs, which were completely unnecessary.
http://www.youtube.com/user/RiotGamesInc
Sapling toss is going to be soooo annoying. Little mobile bombs you'll easily miss in teamfights.
Nemlock for online gaming
when swainin
their whole respawning
cause i turned into a giant birday
Cause I'm a giant birday
cause I'm a giant birday
cause i'm a giaant
cause i'm a giant birday
saplings seem fun
And I'm excited for Amumu buffs!
I'm dead serious."
Level 1 in the duo lane.
Anivia lands Flash Frost on Sona. Autoattacks. Backs off.
Anivia lands Flash Frost on Sona. Autoattacks. Cho'Gath (me) lands Rupture on Sona. Ignite. Dead.
It went pretty down hill from there. Killed Nasus before Sona made it back, started doing drive by tower dives on Sona once I got Feast. She was 6 at one point while we were 9 in the duo.
I wanted to buy the bird and was all "I'm sure the mana increase won't be too bad" but ffffffffffffff
I'll still probably get the bird.
Trist can do that without having to land a skillshot (unless you consider her jump one, which I think it's a lot easier to hit than binding at least)
Of course if they don't have escape summoners up maybe Morgana could flash ult into stun into pool + binding. If they have ghost/flash or an innate blink/dash skill they can probably just break the ult though
Just went 15/10/17 in a 4v5 (we were down to 3 for about 10 minutes) and every time their Panth or WW would attack me, I'd pop my shield and laugh as they couldn't run away fast enough to escape the slow pounding I gave them.
Game went to over an hour. Jax and I kept killing their team every time they tried to finish it.
Item build ended up pretty epic. FoN/Randuins/Merc tread/Thornmail/GA/ Rylais
I'm not sure why they bothered attacking me anymore.
And yes, we eventually came back and won. Gangplank/Jax/Mordekaiser wiping Janna/WW/panth/Malhazar/Veigar.
P.S. Highlight of the game was making Veigar try to ult me to escape. I had 6AP at the time. It did a grand total of 52 damage.
I DO NOT SIT. I AM NOT VERY, HM. BENDABLE.
Steam
This is true of a lot of champs. Like, I got stuck 3 levels behind with Renekton in a match today (absolutely terrible lane choice by me, and I stubbornly refused to switch out. Big, big mistake), and just could not catch back up. Really sucked.
Morgana does it in a 1v2 for a double kill;oP
I also discovered that Timmy apparently never fell down a well. Huh.
The bigger problem with Kat is that Kat is not a very good champion and is easy to shut down late game even if she's fed, let alone if she's behind.
Actually now that I think about it, Kat has a lot of similarities to Pantheon; strong laning phase, good early to mid game... except she doesn't have a global ultimate. Can you imagine how shitty Pantheon would be without Panth drop? Hell HSS is almost as good as Kat's ultimate and suffers from the same problems late game as a main damage ability.
No, HSS is not nearly as good as Kat's ult, which does more damage, is magic damage, scales off of both AP & AD, has more range and hits people whether they are in front of her, behind her, sitting in a bush next to her, etc.
Kat also has a get out of jail free card she can use after her ult; Panth's ult > Aegis > HSS combo, while also awesome, must succeed; if it doesn't, Panth is a sitting duck.
Kat using AP means she gets a ton of durability by default while Panth pays extra for his; she also gets access to things like Zhonya's protection in the late game. She a reasonably short CD Q that, while not particularly threating in the early game, becomes an absolute multi-target bane in the late game. She has a short recharge W that arguably provides much better protection than Panth's passive, and she has no mana bar or energy bar to worry about.
Her passive is kinda 'meh', but can cause late-game snowballing by chaining Shunpo > Ult combos into enemies that are trying to disengage (particularly menacing if you picked-up Rylai's and/or have a Gunblade active ready.
Kat is not a bad champ. She's tough to use effectively, and she doesn't have a 'lulz I win' button, but I don't see the 'ZOMG SO SUX' problems people complain about.
She's not the most underpowered champion in the game, but I'd definitely put her in the lower half by a pretty significant margin, and I don't think she's very viable for competitive play. It's very difficult for her to be effective if people play correctly against her; her strength in a solo lane isn't enough to make up for her deficiencies elsewhere. There are plenty of champions who can go even with her or even beat her in lane who are more useful later in the game.
Now granted, if you play at a low level, any champion is viable because there are so many freaking mistakes. In my current Elo bracket she can be very effective because she's a pretty god damn good pubstomper. I still wouldn't bother learning her personally, though, because I'd rather get good with champions I can actually use at higher levels of play.
She's not even squishy at all. She was squishy, back when you just wanted to buy 2-3 Bloodthirsters on her, but now you can build all the tanky AP items you like on her instead. It's probably not optimal, but lately I've been going Rod of Ages > Rylai's > Gunblade. You'll have some of the highest HP on your team, awesome scaling armor per level (Kat starts at 14.75 Armor and gains +4 per level) and level 5 W gives her an extra 35% damage resistance (just outright damage resistance, fuck your damage type) on top of that for 3 seconds after Shunpo. Oh, and Spell Vamp + Lifesteal. Oh, and a get out of jail free card.
Kat's got issues, but survivability isn't one.
Her damage isn't easy to interrupt, either, unless you're playing stupid and just expect Shunpo > R to win you the game. It won't. You either:
- Wait until the enagagement starts and people start blowing their CC, which they will, to try and shut down your casters & carries - after which you Shunpo in from a bush or side lane and hit R.
or
- Participate in the initial engagement to start with by using autos, Q, and nuking with Shunpo (using KI to gain the damage reduction benefit), kite people out, and after they try to contain you with their CC you hit R while their stuff is on CD. Unless their whole team focuses you (big mistake; you have too much HP & resistance to insta-gib and your carries / mages will annhilate them while they take you down), you should be in absolutely golden shape.
Yeah, so you're speaking from ignorance.
The order in which you're supposed to do things is usually: learn about it, then form your opinion about it.
Which is fine because he's tons of fun.
LoL: failboattootoot
Do you consume blue wraith/do wraiths before red or do you just wait for red?
What items do you start with? I tried boots & health crystal, both leave me way too low for a comfortable gank.
Is a cloth armor + pots the only way to gank lvl 2 with nunu?
I think I might have learned a few things about how to counter Katarina in the dozens, if not hundred-plus games I've played with/against her. You understand that it doesn't take hard crowd control to interrupt her ultimate, right? That's why I said when people play CORRECTLY she is not a real threat. I mean, there are lots of champions who have multiple abilities which can interrupt Kat's ulti instantly. She's so incredibly easy to counterpick then just save some low-priority ability to interrupt her damage. You can't have a solo lane carry's damage almost completely wrecked by one Alistar Headbutt. That's just awful. And yeah, her other abilities just don't scale very well. That's down to the numbers, which are lackluster at best.
I also like how the majority of your post was devoted to disproving the notion that she's squishy, and the build you listed isn't even that tanky. But I digress, killing Katarina isn't even that important, you just have to make sure you don't let her get a good ult off, which is retardedly easy to do if your team had half a brain in champion select.
Yeah, Thornmail shuts down a lot of guys. In my builds I've given up building Randuins and just get Warmogs instead. I would have picked Abyssal over GA or Rylais, but then again I usually get stuck with the tank role and just build additional Warmogs.
I liked the look of the Totalbiscuit review but I a have never seen a game so unfriendly to new players, I would be terrified of playing with a team and doing one little thing wrong as it seems pretty complex (at least in FPS you can just get by shooting mans).
It's free
Today is patch day, so it'll be down for a while
Make sure you use someone's reference thing since it'll give them bonuses