I've been at work a lot lately and missed a large chunk of this thread since its moving fairly quickly. I see from the thread title that at least the folks here at PA are recommending that PSN users get a replacement credit card.
Has Sony officially said anything other than CC info "might" be compromised? Per the email that went out, it sounds as though it was not known to be compromised but that they were giving the information to people just to play it safe.
Has something changed on this? I mean, I know that replacing your CC is sound advice and all, but I also don't really buy a lot of the alarmist stuff and a few random anecdotes about people having their CC used to buy goats in india or saudi arabian plane tickets sounds a bit far fetched to me.
there
that is a screencap from my online statement
that is everything i can do at this point to try to show people that this is a thing short of driving to their homes with a hardcopy
i've been severely if temporarily inconvenienced by this and being patted on the head and told it's nothing is incredibly shitty
what possible shady motive could i or anyone have in cautioning people that their card information may have been compromised and that they should probably address it, because i'm at a total fucking loss
I don't think anyone has a problem with what you have posted or what you're warning.
The dude just wanted to know if there was any Sony updates, or official reports on the mess.
It's cool that you have shared, and it's obvious that you are a victim of something, it's just that we have no idea that it's related, or proof that Hackers have everyone's credit card numbers.
We are more likely to verify that if Sony informs us.
Yeah, this is exactly right. I'm not saying that your CC wasn't compromised and that some asshat didn't use your card to purchase a saudi airline ticket. But that also doesn't mean it isn't coincidence.
This happened and here is why. Wait, are you sure?
This happened and here is why and this is what YOU should do about it. This is totally different.
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Casually HardcoreOnce an Asshole. Trying to be better.Registered Userregular
edited April 2011
Wow, I remember the days when Microsoft used to be called 'Micro$oft' and everyone hated them.
Now everyone is like, 'I wish the 360 had a bluray player'.
Its funny--my fiance will let me spend hundreds of dollars on board games, or on a psp go.. but if I want to get a 360? She will fight to the death. :P
A blu-ray player being built in would probably lessen that a bit.
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Olivawgood name, isn't it?the foot of mt fujiRegistered Userregular
I've been at work a lot lately and missed a large chunk of this thread since its moving fairly quickly. I see from the thread title that at least the folks here at PA are recommending that PSN users get a replacement credit card.
Has Sony officially said anything other than CC info "might" be compromised? Per the email that went out, it sounds as though it was not known to be compromised but that they were giving the information to people just to play it safe.
Has something changed on this? I mean, I know that replacing your CC is sound advice and all, but I also don't really buy a lot of the alarmist stuff and a few random anecdotes about people having their CC used to buy goats in india or saudi arabian plane tickets sounds a bit far fetched to me.
there
that is a screencap from my online statement
that is everything i can do at this point to try to show people that this is a thing short of driving to their homes with a hardcopy
i've been severely if temporarily inconvenienced by this and being patted on the head and told it's nothing is incredibly shitty
what possible shady motive could i or anyone have in cautioning people that their card information may have been compromised and that they should probably address it, because i'm at a total fucking loss
I don't think anyone has a problem with what you have posted or what you're warning.
The dude just wanted to know if there was any Sony updates, or official reports on the mess.
It's cool that you have shared, and it's obvious that you are a victim of something, it's just that we have no idea that it's related, or proof that Hackers have everyone's credit card numbers.
We are more likely to verify that if Sony informs us.
Yeah, this is exactly right. I'm not saying that your CC wasn't compromised and that some asshat didn't use your card to purchase a saudi airline ticket.
"Far-fetched" apparently means something to you that it doesn't to me then I guess
Moving on
But that also doesn't mean it isn't coincidence.
I never, in any of my posts, ruled out it being coincidental, and in fact took care in my very first post on the matter to spell that out
But given that other people with PS3s have since in this very thread recounted very similar events in a very close timeframe I'd say you have to be extraordinarily naive to pass on the opportunity to prevent the same from happening
proyebatGARY WAS HEREASH IS A LOSERRegistered Userregular
edited April 2011
I see so much hate from you people.
I'm not getting how people can dismiss the amount of fraud charges as normal. On SE++ I'm seeing the amount of personal experiences that pours through that section on a day-to-day basis. I read about people asking for relationship advice on H/A, the trouble people have with coworkers in the SE++ job thread, but I have yet to see someone talk about some jackass putting fraud charges on anyone's credit/debit accounts up until this Sony fiasco.
Not to anyone specific, but what makes this incident anything more or less important to talk about, than say what other shitty thing happened to you today?
Mostly because there was no evidence credit card information was stolen, credit card companies have said they haven't noticed any unusual or suspicious activity and most people don't bother to check for unusual charges anyway until something like this happens and everybody makes a big deal about actually checking to see if you have any fraudulent charges (which they should be doing anyways.) Credit card fraud\identity theft happens all the time and people will naturally start noticing it more when it gets this much public attention, and there is no proof that any of these charges people are posting are related to the PSN breach.
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Casually HardcoreOnce an Asshole. Trying to be better.Registered Userregular
edited April 2011
You know what they say?
Better safe then sorry.
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MaddocI'm Bobbin Threadbare, are you my mother?Registered Userregular
Mostly because there was no evidence credit card information was stolen, credit card companies have said they haven't noticed any unusual or suspicious activity and most people don't bother to check for unusual charges anyway until something like this happens and everybody makes a big deal about actually checking to see if you have any fraudulent charges (which they should be doing anyways.) Credit card fraud\identity theft happens all the time and people will naturally start noticing it more when it gets this much public attention, and there is no proof that any of these charges people are posting are related to the PSN breach.
People really need to stop saying "there's no evidence credit card information was stolen" as though it is proof of anything.
The fact that it's being bandied about so much as defense against the possibility of credit fraud related to the PSN event is just proof that it's being taken the wrong way. It is effectively meaningless information, all Sony said was, in effect, "We don't know if they stole credit information, but we also don't know if they didn't steal credit information"
And yet, all these claims are coming out specifically because the PSN thing is such a deal. Okay dude who got a saudi airline charge, would you have ever mentioned it around here otherwise? I can't say I ever bother to bring up my financial woes. Nor are people going to go out of their way to dig up past grievances.
What will people do? Flock to these threads and make statements. Because its the 'thing to do' right now. Everyone else is, so why not chime in?
I never discuss my bank account with anyone. If I got frauded at any other time I might tell my room mate, change my card and move on. If it happened now? Sure, Id be here saying Zomg me too!
People need to realize roughly.. what, 100,000 people a day get scammed on Mastercards network daily (from some brochure of theirs.). It happens, a really damn lot. I bet 10 people a day on the PA forum get hit for some amount or another. A large number of people just happen to be gamers. The same as a lot of these sites reports are coming out of.
I dunno, it seems rather alarmist to me. Simple as that. Am I keeping an eye open? Sure. Am I going to believe it when the issuer of my card(mastercard) goes on public record as saying there has been no noticeably related invidences? Probably. They have mo to lose than Sony.
Mostly because there was no evidence credit card information was stolen, credit card companies have said they haven't noticed any unusual or suspicious activity and most people don't bother to check for unusual charges anyway until something like this happens and everybody makes a big deal about actually checking to see if you have any fraudulent charges (which they should be doing anyways.) Credit card fraud\identity theft happens all the time and people will naturally start noticing it more when it gets this much public attention, and there is no proof that any of these charges people are posting are related to the PSN breach.
People really need to stop saying "there's no evidence credit card information was stolen" as though it is proof of anything.
The fact that it's being bandied about so much as defense against the possibility of credit fraud related to the PSN event is just proof that it's being taken the wrong way. It is effectively meaningless information, all Sony said was, in effect, "We don't know if they stole credit information, but we also don't know if they didn't steal credit information"
I sort of agree, but you can never be sure something is safe. There was no evidence that credit card information was taken after this breach, the same as there was no evidence credit card information was taken before this breach. I guess the only value that statement has is to say that credit card information was still possibly safe, rather than them confirming that it had been stolen. Making people aware of the seriousness of identity theft is important and the safeguards they can take to protect themselves is important, but saying suspicious cc charges are definitely related to the PSN breach is just fearmongering and doesn't really help anybody.
Maybe I'm just not riled up about it because when I found out, I basically said "that sucks", spent 15 minutes changing passwords and getting new credit cards sent, and didn't really think anything else of it. *shrug*
credit card companies have said they haven't noticed any unusual or suspicious activity
The article from which that was sourced went up at 8:20 PM on the 27th. I discovered my issue, which occurred earlier on the 27th, at 9:15 PM. Given how rapidly the situation has developed that may no longer be accurate. Does anyone have further confirmation that everything is fine?
And yet, all these claims are coming out specifically because the PSN thing is such a deal. Okay dude who got a saudi airline charge, would you have ever mentioned it around here otherwise? I can't say I ever bother to bring up my financial woes. Nor are people going to go out of their way to dig up past grievances.
What will people do? Flock to these threads and make statements. Because its the 'thing to do' right now. Everyone else is, so why not chime in?
I never discuss my bank account with anyone. If I got frauded at any other time I might tell my room mate, change my card and move on. If it happened now? Sure, Id be here saying Zomg me too!
People need to realize roughly.. what, 100,000 people a day get scammed on Mastercards network daily (from some brochure of theirs.). It happens, a really damn lot. I bet 10 people a day on the PA forum get hit for some amount or another. A large number of people just happen to be gamers. The same as a lot of these sites reports are coming out of.
I dunno, it seems rather alarmist to me. Simple as that. Am I keeping an eye open? Sure. Am I going to believe it when the issuer of my card(mastercard) goes on public record as saying there has been no noticeably related invidences? Probably. They have mo to lose than Sony.
I'm not the saudi arabia guy, but I pretty much asked the same thing a few minutes ago. This is G&T and the place where I see people talk about their personal day to day is SE++. This is probably the only thread on G&T that people would have reason to talk about their financial situation. If people really wanted some proof that people talk about money is not here; go read H/A and SE++ threads.
And yet, all these claims are coming out specifically because the PSN thing is such a deal. Okay dude who got a saudi airline charge, would you have ever mentioned it around here otherwise?
No, because it wouldn't have occurred at the same time a gigantic fuckoff consumer electronics company shit my data all over the internet.
You need to understand what you're asking of me here when you suggest that maybe these are unrelated. I take a minute to check my bank account before I go to bed every couple of days. I use my debit card very frequently but generally at the same places, where it's almost never out of my sight and where I've never encountered a problem before. When, suddenly, Sony has a catastrophic data failure--data which, looking at the correction they had to publish regarding CVV codes, they don't even know they asked for in the first place--and I shortly thereafter begin encountering problems, it's easier for me, mentally, to connect the dots with the huge, obvious problem right in front of me, the one that other people in the same sample group are encountering, rather than dismissing that entirely and saying, "Well, I guess the cashier at Chipotle pulled a fast one on me." I'm not going to construct a fucking conspiracy theory about my debit card in order to absolve Sony of guilt.
-Credit card fraud is sadly a fairly common occurrence that happens to a lot of people.
-77 million PSN accounts is a boatload of people.
-Ergo, there is no doubt going to be a ton of overlap between the two.
The sad thing is, you'll probably never really know if it truly was because of the PSN breach, or if you simply got the worst luck in the world.
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So correlation now equals causation? For all we know a spike in fraudulent charges may come about simply from a fear of reduced value on the part of credit thieves with previously acquired information.
Should we be cautious? Yes.
Should we start a lynch mob? I think it best to wait for the investigation first.
On a side note, I've felt that only Sega & Microsoft have done online gaming on consoles well so far. Makes sense considering they had prior experience doing online gaming for the PC (Heat.NET, Zone). I'm of the belief whoever implemented PSN had little idea what they were doing.
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I heard not a peep about marriages until this royal wedding thing. Now every forum I lurk has at least one thread gabbing about marriage in general. I never hear anything about TV until some big show or fiasco, then tv is all over the place. People like to feel important and talk 'on topic', especially if its a huge fiasco.
Id love a nice survey of how many people got scammed before this ever happened on a daily basis. When it wasn't universally 'on topic' as its pasted everywhere on the internet.
You know, it very well could be related. Or it could just be all these people coming out of the woodworks because its proven human dynamic to want to be part of a discussion, particularly a large one. As someone said, we'd be hardpressed to find out. Regardless, if the tables were encrypted in anything nearing modern variety encryption, it would take several months if not years to decrypt it. Unless Sony just happened to leave the keys kicking around in a cleartext file. Which I'm pretty sure would be a fairly valid issue they'd raise. Or the independent company investigating them would raise.
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for Sony getting ran through the dirt. They need it. I'm just not sure how much I believe all of the 'evidence' people are scraping up one way or another. Maybe I'm just hoping Sony and all the people they ared and that are involved are more professional than everyone is making them out to be.
I guess i kind of lucked up in that I haven't used a CC on PSN in at least 3 years (all retail cards since), and I had to get that card replaced last year cause someone stole the number on it. Luckily my card company caught it immediately and shut it off, calling my cell phone to verify it. I was actually amazed that they caught it that quickly. Unfortunately it was while I was on vacation, so I didnt have use of the card the whole time, but whatever.
Absolutely, correlation does not prove causation, but we are talking about dozens of independent spontaneous reports with similar MOs that are entirely consistent with the use of cards recently stolen from PSN.
It is entirely credible that many of these frauds are a direct result of the PSN attack. We might never know the truth; it'll depend on how widespread their possible use becomes. Sony's "no evidence" statement is utterly meaningless in context, and MasterCard's denial of fraudulent charges is not recent enough to take priority over other evidence.
Getting a new card issued, and / or advising others to do the same, isn't starting a lynch mob. :?
I didn't say it was.
It being in the title of the thread now will hopefully draw attention, just in case, and those people should follow such simple advice.
Also, as has been said earlier, maybe those people will be more careful with their personal security in the future.
This thread, much as I do check it for new information, has become kind of a cyclical mess. I'm pissed at Sony, and whoever is responsible for this, in equal. I want retribution from both.
I'm not trying to sound horribly entitled with that statement. I just mean that justice should be served if traceable to guilty parties, and Sony MUST do something to both apologize and offer something in recompense.
In the mean time, even if people reporting fraud incidents may not be related, they are only trying to be helpful (on these forums at least.)
Whether PSN leaks are the cause, or not, people should take the insignificant amount of time to reconsider their current personal security, and make sure they are as immune to situations like this in the future as possible.
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BarcardiAll the WizardsUnder A Rock: AfganistanRegistered Userregular
edited April 2011
I just really wish i knew what my security question for sony was. That has the potential to really fuck me over.
To be safe ive changed my passwords on just about any website that i have bought something for or used for financial information. This stuff is a massive pain in the ass.
I just really wish i knew what my security question for sony was. That has the potential to really fuck me over.
To be safe ive changed my passwords on just about any website that i have bought something for or used for financial information. This stuff is a massive pain in the ass.
Just for future reference, and I'm not addressing you personally, no one should answer those questions honestly, as they aren't difficult questions to procure the answers to through a little social engineering/google-fu.
If you can't create a custom question, and don't trust sites that will create random passwords, seriously just slam your face and hands on the keyboard in notepad as the answer.
The most annoying password that I've had to change because of this was my Steam password. Because the email address that account was linked to is dead, and to change the password you need email verification, and to change the email you need email verification, I have to go through Steam Support to change my password. Holy hell, these guys are useless. I got a copy/paste answer that did nothing for me, and then nothing for three days. Now they've reset my password but not touched my email, even though the ticket I've raised is called 'dead email address, trying to change it'.
It is incredibly frustrating and I blame it entirely on Sony for leaking my password and making me want to rush through this.
Wow, I remember the days when Microsoft used to be called 'Micro$oft' and everyone hated them.
Now everyone is like, 'I wish the 360 had a bluray player'.
Why?
The PS3 doesn't have to be connected to Sony's irrepressibly drab and awful online service to play off the shelf Blu-Ray discs.
What is ironic is, after Microsoft spent a decade trying to convince people that shit like refigerators and light switches needed to have LAN IPs, it took Sony's console to demonstrate that just because an electrical appliance can be connected to ethernet, it doesn't necessarily follow that it should be.
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dang...you mean to tell me that if the credit card fraud i experienced 3 weeks ago would have waited 2 weeks i could have blamed it on sony instead of my own stupidity??!?!?!?
Wow, I remember the days when Microsoft used to be called 'Micro$oft' and everyone hated them.
Now everyone is like, 'I wish the 360 had a bluray player'.
Why?
The PS3 doesn't have to be connected to Sony's irrepressibly drab and awful online service to play off the shelf Blu-Ray discs.
What is ironic is, after Microsoft spent a decade trying to convince people that shit like refigerators and light switches needed to have LAN IPs, it took Sony's console to demonstrate that just because an electrical appliance can be connected to ethernet, it doesn't necessarily follow that it should be.
All this 'showed' is one shouldn't trust Sony with anything complicated or important. Sony has more or less proven over the years that it is quite incapable. Generally their business success has been 50% luck and 50% who they are partnered with. All their independent attempts at doing... well, anything, have been lukewarm at best.
Id happily make my fridge a lan capable device if it was ran by.. like, the evil google empire.
dang...you mean to tell me that if the credit card fraud i experienced 3 weeks ago would have waited 2 weeks i could have blamed it on sony instead of my own stupidity??!?!?!?
Posts
Yeah, this is exactly right. I'm not saying that your CC wasn't compromised and that some asshat didn't use your card to purchase a saudi airline ticket. But that also doesn't mean it isn't coincidence.
This happened. Yes, we see it, we believe you.
This happened and here is why. Wait, are you sure?
This happened and here is why and this is what YOU should do about it. This is totally different.
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Now everyone is like, 'I wish the 360 had a bluray player'.
Man, I've always been like that.
To be fair, I own a bunch of blu-ray films, and I really dislike the Film GUI on the Playstation 2 and 3.
A blu-ray player being built in would probably lessen that a bit.
I appreciate the reference you made here!
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Moving on I never, in any of my posts, ruled out it being coincidental, and in fact took care in my very first post on the matter to spell that out
But given that other people with PS3s have since in this very thread recounted very similar events in a very close timeframe I'd say you have to be extraordinarily naive to pass on the opportunity to prevent the same from happening I'm nearly through the second one!! So good
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I'm not getting how people can dismiss the amount of fraud charges as normal. On SE++ I'm seeing the amount of personal experiences that pours through that section on a day-to-day basis. I read about people asking for relationship advice on H/A, the trouble people have with coworkers in the SE++ job thread, but I have yet to see someone talk about some jackass putting fraud charges on anyone's credit/debit accounts up until this Sony fiasco.
Not to anyone specific, but what makes this incident anything more or less important to talk about, than say what other shitty thing happened to you today?
I'm not seeing how this just a coincidence.
Better safe then sorry.
People really need to stop saying "there's no evidence credit card information was stolen" as though it is proof of anything.
The fact that it's being bandied about so much as defense against the possibility of credit fraud related to the PSN event is just proof that it's being taken the wrong way. It is effectively meaningless information, all Sony said was, in effect, "We don't know if they stole credit information, but we also don't know if they didn't steal credit information"
What will people do? Flock to these threads and make statements. Because its the 'thing to do' right now. Everyone else is, so why not chime in?
I never discuss my bank account with anyone. If I got frauded at any other time I might tell my room mate, change my card and move on. If it happened now? Sure, Id be here saying Zomg me too!
People need to realize roughly.. what, 100,000 people a day get scammed on Mastercards network daily (from some brochure of theirs.). It happens, a really damn lot. I bet 10 people a day on the PA forum get hit for some amount or another. A large number of people just happen to be gamers. The same as a lot of these sites reports are coming out of.
I dunno, it seems rather alarmist to me. Simple as that. Am I keeping an eye open? Sure. Am I going to believe it when the issuer of my card(mastercard) goes on public record as saying there has been no noticeably related invidences? Probably. They have mo to lose than Sony.
I sort of agree, but you can never be sure something is safe. There was no evidence that credit card information was taken after this breach, the same as there was no evidence credit card information was taken before this breach. I guess the only value that statement has is to say that credit card information was still possibly safe, rather than them confirming that it had been stolen. Making people aware of the seriousness of identity theft is important and the safeguards they can take to protect themselves is important, but saying suspicious cc charges are definitely related to the PSN breach is just fearmongering and doesn't really help anybody.
Maybe I'm just not riled up about it because when I found out, I basically said "that sucks", spent 15 minutes changing passwords and getting new credit cards sent, and didn't really think anything else of it. *shrug*
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I'm not the saudi arabia guy, but I pretty much asked the same thing a few minutes ago. This is G&T and the place where I see people talk about their personal day to day is SE++. This is probably the only thread on G&T that people would have reason to talk about their financial situation. If people really wanted some proof that people talk about money is not here; go read H/A and SE++ threads.
You need to understand what you're asking of me here when you suggest that maybe these are unrelated. I take a minute to check my bank account before I go to bed every couple of days. I use my debit card very frequently but generally at the same places, where it's almost never out of my sight and where I've never encountered a problem before. When, suddenly, Sony has a catastrophic data failure--data which, looking at the correction they had to publish regarding CVV codes, they don't even know they asked for in the first place--and I shortly thereafter begin encountering problems, it's easier for me, mentally, to connect the dots with the huge, obvious problem right in front of me, the one that other people in the same sample group are encountering, rather than dismissing that entirely and saying, "Well, I guess the cashier at Chipotle pulled a fast one on me." I'm not going to construct a fucking conspiracy theory about my debit card in order to absolve Sony of guilt.
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-77 million PSN accounts is a boatload of people.
-Ergo, there is no doubt going to be a ton of overlap between the two.
The sad thing is, you'll probably never really know if it truly was because of the PSN breach, or if you simply got the worst luck in the world.
Should we be cautious? Yes.
Should we start a lynch mob? I think it best to wait for the investigation first.
http://n4g.com/news/754278/congress-has-questions-for-sony-about-attack?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
On a side note, I've felt that only Sega & Microsoft have done online gaming on consoles well so far. Makes sense considering they had prior experience doing online gaming for the PC (Heat.NET, Zone). I'm of the belief whoever implemented PSN had little idea what they were doing.
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But clearly, you must be a tinfoil hat-wearing loony if you advocate caution :P
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Id love a nice survey of how many people got scammed before this ever happened on a daily basis. When it wasn't universally 'on topic' as its pasted everywhere on the internet.
You know, it very well could be related. Or it could just be all these people coming out of the woodworks because its proven human dynamic to want to be part of a discussion, particularly a large one. As someone said, we'd be hardpressed to find out. Regardless, if the tables were encrypted in anything nearing modern variety encryption, it would take several months if not years to decrypt it. Unless Sony just happened to leave the keys kicking around in a cleartext file. Which I'm pretty sure would be a fairly valid issue they'd raise. Or the independent company investigating them would raise.
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for Sony getting ran through the dirt. They need it. I'm just not sure how much I believe all of the 'evidence' people are scraping up one way or another. Maybe I'm just hoping Sony and all the people they ared and that are involved are more professional than everyone is making them out to be.
I didn't say it was.
It is entirely credible that many of these frauds are a direct result of the PSN attack. We might never know the truth; it'll depend on how widespread their possible use becomes. Sony's "no evidence" statement is utterly meaningless in context, and MasterCard's denial of fraudulent charges is not recent enough to take priority over other evidence.
It being in the title of the thread now will hopefully draw attention, just in case, and those people should follow such simple advice.
Also, as has been said earlier, maybe those people will be more careful with their personal security in the future.
This thread, much as I do check it for new information, has become kind of a cyclical mess. I'm pissed at Sony, and whoever is responsible for this, in equal. I want retribution from both.
I'm not trying to sound horribly entitled with that statement. I just mean that justice should be served if traceable to guilty parties, and Sony MUST do something to both apologize and offer something in recompense.
In the mean time, even if people reporting fraud incidents may not be related, they are only trying to be helpful (on these forums at least.)
Whether PSN leaks are the cause, or not, people should take the insignificant amount of time to reconsider their current personal security, and make sure they are as immune to situations like this in the future as possible.
To be safe ive changed my passwords on just about any website that i have bought something for or used for financial information. This stuff is a massive pain in the ass.
Turkey knows what it's about. :^:
Yes, Sony have said that they have encrypted the credit card information. So in theory it should be safe.
They also encrypted the Root Key.
I think the problem is you invoked a Glenn Beckism.
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Just for future reference, and I'm not addressing you personally, no one should answer those questions honestly, as they aren't difficult questions to procure the answers to through a little social engineering/google-fu.
If you can't create a custom question, and don't trust sites that will create random passwords, seriously just slam your face and hands on the keyboard in notepad as the answer.
It is incredibly frustrating and I blame it entirely on Sony for leaking my password and making me want to rush through this.
Wonder if we will get any straight answers.
I want to know more PA people on Twitter.
Why?
The PS3 doesn't have to be connected to Sony's irrepressibly drab and awful online service to play off the shelf Blu-Ray discs.
What is ironic is, after Microsoft spent a decade trying to convince people that shit like refigerators and light switches needed to have LAN IPs, it took Sony's console to demonstrate that just because an electrical appliance can be connected to ethernet, it doesn't necessarily follow that it should be.
ffffffuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu
All this 'showed' is one shouldn't trust Sony with anything complicated or important. Sony has more or less proven over the years that it is quite incapable. Generally their business success has been 50% luck and 50% who they are partnered with. All their independent attempts at doing... well, anything, have been lukewarm at best.
Id happily make my fridge a lan capable device if it was ran by.. like, the evil google empire.