One of the things I like least about the endings is
the amount of magic to it. Mass Effect was never hard sci-fi, which is a plus in my book, but it attempted to feel real and most of the space magic! tech made sense if you accept element zero's ability to modify mass (with a few exceptions like dominate, in which case they strayed back towards the Force). Two out of the three endings just run off into inexplicable magic, though.
Why does electrocuting Shepard upload her into the reaper brain? If that's what that conspicuous terminal with a path leading right up to it was designed to do, why not just make it a capsule like on the Legion mission? And if starchild is willing to accept Shepard's rule in the first place, why not just accept her new orders about what the reapers should be doing? If synthetics decide to wipe out organics in some cycle, wipe out those exact synthetics as Shepard would presumably do, don't eat everyone up and start over.
On the synthesis ending, how does incinerating Shepard's body in a beam of energy and then radiating a pulse of energy transfer her 'soul' to everyone and also somehow magically modify their DNA/give them DNA? How do you give a robot DNA? This is like "energy" in a mystic new age-y sense, only missing an amplifier crystal and some leylines. They should have just turned Shepard into a dragon and have her beat up all the reapers. The thing that irks me most about synthesis is that it's a lazy Helios. In DX, the entire game gave you the information for why the Helios ending might be desirable, if you agreed, and its delivery mechanism had been the major element of the game's tech and societal structure. Here it's just magic to solve a problem relayed by a reaper kid you have no reason to trust.
I could also ask why Shepard insists on walking into the thing that she's trying to blow up but then this is also the only survivable ending so I guess we'll say drama.
Glancing through the BSN forums, the PA comic had a better point than I previously thought.
I don't understand people complaining about the ending not being happy enough at all, anyone who thinks that completely fails to understand the nature of the fiction.
Shepard dying makes sense, the relays being destroyed makes sense, fucktons of people dying makes sense.
I'm much more irritated by the reaction to the ending than the ending itself at this stage, and I'm a little sad the hysteria has infected the PA forums.
That really isn't... the issue most of us have
shepard survived my ending so I'm glad you agree it doesnt make sense
You know what would be nice? If, in multiplayer, you were immune to grabs while in your standing up animation. Too many times have I been grabbed by a banshee or stabbed by a phantom when I could've done jack shit to avoid it. Hell, there was one game about a week ago where a teammate kept reviving me right next to a banshee and she'd grab me, but other enemies would down me before her animation could finish.
Well it wasn't Casey Hudson, and now I can't find it. It was from one of the writers of Me1 and Me2 about how without the
relay networks the homeworlds and industrial worlds will suffer massive dieoffs and agricultural worlds are the only ones able to maintain their level of technology.
I can't find it in the million page somethingawful thread and since I can't remember exactly which writer wrote it, and I can't simply appeal to logic (that in game, in codex, in books, core worlds are utterly dependent on the colonies for sustenance), I'm just going to drop it and concede that I'm a gibbering fucking moron
Objectively speaking, there is no way Earth could immediately sustain a population of billions after the damage it's suffered in ME3. That much, I think, is inarguable.
Glancing through the BSN forums, the PA comic had a better point than I previously thought.
I don't understand people complaining about the ending not being happy enough at all, anyone who thinks that completely fails to understand the nature of the fiction.
Shepard dying makes sense, the relays being destroyed makes sense, fucktons of people dying makes sense.
I'm much more irritated by the reaction to the ending than the ending itself at this stage, and I'm a little sad the hysteria has infected the PA forums.
We've had the "you just don't understand it" discussion about three times now, actually. When I heard "it needs something called the Catalyst" I said "ah, crap", because I assumed that would be my character. But I kept going, because y'know, I'll go out like a boss saving the galaxy, okay. Don't like it much, but whatever. (Yes, I want a damn happy ending. It's a space opera, and I'm playing as Commander Badass, the savior of the galaxy. That's how those work.)
And then we got a traffic light, where player agency is translated into "pick one of these three endings" that is essentially independent of your actions in the game, and has unknown effects on the game universe. And I went "uh what no wait what?" because I distinctly remembered not putting Deus Ex into the 360 today.
Regarding Incinerate as an engineer... Oh my yes max that little guy. I suppose you can make a case for maxed Overload instead for the 3rd jump, but I'm finding that the +50% damage on armor REALLY helps a Brute takedown. Maxed Drone and Training are pretty much required I think, and I don't know how anyone handles not having your little buddy AE stun AND chain zap.
Why are all the non-Avenger assault rifles so darn heavy? Throw on a Mattock, and suddenly I lose 40% cooldown.
Sure, but the broader complaint is the endings don't have a wide enough emotional and narrative range. The game would be stronger if it could end on everything from bleak despair to triumphant victory.
I think most of the complaints are only partially about this.
Most I've heard come from either the "Why the Hell did you change/explain the Reapers, what is this starchild shit" or the "These endings don't make any good god damn sense" camps. Often both
I've observed three basic categories of complaint. I think I posted this in the last thread, but essentially:
1. Emotional context is unsatisfying
2. Range of endings is too narrow
3. Specific details are questionable
#3 I consider the least important; had the ending delivered an emotionally satisfying climax no one would mind some minor "buh" bits in the specifics. But the ending emotion is one of confusion, rather than sadness, triumph, despair, or anything else they could have ended on. The limited range of endings and the emotion problem are linked; a wide range of endings with multiple emotional contexts would have satisfied a greater number of players, if each ending was tailored to a specific Shepherd's decisions.
I've been advised to add #4: Inconsistent with the ME universe and tone, but I can probably file that under #3 as one of the more serious of the specific issues.
There are no words for hack the terminal at the bottom of the huge staircase on wave 7+ of Firebase Glacier silver difficulty... except maybe "FUCK I'M OUT OF ROCKETS!". Actually no that doesn't even cover it at all.
Just had a match with 2 sets of banshee's followed by 2 brutes each time while being pounded on by ravagers and mauraders from both sides. That shit was hard. I have no fucking idea how we survived that.
One of the things I like least about the endings is
the amount of magic to it. Mass Effect was never hard sci-fi, which is a plus in my book, but it attempted to feel real and most of the space magic! tech made sense if you accept element zero's ability to modify mass (with a few exceptions like dominate, in which case they strayed back towards the Force). Two out of the three endings just run off into inexplicable magic, though.
Why does electrocuting Shepard upload her into the reaper brain? If that's what that conspicuous terminal with a path leading right up to it was designed to do, why not just make it a capsule like on the Legion mission? And if starchild is willing to accept Shepard's rule in the first place, why not just accept her new orders about what the reapers should be doing? If synthetics decide to wipe out organics in some cycle, wipe out those exact synthetics as Shepard would presumably do, don't eat everyone up and start over.
On the synthesis ending, how does incinerating Shepard's body in a beam of energy and then radiating a pulse of energy transfer her 'soul' to everyone and also somehow magically modify their DNA/give them DNA? How do you give a robot DNA? This is like "energy" in a mystic new age-y sense, only missing an amplifier crystal and some leylines. They should have just turned Shepard into a dragon and have her beat up all the reapers. The thing that irks me most about synthesis is that it's a lazy Helios. In DX, the entire game gave you the information for why the Helios ending might be desirable, if you agreed, and its delivery mechanism had been the major element of the game's tech and societal structure. Here it's just magic to solve a problem relayed by a reaper kid you have no reason to trust.
I could also ask why Shepard insists on walking into the thing that she's trying to blow up but then this is also the only survivable ending so I guess we'll say drama.
they actually do kind of hint that this is possible, but the connection to the ending scenario is never made explicit (or even really implicit)
javik has a conversation where he talks about how the protheans could transfer feelings/knowledge by touch; they eventually incorporated it into their technology (the beacons.) When shepard doesn't get it, javik says it's because 'communication is still primitive in this cycle.'
obviously the reapers also have the ability to transfer/influence consciousness in this way (indoctrination.)
but aside from in 1-2 conversations with javik, the game doesn't explore it again really ever.
it was the smallest on the list but
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
Sentinel: Biotic Asshole is pretty amusing to play. 1530N throws, beefed up even further with tech armor send critters careening off into the distance.
Alright, i didn't like this game at first, but that was before i started using the adept. If there is a multiplayer list for xbox, add me to it. Warning: I'm new to mass effect series so i'm not super good or anything.
they actually do kind of hint that this is possible, but the connection to the ending scenario is never made explicit (or even really implicit)
javik has a conversation where he talks about how the protheans could transfer feelings/knowledge by touch; they eventually incorporated it into their technology (the beacons.) When shepard doesn't get it, javik says it's because 'communication is still primitive in this cycle.'
obviously the reapers also have the ability to transfer/influence consciousness in this way (indoctrination.)
but aside from in 1-2 conversations with javik, the game doesn't explore it again really ever.
Yeah, but there's a pretty big step between 'communication' and 'matter rewriting, fundamentally rebuilding an organism/robot's body in a new configuration instantly the second a wave of colorful energy washes over them.' The second one is pure sorcery.
One of the things I like least about the endings is
the amount of magic to it. Mass Effect was never hard sci-fi, which is a plus in my book, but it attempted to feel real and most of the space magic! tech made sense if you accept element zero's ability to modify mass (with a few exceptions like dominate, in which case they strayed back towards the Force). Two out of the three endings just run off into inexplicable magic, though.
Why does electrocuting Shepard upload her into the reaper brain? If that's what that conspicuous terminal with a path leading right up to it was designed to do, why not just make it a capsule like on the Legion mission? And if starchild is willing to accept Shepard's rule in the first place, why not just accept her new orders about what the reapers should be doing? If synthetics decide to wipe out organics in some cycle, wipe out those exact synthetics as Shepard would presumably do, don't eat everyone up and start over.
On the synthesis ending, how does incinerating Shepard's body in a beam of energy and then radiating a pulse of energy transfer her 'soul' to everyone and also somehow magically modify their DNA/give them DNA? How do you give a robot DNA? This is like "energy" in a mystic new age-y sense, only missing an amplifier crystal and some leylines. They should have just turned Shepard into a dragon and have her beat up all the reapers. The thing that irks me most about synthesis is that it's a lazy Helios. In DX, the entire game gave you the information for why the Helios ending might be desirable, if you agreed, and its delivery mechanism had been the major element of the game's tech and societal structure. Here it's just magic to solve a problem relayed by a reaper kid you have no reason to trust.
I could also ask why Shepard insists on walking into the thing that she's trying to blow up but then this is also the only survivable ending so I guess we'll say drama.
they actually do kind of hint that this is possible, but the connection to the ending scenario is never made explicit (or even really implicit)
javik has a conversation where he talks about how the protheans could transfer feelings/knowledge by touch; they eventually incorporated it into their technology (the beacons.) When shepard doesn't get it, javik says it's because 'communication is still primitive in this cycle.'
obviously the reapers also have the ability to transfer/influence consciousness in this way (indoctrination.)
but aside from in 1-2 conversations with javik, the game doesn't explore it again really ever.
Holy shit
this actually hadn't occurred to me at all - but your right, it's hugely significant that the Reapers were specifically liquefying people and pumping them into Reaper hulls if "memory has it's own biochemistry".
Like, that's a massive tick in favor of Harbinger not necessarily being completely full of BS when he referred to "salvation by destruction" - depending on how one ranks the fidelity of that transfer progress as still preserving a person.
they actually do kind of hint that this is possible, but the connection to the ending scenario is never made explicit (or even really implicit)
javik has a conversation where he talks about how the protheans could transfer feelings/knowledge by touch; they eventually incorporated it into their technology (the beacons.) When shepard doesn't get it, javik says it's because 'communication is still primitive in this cycle.'
obviously the reapers also have the ability to transfer/influence consciousness in this way (indoctrination.)
but aside from in 1-2 conversations with javik, the game doesn't explore it again really ever.
Yeah, but there's a pretty big step between 'communication' and 'matter rewriting, fundamentally rebuilding an organism/robot's body in a new configuration instantly the second a wave of colorful energy washes over them.' The second one is pure sorcery.
Dude, no, it's not sorcery, it's just technology we don't understand.
PS. For some reason, reading your posts in Keith David's voice is just hilarious.
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FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
So I guess I'm done with single player for awhile. I was really wrapped up in it, but now... I dunno.
That conversation figured into the Reaper reproduction cycle. If they can extract some form of memory from all those liquefied people being fed into the Reaper bodies, it makes a little more sense that Harbinger might argue he's doing it for your civilization's greater benefit. Your people are, in essence, being turned into Reapers. The pinnacle of existence, according to Sovereign, after all.
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Mr FuzmsAuckland, New ZealandRegistered Userregular
and now I've unlocked the Turian Sentinal. Too many choices! He takes some serious damage, but doesn't seem capable of giving any out? I feel like I'm missing something. Warp barely does anything, and the shock thing only knocks out shields. I was just slow walking around shooting things in the face, taking bullets to the head like a ma-...uh, Turian.
and now I've unlocked the Turian Sentinal. Too many choices! He takes some serious damage, but doesn't seem capable of giving any out? I feel like I'm missing something. Warp barely does anything, and the shock thing only knocks out shields. I was just slow walking around shooting things in the face, taking bullets to the head like a ma-...uh, Turian.
Level Overload and Warp. Lead with Overload, follow up with Warp. It causes Tech explosions. Don't turn on your Tech Armor, that uses up too much time. Sentinels are a support class, not a direct damage class. Your job is to strip enemy defenses (Overload is great on shields and Barriers) and stun them with Overload, or help set off Biotic Explosions.
they actually do kind of hint that this is possible, but the connection to the ending scenario is never made explicit (or even really implicit)
javik has a conversation where he talks about how the protheans could transfer feelings/knowledge by touch; they eventually incorporated it into their technology (the beacons.) When shepard doesn't get it, javik says it's because 'communication is still primitive in this cycle.'
obviously the reapers also have the ability to transfer/influence consciousness in this way (indoctrination.)
but aside from in 1-2 conversations with javik, the game doesn't explore it again really ever.
Yeah, but there's a pretty big step between 'communication' and 'matter rewriting, fundamentally rebuilding an organism/robot's body in a new configuration instantly the second a wave of colorful energy washes over them.' The second one is pure sorcery.
sure, but it's no more sorcery than
reapers creating gestalt consciousness from melted-down organic bodies. If they can do that (and the prothean beacons work the way we observe) it could be that ranged transmission is just a matter of bandwidth and signal strength (i.e. the catalyst.)
it actually makes the ending of ME2 even darker than it already was; you wake the humanreaper prematurely, and the new consciousness inside has no idea where it is or what's going on other than that it's chained down and shepard is shooting guns at it
ed: kind of like the luna AI, now that I think about it
Eat it You Nasty Pig. on
it was the smallest on the list but
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
they actually do kind of hint that this is possible, but the connection to the ending scenario is never made explicit (or even really implicit)
javik has a conversation where he talks about how the protheans could transfer feelings/knowledge by touch; they eventually incorporated it into their technology (the beacons.) When shepard doesn't get it, javik says it's because 'communication is still primitive in this cycle.'
obviously the reapers also have the ability to transfer/influence consciousness in this way (indoctrination.)
but aside from in 1-2 conversations with javik, the game doesn't explore it again really ever.
Yeah, but there's a pretty big step between 'communication' and 'matter rewriting, fundamentally rebuilding an organism/robot's body in a new configuration instantly the second a wave of colorful energy washes over them.' The second one is pure sorcery.
sure, but it's no more sorcery than
reapers creating gestalt consciousness from melted-down organic bodies. If they can do that (and the prothean beacons work the way we observe) it could be that ranged transmission is just a matter of bandwidth and signal strength (i.e. the catalyst.)
it actually makes the ending of ME2 even darker than it already was; you wake the humanreaper prematurely, and the new consciousness inside has no idea where it is or what's going on other than that it's chained down and shepard is shooting guns at it
Nah I'd say that's a lot more sorcery.
Accepting that memory is chemical, okay, sure, I can accept that, sort of. Accepting that I can add DNA to things that aren't made of carbon, using an energy wave, yeah, that's a bit more of a stretch
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lu tzeSweeping the monestary steps.Registered Userregular
and now I've unlocked the Turian Sentinal. Too many choices! He takes some serious damage, but doesn't seem capable of giving any out? I feel like I'm missing something. Warp barely does anything, and the shock thing only knocks out shields. I was just slow walking around shooting things in the face, taking bullets to the head like a ma-...uh, Turian.
You can combo overloaded enemies with warp to do a tech burst.
This is why I had a huge problem with them explaining the Reaper's motivations because as far as I was concerned, the Reapers already had been explained: They harvest us in order to reproduce. They consider it an improvement because they consider themselves above us, better than us so we should be happy to become one of them. The explanation they ended up using was just... confusing and needlessly unnecessary not to mention it just asks more questions than it does offer answers...
I mean, did anyone seriously need any more Reaper justification? They were scarier BEFORE they were given this backstory.
A lot of scientists believe at one point humanity's population was reduced to a paltry 10,000 due to a super volcano or some such. I think we can all agree in the short term, a lot of planets will be hurting bad. But to paraphrase Saren, is survival not preferable to extinction?
The endings are grim, they SHOULD be grim after a war with cybergods. But life finds a way.
The enemy, especially dark ancient machine god enemies, are always scarier when you don't try to add more explanations to their motives. Leave them completely obscured if you can. It's scarier that way. They're more intimidating that way. It's part of what made Sovereign a more effective villain than Harbinger, and much more effective as a god figure than the Catalyst.
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DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
A lot of scientists believe at one point humanity's population was reduced to a paltry 10,000 due to a super volcano or some such. I think we can all agree in the short term, a lot of planets will be hurting bad. But to paraphrase Saren, is survival not preferable to extinction?
The endings are grim, they SHOULD be grim after a war with cybergods. But life finds a way.
Well,
Some, or even most of the endings should be grim, I agree. But not all. Not to beat a dead horse, but a wide range of endings would have catered to all tastes. One of the strengths of the series is that while the broad strokes of the narrative are of course fixed, a lot of the cosmetic details and specifics are up to the player's choice. The ending would have been a perfect place to cash in that sense of agency, instead of utterly annihilating the illusion of choice we'd enjoyed before.
The enemy, especially dark ancient machine god enemies, are always scarier when you don't try to add more explanations to their motives. Leave them completely obscured if you can. It's scarier that way. They're more intimidating that way. It's part of what made Sovereign a more effective villain than Harbinger, and much more effective as a god figure than the Catalyst.
I don't think sovereign was a more effective villain than harbinger
villains we understand are always more compelling than ones we don't. Lovecraft's monsters are dreadful/awe inspiring, but as antagonists they aren't much more compelling than a natural disaster.
it was the smallest on the list but
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
they actually do kind of hint that this is possible, but the connection to the ending scenario is never made explicit (or even really implicit)
javik has a conversation where he talks about how the protheans could transfer feelings/knowledge by touch; they eventually incorporated it into their technology (the beacons.) When shepard doesn't get it, javik says it's because 'communication is still primitive in this cycle.'
obviously the reapers also have the ability to transfer/influence consciousness in this way (indoctrination.)
but aside from in 1-2 conversations with javik, the game doesn't explore it again really ever.
Yeah, but there's a pretty big step between 'communication' and 'matter rewriting, fundamentally rebuilding an organism/robot's body in a new configuration instantly the second a wave of colorful energy washes over them.' The second one is pure sorcery.
sure, but it's no more sorcery than
reapers creating gestalt consciousness from melted-down organic bodies. If they can do that (and the prothean beacons work the way we observe) it could be that ranged transmission is just a matter of bandwidth and signal strength (i.e. the catalyst.)
it actually makes the ending of ME2 even darker than it already was; you wake the humanreaper prematurely, and the new consciousness inside has no idea where it is or what's going on other than that it's chained down and shepard is shooting guns at it
It does go back to
transcendentalist zealots theory of the Reapers really. If they actually are doing some kind of collective upload of organics consciousness, then the reason they keep doing it is because they really do believe it's a superior option - or the only option (which would've really worked for the whole dark energy ending).
It also poses a pile of more interesting questions - especially if consider that if the Reaper harvest isn't terminating consciousnesses, then fighting them is some what more morally problematic. Like...when people are huskified...are they even killed or does the process do a memory upload? Is a memory upload enough to reconstruct a person - is that process enough to reconstruct them, and is the problem that they do it, or the period of disconnect between the time of the upload and the suffering of the original host?
The enemy, especially dark ancient machine god enemies, are always scarier when you don't try to add more explanations to their motives. Leave them completely obscured if you can. It's scarier that way. They're more intimidating that way. It's part of what made Sovereign a more effective villain than Harbinger, and much more effective as a god figure than the Catalyst.
I don't think sovereign was a more effective villain than harbinger
villains we understand are always more compelling than ones we don't. Lovecraft's monsters are dreadful/awe inspiring, but as antagonists they aren't much more compelling than a natural disaster.
I don't think that actually required a spoiler, but we'll keep going down that line I guess.
Sovereign was more effective than Harbinger, though. Both of them had motivations beyond our understanding, but Harbinger's motivations were the tiniest bit more clear than Sovereign's had been. And beyond that, Sovereign himself was more of a concrete threat, and had better dialogue/a scarier voice.
I guess Saren was more appropriately the villain of ME1, but Sovereign was definitely the more effective Cosmic Horror when compared to Harbinger.
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wiltingI had fun once and it was awfulRegistered Userregular
Glancing through the BSN forums, the PA comic had a better point than I previously thought.
I don't understand people complaining about the ending not being happy enough at all, anyone who thinks that completely fails to understand the nature of the fiction.
Shepard dying makes sense, the relays being destroyed makes sense, fucktons of people dying makes sense.
I'm much more irritated by the reaction to the ending than the ending itself at this stage, and I'm a little sad the hysteria has infected the PA forums.
That really isn't... the issue most of us have
shepard survived my ending so I'm glad you agree it doesnt make sense
I'm just saying that there is more of that particular complaint going around than I thought, not that it invalidates all complaints.
That pretty much confirms that to be the "bad" ending to me, Shepard not sacrificing for the greater good a la Mordin and Legion to break the pattern. Not that Geth genocide wasn't bad enough already.
they actually do kind of hint that this is possible, but the connection to the ending scenario is never made explicit (or even really implicit)
javik has a conversation where he talks about how the protheans could transfer feelings/knowledge by touch; they eventually incorporated it into their technology (the beacons.) When shepard doesn't get it, javik says it's because 'communication is still primitive in this cycle.'
obviously the reapers also have the ability to transfer/influence consciousness in this way (indoctrination.)
but aside from in 1-2 conversations with javik, the game doesn't explore it again really ever.
Yeah, but there's a pretty big step between 'communication' and 'matter rewriting, fundamentally rebuilding an organism/robot's body in a new configuration instantly the second a wave of colorful energy washes over them.' The second one is pure sorcery.
Dude, no, it's not sorcery, it's just technology we don't understand.
PS. For some reason, reading your posts in Keith David's voice is just hilarious.
About that...
While yes, you could say that its just tech we don't understand-Its way too far out from what he have seen in the game/series for us to really apply a decent suspension of belief for it. Its so far out of left field and in the last 5 minutes that it just comes of as hokey as midichlorians. If it had a decent explanation or some actual build up to the possibility it would have been more acceptable. But in its current state is, essentially, just space magic. Oh, yeah, and its also why we can accept things like traynor's mass effect tooth brush.
they actually do kind of hint that this is possible, but the connection to the ending scenario is never made explicit (or even really implicit)
javik has a conversation where he talks about how the protheans could transfer feelings/knowledge by touch; they eventually incorporated it into their technology (the beacons.) When shepard doesn't get it, javik says it's because 'communication is still primitive in this cycle.'
obviously the reapers also have the ability to transfer/influence consciousness in this way (indoctrination.)
but aside from in 1-2 conversations with javik, the game doesn't explore it again really ever.
Yeah, but there's a pretty big step between 'communication' and 'matter rewriting, fundamentally rebuilding an organism/robot's body in a new configuration instantly the second a wave of colorful energy washes over them.' The second one is pure sorcery.
sure, but it's no more sorcery than
reapers creating gestalt consciousness from melted-down organic bodies. If they can do that (and the prothean beacons work the way we observe) it could be that ranged transmission is just a matter of bandwidth and signal strength (i.e. the catalyst.)
it actually makes the ending of ME2 even darker than it already was; you wake the humanreaper prematurely, and the new consciousness inside has no idea where it is or what's going on other than that it's chained down and shepard is shooting guns at it
It does go back to
transcendentalist zealots theory of the Reapers really. If they actually are doing some kind of collective upload of organics consciousness, then the reason they keep doing it is because they really do believe it's a superior option - or the only option (which would've really worked for the whole dark energy ending).
It also poses a pile of more interesting questions - especially if consider that if the Reaper harvest isn't terminating consciousnesses, then fighting them is some what more morally problematic. Like...when people are huskified...are they even killed or does the process do a memory upload? Is a memory upload enough to reconstruct a person - is that process enough to reconstruct them, and is the problem that they do it, or the period of disconnect between the time of the upload and the suffering of the original host?
I always thought that legion's loyalty mission and his dialogues about technological determinism were subtley to try to get you to make these connections about humans and reapers
I guess I never thought of the reapers as being deceptive, at least toward shepard; from their point of view, why would they try to mislead you? They're going to win anyway, and if they're honest you might wind up seeing it their way
this is one of the reasons I found the end of ME3 so frustrating
at some point someone went to a lot of trouble to start making reapers; I wanted to know the reason! (one throwaway line about synethics/organics didn't really do it for me)
Eat it You Nasty Pig. on
it was the smallest on the list but
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
I don't believe the inferred holocaust, because despite all my problems with the ending that one has a simple solution. The nerve center of the relays plausibly has a way to deactivate and destroy relays without nuking everything and they just couldn't express it very well since the endings are a big garbled mess, and they needed to show a relay's destruction not merely it's turning off. It even fires the center energy down the rails before exploding, whereas in Arrival that energy was released and nova'ed.
Also, manwiththemachinegun, you should probably put the Endor bit in the tags, too. Relays are a pretty obvious candidate for exploding and it wouldn't take much to put the two together. I got spoiled on the relay thing before beating thanks to Scarab characteristically talking at length outside of tags about mass relay explosion theory in the midst of furious ending chatter.
reapers creating gestalt consciousness from melted-down organic bodies. If they can do that (and the prothean beacons work the way we observe) it could be that ranged transmission is just a matter of bandwidth and signal strength (i.e. the catalyst.)
It's more than just transmitting consciousness (and I'm not sure the reapers are reliable narrators to begin with), it's performing massive surgery and fundamentally rebuilding an organism/synthetic into some new class in a second. A colorful corona passes over and suddenly plants have circuitry all over them and everyone's eyes glow. That's downright Hand of God.
The whole transcendentalism thing is still true, it's just downplayed by the Catalyst in favor of "must stop toaster annihilation". He doesn't think he's actually disrupting the organics too much because he's uplifting them into reaper form, as well as giving cavemen the chance to get to space too. Which is, of course, a bullshit justification so Destroy Destroy Destroy.
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Why does electrocuting Shepard upload her into the reaper brain? If that's what that conspicuous terminal with a path leading right up to it was designed to do, why not just make it a capsule like on the Legion mission? And if starchild is willing to accept Shepard's rule in the first place, why not just accept her new orders about what the reapers should be doing? If synthetics decide to wipe out organics in some cycle, wipe out those exact synthetics as Shepard would presumably do, don't eat everyone up and start over.
On the synthesis ending, how does incinerating Shepard's body in a beam of energy and then radiating a pulse of energy transfer her 'soul' to everyone and also somehow magically modify their DNA/give them DNA? How do you give a robot DNA? This is like "energy" in a mystic new age-y sense, only missing an amplifier crystal and some leylines. They should have just turned Shepard into a dragon and have her beat up all the reapers. The thing that irks me most about synthesis is that it's a lazy Helios. In DX, the entire game gave you the information for why the Helios ending might be desirable, if you agreed, and its delivery mechanism had been the major element of the game's tech and societal structure. Here it's just magic to solve a problem relayed by a reaper kid you have no reason to trust.
I could also ask why Shepard insists on walking into the thing that she's trying to blow up but then this is also the only survivable ending so I guess we'll say drama.
That really isn't... the issue most of us have
Steam: MightyPotatoKing
And then we got a traffic light, where player agency is translated into "pick one of these three endings" that is essentially independent of your actions in the game, and has unknown effects on the game universe. And I went "uh what no wait what?" because I distinctly remembered not putting Deus Ex into the 360 today.
Regarding Incinerate as an engineer... Oh my yes max that little guy. I suppose you can make a case for maxed Overload instead for the 3rd jump, but I'm finding that the +50% damage on armor REALLY helps a Brute takedown. Maxed Drone and Training are pretty much required I think, and I don't know how anyone handles not having your little buddy AE stun AND chain zap.
Why are all the non-Avenger assault rifles so darn heavy?
1. Emotional context is unsatisfying
2. Range of endings is too narrow
3. Specific details are questionable
#3 I consider the least important; had the ending delivered an emotionally satisfying climax no one would mind some minor "buh" bits in the specifics. But the ending emotion is one of confusion, rather than sadness, triumph, despair, or anything else they could have ended on. The limited range of endings and the emotion problem are linked; a wide range of endings with multiple emotional contexts would have satisfied a greater number of players, if each ending was tailored to a specific Shepherd's decisions.
I've been advised to add #4: Inconsistent with the ME universe and tone, but I can probably file that under #3 as one of the more serious of the specific issues.
Just had a match with 2 sets of banshee's followed by 2 brutes each time while being pounded on by ravagers and mauraders from both sides. That shit was hard. I have no fucking idea how we survived that.
they actually do kind of hint that this is possible, but the connection to the ending scenario is never made explicit (or even really implicit)
obviously the reapers also have the ability to transfer/influence consciousness in this way (indoctrination.)
but aside from in 1-2 conversations with javik, the game doesn't explore it again really ever.
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
Nintendo ID: Pastalonius
Smite\LoL:Gremlidin \ WoW & Overwatch & Hots: Gremlidin#1734
3ds: 3282-2248-0453
Holy shit
Like, that's a massive tick in favor of Harbinger not necessarily being completely full of BS when he referred to "salvation by destruction" - depending on how one ranks the fidelity of that transfer progress as still preserving a person.
PS. For some reason, reading your posts in Keith David's voice is just hilarious.
Level Overload and Warp. Lead with Overload, follow up with Warp. It causes Tech explosions. Don't turn on your Tech Armor, that uses up too much time. Sentinels are a support class, not a direct damage class. Your job is to strip enemy defenses (Overload is great on shields and Barriers) and stun them with Overload, or help set off Biotic Explosions.
sure, but it's no more sorcery than
it actually makes the ending of ME2 even darker than it already was; you wake the humanreaper prematurely, and the new consciousness inside has no idea where it is or what's going on other than that it's chained down and shepard is shooting guns at it
ed: kind of like the luna AI, now that I think about it
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
Nah I'd say that's a lot more sorcery.
I mean, did anyone seriously need any more Reaper justification? They were scarier BEFORE they were given this backstory.
The endings are grim, they SHOULD be grim after a war with cybergods. But life finds a way.
Well,
That went well.
It really is
I don't think sovereign was a more effective villain than harbinger
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
It does go back to
It also poses a pile of more interesting questions - especially if consider that if the Reaper harvest isn't terminating consciousnesses, then fighting them is some what more morally problematic. Like...when people are huskified...are they even killed or does the process do a memory upload? Is a memory upload enough to reconstruct a person - is that process enough to reconstruct them, and is the problem that they do it, or the period of disconnect between the time of the upload and the suffering of the original host?
I don't think that actually required a spoiler, but we'll keep going down that line I guess.
I guess Saren was more appropriately the villain of ME1, but Sovereign was definitely the more effective Cosmic Horror when compared to Harbinger.
I'm just saying that there is more of that particular complaint going around than I thought, not that it invalidates all complaints.
That pretty much confirms that to be the "bad" ending to me, Shepard not sacrificing for the greater good a la Mordin and Legion to break the pattern. Not that Geth genocide wasn't bad enough already.
Sick of pubbies charging into a banshee and brute and dying on the other side of the map to where to objective is.
About that...
I always thought that legion's loyalty mission and his dialogues about technological determinism were subtley to try to get you to make these connections about humans and reapers
I guess I never thought of the reapers as being deceptive, at least toward shepard; from their point of view, why would they try to mislead you? They're going to win anyway, and if they're honest you might wind up seeing it their way
this is one of the reasons I found the end of ME3 so frustrating
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
Let's shoot banshees.
I'll be on in the evening, I expect you to be there, killin things.
Also, manwiththemachinegun, you should probably put the Endor bit in the tags, too. Relays are a pretty obvious candidate for exploding and it wouldn't take much to put the two together. I got spoiled on the relay thing before beating thanks to Scarab characteristically talking at length outside of tags about mass relay explosion theory in the midst of furious ending chatter.
I have to go down a ladder, but I just get stuck on a piece of geometry or something, and can't descend. Pissing me off.
Anyone know how to fix it? I don't want to reload, as my previous save is like 2 hours ago after talking to like everyone on the Citadel.