Mostly I'd just run up to Tide and Rubik, Q them, get CC'd, QoP would blink in and ruin their shit, then I'd follow up with another Q and some autos. But yeah, I had Bottle, Magic Wand, Arcane Boots, and an Agh by like 25 minutes. Probably could nixed the Arcane for Treads/Phase, but we won all the team fights so whatever.
The enemy team was so mad, they didn't even GG us. They just left like a bunch of cunts after we took bottom rax.
arcanes aren't bad on panda if your team doesn't have two natural carriers or people you would expect to have them
making sure you have enough mana for clap + ult at pretty much all times is a great way to just make panda do so much work for you. i've gone soul ring on games where i felt it was good, basically if i was already stomping on dudes in my lane and the rest of their team didn't have much burst. as long as you have clap and ult, basically no one should stand toe to toe with you in the midgame if you position properly to get big claps as well as stun/cyclone the proper dudes. fucking love panda. drums is amazing on him too, for mana problems and for chase (plus your ult units keep auras, so you'll have the passive movespeed aura on them too!)
No matter how much reading and studying and the bit of playing I do, this game is so much harder for me then LoL.
The game is really hard to get into, but once you're just barely in and learning the nuances it becomes so much more fun than League (in my opinion of course). I think its the fact that theres so many more options available that makes it so fun and interesting.
CorriganX on Steam and just about everywhere else.
No matter how much reading and studying and the bit of playing I do, this game is so much harder for me then LoL.
The game is really hard to get into, but once you're just barely in and learning the nuances it becomes so much more fun than League (in my opinion of course). I think its the fact that theres so many more options available that makes it so fun and interesting.
I agree, I've ended up enjoying this way more than LoL. In a lot of ways LoL is a streamlined, more simplistic game. And I don't mean that in a derogatory way either, there's still loads of strategy to be found, but a lot the roles are much more defined and the game takes away a lot of the multi-tasking complexity that Dota has. Also I don't think you'll ever find a character like Bane in LoL, who can so ridiculously abuse his nightmare on allies, and I like the fact that dota trusts the player with that kind of thing.
Also...Valve's polish and the dev team's attention to detail is just phenomenal.
i really like that there are two distinct and different games in a genre that has always just been called "dotalike" for a while --- lol definitely carved out its design niche and really capitalized on the cash shop heavily before most games. i mean, i personally enjoy dota, but i like that there is choice. i really do like dota's heroes and just the flexibility in the game (i mean, shit like jungle lion + with brood spiders to give brood a double lane, or hell windrunner, who goes solo mid, solo suicide lane, aggressive trilane, defensive jungle, holy moly) really draws me to the game.
valve is just putting icing on the cake with shit like baked into the client spectator/commentator replays, team support, tournament support, smart cash shop/cosmetics. ilu valve.
i mean, it could just seem harder because you are coming to it with at least partially a lol learned mind -- ie, thinking of things in terms of lol.
i had a hard time adjusting to lol when i played in its beta after playing a shit ton of dota --- i tried to play blitzcrank like pudge, which didn't work well, to say the least. there are a lot of subtleties that go counter to what the other game does. i don't know how to get past this other than just playing more --- dota and lol's learning curves are basically best taken on head first, trying to just commit things to memory through experience.
No matter how much reading and studying and the bit of playing I do, this game is so much harder for me then LoL.
That's understandable, as LoL was designed basically to be a bit more accessible and easier to pick up version of DotA, and the existing LoL habits/skills you've got will muddle the waters further. Just keep playing, preferably with friends/teammates, you'll get there.
So, y'know how most spells Rubick steals cast with a more or less instant animation? If you get Nature's Prophet's TP, it gives you what is essentially a global blink every 20 seconds, because the TP casts instantly.
Fun stuff.
That Fade Bolt nerf really did hit hard though, wow. I hadn't played him since before that patch since I haven't played original DotA in some time, and he has some serious mana problems now. Kind of a bummer. I mean, Fade Bolt needed a nerf for sure, but 150 mana at all levels and 18 (16?) CD at level 1 seems a little excessive.
eh, fade bolt at 90 was ridic. at 150 you basically need arcanes + bottle or drums or something, just so you can use it a bit for farm and for random harass zaps when you think shit might go down. i think he's pretty balanced right now, spell steal is awesome. and the stuff that comes through dota 2 being on a different engine is awesome, like being able to steal all the spells, agh's shit, cool animations. dude owns.
my best hero is probably venomancer still though. i can't believe how powerful gale is. lanes like sk/veno feel like a trilane with two heroes, did so many double kill dunks on an omni and pa (they had no real chance anyways) because they didn't respect burrow and gale's power at literally killing the fuck out of you, along with my passive and a ward or two.
like, goddamn. and that let's me just snowball out support style, upping courier fast, rewarding at 6, grabbing an early smoke to kill top, push their tower and shit.
Playing support in pub is usually a futile endeavour but veno is just too good to not. I'm 14-4 with him or something, for playing support as support and not just being a fuckwit I think that is a pretty decent record in pubs.
I think they've also cleaned up blink distances. In wc3 any time a unit tries to blink past their maximum blink range they will actually blink less than the maximum (4/5s), so it's important to always know the maximum range of a blink and be able to get as close as possible to it without going over. In dota 2 if you blink outside the maximum distance you get the maximum distance.
It might be a different fraction, but you definitely go slightly shorter than full range if you try to blink outside of range. I have a 1200 range ring around my hero set up (dota_range_display 1200 in the autoexec) and if I click outside it with blink dagger, I don't go right to the edge.
eh, fade bolt at 90 was ridic. at 150 you basically need arcanes + bottle or drums or something, just so you can use it a bit for farm and for random harass zaps when you think shit might go down. i think he's pretty balanced right now, spell steal is awesome. and the stuff that comes through dota 2 being on a different engine is awesome, like being able to steal all the spells, agh's shit, cool animations. dude owns.
god i love veno.
Fade Bolt at 90 was insane, no doubt; I just think they swung the pendulum a bit too far in the other direction.
Spell Steal is great, but if you're against competent players it can be really hard to get good stuff if they know what they're doing. Fortunately, most pubbies don't.
The thing that really interests me is the instant cast times, though. Obviously, it should maybe be changed for some skills (Epicenter, etc) but I kinda hope they keep that in general; it's difficult to get good spells if your opponents are guarding them, so that's a cool way to both give Rubick a bit of an advantage when he does snag one as well as help compensate for the fact that if you're stealing in a teamfight they've probably already let fly with the ability.
Plus, it's just so fun. Instant Furion TP had me cracking up for about ten minutes.
I will teach anyone what I know, even though it is meagre! Ask me whenever. Bots, pubs, whatever.
What are your thoughts on Lina items right now? I've been trying to pick her up and I'm really not sure what I should be building, aside from the obvious force staff/blink dagger.
Instant Furion TP is apparently an unintended bug.
That's a damn shame, it was hilarious, although probably too good to stay.
0
Options
RaakamToo many years...CanadalandRegistered Userregular
I'm so used to spells scaling with items that I always assume there is an AP component to Dota when there isn't. Is Aghanim's Scepter generally good to get for the ults that get affected by it, or too expensive/counterable?
My padherder they don't it be like it is but it do
0
Options
3cl1ps3I will build a labyrinth to house the cheeseRegistered Userregular
I'm so used to spells scaling with items that I always assume there is an AP component to Dota when there isn't. Is Aghanim's Scepter generally good to get for the ults that get affected by it, or too expensive/counterable?
It's very situational and depends on the ult. For example, you'll never see it on Void, but it's Core on Brewmaster.
I'm so used to spells scaling with items that I always assume there is an AP component to Dota when there isn't. Is Aghanim's Scepter generally good to get for the ults that get affected by it, or too expensive/counterable?
Aghanim's is very situational.
For example, it's a waste of time on Lina or Lion, as all it does is add a few hundred extra damage to their ults; the money could be much better spent elsewhere.
On the other hand, as observed, it is core on Brewmaster, and quite strong on other heroes such as Pudge and Clockwerk.
You'll probably be able to get a feel for what's good and what's not worth the upgrade just by looking at what the upgrade gives you; generally, you're looking for some kind of extra effect or really significant buff (like Chen's Hand of God's MASSIVE cooldown reduction from 120sec to 30sec or Clockwerk's ability to Hookshot allies) and not just a minor damage uptick.
Speaking of Aghanims, I still cannot believe that they once thought it would be a good idea to give AA a 15 sec cooldown on his ult with Aghanims. That was just insane.
The_Tuninator on
0
Options
RaakamToo many years...CanadalandRegistered Userregular
So, for someone like Warlock that would get a 2nd Infernal, and maybe with a Refresher, 4 infernals seems like an ok idea or is this too far fetched/looks good on paper but is terrible in practice situations?
My padherder they don't it be like it is but it do
You could probably cause a lot of trouble with that build, but I would be leery to aim for it simply because that is a lot of farm and Warlock is a support hero.
You'll want a Mek, and if you're warding on top of that, you will find it very difficult to scrounge up the gold for that build.
So yeah, definitely something you could do for fun if you're running away with the game or just messing around in pubs, but in a serious match it's probably not ideal unless you find yourself with a lot of spare gold.
The_Tuninator on
0
Options
RaakamToo many years...CanadalandRegistered Userregular
Thanks Tun, just trying to wrap my head around what champs should and shouldn't build. There are so many darned options, it's bizarre not thinking "ok, now I get boots 3 pots, into doran's x2, etc". I'm sure there must be some cookie cutter builds, but the scope of options and how fluid everything is makes the game daunting/fun.
My padherder they don't it be like it is but it do
Yeah, you can definitely build a fair amount of different stuff as per taste. If you're not sure what to build on a certain hero, what you might also consider doing is watching a pro game or two with that hero (not viable for all heroes, as many are not picked in comp) to get an idea of a solid basic build, which you can then mess around with as you see fit.
Also, if you're in a game with a hero you like and you see that they're doing well, check their build for reference; it's not necessarily a good one just because they're doing well, because pubs, but that may give you more ideas as to what items you can build.
As you play more, you'll get a better feel for what the good generic carry, support, ganker, etc. items are, and also some of the wackier stuff you can build.
I like getting aghanim's on Tiny, because you get a cool tree to haul around that cleaves, does extra damage, and increases your toss damage up to 80% late game. But it's absolutely a luxury item on him that you buy when your team has already effectively won the game.
for item builds, you really have to be conscious of some general roles, and what those roles tend to pick up. warlock, for example, is best played in a support role, and as an int support/initiator, items like force staff for mobility, mek or pipe for teamfight domination, or even blink dagger for better initiation are great pickups. the caveat to this is as a support, you probably won't be getting to much farm (also because goddamn warlock has a shit attack animation). also support stuff like courier, wards, smoke for ganks, dust for invis.
although honestly when in doubt check if your team has a mek or a pipe, if no one is building up either, make em. they literally win teamfights if only one side has them.
i've built them both at the same time on void before. won that game because its silly how an effective +600 hp basically to your entire team just straight up nullifies what the other team tries to do if they too don't have that same barrier.
edit: also, in dota spells scaling through agh's is generally not worth it, as is the case with lina and lion --- most times agh pickups are for specific effects the spell gains, like tiny being able to grab a tree, nature's prophet getting more bounces, queen of pain getting an insanely low cooldown, etc. spells are powerful enough for the early and midgame that they don't need to be super damaging in the late. plus, the most useful spells will generally always be the ones with some utility that will always last (that is, until bkbs on everyone, which is a general endgame inevitability if a game goes super long)
I like getting aghanim's on Tiny, because you get a cool tree to haul around that cleaves, does extra damage, and increases your toss damage up to 80% late game. But it's absolutely a luxury item on him that you buy when your team has already effectively won the game.
I don't think it's a luxury item on Tiny, you should have the farm to purchase it with a decent early/mid game and the extra damage against buildings will help you end the game before he becomes worthless.
Getting support items on a carry is really pubstyle and is only warranted if you have too many carries in the first place (3+).
people always complain about losing pub games, sometimes you gotta nut up to win them.
Ya and by "nutting up" informing your support to actually support instead of forfeiting the game by wasting gold on bad items. Your choice to buy support items might of been the proper choice depending on team make-ups, and the point is noted. All I'm saying is in general you shouldn't be spending your gold on support items as void or any other carry regardless if your team has a pipe or not.
My core tiny build right now is Mana boots, urn of shadows, and shadow blade. After that it's very situational, but I usually have to prioritize a BKB or some other sort of tank item, rarely get to chase a Dagon or Aghanim's.
I'm not really sure, the idea of a "tank" in these types of games is such an ephemeral thing. For me, tank items are anything that add effective health, be it flat health, resistances, or etc. The other important aspect is if you're playing a beefy initiator, you need items like BKB to let you effectively do your job.
This looks awesome. Was wondering out of the roster, who has the greatest range?
I ate the entire cake. At one point, I remember becoming aware of the oppressive fullness building inside of me, but I kept eating out of a combination of spite and stubbornness. No one could tell me not to eat an entire cake - not my mom, not Santa, not God - no one. I would eat cake whenever I damn well pleased. It was my cake and everyone else could go fuck themselves.
What do you consider as the tank items? I whenever I play omni I always think about building him tanky, but never do
mek, drum, vanguard, hood/pipe, anything with +armor. anything that makes you soak up more damage before you die. on omni i'd think you'd want soul ring and mana boots, maybe treads if you remember to switch, then go for tanky things. never really play him or see him though.
for aghs on tiny, i view it as more of 2ndary core. it is so awesome that i would build for it after i have blink. i like bottle, treads/arcane, drum, blink, aghs, hyperstone, etc. with bottle and drum, you could probably just keep treads on int and be ok most of the time for mana. arcane for sure if no bottle though. the real kicker about it is the 1.75x damage to structures. i mean, when you can take out a building in 5 hits... why wouldn't you? buriza 6th item for sure.
sniper has the greatest auto attack range due to his passive
in terms of effective range due to spells, pudge can hook people from like a screen away, nature's prophet, tinker, and morphling have the easiest global presence, earthshaker's fissure is probably the longest range stun? i think. god i love fissure.
Exactly what I wanted, thanks! ^^ (earthshaker looks absolutely brutal)
I'm sure the guide i was watching said he needs mana pots just to use his fissure more than once. coming from LoL, how important is mana management in this game?
I ate the entire cake. At one point, I remember becoming aware of the oppressive fullness building inside of me, but I kept eating out of a combination of spite and stubbornness. No one could tell me not to eat an entire cake - not my mom, not Santa, not God - no one. I would eat cake whenever I damn well pleased. It was my cake and everyone else could go fuck themselves.
sniper has the greatest auto attack range due to his passive
in terms of effective range due to spells, pudge can hook people from like a screen away, nature's prophet, tinker, and morphling have the easiest global presence, earthshaker's fissure is probably the longest range stun? i think. god i love fissure.
Exactly what I wanted, thanks! ^^ (earthshaker looks absolutely brutal)
I'm sure the guide i was watching said he needs mana pots just to use his fissure more than once. coming from LoL, how important is mana management in this game?
very important, especially compared to lol. most heroes starting mana pools let them cast their main spell twice, at the most. you need to use spells when they are useful, and harassment pokes like lol aren't as useful.
on the flipside of viewing it though, spells in dota are way more powerful early game, with stuff like tiny's avalanche + toss combo killing most heroes easily in the midgame (takes his whole mana pool to do it though!). there are some good items that help your mana, and for a hero like earthshaker, arcane boots are a godsend. you get a huge increase to your base mana pool, as well as a 45 second refresh that gives you about enough mana to fissure. early on though it is important to have at least a couple clarity potions.
God damn, Invoker is so much fun to play. Got him in a single draft game. Even when you aren't dominating the game, playing him makes you feel like such a powerhouse during every team fight.
Also, he says "Behold, the meatball!" sometimes when you cast meteor. How can you not love that?
Posts
The enemy team was so mad, they didn't even GG us. They just left like a bunch of cunts after we took bottom rax.
making sure you have enough mana for clap + ult at pretty much all times is a great way to just make panda do so much work for you. i've gone soul ring on games where i felt it was good, basically if i was already stomping on dudes in my lane and the rest of their team didn't have much burst. as long as you have clap and ult, basically no one should stand toe to toe with you in the midgame if you position properly to get big claps as well as stun/cyclone the proper dudes. fucking love panda. drums is amazing on him too, for mana problems and for chase (plus your ult units keep auras, so you'll have the passive movespeed aura on them too!)
The game is really hard to get into, but once you're just barely in and learning the nuances it becomes so much more fun than League (in my opinion of course). I think its the fact that theres so many more options available that makes it so fun and interesting.
CorriganX on Steam and just about everywhere else.
I agree, I've ended up enjoying this way more than LoL. In a lot of ways LoL is a streamlined, more simplistic game. And I don't mean that in a derogatory way either, there's still loads of strategy to be found, but a lot the roles are much more defined and the game takes away a lot of the multi-tasking complexity that Dota has. Also I don't think you'll ever find a character like Bane in LoL, who can so ridiculously abuse his nightmare on allies, and I like the fact that dota trusts the player with that kind of thing.
Also...Valve's polish and the dev team's attention to detail is just phenomenal.
valve is just putting icing on the cake with shit like baked into the client spectator/commentator replays, team support, tournament support, smart cash shop/cosmetics. ilu valve.
i had a hard time adjusting to lol when i played in its beta after playing a shit ton of dota --- i tried to play blitzcrank like pudge, which didn't work well, to say the least. there are a lot of subtleties that go counter to what the other game does. i don't know how to get past this other than just playing more --- dota and lol's learning curves are basically best taken on head first, trying to just commit things to memory through experience.
Anyone want to beta read a paranormal mystery novella? Here's your chance.
stream
That's understandable, as LoL was designed basically to be a bit more accessible and easier to pick up version of DotA, and the existing LoL habits/skills you've got will muddle the waters further. Just keep playing, preferably with friends/teammates, you'll get there.
So, y'know how most spells Rubick steals cast with a more or less instant animation? If you get Nature's Prophet's TP, it gives you what is essentially a global blink every 20 seconds, because the TP casts instantly.
Fun stuff.
That Fade Bolt nerf really did hit hard though, wow. I hadn't played him since before that patch since I haven't played original DotA in some time, and he has some serious mana problems now. Kind of a bummer. I mean, Fade Bolt needed a nerf for sure, but 150 mana at all levels and 18 (16?) CD at level 1 seems a little excessive.
Anyone want to beta read a paranormal mystery novella? Here's your chance.
stream
my best hero is probably venomancer still though. i can't believe how powerful gale is. lanes like sk/veno feel like a trilane with two heroes, did so many double kill dunks on an omni and pa (they had no real chance anyways) because they didn't respect burrow and gale's power at literally killing the fuck out of you, along with my passive and a ward or two.
like, goddamn. and that let's me just snowball out support style, upping courier fast, rewarding at 6, grabbing an early smoke to kill top, push their tower and shit.
god i love veno.
Anyone want to beta read a paranormal mystery novella? Here's your chance.
stream
Veil of discord so good.
It might be a different fraction, but you definitely go slightly shorter than full range if you try to blink outside of range. I have a 1200 range ring around my hero set up (dota_range_display 1200 in the autoexec) and if I click outside it with blink dagger, I don't go right to the edge.
Fade Bolt at 90 was insane, no doubt; I just think they swung the pendulum a bit too far in the other direction.
Spell Steal is great, but if you're against competent players it can be really hard to get good stuff if they know what they're doing. Fortunately, most pubbies don't.
The thing that really interests me is the instant cast times, though. Obviously, it should maybe be changed for some skills (Epicenter, etc) but I kinda hope they keep that in general; it's difficult to get good spells if your opponents are guarding them, so that's a cool way to both give Rubick a bit of an advantage when he does snag one as well as help compensate for the fact that if you're stealing in a teamfight they've probably already let fly with the ability.
Plus, it's just so fun. Instant Furion TP had me cracking up for about ten minutes.
What are your thoughts on Lina items right now? I've been trying to pick her up and I'm really not sure what I should be building, aside from the obvious force staff/blink dagger.
That's a damn shame, it was hilarious, although probably too good to stay.
they don't it be like it is but it do
It's very situational and depends on the ult. For example, you'll never see it on Void, but it's Core on Brewmaster.
Aghanim's is very situational.
For example, it's a waste of time on Lina or Lion, as all it does is add a few hundred extra damage to their ults; the money could be much better spent elsewhere.
On the other hand, as observed, it is core on Brewmaster, and quite strong on other heroes such as Pudge and Clockwerk.
You'll probably be able to get a feel for what's good and what's not worth the upgrade just by looking at what the upgrade gives you; generally, you're looking for some kind of extra effect or really significant buff (like Chen's Hand of God's MASSIVE cooldown reduction from 120sec to 30sec or Clockwerk's ability to Hookshot allies) and not just a minor damage uptick.
Speaking of Aghanims, I still cannot believe that they once thought it would be a good idea to give AA a 15 sec cooldown on his ult with Aghanims. That was just insane.
they don't it be like it is but it do
You'll want a Mek, and if you're warding on top of that, you will find it very difficult to scrounge up the gold for that build.
So yeah, definitely something you could do for fun if you're running away with the game or just messing around in pubs, but in a serious match it's probably not ideal unless you find yourself with a lot of spare gold.
they don't it be like it is but it do
Also, if you're in a game with a hero you like and you see that they're doing well, check their build for reference; it's not necessarily a good one just because they're doing well, because pubs, but that may give you more ideas as to what items you can build.
As you play more, you'll get a better feel for what the good generic carry, support, ganker, etc. items are, and also some of the wackier stuff you can build.
although honestly when in doubt check if your team has a mek or a pipe, if no one is building up either, make em. they literally win teamfights if only one side has them.
i've built them both at the same time on void before. won that game because its silly how an effective +600 hp basically to your entire team just straight up nullifies what the other team tries to do if they too don't have that same barrier.
edit: also, in dota spells scaling through agh's is generally not worth it, as is the case with lina and lion --- most times agh pickups are for specific effects the spell gains, like tiny being able to grab a tree, nature's prophet getting more bounces, queen of pain getting an insanely low cooldown, etc. spells are powerful enough for the early and midgame that they don't need to be super damaging in the late. plus, the most useful spells will generally always be the ones with some utility that will always last (that is, until bkbs on everyone, which is a general endgame inevitability if a game goes super long)
I don't think it's a luxury item on Tiny, you should have the farm to purchase it with a decent early/mid game and the extra damage against buildings will help you end the game before he becomes worthless.
Getting support items on a carry is really pubstyle and is only warranted if you have too many carries in the first place (3+).
Ya and by "nutting up" informing your support to actually support instead of forfeiting the game by wasting gold on bad items. Your choice to buy support items might of been the proper choice depending on team make-ups, and the point is noted. All I'm saying is in general you shouldn't be spending your gold on support items as void or any other carry regardless if your team has a pipe or not.
mek, drum, vanguard, hood/pipe, anything with +armor. anything that makes you soak up more damage before you die. on omni i'd think you'd want soul ring and mana boots, maybe treads if you remember to switch, then go for tanky things. never really play him or see him though.
for aghs on tiny, i view it as more of 2ndary core. it is so awesome that i would build for it after i have blink. i like bottle, treads/arcane, drum, blink, aghs, hyperstone, etc. with bottle and drum, you could probably just keep treads on int and be ok most of the time for mana. arcane for sure if no bottle though. the real kicker about it is the 1.75x damage to structures. i mean, when you can take out a building in 5 hits... why wouldn't you? buriza 6th item for sure.
in terms of effective range due to spells, pudge can hook people from like a screen away, nature's prophet, tinker, and morphling have the easiest global presence, earthshaker's fissure is probably the longest range stun? i think. god i love fissure.
I'm sure the guide i was watching said he needs mana pots just to use his fissure more than once. coming from LoL, how important is mana management in this game?
It's a skillshot though.
very important, especially compared to lol. most heroes starting mana pools let them cast their main spell twice, at the most. you need to use spells when they are useful, and harassment pokes like lol aren't as useful.
on the flipside of viewing it though, spells in dota are way more powerful early game, with stuff like tiny's avalanche + toss combo killing most heroes easily in the midgame (takes his whole mana pool to do it though!). there are some good items that help your mana, and for a hero like earthshaker, arcane boots are a godsend. you get a huge increase to your base mana pool, as well as a 45 second refresh that gives you about enough mana to fissure. early on though it is important to have at least a couple clarity potions.
Also, he says "Behold, the meatball!" sometimes when you cast meteor. How can you not love that?