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[Dota 2] Nyx Assassin, Keeper of the Light, and Visage this week, and straight to CM.

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    The_TuninatorThe_Tuninator Registered User regular
    edited June 2012
    spafey wrote: »
    This looks awesome. Was wondering out of the roster, who has the greatest range?

    In terms of heroes that have very large effective threat envelopes, Sniper has the most actual attack range as you level a skill which lets him outrange even other ranged heroes by at least 200-300 units, Windrunner has really good "range" in that she has both one of the best normal attacks/ranges as well as a skillshot that hits at up to 1800 units for big damage, and Pudge has the "GET OVER HERE" hook of Scorpion from MK that can go ~1200 units.

    There's also some heroes like QoP and Morphling who have blink/quasi-blink abilities which add a great deal to your effective range because you can blink and then immediately use spells/attack.

    If you're just looking for a hero with good laning power thanks to a solid attack, good choices include Sniper, Drow (orb harassing is fun), Windrunner, Viper, and probably a bunch more I'm forgetting.

    The_Tuninator on
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    CorriganXCorriganX Jacksonville, FLRegistered User regular
    I find that sniper and Drow both suffer from not having great escapes. I suggest windrunner and mirana for two ranged characters with decent escapes to practice in the beginning. :p

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    CorriganX on Steam and just about everywhere else.
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    The_TuninatorThe_Tuninator Registered User regular
    CorriganX wrote: »
    I find that sniper and Drow both suffer from not having great escapes. I suggest windrunner and mirana for two ranged characters with decent escapes to practice in the beginning. :p

    Yup, Sniper and Drow are definitely not ideal for new players, that's for sure. Particularly Sniper, Drow's at least got Frost Arrows and Silence to fall back on.

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    mtsmts Dr. Robot King Registered User regular
    CorriganX wrote: »
    I find that sniper and Drow both suffer from not having great escapes. I suggest windrunner and mirana for two ranged characters with decent escapes to practice in the beginning. :p

    there is also clinkz, but i think he is a bit harder to play than the other two

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    pardzhpardzh Registered User regular
    Clinkz is just as bad as Sniper or Drow for a new player. He has an awful attack animation and requires tons of farm.

    gt: Bobby2Socks | steam: Billy Boot-Snatcher

    You talk clean and bomb hospitals, so I speak with the foulest mouth possible
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    The_TuninatorThe_Tuninator Registered User regular
    Plus, then there'd be one more Clinkz player in the world, and that's the last thing I want.

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    undeinPiratundeinPirat Registered User regular
    yeah, you need to farm well as clinkz, as a clinkz with a like 15 minute orchid is worlds better than one with a 22 minute orchid.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] steam: undeinpirat
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    Page-Page- Registered User regular
    It's fine when you realize the most important factor in last hitting is damage. Clinkz has the worst startup animation in the world, but since he has searing arrows he can kill creeps before they can be denied.

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    The_TuninatorThe_Tuninator Registered User regular
    edited June 2012
    Yeah, Clinkz is actually really annoying to lane against since his window of opportunity for last-hitting/denying is so huge.

    Man, I hate that hero.

    The_Tuninator on
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    MaratastikMaratastik Just call me Mara, please! Registered User regular
    pardzh wrote: »
    Olorin wrote: »
    pardzh wrote: »
    I'm going fucking insane not having a PC to play the Doters on. All this new shit looks so COOL. I can't wait until they have all the kinks ironed out of speccing tournies. I'm totally up in that shit for $5, especially if half of it goes to Tobi & company.

    Will probably make a trip to the local LAN center tomorrow night and be a huge nerd on Friday instead of going out.


    No LOUUUUUUUUUUU....your PC's dead? Gotta get that up and running again!

    Yeah it bit the dust for good.

    I just finished my 2nd week at a ballin' new job though, so I've got money to burn - thinking this is a good time to finally try my hand at building a gaming PC.

    I highly recommend it. It isn't too hard and there's plenty of help on the internet. PM me here or on Steam if you want any help or suggestions. You'll definitely need to devote a full afternoon for building your first one and getting windows installed and updated. The number one thing to be prepared for is to be your own tech support. If you're comfortable with figuring out problems on your own go for it. If you'd rather just call geek squad or some other type of support for problems, then it may not be a good idea to build your own.

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    SejarkiSejarki Registered User regular
    for a hero like earthshaker, arcane boots are a godsend. you get a huge increase to your base mana pool, as well as a 45 second refresh that gives you about enough mana to fissure. early on though it is important to have at least a couple clarity potions.

    Arcane Boots and/or Soul Ring are generally godsends on strength initiators. So Earthshaker, Tidehunter, Brewmaster, Tiny, Sand King, and whoever else. Similarly they all love their Blink Daggers, but the 75 mana cost to Blink in and combo whatever can be prohibitive early game without such mana regen items.

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    übergeekübergeek Sector 2814Registered User regular
    OK, I've been doing some reading, but there isn't any solid consensus. If I play by myself, and I'd like to win for a change, assuming I don't get a leaver like I did for every game except 3 since June 2nd, who do I play? I like junglers like Prophet, Lycan and Seer, but the solo pub tends to lose his lane and bitch that I didn't come to save them when I have to run across the map. I'm open to suggestions.

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    The_TuninatorThe_Tuninator Registered User regular
    edited June 2012
    Prophet is a pretty good hero to pub with since pubs often won't be coordinated enough to deal with his pushes, or even gank jungle. Plus, TP means that you don't need to rely on your team to help you escape sticky situations.

    Other typical pubstompers include Ursa and N'aix, if memory serves, as they can wade into 2-3 heroes and kill them in about as many seconds.

    Basically, all of those heroes you listed should be fine. If your team is dumb, don't roam to save them because they'll probably die anyways. Just get kills/farm, ignore their whining and try and drag your braindead team to victory.

    It'd be nice if they added a solo queue so you didn't have the chance to go up against 5man premades if you're playing by yourself.

    The_Tuninator on
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    pardzhpardzh Registered User regular
    edited June 2012
    Sorry about bouncing on you, Olorin and Jakorian.

    I got kicked out of a LAN center that was closing. :D

    edit: ...also cool, thanks for the offer on help with building a PC. I'm generally tech savvy, and it's something I've been wanting to tackle for a while. Now seems like a good time, what with the excess of money and no working computer.

    pardzh on
    gt: Bobby2Socks | steam: Billy Boot-Snatcher

    You talk clean and bomb hospitals, so I speak with the foulest mouth possible
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    Grey PaladinGrey Paladin Registered User regular
    edited June 2012
    Clinkz is considered to have a bad animation? I found last-hitting with him the easiest thing in the world, even without the arrows.

    Grey Paladin on
    "All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity; but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dream with open eyes to make it possible." - T.E. Lawrence
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    Dac VinDac Vin S-s-screw you! I only listen to DOUBLE MUSIC! Registered User regular
    edited June 2012
    Clinkz is considered to have a bad animation? I found last-hitting with him the easiest thing in the world, even without the arrows.

    Clinkz has a bad auto-attack animation. His auto-attack damage though is very good thanks to his searing arrows. and even without them he has a very good AGI growth (boost his damage and his attack speed).

    Really, just contrast him with people like Lina, Zeus and Puck.

    Dac Vin on
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    undeinPiratundeinPirat Registered User regular
    honestly for pub stomping, death prophet. dudes can't deal with infinipushes and tons of waves. really, any ganker/semi-carry can make you win assuming you are better than your opponent. winning in spite of your team sometimes means you have to be really much better than your opponents.

    i think the thing to strive for in single matchmaking isn't win/loss, its just best individual play. am i doing the absolute best thing i could be doing right now, in this game on this hero? strive to answer yes to this at all times, and i think not only will you always have stuff to improve on/ questions about the game you will want answered that pertain to the mechanics/strategy and not the "imba dumb matchmaking algorithm" (not necessarily your complaint, just what i see a lot of the time!) -- plus sometimes you might just win because of solid play! a wonderful thing to experience.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] steam: undeinpirat
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    AresProphetAresProphet Registered User regular
    God damn, Invoker is so much fun to play. Got him in a single draft game. Even when you aren't dominating the game, playing him makes you feel like such a powerhouse during every team fight.

    Also, he says "Behold, the meatball!" sometimes when you cast meteor. How can you not love that?

    I still remember the first incarnation of DotA Invoker when he had 27 spells. He was taken out of the game for like a year+ after that.

    When they remade him, you could double-cast meteor by re-Invoking it, and it did up to 500 damage at low levels if your enemies ran into it. He could burst out some crazy damage.

    After he got a lot more balanced I still enjoyed playing him because you can do so many things. Ice Wall + Ghostwalk + Deafening Blast = disable and distract, Meteor + EMP + Cyclone = burst damage master, Alacrity + Forge Elementals + Cold Snap = support pusher. And then there's Sunstrike, glorious Sunstrike. Sunstrike kills in the fog of war were the best things, sometimes you could just predict where an enemy would be running back to the fountain and BAM free gold.

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    SejarkiSejarki Registered User regular
    edited June 2012
    übergeek wrote: »
    OK, I've been doing some reading, but there isn't any solid consensus. If I play by myself, and I'd like to win for a change, assuming I don't get a leaver like I did for every game except 3 since June 2nd, who do I play? I like junglers like Prophet, Lycan and Seer, but the solo pub tends to lose his lane and bitch that I didn't come to save them when I have to run across the map. I'm open to suggestions.

    Buy wards. Win game. Wards win games. Communicate and try to organize who's getting Mek and Pipe. Really just any sort of communication does a lot, I've lost some pub games but have had a blast regardless using the voice communication with relaxed people. It tends to lighten the mood a lot if people talk. Of course then last night we had a guy complaining we were ruining his concentration by talking so much, but he was dumb.

    Seer and Prophet are both pretty strong in lane, and then you don't lose a lane. Don't jungle without someone choosing a character who can solo lane (and even this doesn't guarantee they know how to solo lane effectively), occasionally it's worth it, usually it's not. They die a bunch and don't actually get the level bonus from solo laning, so you've totally thrown away half the benefit of having a jungler. And the enemy gets fed on the solo laner. Of course it occasionally does help to simply instruct them "just avoid dying and soak up the levels," people listen to simple crap like that and do better! It's silly. But players jungling when there's no one on the team to solo lane is one of my big pet peeves.

    I also try to avoid All Pick because it seems like people in Single Draft, and especially Random Draft, have much more solid understandings of proper team composition. This doesn't necessarily help win games, but it makes the losses less stupid.

    But this is all general stuff. Not sure there's an answer to "who do I play." If you can play a strong mid lane hero that's always great. I like Brewmaster since he can mid well and he's an initiator. Having strong initiation's always pretty vital, and he can always split and run away even if your allies are terrible at following up on the initiation.

    Sejarki on
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    Dac VinDac Vin S-s-screw you! I only listen to DOUBLE MUSIC! Registered User regular
    übergeek wrote: »
    OK, I've been doing some reading, but there isn't any solid consensus. If I play by myself, and I'd like to win for a change, assuming I don't get a leaver like I did for every game except 3 since June 2nd, who do I play? I like junglers like Prophet, Lycan and Seer, but the solo pub tends to lose his lane and bitch that I didn't come to save them when I have to run across the map. I'm open to suggestions.

    Any kind of ganking mid or heroes with a strong start, really. I know it's general as fuck, but that just means you can try out a ton of heroes filling these shoes and choose whichever clicks for you.

    Otherwise you shouldn't trust my hero choices because I'll just recommend Enchantress to you and be dead serious about it.

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    SkabSkab Registered User regular
    übergeek wrote: »
    OK, I've been doing some reading, but there isn't any solid consensus. If I play by myself, and I'd like to win for a change, assuming I don't get a leaver like I did for every game except 3 since June 2nd, who do I play? I like junglers like Prophet, Lycan and Seer, but the solo pub tends to lose his lane and bitch that I didn't come to save them when I have to run across the map. I'm open to suggestions.

    There is no real answer to this. If you're a good player then chances are whatever you go into a match intending to pick, the rest of the team will still suck 9 times out of 10. It's just the way of the universe.

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    Dac VinDac Vin S-s-screw you! I only listen to DOUBLE MUSIC! Registered User regular
    edited June 2012
    Reminder that "team is bad" and "lol pubs" works both ways. I'm certain you have examples of games you really shouldn't have won but did anyway because the enemy pub team was just that bad.

    edit: I just love that example of mine: trilane/double jungle hybrid involving Sniper/Lifestealer/Enchantress caused by pub picking/randoming, that and some heavy early game drama meant this should have been a sure loss, still managed to win because the enemy team was even worse than us.

    Dac Vin on
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    Page-Page- Registered User regular
    Yes, the best antidote to "lol pubs" is to play Prophet every game, rush agh's in the jungle, and then proceed to steal all your teams farm by pushing lanes and spamming your ult.

    Clinkz has nearly a full second of windup before he actually fires his projectile. It's awkward at first, but once you get used to it there's no problem.

    Competitive Gaming and Writing Blog Updated in October: "Song (and Story) of the Day"
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    übergeekübergeek Sector 2814Registered User regular
    edited June 2012
    honestly for pub stomping, death prophet. dudes can't deal with infinipushes and tons of waves. really, any ganker/semi-carry can make you win assuming you are better than your opponent. winning in spite of your team sometimes means you have to be really much better than your opponents.

    i think the thing to strive for in single matchmaking isn't win/loss, its just best individual play. am i doing the absolute best thing i could be doing right now, in this game on this hero? strive to answer yes to this at all times, and i think not only will you always have stuff to improve on/ questions about the game you will want answered that pertain to the mechanics/strategy and not the "imba dumb matchmaking algorithm" (not necessarily your complaint, just what i see a lot of the time!) -- plus sometimes you might just win because of solid play! a wonderful thing to experience.
    Sejarki wrote: »
    Buy wards. Win game. Wards win games. Communicate and try to organize who's getting Mek and Pipe. Really just any sort of communication does a lot, I've lost some pub games but have had a blast regardless using the voice communication with relaxed people. It tends to lighten the mood a lot if people talk. Of course then last night we had a guy complaining we were ruining his concentration by talking so much, but he was dumb.

    Seer and Prophet are both pretty strong in lane, and then you don't lose a lane. Don't jungle without someone choosing a character who can solo lane (and even this doesn't guarantee they know how to solo lane effectively), occasionally it's worth it, usually it's not. They die a bunch and don't actually get the level bonus from solo laning, so you've totally thrown away half the benefit of having a jungler. And the enemy gets fed on the solo laner. Of course it occasionally does help to simply instruct them "just avoid dying and soak up the levels," people listen to simple crap like that and do better! It's silly. But players jungling when there's no one on the team to solo lane is one of my big pet peeves.

    I also try to avoid All Pick because it seems like people in Single Draft, and especially Random Draft, have much more solid understandings of proper team composition. This doesn't necessarily help win games, but it makes the losses less stupid.

    But this is all general stuff. Not sure there's an answer to "who do I play." If you can play a strong mid lane hero that's always great. I like Brewmaster since he can mid well and he's an initiator. Having strong initiation's always pretty vital, and he can always split and run away even if your allies are terrible at following up on the initiation.

    Thanks for the advice. I guess my problem is I needed someone early to mid that can fight say.....3 people at once, simply because I'm trying to offset one lane failing. I will give Death Prophet a shot. The only reason I play all pick is that I don't have enough knowledge to play all the heroes yet, and even if I get someone I can play, the rest of the team usually doesn't, and teamcomp suffers because we have 5 carries and no CC. That sort of thing.
    Page- wrote: »
    Yes, the best antidote to "lol pubs" is to play Prophet every game, rush agh's in the jungle, and then proceed to steal all your teams farm by pushing lanes and spamming your ult.

    Clinkz has nearly a full second of windup before he actually fires his projectile. It's awkward at first, but once you get used to it there's no problem.

    Tried this, but when I jungle the the guy running solo fails most of the time, and the times I might be able to save him I'm so low on mana and health I don't want to risk giving up a second kill.

    übergeek on
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    The_TuninatorThe_Tuninator Registered User regular
    edited June 2012
    Death Prophet is a decent hero to try if you need to be able to fight 2-3 people at once, as her ult dishes out big damage, she's reasonably survivable, she can bring towers down in seconds, and silence + Carrion Swarm allow you to take on larger groups.

    You might want to check out Ursa, as he is 100% capable of wiping out a pair of heroes in no time flat if they're not careful.

    The_Tuninator on
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    übergeekübergeek Sector 2814Registered User regular
    edited June 2012
    Death Prophet is a decent hero to try if you need to be able to fight 2-3 people at once, as her ult dishes out big damage, she's reasonably survivable, she can bring towers down in seconds, and silence + Carrion Swarm allow you to take on larger groups.

    You might want to check out Ursa, as he is 100% capable of wiping out a pair of heroes in no time flat if they're not careful.

    Considered him, but I'm concerned about the high amount of hard CC the other team has, and my team never has. They'd just lock me down unless I shadowblade or blink dagger into them.

    übergeek on
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    TehSpectreTehSpectre Registered User regular
    edited June 2012
    Had a good game as Alchemist last night where I ended up going 11-9-15.

    Between some clutch stuns and some awesome teamfight potential, I really like Alch as a hero. (His acid spray gives -6 to armor and some light HP damage in a huge area for a long time. So great)

    Also, a lot of those deaths were me wading in (while ulted) to multiple heroes to save teammates and distracting the team so the rest of my bros could escape. Also, due to Goblin's Greed, I always seemed to have money and repeatedly bought back and still had fantastic items.

    TehSpectre on
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    TehSpectreTehSpectre Registered User regular
    What I am trying to say is: Fuck the haters

    9u72nmv0y64e.jpg
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    Tw4winTw4win Registered User regular
    Not to beg but does anyone have a spare beta key lying around that they aren't using? I'd love to try this out...

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    SkabSkab Registered User regular
    You don't try out Dota. It tries you out, thoroughly, with its rough calloused hands, and indifferent demeanor towards your feelings. Then when its done it discards your used body like an empty Capri Sun pouch.

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    pardzhpardzh Registered User regular
    You forgot to mention the fisting. There will be a fair amount of fisting.

    Also, I'm going back to the LAN center with a healthier idea of their hours of operation. I'm sick with the Doter addiction guys. :(

    gt: Bobby2Socks | steam: Billy Boot-Snatcher

    You talk clean and bomb hospitals, so I speak with the foulest mouth possible
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    Page-Page- Registered User regular
    I was being sarcastic.

    A Prophet that does nothing but jungle, push all the lanes, and steal all his team's farm is the worst thing in pubs. It's why the only Prophets I respect are the ones who rush dagon and do nothing but gank.

    Competitive Gaming and Writing Blog Updated in October: "Song (and Story) of the Day"
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    TehSpectreTehSpectre Registered User regular
    hmmmm

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    übergeekübergeek Sector 2814Registered User regular
    Page- wrote: »
    I was being sarcastic.

    A Prophet that does nothing but jungle, push all the lanes, and steal all his team's farm is the worst thing in pubs. It's why the only Prophets I respect are the ones who rush dagon and do nothing but gank.

    I meant the Jungle Prophet every game part not the ulting to steal cs part. Should have been more clear.

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    zanetheinsanezanetheinsane Registered User regular
    Sejarki wrote: »
    I also try to avoid All Pick because it seems like people in Single Draft, and especially Random Draft, have much more solid understandings of proper team composition.

    Basically this. Almost all pubs play All Pick because they already know what hero they are going to play (lol clankz). There are a very small amount of players that like to play so that they can counter-pick. But for the most part, your team will end up either being 5 int heroes or 5 ranged agi carries.

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    übergeekübergeek Sector 2814Registered User regular
    Sejarki wrote: »
    I also try to avoid All Pick because it seems like people in Single Draft, and especially Random Draft, have much more solid understandings of proper team composition.

    Basically this. Almost all pubs play All Pick because they already know what hero they are going to play (lol clankz). There are a very small amount of players that like to play so that they can counter-pick. But for the most part, your team will end up either being 5 int heroes or 5 ranged agi carries.

    In RD I noticed that the people with the first picks on my own team will leave something like Lycan out for the other team to pick, in favor of taking someone like Axe, the other team is filled with top tier picks and by the time I get to pick something as number 4 or 5, there's not a damn thing I can pick to offset their strong lineup. Plus the fact RD and SD are somewhat wasted by not having swap implemented yet.

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    SonelanSonelan Registered User regular
    Sometimes I wish I knew how their matchmaking worked. I've been playing with a friend and for the past 5 games over a couple days its been the same story. We do really well but there is always one pub who feeds then rage quits. This last game was especially disheartening because as Silencer and Rubick we were clearly the best two people in the game but lost because our PA decided to feed all game then when we were winning despite the PA he abandoned the game.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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    übergeekübergeek Sector 2814Registered User regular
    Sonelan wrote: »
    Sometimes I wish I knew how their matchmaking worked. I've been playing with a friend and for the past 5 games over a couple days its been the same story. We do really well but there is always one pub who feeds then rage quits. This last game was especially disheartening because as Silencer and Rubick we were clearly the best two people in the game but lost because our PA decided to feed all game then when we were winning despite the PA he abandoned the game.

    Yes! This! Other day our Mid Nightsalker was helping to offset the fail of the top lane. Suddenly in the middle of the game he's in the fountain and doesn't move fora few minutes, then disconnects. He clearly just left us when he had most of the kills and farm, and was the only hope of us winning. Don't soak up all the farm and then ditch, when I as Leshrac could have used that gold for a bloodstone and then pushed at least to their rax turrets in each lane.

    camo_sig.png
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    valiancevaliance Registered User regular
    Dark_Side wrote: »
    My core tiny build right now is Mana boots, urn of shadows, and shadow blade. After that it's very situational, but I usually have to prioritize a BKB or some other sort of tank item, rarely get to chase a Dagon or Aghanim's.

    you should probably be soloing mid as tiny. start with: quelling blade/stout shield/tangoes --> rush: boots and bottle -->start ganking/freefarm mid --> finish blink --> arcane boots --> whatever

    tiny is a really good hero overall buts hes exponentially more terrifying when he gets his blink dagger within the window when his nukes one shot people. you can basically break the game on your own if you can get that. IMO the 1000 you spend on the energy booster is better spent on getting (nearly) half your blink dagger

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    Page-Page- Registered User regular
    Can't really remember the last time I saw a rage quit.

    Competitive Gaming and Writing Blog Updated in October: "Song (and Story) of the Day"
    Anyone want to beta read a paranormal mystery novella? Here's your chance.
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