I wish people could have opinions without being insufferable douchebags about it
Like, okay, some people can think healthcare is a right while others consider it a privilege
Fine, whatever, don't call each other names
The problem here is that just because everyone has an opinion that does not mean that every opinion is valid.
edit: turns out you said exactly this, probably should have read this page first
Yeah I'm not saying we take civility down the slippery slope of relativism or give up on tackling bad ideas with logic
But we don't need to name call and sometimes you do need to accept that people won't agree on things
what do you do when people refuse to listen to logic though
go "well you're entitled to your asinine opinion that's founded in ignorance"
fuck that, you shame the fuck out of them
No you uh
you do exactly that
if you lay out your point of view and back it up with all the logic you've got and somebody does the equivalent of sticking their fingers in their ears and yelling "lalalalalala" then you disengage as best you can
shaming somebody will 1) never persuade anybody to do anything but maybe hide their opinions around you and 2) actually undermine your point of view by making it look like everybody who agrees with you is an asshole
That's not to say you shouldn't call somebody out (even the same person) whenever they bring up something that is wrong in hopes that you'll be able to persuade them but being a shitlord does nothing for anyone
but this approach doesn't allow him to yell at people on the internet
I wish people could have opinions without being insufferable douchebags about it
Like, okay, some people can think healthcare is a right while others consider it a privilege
Fine, whatever, don't call each other names
nah
Agreed. One side is right and the other is wrong. Civility doesn't factor into this.
exactly
just which side is which is up for argument
(no it's not my side is right forever and always)
buttlord didn't you spend that entire religion thread we had a few months ago talking about how everyone should be civil to each other and there's no need to make absolute judgments or call people names
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BroloBroseidonLord of the BroceanRegistered Userregular
I wish people could have opinions without being insufferable douchebags about it
Like, okay, some people can think healthcare is a right while others consider it a privilege
Fine, whatever, don't call each other names
nah
Agreed. One side is right and the other is wrong. Civility doesn't factor into this.
exactly
just which side is which is up for argument
(no it's not my side is right forever and always)
buttlord didn't you spend that entire religion thread we had a few months ago talking about how everyone should be civil to each other and there's no need to make absolute judgments or call people names
not exactly but since everyone ignored me the sixteen times i wrote out my actual point y'all can suck it
im pretty on the fence about the whole 'be nice' thing because half the time ive tried to point out something more controversial than 'slavery is bad! dont beat women' i just got flooded with stupid, thoughtless bullshit until i started yelling at everybody
but on the other end it gets kind of extreme over nothing and then youre watching two white teens screaming at eachother over shit neither of them actually understands
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ButtlordFornicusLord of Bondage and PainRegistered Userregular
im pretty on the fence about the whole 'be nice' thing because half the time ive tried to point out something more controversial than 'slavery is bad! dont beat women' i just got flooded with stupid, thoughtless bullshit until i started yelling at everybody
but on the other end it gets kind of extreme over nothing and then youre watching two white teens screaming at eachother over shit neither of them actually understands
"don't hit women" can get pretty controversial if you say it around the right/wrong people
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BroloBroseidonLord of the BroceanRegistered Userregular
im pretty on the fence about the whole 'be nice' thing because half the time ive tried to point out something more controversial than 'slavery is bad! dont beat women' i just got flooded with stupid, thoughtless bullshit until i started yelling at everybody
but on the other end it gets kind of extreme over nothing and then youre watching two white teens screaming at eachother over shit neither of them actually understands
"don't hit women" can get pretty controversial if you say it around the right/wrong people
as a mra I find it a pretty exclusionary and sexist statement
im pretty on the fence about the whole 'be nice' thing because half the time ive tried to point out something more controversial than 'slavery is bad! dont beat women' i just got flooded with stupid, thoughtless bullshit until i started yelling at everybody
but on the other end it gets kind of extreme over nothing and then youre watching two white teens screaming at eachother over shit neither of them actually understands
"don't hit women" can get pretty controversial if you say it around the right/wrong people
as a mra I find it a pretty exclusionary and sexist statement
"no but see violence against MEN is underreported, clearly this is because of WOMEN and not because of the same problems that feminism is trying to deal with. sperm-jacking whores."
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Quoththe RavenMiami, FL FOR REALRegistered Userregular
Yeah, that's the thing, you can find jerks out there who really do think stuff like "women are for making babies and rubbing my feet"
All you can do is try to show them otherwise without being a dick
"does feminism mean i get to hit women? its not fair if i still cant'
-an actual sentiment expressed on these boards
last summer the front man for a semi-famous punk band punched a girl in the face for throwing ice at him at a show
now, leaving aside that he was playing in the late 80s and 90s and should be used to having shit thrown at him particularly shit as harmless as an ice cube, the way the "scene" was divided between "whoa that's fucked up" and "ACT LIKE A MAN GET HIT LIKE A MAN DON'T LIKE IT MAYBE BE A LADY" was insane
pretty sure a couple bands got death threats for dropping off a fest the dude had organized for a mnth or two down the road over it
i usually gauge the people by how they behave at punk concerts
well he's also a massive shitlord outside of shows too (speaking from personal interactions with the guy) but that's not the point
hitting people for throwing shit at you hasn't been a thing in 20 years since henry rollins stopped calling nazi skinheads out to fight him onstage mid-set
his reaction was way over the line and the fact that people were defending him blew my mind
(also one of the people who pulled him away was a woman and i'm pretty sure he took a swing at her too)
don't hit women is kinda silly in it's phrasing because it implies hitting dudes is a-ok
don't hit people is better?
just
don't hit
I think those are two good, but separate messages.
yeah i mean usually when people are talking about not hitting women, they are specifically talking about not being abusive toward women in your life who you supposedly care about and who have come to trust you
not like some girl you got into an argument with outside a bar
in both those cases, obviously you should not hit them. but the factors involved with each of them are fundamentally different
Posts
I prefer to make my opponents into ridiculous strawmen.
Must...feed...inferiority complex...
if you can't change somebody's mind you let them know that their abhorrent opinions aren't going to be tolerated in any way shape or form
the easiest way to do this is to treat them like shitlords
ironically enough though i'm just gonna agree to disagree on this one
inject that shit straight into my eyeballs
"yeah well watch this I MADE A BLACK GUY CHARACTER SPLADOW TOTALLY BETTER NOW"
- a thing that literally happened
buttlord didn't you spend that entire religion thread we had a few months ago talking about how everyone should be civil to each other and there's no need to make absolute judgments or call people names
BOOM
he wasn't even black, he was some kind of sick looking darkish off-yellow
it was like he tried to draw a black guy but his hand rebelled and wouldn't select an actual brown skin tone on the color palette
not exactly but since everyone ignored me the sixteen times i wrote out my actual point y'all can suck it
PSN: Robo_Wizard1
internet every time I think you've hurt me for the last time you find a new way to draw blood
"wait...what?"
"ha you can't follow my stupid non-logic. idiot."
Sometimes it's not really about changing anyone's mind. Sometimes it's about treating something that should be unacceptable as unacceptable.
It does depend on the opinion, maybe, but I think even the most heinous ideas are unlikely to be eradicated by sheer counter-vitriol
It's like trying to kill a cobra with its own venom
I am disappoint
PS4:MrZoompants
The challenge arises these days when there is no common set of facts to work with
If you can't agree on a foundation, you're building on quicksand
Your castle of logic will just sink into the swamp
but on the other end it gets kind of extreme over nothing and then youre watching two white teens screaming at eachother over shit neither of them actually understands
"don't hit women" can get pretty controversial if you say it around the right/wrong people
as a mra I find it a pretty exclusionary and sexist statement
-an actual sentiment expressed on these boards
"no but see violence against MEN is underreported, clearly this is because of WOMEN and not because of the same problems that feminism is trying to deal with. sperm-jacking whores."
All you can do is try to show them otherwise without being a dick
don't hit people is better?
just
don't hit
last summer the front man for a semi-famous punk band punched a girl in the face for throwing ice at him at a show
now, leaving aside that he was playing in the late 80s and 90s and should be used to having shit thrown at him particularly shit as harmless as an ice cube, the way the "scene" was divided between "whoa that's fucked up" and "ACT LIKE A MAN GET HIT LIKE A MAN DON'T LIKE IT MAYBE BE A LADY" was insane
pretty sure a couple bands got death threats for dropping off a fest the dude had organized for a mnth or two down the road over it
How do you gauge people who don't go to punk concerts?
can you even call them "people" if they don't go to punk concerts
well he's also a massive shitlord outside of shows too (speaking from personal interactions with the guy) but that's not the point
hitting people for throwing shit at you hasn't been a thing in 20 years since henry rollins stopped calling nazi skinheads out to fight him onstage mid-set
his reaction was way over the line and the fact that people were defending him blew my mind
(also one of the people who pulled him away was a woman and i'm pretty sure he took a swing at her too)
I think those are two good, but separate messages.
punch everyone
constantly
do not stop punching
if we all punch
the best punchers will trickle down
freedom
punch bears is ok though
sharks too
then no one will be
PSN: Robo_Wizard1
As a bear
yeah i mean usually when people are talking about not hitting women, they are specifically talking about not being abusive toward women in your life who you supposedly care about and who have come to trust you
not like some girl you got into an argument with outside a bar
in both those cases, obviously you should not hit them. but the factors involved with each of them are fundamentally different
favorite katamari cousin
mine is....miso....no june.i think