Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
I'm trying to get a clearer picture of what it entails from people who are more knowledgable about it than I.
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
Because, evidently, when women exhibit behavioral patterns in men that make people go "UH THIS IS A PROBLEM" they apparently sometimes go "OH HOW QUIRKY, ISN'T IT ADORABLE" when it manifests in women.
Yeah, that's a pretty serious cultural issue. Young boys are supposed to be loud and wild and get investigated if they aren't. Young girls are supposed to be quiet and play with dolls, and it's much harder to spot spectrum symptoms because of that.
Unless, of course, they're too loud and wild and in that case they get treated for ADHD.
Can someone give me a rundown of what the spectrum entails, exactly?
I find it funny that you're asking about the exact details of a spectrum. :P
The way I've had it explained, the spectrum goes from high functioning to low functioning. The further along you go, the more difficulty you have communicating and socialising, and the harder it is for you to break your routine. People with severe autism sometimes have no verbal communication at all and generally have acute learning disabilities.
My younger brother is on the spectrum. Nearly all of his knowledge about the world comes through watching cartoons. He is working part time, but it is run through an agency that helps place people with ASD with employers.
He is the most positive person that I have ever known. He recently told my stepmom, "Do you know what I do when I'm depressed? I cheer myself up!"
My brother in law, whenever someone says something down on themself or says they can't do something, always says "It's never too late if you care."
Which I'm not sure where he picked that up from, but it is actually pretty great.
and I wonder about my neighbors even though I don't have them
but they're listening to every word I say
Can someone give me a rundown of what the spectrum entails, exactly?
I find it funny that you're asking about the exact details of a spectrum. :P
The way I've had it explained, the spectrum goes from high functioning to low functioning. The further along you go, the more difficulty you have communicating and socialising, and the harder it is for you to break your routine. People with severe autism sometimes have no verbal communication at all and generally have acute learning disabilities.
Also, from what I've read it doesn't sound like a sliding scale. It affects (effects?) different areas with different severity. So some people may be perfectly capable of taking care of themselves independently, but are not able to communicate verbally. Other people with autism may not be able to live independently, but are fine with verbal communication. Some people with autism can live independently, and communicate verbally, but can't pick up nonverbal cues.
So it really depends on the person and sometimes even how that specific person is feeling that specific day. (If I'm wrong, please correct me.)
In Munkus's defense, autism is not well defined when searching it up on the internet (and I don't want to put too much stock into a google search anyways) so it is nice to have some clarification from people who have talked to professionals and are more educated than a layperson.
I don't think anyone denies the spectrum's existence, but rather we just don't quite know what it consists of.
A lot of people on tumblr (hold your groans plz) describe it as "I don't experience my autism on a spectrum, the spectrum is how it influences your perception of me". Absolutely there are non-verbal people who can write incredibly eloquently if you give them a computer, people who are really having a hard time holding their shit together but on the surface you would never know because they meet society's definition of 'high functioning', etc etc etc
lots of people don't like functioning labels because it kind of implies gross things, or because it causes misunderstandings from oversimplification - if you're a harvard graduate who lives independently but you can't control your bodily functions and have to wear depends, are you high or low functioning? it's not as simple as all that, is it? also if I have to wear depends but it doesn't bother me at all, but you find it tragic, which one of us is the one with the real problem?
autism is definitely one of those areas where there's a looooooot of arguing, between caretakers and 'allies' and people who actually have autism and are 'high' or 'low' functioning, if you want to have a good time ask ten different people in those categories their opinion on autism speaks
It does seem like everything gets further complicated by the fact that sensory issues differ between people with autism, and therefore (stealing your example) some people may not be able to stand the idea of wearing depends at all, so to those people the idea of having to wear them would be a tragic thing. And then in that case, can you really blame them for feeling that way, especially if part of their social issues is trouble understanding other people feel differently about things than they do?
It does seem like everything gets further complicated by the fact that sensory issues differ between people with autism, and therefore (stealing your example) some people may not be able to stand the idea of wearing depends at all, so to those people the idea of having to wear them would be a tragic thing. And then in that case, can you really blame them for feeling that way, especially if part of their social issues is trouble understanding other people feel differently about things than they do?
And then you have totally stupid (sorry mom but seriously) perceptions like when I talked to my mom about the possibility I might be on the spectrum, and all these common symptoms/traits that my sister and dad and I share, and how much it would explain about all these little quirks and things that have always made me feel so much like an alien, my mom said "well but if you were autistic wouldn't you like to wear tight clothes and stuff?" like... what
(I) Qualitative impairment in social interaction, as manifested by at least two of the following:
(A) marked impairments in the use of multiple nonverbal behaviors such as eye-to-eye gaze, facial expression, body posture, and gestures to regulate social interaction
(B) failure to develop peer relationships appropriate to developmental level
(C) a lack of spontaneous seeking to share enjoyment, interest or achievements with other people, (e.g.. by a lack of showing, bringing, or pointing out objects of interest to other people)
(D) lack of social or emotional reciprocity
(II) Restricted repetitive & stereotyped patterns of behavior, interests and activities, as manifested by at least one of the following:
(A) encompassing preoccupation with one or more stereotyped and restricted patterns of interest that is abnormal either in intensity or focus
(B) apparently inflexible adherence to specific, nonfunctional routines or rituals
(C) stereotyped and repetitive motor mannerisms (e.g. hand or finger flapping or twisting, or complex whole-body movements)
(D) persistent preoccupation with parts of objects
It does seem like everything gets further complicated by the fact that sensory issues differ between people with autism, and therefore (stealing your example) some people may not be able to stand the idea of wearing depends at all, so to those people the idea of having to wear them would be a tragic thing. And then in that case, can you really blame them for feeling that way, especially if part of their social issues is trouble understanding other people feel differently about things than they do?
And then you have totally stupid (sorry mom but seriously) perceptions like when I talked to my mom about the possibility I might be on the spectrum, and all these common symptoms/traits that my sister and dad and I share, and how much it would explain about all these little quirks and things that have always made me feel so much like an alien, my mom said "well but if you were autistic wouldn't you like to wear tight clothes and stuff?" like... what
Yeah, that's just weird. And the exact opposite of what I would have expected the misconceptions to be. Most of the special ed kids at my grade/high schools preferred looser clothing and shunned jeans. (I personally refused to wear jeans until high school, and didn't wear them regularly until college. I still prefer dress pants or dresses.)
(I) Qualitative impairment in social interaction, as manifested by at least two of the following:
(A) marked impairments in the use of multiple nonverbal behaviors such as eye-to-eye gaze, facial expression, body posture, and gestures to regulate social interaction
(B) failure to develop peer relationships appropriate to developmental level
(C) a lack of spontaneous seeking to share enjoyment, interest or achievements with other people, (e.g.. by a lack of showing, bringing, or pointing out objects of interest to other people)
(D) lack of social or emotional reciprocity
(II) Restricted repetitive & stereotyped patterns of behavior, interests and activities, as manifested by at least one of the following:
(A) encompassing preoccupation with one or more stereotyped and restricted patterns of interest that is abnormal either in intensity or focus
(B) apparently inflexible adherence to specific, nonfunctional routines or rituals
(C) stereotyped and repetitive motor mannerisms (e.g. hand or finger flapping or twisting, or complex whole-body movements)
(D) persistent preoccupation with parts of objects
keep in mind that the understanding of autism has expanded over the years
so this list is by no means the entirety of signifiers
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
That list also uses the word stereotype a bunch and I don't know how to feel about that.
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
A behavior is defined as stereotypy when it fits the requisite form, which involves repetition, rigidity, and invariance, as well as a tendency to be inappropriate in nature.
might anybody have any information or data on the rates of incidences of autism spectrum disorders over the last few decades (or any appreciable length of time really)? I was also wondering if there is there any studies on "cultural" influences, as nebulous as that question is?
(just to be absolutely clear I in no way mean to sound condescending/imply anything: I'm just genuinely interested in the topic, not to mention as someone who can check off a few of the boxes on the list of symptoms)
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UnbrokenEvaHIGH ON THE WIREBUT I WON'T TRIP ITRegistered Userregular
edited March 2015
so this happened. A kid with Asperger's was having a shitty 13th birthday, with no other kids responding to his invite to hang out, so his mom, trying to do what she could to make the day better for him, put out a call on a parents group for their town to ask people to wish him a happy birthday.
It... got a little out of hand, in fantastic ways. The town of Peterborough basically turned out to throw him a party, including a someone dropping off a cake for him at his favourite restaurant, and twitter blew up (it's still the top trending topic in Canada) with birthday wishes from everyone from Elijah Wood to the Toronto Blue Jays (who invited him to a game this summer) to Hayley Wickenheiser (a 6 time olympian and the greatest female hockey player in the world), to Justin Trudeau, the leader of one of the main federal political parties (and quite possibly next Prime Minister).
Also looking at some of the pictures from the FB page his mom set up, I'm pretty sure someone sent a limo to pick him and his mom up and take them to the bowling alley. Peterborough, you're a cool town.
I'm totally cool with being autistic. It's part of who I am, and I'm becoming more and more OK with who I am.
One of the only problems that seems impossible to deal with is my dad.
Out of all of my family members, he's the only one who flat-out refuses to accept that I have autism. Every time it comes up it's either the insinuation that I'm hiding behind a label, or just him treating the whole thing like a joke, "ass-burgers" and all (funnily enough that joke doesn't play in the UK, since we pronounce it a different way, but he's American).
I love the guy, but the grim truth is that his attitude towards the whole thing makes it impossible for me to trust or connect with him any more.
I have another friend who's dealing with almost the exact same circumstance - on the Autistic spectrum, father who refuses to accept it - so I have to wonder if it's a common thing.
Has anyone else here had problems with family members as a result of their diagnosis?
I'm totally cool with being autistic. It's part of who I am, and I'm becoming more and more OK with who I am.
One of the only problems that seems impossible to deal with is my dad.
Out of all of my family members, he's the only one who flat-out refuses to accept that I have autism. Every time it comes up it's either the insinuation that I'm hiding behind a label, or just him treating the whole thing like a joke, "ass-burgers" and all (funnily enough that joke doesn't play in the UK, since we pronounce it a different way, but he's American).
I love the guy, but the grim truth is that his attitude towards the whole thing makes it impossible for me to trust or connect with him any more.
I have another friend who's dealing with almost the exact same circumstance - on the Autistic spectrum, father who refuses to accept it - so I have to wonder if it's a common thing.
Has anyone else here had problems with family members as a result of their diagnosis?
I'm not an expert or anything, so take this as my opinion and with a grain of salt, but I believe that this stems from issues that are more at home in the Feminism thread. I think that what's at play here is the idea held by many men, especially those from a generation or more back, that they can't have a child/family member be "out of the ordinary" because it "reflects badly on them as a father." This is a recurring theme spelled out by people from many other walks of life, those that are transgender, homosexual, autistic, physically disabled, etc. It's shitty, but it's also a symptom of a larger cultural problem. Not to say that they should or shouldn't be given much leniency, but for some people breaking that line of thought and the baggage that comes with it can be very difficult.
I'm totally cool with being autistic. It's part of who I am, and I'm becoming more and more OK with who I am.
One of the only problems that seems impossible to deal with is my dad.
Out of all of my family members, he's the only one who flat-out refuses to accept that I have autism. Every time it comes up it's either the insinuation that I'm hiding behind a label, or just him treating the whole thing like a joke, "ass-burgers" and all (funnily enough that joke doesn't play in the UK, since we pronounce it a different way, but he's American).
I love the guy, but the grim truth is that his attitude towards the whole thing makes it impossible for me to trust or connect with him any more.
I have another friend who's dealing with almost the exact same circumstance - on the Autistic spectrum, father who refuses to accept it - so I have to wonder if it's a common thing.
Has anyone else here had problems with family members as a result of their diagnosis?
my mom was surprisingly cool with it
although, I dropped the trans bomb on her a couple years back, so everything probably feels like small potatoes to her by comparison
they haven't really had the talk about it, but I don't live with them, or have physically seen them for almost two years
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I'm totally cool with being autistic. It's part of who I am, and I'm becoming more and more OK with who I am.
One of the only problems that seems impossible to deal with is my dad.
Out of all of my family members, he's the only one who flat-out refuses to accept that I have autism. Every time it comes up it's either the insinuation that I'm hiding behind a label, or just him treating the whole thing like a joke, "ass-burgers" and all (funnily enough that joke doesn't play in the UK, since we pronounce it a different way, but he's American).
I love the guy, but the grim truth is that his attitude towards the whole thing makes it impossible for me to trust or connect with him any more.
I have another friend who's dealing with almost the exact same circumstance - on the Autistic spectrum, father who refuses to accept it - so I have to wonder if it's a common thing.
Has anyone else here had problems with family members as a result of their diagnosis?
I'm not an expert or anything, so take this as my opinion and with a grain of salt, but I believe that this stems from issues that are more at home in the Feminism thread. I think that what's at play here is the idea held by many men, especially those from a generation or more back, that they can't have a child/family member be "out of the ordinary" because it "reflects badly on them as a father." This is a recurring theme spelled out by people from many other walks of life, those that are transgender, homosexual, autistic, physically disabled, etc. It's shitty, but it's also a symptom of a larger cultural problem. Not to say that they should or shouldn't be given much leniency, but for some people breaking that line of thought and the baggage that comes with it can be very difficult.
And then some people are just buttholes.
I'd like to add something to this, based on the way my dad dealt with finding out I'm dyslexic/had learning disabilities. Some people have this idea that if there's something "wrong" with the child, there's something wrong with the parent. My dad refuses to believe that he's anything less that perfect, so therefore, his kids were fine and I couldn't have dyslexia. I just wasn't working hard enough, checking my work enough, trying hard enough, staying focused, or something along those lines. It took years for him to admit I had learning problems. And then he blamed it on my mom's side of the family
I knew I had Aspergers for a while, but it wasn't until I went back to community college in 2008 that I began to understand how different I seem to be from a lot of other students.
Primarily in where my strengths and weaknesses lay.
In piano class, I struggled a LOT with sight reading. I never really got any good at it.
Meanwhile, my memorization was kind of of the charts in comparison to everyone else.
I picked up basic piano stuff really fast, and was way ahead of where the teacher was having us work at in the book.
At the same time, I had a very difficult time focusing on his lessons, and found that I straight-up missed entirely sections of his lectures and didn't have any idea about some of the stuff I was supposed to know by the first major test.
That was pretty embarrassing.
However, I was also making headway in memorizing Moonlight Sonata, so there's that.
I also learned in my return to college that my learning abilities are very kinesthetic, and that I did really well in courses that involved in-class assignments, while I did HORRIBLY in lectures.
In lecture classes, I found I basically learned nothing because I couldn't really comprehend what was being explained if I didn't have the opportunity to actually DO anything in the class.
As such, my schooling hasn't gone well.
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Sir FabulousMalevolent Squid GodRegistered Userregular
This is a good thread. I'm happy it's around.
I think I can empathize with people who self-diagnose with autism. I mean, the symptoms are so varied that it's pretty much impossible to not have some symptoms (I never was able to stand the feel of jeans). Everyone has things they need to cope with.
My parents are good people and took me to a child psychologist when I was young and they started noticing some potential symptoms and I wasn't diagnosed. Now whenever I think about autism I can say 'well, they didn't diagnose me at the part of my life where it would be most noticeable, so what's the point now.'
I've also worked with many children on the autism spectrum, mostly low-functioning. Those experiences have made me a better person. It's made me pretty balanced between understanding the limitations of people with autism, while also reinforcing the fact that these are still people with individual personalities and strengths. Essentially, I'm glad that I'm not one of those people that goes 'Oh yeah, I've known some people with autism. Those poor bastards. Such a terrible thing. They need all the help they can get.'
Not sure what my ultimate goal was with this post. Just adding my voice to the crowd. I hope this thread can continue to encourage discussion about autism for a long time to come.
If you self diagnose you should probably follow up with a psychologist
And if you're diagnosed as high functioning and are not even sure whether you have it, well
For mild forms of disorders, especially psychological disorders, specificity sucks. You get false positives all the time. The cardinal rule is - is whatever the disorder's syndrome is significantly interfering with your life and functionality? If not, who cares?
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The problem with that it it's not always crystal clear why certain things are more difficult.
For instance, I do my best to be outgoing and sociable but I always feel like I'm missing a piece of the puzzle. From my perspective, I'm doing nothing wrong, but I just seem to get different results when I do the same thing other people do.
For a long time, even with things like that, I still had some deep doubts over whether I was autistic.
(but yes self-diagnosis is not in any case the place to stop at)
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Andy JoeWe claim the land for the highlord!The AdirondacksRegistered Userregular
I was one of those kids who had an ADD diagnosis for a while (even took Ritalin in the middle of the school day) before an Asperger's one. This was back in the '90s, before the DSM just changed it to high-functioning, of course.
I still find non-routine personal interactions kind of stressful, but not unmanageably so. I've gotten pretty good at recognizing sarcasm and basic social cues, and can usually pass off the occasional instance of transgressive behavior as a joke. I'm not as physically sensitive as in childhood, I used to hate wearing watches or socks, now it's not really that bothersome. Obsessiveness is better too, I think my attention has become more diffused across several different interest, although occasionally I do get really invested in something.
On recent thing is I get annoyed if I'm reading a web browser tab that's not on the far left or right, and I'll drag it over to one side if I have to. Not sure if that's an autism thing or not.
I think the world might be a safer place if everyone were on the spectrum. I've never heard of a serial killer with autism or a kid with Asperger's go shooting up a school.
Keep on keeping on, you wonderful people, you titans of men (and women).
I don't know if you're joking, but you might want to google around that idea.
I said I'd never heard of one. Don't burst my bubble =(
Joking aside, every person on the spectrum I've met has been super nice, so my personal experience provides me enough anecdotal evidence that I can be comfortable in saying they are, on average, nicer than "regular-ass" adults.
Physical sensitivity is one of things that just blew my mind when I found out it was a part of autism
For me, I've always found it either distressing or actually physically painful when someone's slapped my back unexpectedly.
How the heck does my high-functioning autism have such a direct effect like that
I still have these moments? Whether it's related to asd or adhd, could go either way with as much overlap as there is, but seriously even at 32 years old sometimes I'm like oh, wait, maybe there's a reason why I find having to wear certain clothing items to be the equivalent of someone tying me down and licking me all over the face. Like winter jackets! They aren't painful, but they're seriously so uncomfortable and distressing no matter how well they fit. Unless it is god's gift to winter jackets it is really as uncomfortable as someone pinning me down and licking me all over my face would be. It's not hurting me, but I would just really rather not OK can we please just
I have gone through one of the worst winters on record in Rochester, NY, land of lake effect snow and sub-zero windchills, wearing only t-shirts and hoodies. That's how fucking no jackets are
see, I like heavy jackets, blankets, etc. because they shield me from additional stimulus
the hypersensitivity revolves around high pitches of sound, and high frequencies of light
pencil scratching fucking hurts to even think about, and fluorescent lights force me to squint unless I want to squint or rocket toward a state of freeze
school was really awesome, mmhmm
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see, I like heavy jackets, blankets, etc. because they shield me from additional stimulus
the hypersensitivity revolves around high pitches of sound, and high frequencies of light
pencil scratching fucking hurts to even think about, and fluorescent lights force me to squint unless I want to squint or rocket toward a state of freeze
school was really awesome, mmhmm
I like hoodies and blankets, I just have some weird thing about restriction of shoulders and wrists in some particular way. Like the lead blanket at the dentist, that shit is so soothing, because it doesn't touch my wrists or pin my shoulders. I hate fluros too and I wear my hood up in class semi-regularly, also useful for isolating the heck out of myself, only negative is teachers who want to try to ask me if I'm asleep or whatever. Nothing compares to those mortal enemies of tags in shirts, those gentle touches that it seems like everyone else finds soothing except for me like with fingertips jesus who likes that shit, and socks that have toe seams that are not exactly perfect
someone I follow on tumblr said if autistic childhood is wearing the same shirt over and over again because it's the only comfortable thing you own, autistic adulthood is buying 12 of that shirt in different colors so nobody will ask you why you keep wearing it all the time
I think the world might be a safer place if everyone were on the spectrum. I've never heard of a serial killer with autism or a kid with Asperger's go shooting up a school.
On that note, a study here in Swedistan found that people with undiagnosed ADHD were massively over-represented in the prison population.
Imagine if they'd been diagnosed and got assistance earlier in their life.
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Sir FabulousMalevolent Squid GodRegistered Userregular
If you self diagnose you should probably follow up with a psychologist
And if you're diagnosed as high functioning and are not even sure whether you have it, well
For mild forms of disorders, especially psychological disorders, specificity sucks. You get false positives all the time. The cardinal rule is - is whatever the disorder's syndrome is significantly interfering with your life and functionality? If not, who cares?
I feel as though my life wouldn't really change if I got a diagnosis. I have some social difficulties, but I think that everyone does. Mine don't have a big impact on my life. S'why I don't feel a need to go to a psychologist about this.
But to talk more about people who actually do have autism, when I was working with disabled children (in this case, specifically children with low-functioning autism), I was always astounded at the differences in parenting. I mean, none of the parents I saw were bad people. After all, they had to be proactive enough to seek out and establish a connection with the organization I was working with, and I think truly "bad" parents wouldn't even bother. But there was a wide range of attitudes I observed.
Some parents would say things like "Oh, he/she is just like every other kid. Just do this thing and everything will be okay. Don't take it easy on them." And I would think 'Well, your kid isn't like every other kid, but there's nothing wrong with that. Obviously there are going to be some things that they struggle with, otherwise they wouldn't be diagnosed with autism. So of course I'm going to take it easy with respect to those things. Equal treatment isn't necessarily fair treatment.'
And on the other end some parents would say "Well, he/she doesn't really do anything. We don't expect him/her to learn anything or interact in any way with anybody. Just make sure that he/she doesn't hurt him/herself." Which also rubbed me the wrong way because as I worked with the kids, I definitely learned about their personalities. They certainly had likes and dislikes and were able to interact with those likes and dislikes in meaningful ways. I didn't hold any illusions that we formed a strong social bond or anything like that, but it seemed a bit fatalistic for the parents to tell me that their child had no personality traits whatsoever.
Most parents were somewhere in between though. And I understood that it wasn't really my place to tell these parents how to ralk about their kids because I only worked with them for a couple weeks and the parents obviously look after them every day.
So, interesting insights into parents of children with autism.
see, I like heavy jackets, blankets, etc. because they shield me from additional stimulus
the hypersensitivity revolves around high pitches of sound, and high frequencies of light
pencil scratching fucking hurts to even think about, and fluorescent lights force me to squint unless I want to squint or rocket toward a state of freeze
school was really awesome, mmhmm
I like hoodies and blankets, I just have some weird thing about restriction of shoulders and wrists in some particular way. Like the lead blanket at the dentist, that shit is so soothing, because it doesn't touch my wrists or pin my shoulders. I hate fluros too and I wear my hood up in class semi-regularly, also useful for isolating the heck out of myself, only negative is teachers who want to try to ask me if I'm asleep or whatever. Nothing compares to those mortal enemies of tags in shirts, those gentle touches that it seems like everyone else finds soothing except for me like with fingertips jesus who likes that shit, and socks that have toe seams that are not exactly perfect
someone I follow on tumblr said if autistic childhood is wearing the same shirt over and over again because it's the only comfortable thing you own, autistic adulthood is buying 12 of that shirt in different colors so nobody will ask you why you keep wearing it all the time
See, this is the sort of thing that makes me pause and go "hmmmmmmmm....."
I know I'll probably never get a professional diagnosis at this point because I've been decent at social stuff since high school-ish. (It's hard to tell when exactly I got a handle on social interaction because in the 4th grade I realized that everybody I went to school was super catty and mean and therefore being friends with them wasn't worth it. So I refused to hang out with with anybody (except my best friend who didn't live in the state) until high school when I was able to meet some nice people who actually shared my interests.)
But the sensory issues? That is so, so me. I can't wear make-up, moisturizer, sunscreen or any kind of lotion or creme because the feeling makes me want to claw my skin off. My mom had to badger me for years to just get me to start using a lip-balm. There is only one lip-balm I can tolerate wearing, and it took me over a month to get used to it.
I had a sunhat as a kid, that I would wear to get out of wearing sunscreen. It was the only hat I would tolerate wearing, and I don't see that style of hat very often. (Especially that style of hat made with a cotton fabric.) So when I grew out of that hat, I stole my mom's adult version of the hat. Because even though it is the dorkiest looking hat ever and my entire family makes fun of me for wearing it, the hat is reasonably comfortable and if I wear it I don't have to wear sunscreen. (I also wear a thin white long sleeved cotton shirt to avoid sunscreen, even though I over heat easily. That is how much sunscreen bothers me.)
I own the same kind of shorts in seven different colors because I hate shorts and that one specific kind is really the only one I can stand wearing. I used to do the same thing with shirts, but my mom eased me out of doing that in high school. She also got me to start buying different pairs of pants. I used to have four jeans of the exact same cut/style from the Gap which I wore all through high school.
Or food textures? I cannot eat foods where solids and liquids commingle, unless there is only a very, very thin coating of the liquid over the solid. So like, pasta with a bit of pesto is fine. But most soups and stews are just not an option for me. It feels like eating somebody else's vomit. And I have to buy milk that was stored at the back of the milk section, away from the shelf lights, because the milk at the front tastes gross. (Don't try to tell me it doesn't, my mom tried to lie to me about buying back-of-the-shelf milk when I was a kid and it didn't work. I can tell the difference and front-milk is disgusting.) I can tell if my mom has cooked food even slightly differently than she normally prepares it. If she bought meat from a different store, used a different brand of butter to bake cookies, put a teaspoon less sugar in the tupperware container's worth of granola she made. I may not be able to tell exactly what she did, but I can tell something's different.
......Sorry. I don't get to talk about this stuff very often and got kind of over-enthusiastic.
Seriously though, it sounds like you would have been a pretty standard case if not for your Mom monitoring your behavior and making sure you learned to deal with them before they grew worse and became life-obstructing.
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Unless, of course, they're too loud and wild and in that case they get treated for ADHD.
I find it funny that you're asking about the exact details of a spectrum. :P
The way I've had it explained, the spectrum goes from high functioning to low functioning. The further along you go, the more difficulty you have communicating and socialising, and the harder it is for you to break your routine. People with severe autism sometimes have no verbal communication at all and generally have acute learning disabilities.
My brother in law, whenever someone says something down on themself or says they can't do something, always says "It's never too late if you care."
Which I'm not sure where he picked that up from, but it is actually pretty great.
but they're listening to every word I say
Also, from what I've read it doesn't sound like a sliding scale. It affects (effects?) different areas with different severity. So some people may be perfectly capable of taking care of themselves independently, but are not able to communicate verbally. Other people with autism may not be able to live independently, but are fine with verbal communication. Some people with autism can live independently, and communicate verbally, but can't pick up nonverbal cues.
So it really depends on the person and sometimes even how that specific person is feeling that specific day. (If I'm wrong, please correct me.)
I don't think anyone denies the spectrum's existence, but rather we just don't quite know what it consists of.
lots of people don't like functioning labels because it kind of implies gross things, or because it causes misunderstandings from oversimplification - if you're a harvard graduate who lives independently but you can't control your bodily functions and have to wear depends, are you high or low functioning? it's not as simple as all that, is it? also if I have to wear depends but it doesn't bother me at all, but you find it tragic, which one of us is the one with the real problem?
autism is definitely one of those areas where there's a looooooot of arguing, between caretakers and 'allies' and people who actually have autism and are 'high' or 'low' functioning, if you want to have a good time ask ten different people in those categories their opinion on autism speaks
And then you have totally stupid (sorry mom but seriously) perceptions like when I talked to my mom about the possibility I might be on the spectrum, and all these common symptoms/traits that my sister and dad and I share, and how much it would explain about all these little quirks and things that have always made me feel so much like an alien, my mom said "well but if you were autistic wouldn't you like to wear tight clothes and stuff?" like... what
https://medium.com/@alascii
Yeah, that's just weird. And the exact opposite of what I would have expected the misconceptions to be. Most of the special ed kids at my grade/high schools preferred looser clothing and shunned jeans. (I personally refused to wear jeans until high school, and didn't wear them regularly until college. I still prefer dress pants or dresses.)
keep in mind that the understanding of autism has expanded over the years
so this list is by no means the entirety of signifiers
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https://medium.com/@alascii
It is using a clinical definition of the term 'stereotyped.' In this case, it means repetitive behavior:
Here's a link to the The National Center for Biotechnology Information definition for autism-related sterotypical behavior.
(just to be absolutely clear I in no way mean to sound condescending/imply anything: I'm just genuinely interested in the topic, not to mention as someone who can check off a few of the boxes on the list of symptoms)
It... got a little out of hand, in fantastic ways. The town of Peterborough basically turned out to throw him a party, including a someone dropping off a cake for him at his favourite restaurant, and twitter blew up (it's still the top trending topic in Canada) with birthday wishes from everyone from Elijah Wood to the Toronto Blue Jays (who invited him to a game this summer) to Hayley Wickenheiser (a 6 time olympian and the greatest female hockey player in the world), to Justin Trudeau, the leader of one of the main federal political parties (and quite possibly next Prime Minister).
Also looking at some of the pictures from the FB page his mom set up, I'm pretty sure someone sent a limo to pick him and his mom up and take them to the bowling alley. Peterborough, you're a cool town.
I'm totally cool with being autistic. It's part of who I am, and I'm becoming more and more OK with who I am.
One of the only problems that seems impossible to deal with is my dad.
Out of all of my family members, he's the only one who flat-out refuses to accept that I have autism. Every time it comes up it's either the insinuation that I'm hiding behind a label, or just him treating the whole thing like a joke, "ass-burgers" and all (funnily enough that joke doesn't play in the UK, since we pronounce it a different way, but he's American).
I love the guy, but the grim truth is that his attitude towards the whole thing makes it impossible for me to trust or connect with him any more.
I have another friend who's dealing with almost the exact same circumstance - on the Autistic spectrum, father who refuses to accept it - so I have to wonder if it's a common thing.
Has anyone else here had problems with family members as a result of their diagnosis?
I'm not an expert or anything, so take this as my opinion and with a grain of salt, but I believe that this stems from issues that are more at home in the Feminism thread. I think that what's at play here is the idea held by many men, especially those from a generation or more back, that they can't have a child/family member be "out of the ordinary" because it "reflects badly on them as a father." This is a recurring theme spelled out by people from many other walks of life, those that are transgender, homosexual, autistic, physically disabled, etc. It's shitty, but it's also a symptom of a larger cultural problem. Not to say that they should or shouldn't be given much leniency, but for some people breaking that line of thought and the baggage that comes with it can be very difficult.
And then some people are just buttholes.
They just consistently forget that I'm autistic
my mom was surprisingly cool with it
although, I dropped the trans bomb on her a couple years back, so everything probably feels like small potatoes to her by comparison
they haven't really had the talk about it, but I don't live with them, or have physically seen them for almost two years
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I'd like to add something to this, based on the way my dad dealt with finding out I'm dyslexic/had learning disabilities. Some people have this idea that if there's something "wrong" with the child, there's something wrong with the parent. My dad refuses to believe that he's anything less that perfect, so therefore, his kids were fine and I couldn't have dyslexia. I just wasn't working hard enough, checking my work enough, trying hard enough, staying focused, or something along those lines. It took years for him to admit I had learning problems. And then he blamed it on my mom's side of the family
like, anything that denotes "inferiority," no matter how beyond one's control it is, gets people in a tizzy
and I don't consider autism an inferiority in the slightest, our brains just work differently
which, honestly, I think is pretty goddamn rad concept
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Primarily in where my strengths and weaknesses lay.
In piano class, I struggled a LOT with sight reading. I never really got any good at it.
Meanwhile, my memorization was kind of of the charts in comparison to everyone else.
I picked up basic piano stuff really fast, and was way ahead of where the teacher was having us work at in the book.
At the same time, I had a very difficult time focusing on his lessons, and found that I straight-up missed entirely sections of his lectures and didn't have any idea about some of the stuff I was supposed to know by the first major test.
That was pretty embarrassing.
However, I was also making headway in memorizing Moonlight Sonata, so there's that.
I also learned in my return to college that my learning abilities are very kinesthetic, and that I did really well in courses that involved in-class assignments, while I did HORRIBLY in lectures.
In lecture classes, I found I basically learned nothing because I couldn't really comprehend what was being explained if I didn't have the opportunity to actually DO anything in the class.
As such, my schooling hasn't gone well.
I think I can empathize with people who self-diagnose with autism. I mean, the symptoms are so varied that it's pretty much impossible to not have some symptoms (I never was able to stand the feel of jeans). Everyone has things they need to cope with.
My parents are good people and took me to a child psychologist when I was young and they started noticing some potential symptoms and I wasn't diagnosed. Now whenever I think about autism I can say 'well, they didn't diagnose me at the part of my life where it would be most noticeable, so what's the point now.'
I've also worked with many children on the autism spectrum, mostly low-functioning. Those experiences have made me a better person. It's made me pretty balanced between understanding the limitations of people with autism, while also reinforcing the fact that these are still people with individual personalities and strengths. Essentially, I'm glad that I'm not one of those people that goes 'Oh yeah, I've known some people with autism. Those poor bastards. Such a terrible thing. They need all the help they can get.'
Not sure what my ultimate goal was with this post. Just adding my voice to the crowd. I hope this thread can continue to encourage discussion about autism for a long time to come.
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And if you're diagnosed as high functioning and are not even sure whether you have it, well
For mild forms of disorders, especially psychological disorders, specificity sucks. You get false positives all the time. The cardinal rule is - is whatever the disorder's syndrome is significantly interfering with your life and functionality? If not, who cares?
Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
The problem with that it it's not always crystal clear why certain things are more difficult.
For instance, I do my best to be outgoing and sociable but I always feel like I'm missing a piece of the puzzle. From my perspective, I'm doing nothing wrong, but I just seem to get different results when I do the same thing other people do.
For a long time, even with things like that, I still had some deep doubts over whether I was autistic.
(but yes self-diagnosis is not in any case the place to stop at)
I still find non-routine personal interactions kind of stressful, but not unmanageably so. I've gotten pretty good at recognizing sarcasm and basic social cues, and can usually pass off the occasional instance of transgressive behavior as a joke. I'm not as physically sensitive as in childhood, I used to hate wearing watches or socks, now it's not really that bothersome. Obsessiveness is better too, I think my attention has become more diffused across several different interest, although occasionally I do get really invested in something.
On recent thing is I get annoyed if I'm reading a web browser tab that's not on the far left or right, and I'll drag it over to one side if I have to. Not sure if that's an autism thing or not.
For me, I've always found it either distressing or actually physically painful when someone's slapped my back unexpectedly.
How the heck does my high-functioning autism have such a direct effect like that
Keep on keeping on, you wonderful people, you titans of men (and women).
I said I'd never heard of one. Don't burst my bubble =(
Joking aside, every person on the spectrum I've met has been super nice, so my personal experience provides me enough anecdotal evidence that I can be comfortable in saying they are, on average, nicer than "regular-ass" adults.
I still have these moments? Whether it's related to asd or adhd, could go either way with as much overlap as there is, but seriously even at 32 years old sometimes I'm like oh, wait, maybe there's a reason why I find having to wear certain clothing items to be the equivalent of someone tying me down and licking me all over the face. Like winter jackets! They aren't painful, but they're seriously so uncomfortable and distressing no matter how well they fit. Unless it is god's gift to winter jackets it is really as uncomfortable as someone pinning me down and licking me all over my face would be. It's not hurting me, but I would just really rather not OK can we please just
I have gone through one of the worst winters on record in Rochester, NY, land of lake effect snow and sub-zero windchills, wearing only t-shirts and hoodies. That's how fucking no jackets are
the hypersensitivity revolves around high pitches of sound, and high frequencies of light
pencil scratching fucking hurts to even think about, and fluorescent lights force me to squint unless I want to squint or rocket toward a state of freeze
school was really awesome, mmhmm
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I like hoodies and blankets, I just have some weird thing about restriction of shoulders and wrists in some particular way. Like the lead blanket at the dentist, that shit is so soothing, because it doesn't touch my wrists or pin my shoulders. I hate fluros too and I wear my hood up in class semi-regularly, also useful for isolating the heck out of myself, only negative is teachers who want to try to ask me if I'm asleep or whatever. Nothing compares to those mortal enemies of tags in shirts, those gentle touches that it seems like everyone else finds soothing except for me like with fingertips jesus who likes that shit, and socks that have toe seams that are not exactly perfect
someone I follow on tumblr said if autistic childhood is wearing the same shirt over and over again because it's the only comfortable thing you own, autistic adulthood is buying 12 of that shirt in different colors so nobody will ask you why you keep wearing it all the time
On that note, a study here in Swedistan found that people with undiagnosed ADHD were massively over-represented in the prison population.
Imagine if they'd been diagnosed and got assistance earlier in their life.
I feel as though my life wouldn't really change if I got a diagnosis. I have some social difficulties, but I think that everyone does. Mine don't have a big impact on my life. S'why I don't feel a need to go to a psychologist about this.
But to talk more about people who actually do have autism, when I was working with disabled children (in this case, specifically children with low-functioning autism), I was always astounded at the differences in parenting. I mean, none of the parents I saw were bad people. After all, they had to be proactive enough to seek out and establish a connection with the organization I was working with, and I think truly "bad" parents wouldn't even bother. But there was a wide range of attitudes I observed.
Some parents would say things like "Oh, he/she is just like every other kid. Just do this thing and everything will be okay. Don't take it easy on them." And I would think 'Well, your kid isn't like every other kid, but there's nothing wrong with that. Obviously there are going to be some things that they struggle with, otherwise they wouldn't be diagnosed with autism. So of course I'm going to take it easy with respect to those things. Equal treatment isn't necessarily fair treatment.'
And on the other end some parents would say "Well, he/she doesn't really do anything. We don't expect him/her to learn anything or interact in any way with anybody. Just make sure that he/she doesn't hurt him/herself." Which also rubbed me the wrong way because as I worked with the kids, I definitely learned about their personalities. They certainly had likes and dislikes and were able to interact with those likes and dislikes in meaningful ways. I didn't hold any illusions that we formed a strong social bond or anything like that, but it seemed a bit fatalistic for the parents to tell me that their child had no personality traits whatsoever.
Most parents were somewhere in between though. And I understood that it wasn't really my place to tell these parents how to ralk about their kids because I only worked with them for a couple weeks and the parents obviously look after them every day.
So, interesting insights into parents of children with autism.
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See, this is the sort of thing that makes me pause and go "hmmmmmmmm....."
I know I'll probably never get a professional diagnosis at this point because I've been decent at social stuff since high school-ish. (It's hard to tell when exactly I got a handle on social interaction because in the 4th grade I realized that everybody I went to school was super catty and mean and therefore being friends with them wasn't worth it. So I refused to hang out with with anybody (except my best friend who didn't live in the state) until high school when I was able to meet some nice people who actually shared my interests.)
But the sensory issues? That is so, so me. I can't wear make-up, moisturizer, sunscreen or any kind of lotion or creme because the feeling makes me want to claw my skin off. My mom had to badger me for years to just get me to start using a lip-balm. There is only one lip-balm I can tolerate wearing, and it took me over a month to get used to it.
I had a sunhat as a kid, that I would wear to get out of wearing sunscreen. It was the only hat I would tolerate wearing, and I don't see that style of hat very often. (Especially that style of hat made with a cotton fabric.) So when I grew out of that hat, I stole my mom's adult version of the hat. Because even though it is the dorkiest looking hat ever and my entire family makes fun of me for wearing it, the hat is reasonably comfortable and if I wear it I don't have to wear sunscreen. (I also wear a thin white long sleeved cotton shirt to avoid sunscreen, even though I over heat easily. That is how much sunscreen bothers me.)
I own the same kind of shorts in seven different colors because I hate shorts and that one specific kind is really the only one I can stand wearing. I used to do the same thing with shirts, but my mom eased me out of doing that in high school. She also got me to start buying different pairs of pants. I used to have four jeans of the exact same cut/style from the Gap which I wore all through high school.
Or food textures? I cannot eat foods where solids and liquids commingle, unless there is only a very, very thin coating of the liquid over the solid. So like, pasta with a bit of pesto is fine. But most soups and stews are just not an option for me. It feels like eating somebody else's vomit. And I have to buy milk that was stored at the back of the milk section, away from the shelf lights, because the milk at the front tastes gross. (Don't try to tell me it doesn't, my mom tried to lie to me about buying back-of-the-shelf milk when I was a kid and it didn't work. I can tell the difference and front-milk is disgusting.) I can tell if my mom has cooked food even slightly differently than she normally prepares it. If she bought meat from a different store, used a different brand of butter to bake cookies, put a teaspoon less sugar in the tupperware container's worth of granola she made. I may not be able to tell exactly what she did, but I can tell something's different.
......Sorry. I don't get to talk about this stuff very often and got kind of over-enthusiastic.
Seriously though, it sounds like you would have been a pretty standard case if not for your Mom monitoring your behavior and making sure you learned to deal with them before they grew worse and became life-obstructing.
That seems pretty good on her, really.