So glad that they didn't have cassian and Jyn fall in love. I really dislike the whole "I know you for about 2 days, let's make babies because whatever stuff."
I thought it became evident that they were falling in love towards the end there and they knew they weren't going to make it so they just made do with whatever time they had left? Cause no one eye fucks someone that hard on an elevator ride and come out of it not feeling some type of way.
I felt like they were feeling things for each other but
It was SO not in the typical hollywood way, and I appreciated that. Typical hollywood would have them kissing at the end of the movie, or have them like, falling on top of each other as the ship got bumped and awkwardly blushing or whatever.
it was more like brotherhood/sisterhood to start, they learned from each other and inspired each other and at the end felt strongly connected maybe even in a slightly romantic way, but not in a heavy handed or cliche way. I thought it was awesome.
Some of my fav moments near the end are when Cassian is actually looking to Jyn as a leader. Even moments where he's about to do something and he looks at her and she nods "yes do it" are just great.
I'd have to re-watch it again, @So It Goes , but there were moments where I could tell Cassian was falling for her so it never felt like to me a brotherhood/sisterhood kind of thing. It very much reminded me of Han and Leia (especially now that I've watched the original trilogy again for New Years eve). I wanted them to kiss, but I respect that they didn't.
I also got the feeling that the blind monk and the guy with the big awesome gun were a couple. My dad didn't see it and he was actually upset people were proposing that. I was like "Uh, to me it was pretty clear they were a couple?"
My conservative brother was really upset when I said the two asian dudes were a couple.
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
His aunt and uncle's scorched bodies definitely gave me nightmares as a kid
@Shivahn actually re-watching the trilogy for NYE made me notice the bodies for the first time. Like I always stared at the hut being on fire, but something made me look down and to the right (probably Sarks saying something) and I was like "Holy jesus."
Don't know what sort of Saturday morning cartoons you were watching, but generally they don't have a ton of parent death, or killing off all the heroes.
Noble deaths are common as fuck in kids entertainment (books, tv shows, movies, etc). Mentors buy it all the time for instance.
So in other words, if Saw was the only one who had died, it would be like a Very Special episode of a Saturday morning cartoon.
My dude, we are talking about literally every new character given more lines than you can count on one hand dead at the end of the film.
That's not what you asked. You said "generally they don't have a ton of parent death, or killing off all the heroes" and I'm pointing out that parent/mentor death is actually fairly common in children's entertainment. As is someone sacrificing themselves for the greater good. This is pretty standard stuff.
Seriously, Saw dying is so standard it could be out of a show or movie for any age bracket. (Also really dumb but that's another matter)
Hell, Luke loses two mentors and a father in the original trilogy. Two of those violently, on-screen.
We never see his aunt and uncle get killed, just the bodies. And Obi Won goes down bloodlessly.
Forgot them. So yeah adoptive "parents" killed off screen (with bodies seen) two mentors die (Ben and Yoda, the former violently onscreen), and we end with his father killed violently onscreen by the emperor as part of his redemption. That's five deaths of family/mentors in the original trilogy.
He didn't have to be a Jedi. But I do also like non-Jedi/Sith force users being introduced. The elder lady in TFA, who gives Rey the lightsaber, she was cool too.
I'm still convinced she's going to be related to Snoke somehow
Ex-wife?
Rey's a bit young to have married and then divorced a sith lord.
Maz (the subject of Yak's original comment, and thus by rules of grammar, nexus' ambiguous reply)
...Maz being Snoke would be awesome, now that I think about it. Way to twist up the whole ancient mentor concept! AND give Lupita more to do!
You know what? Nanowrimo's cancelled on account of the world is stupid.
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Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
edited January 2017
Surprised to see so much criticism leveled at R1. Yeah, it ain't perfect, but I'd say it's better than any of the films outside the OT (which I say as somebody who enjoyed TFA quite a bit, despite the many issues), possibly nudging ANH out of the number 3 slot for me. The tone is wildly different and it was awesome to finally have a Star Wars film where everything wasn't centered around Jedi, Sith, and the Force; there's a universe of trillions in the setting, and this is the first film showing what it's like when you don't have a space wizard-warrior in your pocket to help you. And overall, the film does a pretty good job of driving home just how really one-sided the fight against the Empire was, far moreso than anything the OT ever does. Also pretty great to see people on the Rebellion side as not-quite-white-knights-in-shining armor, up to and including all the division among the various leaders.
The ending also honestly astonished me, in a good way. I was all but certain that a shuttle would swing in at the last second and save at least the last two, but nope. Waaaay heavier stuff than I would have ever expected to be allowed in a Star Wars movie, that anyone would actually be allowed to wipe out all those characters in the same film they get introduced in. And yet, the grim ending runs right into the beginning of the OT and so we know the Rebels do win in the end.
And fucking hell, that last bit with Vader. Seven other movies, and none of them ever bothered to actually show why Vader was such a terrifying entity, or even why Force users are so incredible to anyone else in the setting (even the all-flash-no-substance prequels always had the Jedi and Sith facing off against peers of some kind, never in really one-sided fights). Damn right you'd spread some tales of terror if you were one of the lucky bastards to survive seeing that coming at you down a corridor filled with bodies and screaming, batting aside shots without effort and killing people without even touching them. Not to mention that it was also a sequence of visceral, weighty force like we see later in the OT, as opposed to the soulless CGI-fueled jump-flippy crap from the prequels.
As much as the prequel trilogy thoroughly crapped on the Star Wars setting, I'm hoping to hell that were get more one-offs like this for the OT films. Added so much more to Star Wars than "Light versus Dark!" and "Jedi versus Sith!".
There was definitely an un-Vader-like swing to the dude's step, too. It went well with his pun.
Vader did just step out of a nice relaxing bacta bath; he was probably feeling pretty good at the moment.
If he hadn't been wearing the mask, he probably would have winked at Krennic as he made his joke.
GNU Terry Pratchett
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Yeah Mim, I think the fact we both read it slightly differently is a testament to the choice not to write an overt cliche romance plot. Folks can get romance out of it but others can experience the movie being distracted by the usual "required" romance.
Surprised to see so much criticism leveled at R1. Yeah, it ain't perfect, but I'd say it's better than any of the films outside the OT (which I say as somebody who enjoyed TFA quite a bit, despite the many issues), possibly nudging ANH out of the number 3 slot for me. The tone is wildly different and it was awesome to finally have a Star Wars film where everything wasn't centered around Jedi, Sith, and the Force; there's a universe of trillions in the setting, and this is the first film showing what it's like when you don't have a space wizard-warrior in your pocket to help you. And overall, the film does a pretty good job of driving home just how really one-sided the fight against the Empire was, far moreso than anything the OT ever does. Also pretty great to see people on the Rebellion side as not-quite-white-knights-in-shining armor, up to and including all the division among the various leaders.
The ending also honestly astonished me, in a good way. I was all but certain that a shuttle would swing in at the last second and save at least the last two, but nope. Waaaay heavier stuff than I would have ever expected to be allowed in a Star Wars movie, that anyone would actually be allowed to wipe out all those characters in the same film they get introduced in. And yet, the grim ending runs right into the beginning of the OT and so we know the Rebels do win in the end.
And fucking hell, that last bit with Vader. Seven other movies, and none of them ever bothered to actually show why Vader was such a terrifying entity, or even why Force users are so incredible to anyone else in the setting (even the all-flash-no-substance prequels always had the Jedi and Sith facing off against peers of some kind, never in really one-sided fights). Damn right you'd spread some tales of terror if you were one of the lucky bastards to survive seeing that coming at you down a corridor filled with bodies and screaming, batting aside shots without effort and killing people without even touching them. Not to mention that it was also a sequence of visceral, weighty force like we see later in the OT, as opposed to the soulless CGI-fueled jump-flippy crap from the prequels.
As much as the prequel trilogy thoroughly crapped on the Star Wars setting, I'm hoping to hell that were get more one-offs like this for the OT films. Added so much more to Star Wars than "Light versus Dark!" and "Jedi versus Sith!".
Umm....you do remember that in the original trilogy the Imperial Navy's primary purpose seemed to be providing hot and cold running admirals for Vader to choke out, even from two Star Destroyers over, right? Or Old Ben regulating on fools in the cantina?
But yeah, side from that, this was basically my take on the movie. Loved it, will watch it again.
There was definitely an un-Vader-like swing to the dude's step, too. It went well with his pun.
Vader did just step out of a nice relaxing bacta bath; he was probably feeling pretty good at the moment.
If he hadn't been wearing the mask, he probably would have winked at Krennic as he made his joke.
Come on Vader was always a cheeky bitch when he was choking a dude out
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Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
Surprised to see so much criticism leveled at R1. Yeah, it ain't perfect, but I'd say it's better than any of the films outside the OT (which I say as somebody who enjoyed TFA quite a bit, despite the many issues), possibly nudging ANH out of the number 3 slot for me. The tone is wildly different and it was awesome to finally have a Star Wars film where everything wasn't centered around Jedi, Sith, and the Force; there's a universe of trillions in the setting, and this is the first film showing what it's like when you don't have a space wizard-warrior in your pocket to help you. And overall, the film does a pretty good job of driving home just how really one-sided the fight against the Empire was, far moreso than anything the OT ever does. Also pretty great to see people on the Rebellion side as not-quite-white-knights-in-shining armor, up to and including all the division among the various leaders.
The ending also honestly astonished me, in a good way. I was all but certain that a shuttle would swing in at the last second and save at least the last two, but nope. Waaaay heavier stuff than I would have ever expected to be allowed in a Star Wars movie, that anyone would actually be allowed to wipe out all those characters in the same film they get introduced in. And yet, the grim ending runs right into the beginning of the OT and so we know the Rebels do win in the end.
And fucking hell, that last bit with Vader. Seven other movies, and none of them ever bothered to actually show why Vader was such a terrifying entity, or even why Force users are so incredible to anyone else in the setting (even the all-flash-no-substance prequels always had the Jedi and Sith facing off against peers of some kind, never in really one-sided fights). Damn right you'd spread some tales of terror if you were one of the lucky bastards to survive seeing that coming at you down a corridor filled with bodies and screaming, batting aside shots without effort and killing people without even touching them. Not to mention that it was also a sequence of visceral, weighty force like we see later in the OT, as opposed to the soulless CGI-fueled jump-flippy crap from the prequels.
As much as the prequel trilogy thoroughly crapped on the Star Wars setting, I'm hoping to hell that were get more one-offs like this for the OT films. Added so much more to Star Wars than "Light versus Dark!" and "Jedi versus Sith!".
Umm....you do remember that in the original trilogy the Imperial Navy's primary purpose seemed to be providing hot and cold running admirals for Vader to choke out, even from two Star Destroyers over, right? Or Old Ben regulating on fools in the cantina?
But yeah, side from that, this was basically my take on the movie. Loved it, will watch it again.
Only other Imperials would've seen the dead admirals stuff anyway, and Obi-Wan dealing with Cantina Tough Guy lasted about a second and a half (and was more of a blur than anything else). Those are both a far, far cry from seeing organized soldiers hosing down a hallway with blaster fire and the shots being less effective at slowing Vader down than Vader simply stopping to kill guys.
That sequence also really really underscores why Luke was such a big deal to the Alliance, because they finally had somebody on their side who could stand up to that sort of stuff. Yeah, Luke lost to Vader at Bespin, but Luke fought Vader 1v1 and lived; that right there would've been some pretty legendary shit.
I get that the technology wasn't there to really show Vader kicking ass for the OT, but having it for R1 finally showed what it would be like to face off against the guy when you aren't watching from the viewpoint of the Big Heroes.
Ninja Snarl P on
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Golden YakBurnished BovineThe sunny beaches of CanadaRegistered Userregular
He didn't have to be a Jedi. But I do also like non-Jedi/Sith force users being introduced. The elder lady in TFA, who gives Rey the lightsaber, she was cool too.
I'm still convinced she's going to be related to Snoke somehow
Ex-wife?
maybe the same race or something.
Oh, something Star Wars related that really disappointed me.
Snoke isn't a giant, that was just a really big hologram.
QUESTION
After going to the rainy base Cassian is like "yo, Yavin 4 gogo". To the imperial pilot convert they've known for a few days.
Now I'm wondering how is it possible that the empire doesn't know the rebel HQ is on Yavin 4? I guess this goes for all of the films. They seem so lax with the info, and there are likely several thousand people there at the base. All of them obviously know where they are. Incoming and outgoing supplies etc.
Like either the empire doesn't know, which I don't believe would be possible for them not to know. Or they feel like they couldn't take the HQ out on a heads on assault, which I also don't believe.
It's because the movie treats it's characters like a party in an RPG. They ran into these people and so they collected them and now they just get carted around because that's just how the RPG works.
I mean, he picks up two randos on that first planet that gets lasered and they just tag along for the rest of the movie without the movie ever really saying why. But hey, you can't dump party members in most RPGs and they can carry extra supplies in their packs if you run out of inventory space between towns I guess.
Dude, the empire just nuked their city. They more or less got dragged along by default at first and after that? You think the two temple guards aren't going to want in on the rest of the fight?
Shyke basically nailed it with his point. The characters of Rogue One feel like an RPG party made up of people who haven't done much roleplaying before and aren't very comfortable with it. They have cool character concepts like 'Blind force monk' or they just looked at the equipment page and decided that they were going to be the big heavy weapons guy with a laser machine gun, but they haven't thought about their characters personalities at all.
You say that of course the two temple guards aren't going to want in on the rest of the fight? Show me a scene where either of them expresses any concern or grief about the fact that their city was wiped off the face of the world. Hell tell me a single personality trait of either of those characters, everybody in that film is crazy dull and flat, there's no life to any of them and the dialogue has two settings expository info-dumps or quips at the camera.
Forest Whitaker tells us that his psychic tentacle beast drives people insane when it steals the truth from it's victims minds, the initial prison scene with the Pilot he's a little out of it, but beyond that scene he has no lines that aren't entirely exposition, he just exists to express facts. Why isn't there anything in the film about this guy being distrusted for being a turncoat Imperial, how did Galin make this guy feel guilty about being a transport pilot?
It's a very pretty film but there's zero substance to any of the characters and it's much weaker for it. The film asks us to feel sorrow when the heroes die in the climactic assault, it never established anything about any of them so it's impossible to care. Somebody was talking earlier in this thread about how they felt that blind force monk and heavy weapons guy were a couple, which says a lot about the power of projecting onto a blank canvas, as there's no character, personality, emotion or purpose in either of those characters.
That whole tentacle beast thing did seem out of place and obviously went nowhere. I get they were tryiing to show Saw as completely paranoid and willing to do horrible things in his fight, but since it looks like they cut everything that would have shown his character had changed in the years since Jyn last saw him, it lessened the potential impact we could have got from that meeting.
As for Bohdi, I figured the brain thing would either play out as them dragging him along partially functional only to be a major liability at some point in the story or for him to be a necessary part of their team, but be a bit crazy, like Murdock from the A-Team. But going from drooling and staring at nothing to perfectly fine in 5 seconds was kind of dumb and again made its inclusion rather pointless.
Just remember that half the people you meet are below average intelligence.
He didn't have to be a Jedi. But I do also like non-Jedi/Sith force users being introduced. The elder lady in TFA, who gives Rey the lightsaber, she was cool too.
I'm still convinced she's going to be related to Snoke somehow
Ex-wife?
maybe the same race or something.
Oh, something Star Wars related that really disappointed me.
Snoke isn't a giant, that was just a really big hologram.
We haven't seen him in person, so there's still hope.
That whole tentacle beast thing did seem out of place and obviously went nowhere. I get they were tryiing to show Saw as completely paranoid and willing to do horrible things in his fight, but since it looks like they cut everything that would have shown his character had changed in the years since Jyn last saw him, it lessened the potential impact we could have got from that meeting.
As for Bohdi, I figured the brain thing would either play out as them dragging him along partially functional only to be a major liability at some point in the story or for him to be a necessary part of their team, but be a bit crazy, like Murdock from the A-Team. But going from drooling and staring at nothing to perfectly fine in 5 seconds was kind of dumb and again made its inclusion rather pointless.
Well basically everything from that section of the film was pointless so it fits right in.
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Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
Forest Whitaker tells us that his psychic tentacle beast drives people insane when it steals the truth from it's victims minds, the initial prison scene with the Pilot he's a little out of it, but beyond that scene he has no lines that aren't entirely exposition, he just exists to express facts. Why isn't there anything in the film about this guy being distrusted for being a turncoat Imperial, how did Galin make this guy feel guilty about being a transport pilot?
I can think of a whole list of reasons why they aren't crazy suspicious of the guy:
-he underwent HUGE risk to bring them intel
-he cooperates right away with the people he thinks are the Rebels
-pretty much everybody in the Rebellion is an ex-Imperial and they're definitely all ex-Imperial citizens
-he just watched the Empire casually blow up a city for not much reason
-converts are frequently the most dedicated to a cause
Personally, I hate when stories go on and on with paranoid suspicion; it quickly reaches a point where it accomplishes nothing fruitful, and it just gets annoying story-wise. It's pretty reasonable to me that they found another willing volunteer and just went "fuck it, either he's gonna betray us or he's not, there's nothing we can do to force the issue".
Heck, how many of their own fighter pilots were former Imperial pilots? Is everybody in the Rebellion supposed to be suspicious of all of them forever as well?
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-Loki-Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining.Registered Userregular
You say that of course the two temple guards aren't going to want in on the rest of the fight? Show me a scene where either of them expresses any concern or grief about the fact that their city was wiped off the face of the world.
It's funny because that scene was in the film. When they're on the U-Wing headed for Edau. Chirrut is sitting there, and baze is staring our the window into hyperspace. Chirrut asks Baze 'Is it gone? Tell me, is it gone?', Baze turns around and murmurs 'It's gone'. They both looked pretty upset.
It's pretty obvious Chirrut, not being able to see, didn't know what the fuck was going on when they made a run for it, but had an idea, so he was asking Baze about it.
They probably should have left Baze's scene in from the trailer where he says 'You took away our homes' before firing down on the base on Edau though during the X-Wing attack.
-Loki- on
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FakefauxCóiste BodharDriving John McCain to meet some Iraqis who'd very much like to make his acquaintanceRegistered Userregular
You say that of course the two temple guards aren't going to want in on the rest of the fight? Show me a scene where either of them expresses any concern or grief about the fact that their city was wiped off the face of the world. Hell tell me a single personality trait of either of those characters, everybody in that film is crazy dull and flat, there's no life to any of them and the dialogue has two settings expository info-dumps or quips at the camera.
That's basically their very first scenes post Jedha. On the U-Wing, in hyperspace, Chirrut demands to know what happened to the holy city. Baze doesn't want to tell him, but Churrut forces it out of him and they're both clearly stricken by the realization. Then, their next individual scene is when Chirrut decides to leave the U-Wing and help the others. Baze expresses cynicism about this and Chirrut invokes their friendship. Baze reluctantly follows.
Surprised to see so much criticism leveled at R1. Yeah, it ain't perfect, but I'd say it's better than any of the films outside the OT (which I say as somebody who enjoyed TFA quite a bit, despite the many issues), possibly nudging ANH out of the number 3 slot for me. The tone is wildly different and it was awesome to finally have a Star Wars film where everything wasn't centered around Jedi, Sith, and the Force; there's a universe of trillions in the setting, and this is the first film showing what it's like when you don't have a space wizard-warrior in your pocket to help you. And overall, the film does a pretty good job of driving home just how really one-sided the fight against the Empire was, far moreso than anything the OT ever does. Also pretty great to see people on the Rebellion side as not-quite-white-knights-in-shining armor, up to and including all the division among the various leaders.
The ending also honestly astonished me, in a good way. I was all but certain that a shuttle would swing in at the last second and save at least the last two, but nope. Waaaay heavier stuff than I would have ever expected to be allowed in a Star Wars movie, that anyone would actually be allowed to wipe out all those characters in the same film they get introduced in. And yet, the grim ending runs right into the beginning of the OT and so we know the Rebels do win in the end.
And fucking hell, that last bit with Vader. Seven other movies, and none of them ever bothered to actually show why Vader was such a terrifying entity, or even why Force users are so incredible to anyone else in the setting (even the all-flash-no-substance prequels always had the Jedi and Sith facing off against peers of some kind, never in really one-sided fights). Damn right you'd spread some tales of terror if you were one of the lucky bastards to survive seeing that coming at you down a corridor filled with bodies and screaming, batting aside shots without effort and killing people without even touching them. Not to mention that it was also a sequence of visceral, weighty force like we see later in the OT, as opposed to the soulless CGI-fueled jump-flippy crap from the prequels.
As much as the prequel trilogy thoroughly crapped on the Star Wars setting, I'm hoping to hell that were get more one-offs like this for the OT films. Added so much more to Star Wars than "Light versus Dark!" and "Jedi versus Sith!".
Umm....you do remember that in the original trilogy the Imperial Navy's primary purpose seemed to be providing hot and cold running admirals for Vader to choke out, even from two Star Destroyers over, right? Or Old Ben regulating on fools in the cantina?
But yeah, side from that, this was basically my take on the movie. Loved it, will watch it again.
Only other Imperials would've seen the dead admirals stuff anyway, and Obi-Wan dealing with Cantina Tough Guy lasted about a second and a half (and was more of a blur than anything else). Those are both a far, far cry from seeing organized soldiers hosing down a hallway with blaster fire and the shots being less effective at slowing Vader down than Vader simply stopping to kill guys.
That sequence also really really underscores why Luke was such a big deal to the Alliance, because they finally had somebody on their side who could stand up to that sort of stuff. Yeah, Luke lost to Vader at Bespin, but Luke fought Vader 1v1 and lived; that right there would've been some pretty legendary shit.
I get that the technology wasn't there to really show Vader kicking ass for the OT, but having it for R1 finally showed what it would be like to face off against the guy when you aren't watching from the viewpoint of the Big Heroes.
Fair, yeah. Even if you group up and try to fight him, even with weapons, even with tactics, you're basically just gonna die. It was a cool scene.
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Golden YakBurnished BovineThe sunny beaches of CanadaRegistered Userregular
He didn't have to be a Jedi. But I do also like non-Jedi/Sith force users being introduced. The elder lady in TFA, who gives Rey the lightsaber, she was cool too.
I'm still convinced she's going to be related to Snoke somehow
Ex-wife?
maybe the same race or something.
Oh, something Star Wars related that really disappointed me.
Snoke isn't a giant, that was just a really big hologram.
We haven't seen him in person, so there's still hope.
So glad that they didn't have cassian and Jyn fall in love. I really dislike the whole "I know you for about 2 days, let's make babies because whatever stuff."
I thought it became evident that they were falling in love towards the end there and they knew they weren't going to make it so they just made do with whatever time they had left? Cause no one eye fucks someone that hard on an elevator ride and come out of it not feeling some type of way.
I felt like they were feeling things for each other but
It was SO not in the typical hollywood way, and I appreciated that. Typical hollywood would have them kissing at the end of the movie, or have them like, falling on top of each other as the ship got bumped and awkwardly blushing or whatever.
it was more like brotherhood/sisterhood to start, they learned from each other and inspired each other and at the end felt strongly connected maybe even in a slightly romantic way, but not in a heavy handed or cliche way. I thought it was awesome.
Some of my fav moments near the end are when Cassian is actually looking to Jyn as a leader. Even moments where he's about to do something and he looks at her and she nods "yes do it" are just great.
I'd have to re-watch it again, @So It Goes , but there were moments where I could tell Cassian was falling for her so it never felt like to me a brotherhood/sisterhood kind of thing. It very much reminded me of Han and Leia (especially now that I've watched the original trilogy again for New Years eve). I wanted them to kiss, but I respect that they didn't.
I also got the feeling that the blind monk and the guy with the big awesome gun were a couple. My dad didn't see it and he was actually upset people were proposing that. I was like "Uh, to me it was pretty clear they were a couple?"
On the monks:
IMO, based on the backstories of most other non-darkside force orders, odds are better than not they're less Éros and more Philia; more Frodo and Sam than Ennis and Jack. It's entirely possible they could elaborate on the characters' relationship in other works (comics, TV, etc), but what is more essential to both of them is their connection and closeness from their years spent together as Guardians. That depth of connection between male characters is not frequently shown in modern cinema, and no matter which way Disney wants to play it, adding it to the film is a positive move. It works from all approaches.
Yeah Mim, I think the fact we both read it slightly differently is a testament to the choice not to write an overt cliche romance plot. Folks can get romance out of it but others can experience the movie being distracted by the usual "required" romance.
It just hit me that what made me think Cassian was falling for Jyn was that he was annoyed with her at some point, and apparently my brain decided "He's annoyed with you = He's falling for you!"
I may need to re-think this.
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Apothe0sisHave you ever questioned the nature of your reality?Registered Userregular
Yeah Mim, I think the fact we both read it slightly differently is a testament to the choice not to write an overt cliche romance plot. Folks can get romance out of it but others can experience the movie being distracted by the usual "required" romance.
It just hit me that what made me think Cassian was falling for Jyn was that he was annoyed with her at some point, and apparently my brain decided "He's annoyed with you = He's falling for you!"
I may need to re-think this.
That is the language of modern cinema.
It isn't your brain going haywire, it's reading a common thematic and visual language.
Yeah Mim, I think the fact we both read it slightly differently is a testament to the choice not to write an overt cliche romance plot. Folks can get romance out of it but others can experience the movie being distracted by the usual "required" romance.
It just hit me that what made me think Cassian was falling for Jyn was that he was annoyed with her at some point, and apparently my brain decided "He's annoyed with you = He's falling for you!"
I may need to re-think this.
That is the language of modern cinema.
It isn't your brain going haywire, it's reading a common thematic and visual language.
Also, she was played by Felicity Jones and they had a connection. Wouldn't you get crush on her?
He didn't have to be a Jedi. But I do also like non-Jedi/Sith force users being introduced. The elder lady in TFA, who gives Rey the lightsaber, she was cool too.
I'm still convinced she's going to be related to Snoke somehow
Ex-wife?
maybe the same race or something.
Oh, something Star Wars related that really disappointed me.
Snoke isn't a giant, that was just a really big hologram.
I would so fucking love it if Snoke really is that big and it was a life size hologram projection of him.
Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
I think the actors and the subtleties they brought to the characters are the main reason why the character writing, which I'd agree is mostly pretty flat, didn't bother me. And yes, I absolutely think that there was a clear attraction between Jyn and Cassian.
"Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
Having watched it last night for the first time, I definitely picked up on a Jyn/Cassian thing. But it seemed to be as much a recognition of mutual value and a connection through shared sacrifice as an actual romantic thing.
I also picked up on the stuff between the temple guardians, but that felt a lot more like two really long term bros who had been through some shit together. Probably because my personal experience runs in that direction. I could absolutely see it being interpreted as a romantic relationship.
I also have to say that the very last scene may have been my favorite in the movie. Especially when taken in concert with the rest of the film.
Watching those rebel troopers face off against what was clearly, to them, the very avatar of death and oppression was really powerful. And it underlined that the whole rebellion was built on sacrifice and hope for a better future for others, not just when it came to the heroes we got names for in the movies. That last dude stepping up to Vader so his buddy could make the pass and get the plans through the door was a very powerful moment for me.
I know I'm in the vast minority here, but I didn't like the Vader hallway scene. The fact that the stolen data tape was right there for the force taking made the entire thing seem contrived. Like, the only reason he didn't just nab the thing was because we knew he couldn't do that, they had to get away. If I was making the film, I'd have had the dude with the tape make it through the door immediately. He turns around when he hears the Vader breathing and sees the lightsaber ignite. His pal punches the door controls and it shuts him out on the other side of the fight. But! Vader force chokes him and smooshes his face up against the glass and makes him watch all the carnage. Just as Vader is done and ready to stab through the door, the Tantive IV flees and the guy slumps to the floor, the last survivor. This way, Vader acts more in accordance with his goals, instead of hamstringing himself to serve the script.
I think at least 2 of the people in the hallway should have been from the actual cast, too, but oh well, that was probably lost during the re shoots. In any case, Vader was after the tape and ignored the tape, which was irritating to me instantly in the theater. Simple fix would have made the whole thing perfect.
I'm not sure Vader knew anything about the data disk thing in the hallway. He was just boarding the damn cruiser, and he's probably pretty used to at least a few enemy soldiers breaking at the mere sight of him and doing things like scrambling at the mostly-closed door.
Unless he's reading every mind in the room at the same time, while blocking blaster bolts and force choking people, I doubt it seemed that important to him until later.
I'm not sure Vader knew anything about the data disk thing in the hallway. He was just boarding the damn cruiser, and he's probably pretty used to at least a few enemy soldiers breaking at the mere sight of him and doing things like scrambling at the mostly-closed door.
Unless he's reading every mind in the room at the same time, while blocking blaster bolts and force choking people, I doubt it seemed that important to him until later.
Now that just gave me the most hilarious mental picture. Vader in his star destroyer, oblivious to the battle and heist going on outside his ship, just idling about and fidgeting his fingers.
"You know what, I think I'll go for a walk. I need to stretch my legs. That rebel cruiser corridor seems like a nice spot to get some air."
Yeah, Vader was focused on killing them all first, then going back to loot the bodies to find the quest item later.
Fortunately, Rogue One was running on better hardware than ANH, so the bodies didn't fade as soon as he killed them. It's too bad, Kenobi would have dropped epic loot.
QUESTION
After going to the rainy base Cassian is like "yo, Yavin 4 gogo". To the imperial pilot convert they've known for a few days.
Now I'm wondering how is it possible that the empire doesn't know the rebel HQ is on Yavin 4? I guess this goes for all of the films. They seem so lax with the info, and there are likely several thousand people there at the base. All of them obviously know where they are. Incoming and outgoing supplies etc.
Like either the empire doesn't know, which I don't believe would be possible for them not to know. Or they feel like they couldn't take the HQ out on a heads on assault, which I also don't believe.
It's because the movie treats it's characters like a party in an RPG. They ran into these people and so they collected them and now they just get carted around because that's just how the RPG works.
I mean, he picks up two randos on that first planet that gets lasered and they just tag along for the rest of the movie without the movie ever really saying why. But hey, you can't dump party members in most RPGs and they can carry extra supplies in their packs if you run out of inventory space between towns I guess.
Dude, the empire just nuked their city. They more or less got dragged along by default at first and after that? You think the two temple guards aren't going to want in on the rest of the fight?
Shyke basically nailed it with his point. The characters of Rogue One feel like an RPG party made up of people who haven't done much roleplaying before and aren't very comfortable with it. They have cool character concepts like 'Blind force monk' or they just looked at the equipment page and decided that they were going to be the big heavy weapons guy with a laser machine gun, but they haven't thought about their characters personalities at all.
You say that of course the two temple guards aren't going to want in on the rest of the fight? Show me a scene where either of them expresses any concern or grief about the fact that their city was wiped off the face of the world. Hell tell me a single personality trait of either of those characters, everybody in that film is crazy dull and flat, there's no life to any of them and the dialogue has two settings expository info-dumps or quips at the camera.
Forest Whitaker tells us that his psychic tentacle beast drives people insane when it steals the truth from it's victims minds, the initial prison scene with the Pilot he's a little out of it, but beyond that scene he has no lines that aren't entirely exposition, he just exists to express facts. Why isn't there anything in the film about this guy being distrusted for being a turncoat Imperial, how did Galin make this guy feel guilty about being a transport pilot?
It's a very pretty film but there's zero substance to any of the characters and it's much weaker for it. The film asks us to feel sorrow when the heroes die in the climactic assault, it never established anything about any of them so it's impossible to care. Somebody was talking earlier in this thread about how they felt that blind force monk and heavy weapons guy were a couple, which says a lot about the power of projecting onto a blank canvas, as there's no character, personality, emotion or purpose in either of those characters.
Chirrut literally asks Base to verify that Jehda was destroyed and seemed more than a little bit choked up about it. Baze was clearly the sort of damaged where he doesn't express a lot of emotion but he didn't seem too happy in that scene either.
Both men are having a completely understandable reaction there. Like its one thing assuming the place you have protected and cared about would be destroyed, its another thing to see it literally annihilated along with the rest of the city. Its like saying "What's the worst that can happen?" And then seeing the worst thing that could happen in response.
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
I'm not sure Vader knew anything about the data disk thing in the hallway. He was just boarding the damn cruiser, and he's probably pretty used to at least a few enemy soldiers breaking at the mere sight of him and doing things like scrambling at the mostly-closed door.
Unless he's reading every mind in the room at the same time, while blocking blaster bolts and force choking people, I doubt it seemed that important to him until later.
I was thinking about this very thing earlier today, in fact, and I came up with the dorkiest explanation possible:
Being a highly-trained Jedi is like having a goddamned huge Reflex save. But that doesn't save you from attacks of which you are not aware or not concentrating on. Vader, as powerful as he is, isn't indestructible, and blasters will fuck him up as badly as any other armored target in the Star Wars universe. The trick is getting the blaster bolts to him without a dodge. And that's the important thing: he could just as well grab the data disk off that guy in the back. But in the moments when he's concentrating on that, the other redshirts open fire. So that dude in the back is comparatively safe so long as Vader still has a few extra guys with guns to care about first.
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I'm not sure Vader knew anything about the data disk thing in the hallway. He was just boarding the damn cruiser, and he's probably pretty used to at least a few enemy soldiers breaking at the mere sight of him and doing things like scrambling at the mostly-closed door.
Unless he's reading every mind in the room at the same time, while blocking blaster bolts and force choking people, I doubt it seemed that important to him until later.
I was thinking about this very thing earlier today, in fact, and I came up with the dorkiest explanation possible:
Being a highly-trained Jedi is like having a goddamned huge Reflex save. But that doesn't save you from attacks of which you are not aware or not concentrating on. Vader, as powerful as he is, isn't indestructible, and blasters will fuck him up as badly as any other armored target in the Star Wars universe. The trick is getting the blaster bolts to him without a dodge. And that's the important thing: he could just as well grab the data disk off that guy in the back. But in the moments when he's concentrating on that, the other redshirts open fire. So that dude in the back is comparatively safe so long as Vader still has a few extra guys with guns to care about first.
Also, Vader/Anakin has never struck me as particularly intelligent. He maybe just didn't notice the door was partially open or thought he'd get to the plans first before they could escape or didn't realize exactly how important it would be, etc.
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My conservative brother was really upset when I said the two asian dudes were a couple.
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@Shivahn actually re-watching the trilogy for NYE made me notice the bodies for the first time. Like I always stared at the hut being on fire, but something made me look down and to the right (probably Sarks saying something) and I was like "Holy jesus."
Forgot them. So yeah adoptive "parents" killed off screen (with bodies seen) two mentors die (Ben and Yoda, the former violently onscreen), and we end with his father killed violently onscreen by the emperor as part of his redemption. That's five deaths of family/mentors in the original trilogy.
Oh, and Leia's whole planet.
And that one Ewok. But fuck that Ewok.
...Maz being Snoke would be awesome, now that I think about it. Way to twist up the whole ancient mentor concept! AND give Lupita more to do!
The ending also honestly astonished me, in a good way. I was all but certain that a shuttle would swing in at the last second and save at least the last two, but nope. Waaaay heavier stuff than I would have ever expected to be allowed in a Star Wars movie, that anyone would actually be allowed to wipe out all those characters in the same film they get introduced in. And yet, the grim ending runs right into the beginning of the OT and so we know the Rebels do win in the end.
And fucking hell, that last bit with Vader. Seven other movies, and none of them ever bothered to actually show why Vader was such a terrifying entity, or even why Force users are so incredible to anyone else in the setting (even the all-flash-no-substance prequels always had the Jedi and Sith facing off against peers of some kind, never in really one-sided fights). Damn right you'd spread some tales of terror if you were one of the lucky bastards to survive seeing that coming at you down a corridor filled with bodies and screaming, batting aside shots without effort and killing people without even touching them. Not to mention that it was also a sequence of visceral, weighty force like we see later in the OT, as opposed to the soulless CGI-fueled jump-flippy crap from the prequels.
As much as the prequel trilogy thoroughly crapped on the Star Wars setting, I'm hoping to hell that were get more one-offs like this for the OT films. Added so much more to Star Wars than "Light versus Dark!" and "Jedi versus Sith!".
Vader did just step out of a nice relaxing bacta bath; he was probably feeling pretty good at the moment.
If he hadn't been wearing the mask, he probably would have winked at Krennic as he made his joke.
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Umm....you do remember that in the original trilogy the Imperial Navy's primary purpose seemed to be providing hot and cold running admirals for Vader to choke out, even from two Star Destroyers over, right? Or Old Ben regulating on fools in the cantina?
But yeah, side from that, this was basically my take on the movie. Loved it, will watch it again.
Come on Vader was always a cheeky bitch when he was choking a dude out
Only other Imperials would've seen the dead admirals stuff anyway, and Obi-Wan dealing with Cantina Tough Guy lasted about a second and a half (and was more of a blur than anything else). Those are both a far, far cry from seeing organized soldiers hosing down a hallway with blaster fire and the shots being less effective at slowing Vader down than Vader simply stopping to kill guys.
That sequence also really really underscores why Luke was such a big deal to the Alliance, because they finally had somebody on their side who could stand up to that sort of stuff. Yeah, Luke lost to Vader at Bespin, but Luke fought Vader 1v1 and lived; that right there would've been some pretty legendary shit.
I get that the technology wasn't there to really show Vader kicking ass for the OT, but having it for R1 finally showed what it would be like to face off against the guy when you aren't watching from the viewpoint of the Big Heroes.
Oh, something Star Wars related that really disappointed me.
Shyke basically nailed it with his point. The characters of Rogue One feel like an RPG party made up of people who haven't done much roleplaying before and aren't very comfortable with it. They have cool character concepts like 'Blind force monk' or they just looked at the equipment page and decided that they were going to be the big heavy weapons guy with a laser machine gun, but they haven't thought about their characters personalities at all.
You say that of course the two temple guards aren't going to want in on the rest of the fight? Show me a scene where either of them expresses any concern or grief about the fact that their city was wiped off the face of the world. Hell tell me a single personality trait of either of those characters, everybody in that film is crazy dull and flat, there's no life to any of them and the dialogue has two settings expository info-dumps or quips at the camera.
Forest Whitaker tells us that his psychic tentacle beast drives people insane when it steals the truth from it's victims minds, the initial prison scene with the Pilot he's a little out of it, but beyond that scene he has no lines that aren't entirely exposition, he just exists to express facts. Why isn't there anything in the film about this guy being distrusted for being a turncoat Imperial, how did Galin make this guy feel guilty about being a transport pilot?
It's a very pretty film but there's zero substance to any of the characters and it's much weaker for it. The film asks us to feel sorrow when the heroes die in the climactic assault, it never established anything about any of them so it's impossible to care. Somebody was talking earlier in this thread about how they felt that blind force monk and heavy weapons guy were a couple, which says a lot about the power of projecting onto a blank canvas, as there's no character, personality, emotion or purpose in either of those characters.
As for Bohdi, I figured the brain thing would either play out as them dragging him along partially functional only to be a major liability at some point in the story or for him to be a necessary part of their team, but be a bit crazy, like Murdock from the A-Team. But going from drooling and staring at nothing to perfectly fine in 5 seconds was kind of dumb and again made its inclusion rather pointless.
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Well basically everything from that section of the film was pointless so it fits right in.
I can think of a whole list of reasons why they aren't crazy suspicious of the guy:
-he underwent HUGE risk to bring them intel
-he cooperates right away with the people he thinks are the Rebels
-pretty much everybody in the Rebellion is an ex-Imperial and they're definitely all ex-Imperial citizens
-he just watched the Empire casually blow up a city for not much reason
-converts are frequently the most dedicated to a cause
Personally, I hate when stories go on and on with paranoid suspicion; it quickly reaches a point where it accomplishes nothing fruitful, and it just gets annoying story-wise. It's pretty reasonable to me that they found another willing volunteer and just went "fuck it, either he's gonna betray us or he's not, there's nothing we can do to force the issue".
Heck, how many of their own fighter pilots were former Imperial pilots? Is everybody in the Rebellion supposed to be suspicious of all of them forever as well?
It's funny because that scene was in the film. When they're on the U-Wing headed for Edau. Chirrut is sitting there, and baze is staring our the window into hyperspace. Chirrut asks Baze 'Is it gone? Tell me, is it gone?', Baze turns around and murmurs 'It's gone'. They both looked pretty upset.
It's pretty obvious Chirrut, not being able to see, didn't know what the fuck was going on when they made a run for it, but had an idea, so he was asking Baze about it.
They probably should have left Baze's scene in from the trailer where he says 'You took away our homes' before firing down on the base on Edau though during the X-Wing attack.
That's basically their very first scenes post Jedha. On the U-Wing, in hyperspace, Chirrut demands to know what happened to the holy city. Baze doesn't want to tell him, but Churrut forces it out of him and they're both clearly stricken by the realization. Then, their next individual scene is when Chirrut decides to leave the U-Wing and help the others. Baze expresses cynicism about this and Chirrut invokes their friendship. Baze reluctantly follows.
Fair, yeah. Even if you group up and try to fight him, even with weapons, even with tactics, you're basically just gonna die. It was a cool scene.
Fingers crossed.
Yeah, but that was an obvious projection. Pretty sure it was just a big floating see-thru head. Snoke looked like the real big deal at first.
On the monks:
IMO, based on the backstories of most other non-darkside force orders, odds are better than not they're less Éros and more Philia; more Frodo and Sam than Ennis and Jack. It's entirely possible they could elaborate on the characters' relationship in other works (comics, TV, etc), but what is more essential to both of them is their connection and closeness from their years spent together as Guardians. That depth of connection between male characters is not frequently shown in modern cinema, and no matter which way Disney wants to play it, adding it to the film is a positive move. It works from all approaches.
It just hit me that what made me think Cassian was falling for Jyn was that he was annoyed with her at some point, and apparently my brain decided "He's annoyed with you = He's falling for you!"
I may need to re-think this.
That is the language of modern cinema.
It isn't your brain going haywire, it's reading a common thematic and visual language.
Also, she was played by Felicity Jones and they had a connection. Wouldn't you get crush on her?
I would so fucking love it if Snoke really is that big and it was a life size hologram projection of him.
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"Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
I also picked up on the stuff between the temple guardians, but that felt a lot more like two really long term bros who had been through some shit together. Probably because my personal experience runs in that direction. I could absolutely see it being interpreted as a romantic relationship.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
Watching those rebel troopers face off against what was clearly, to them, the very avatar of death and oppression was really powerful. And it underlined that the whole rebellion was built on sacrifice and hope for a better future for others, not just when it came to the heroes we got names for in the movies. That last dude stepping up to Vader so his buddy could make the pass and get the plans through the door was a very powerful moment for me.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
So proud.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
I think at least 2 of the people in the hallway should have been from the actual cast, too, but oh well, that was probably lost during the re shoots. In any case, Vader was after the tape and ignored the tape, which was irritating to me instantly in the theater. Simple fix would have made the whole thing perfect.
Unless he's reading every mind in the room at the same time, while blocking blaster bolts and force choking people, I doubt it seemed that important to him until later.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
Now that just gave me the most hilarious mental picture. Vader in his star destroyer, oblivious to the battle and heist going on outside his ship, just idling about and fidgeting his fingers.
"You know what, I think I'll go for a walk. I need to stretch my legs. That rebel cruiser corridor seems like a nice spot to get some air."
Fortunately, Rogue One was running on better hardware than ANH, so the bodies didn't fade as soon as he killed them. It's too bad, Kenobi would have dropped epic loot.
It was broadcast to the ship Leia was in. That ship just also contained another ship, which is the one she made an escape on.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
Chirrut literally asks Base to verify that Jehda was destroyed and seemed more than a little bit choked up about it. Baze was clearly the sort of damaged where he doesn't express a lot of emotion but he didn't seem too happy in that scene either.
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I was thinking about this very thing earlier today, in fact, and I came up with the dorkiest explanation possible:
Being a highly-trained Jedi is like having a goddamned huge Reflex save. But that doesn't save you from attacks of which you are not aware or not concentrating on. Vader, as powerful as he is, isn't indestructible, and blasters will fuck him up as badly as any other armored target in the Star Wars universe. The trick is getting the blaster bolts to him without a dodge. And that's the important thing: he could just as well grab the data disk off that guy in the back. But in the moments when he's concentrating on that, the other redshirts open fire. So that dude in the back is comparatively safe so long as Vader still has a few extra guys with guns to care about first.
Also, Vader/Anakin has never struck me as particularly intelligent. He maybe just didn't notice the door was partially open or thought he'd get to the plans first before they could escape or didn't realize exactly how important it would be, etc.
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