The problem with any soft reboot of The Matrix is that the ending of the third movie reveals, intentionally or not, that none of them ever left the Matrix at all. Unless they address that massive plot hole, I can't take anything short of a full reboot seriously... and a full reboot that tries to replicate the first movie and actors/characters will almost certainly fail.
that's not what it revealed. It revealed that humans escaping the matrix was part of their plan and had happened in cycles. Neo breaks that cycle and people are allowed to leave if they want and there is a tenuous peace between the machines and humanity.
No, it doesn't, not at all.
In the "real" world, Neo is blinded and his jack is fried. Then, to save the day, he starts magically seeing Matrix code. There are only two explanations for this: 1. He is still in the Matrix and the "real" world is just another layer, designed to satisfy people who feel like they need to follow the white rabbit, or 2. It is actual magic and nothing they spent three movies building up to means anything.
1. is an interesting idea, but a soft reboot would need to sell that shit hard not to lose people. 2. is just bullshit.
Those are not the only explanations of that. The main one being that neo's implants and specifically designed brain are able to see the machines without his own eyes. It doesn't mean he's in the matrix.
An assertion that has zero basis in the actual world or plot.
It is presented as a real-world miracle; miracles without explanation are not the province of sci-fi; that is fantasy.
Incidentally, my explanation also fixes the people-as-batteries problem: they're not. Skynet or whatever cooked up a scenario where the machines were doing some moustache-twirlingly evil shit on one level, so that people dissatisfied with the carpet store can take themselves off the grid.
They are still in the Matrix, just a different area. I imagine that anyone who dies from unnatural causes also wakes up in a new sim, or maybe The Good Place, or something.
Why? Because the machines are trying to save humans, is my speculation. Humans burned the sky, maybe that is true, and the only way to help people from ecological disaster is to put them into the Matrix while the machines try to fix the world. Humans who die in the Matrix need to go away, for continuity purposes, but it isn't going to actually kill them; you don't die in real life if ghost monsters catch Pac-Man, after all. So they get shuffled to Heaven or Wisconsin, or whatever.
Except the movie actually supports the idea that his brain is connected to the Matrix (ie - the beginning of the first movie) and your entire explanation is pulled from your butt, to the point where you are discarding things the movie actually tells you are true in order to make your theory work (always a bad idea).
I admit that it has been several years since I saw the movies, but I don't recall anything stating that Neo had non-standard wi-fi Matrix connections.
Can you cite a quote for that?
From the beginning of Revolutions:
Neo and Bane lie unconscious in the medical bay of the ship Hammer. Meanwhile, Neo finds his digital self trapped in a virtual subway station—named, "Mobil Ave.", "mobil", being an anagram for "limbo"—a transition zone between the Matrix and the Machine City. In that subway station, he meets a "family" of programs, including a girl named Sati, whose father tells Neo the subway is controlled by the Trainman, an exiled program loyal to the Merovingian. When Neo tries to board a train with the family, the Trainman refuses and overpowers him.
Seraph contacts Morpheus and Trinity on behalf of the Oracle, who informs them of Neo's confinement. Seraph, Morpheus and Trinity enter Club Hel, where they confront the Merovingian and force him to release Neo.
Like, that's what is happening here. He is trapped inside the Matrix and he sure didn't jack himself in to get there.
That is not what I asked. I asked if there is any explanation of Neo's special wi-fi, like a science reason that he is able to do that. Otherwise you're just reinforcing my point.
Not as we know it, but the concept has existed forever. Cell phones have been around since the 80s.
I want to say 802.11 has been in a functional form since the early 1990's.
I had a totally functional Tin Can 802.11 bridge to get internet from my neighbors in the late in 97. The card took an ISA slot on my motherboard and had a coax connection out the back to hook up an antenna. WiFi routers took awhile to show up, but wireless has been around at a consumer level for 20 years.
The problem with any soft reboot of The Matrix is that the ending of the third movie reveals, intentionally or not, that none of them ever left the Matrix at all. Unless they address that massive plot hole, I can't take anything short of a full reboot seriously... and a full reboot that tries to replicate the first movie and actors/characters will almost certainly fail.
that's not what it revealed. It revealed that humans escaping the matrix was part of their plan and had happened in cycles. Neo breaks that cycle and people are allowed to leave if they want and there is a tenuous peace between the machines and humanity.
No, it doesn't, not at all.
In the "real" world, Neo is blinded and his jack is fried. Then, to save the day, he starts magically seeing Matrix code. There are only two explanations for this: 1. He is still in the Matrix and the "real" world is just another layer, designed to satisfy people who feel like they need to follow the white rabbit, or 2. It is actual magic and nothing they spent three movies building up to means anything.
1. is an interesting idea, but a soft reboot would need to sell that shit hard not to lose people. 2. is just bullshit.
Those are not the only explanations of that. The main one being that neo's implants and specifically designed brain are able to see the machines without his own eyes. It doesn't mean he's in the matrix.
An assertion that has zero basis in the actual world or plot.
It is presented as a real-world miracle; miracles without explanation are not the province of sci-fi; that is fantasy.
Incidentally, my explanation also fixes the people-as-batteries problem: they're not. Skynet or whatever cooked up a scenario where the machines were doing some moustache-twirlingly evil shit on one level, so that people dissatisfied with the carpet store can take themselves off the grid.
They are still in the Matrix, just a different area. I imagine that anyone who dies from unnatural causes also wakes up in a new sim, or maybe The Good Place, or something.
Why? Because the machines are trying to save humans, is my speculation. Humans burned the sky, maybe that is true, and the only way to help people from ecological disaster is to put them into the Matrix while the machines try to fix the world. Humans who die in the Matrix need to go away, for continuity purposes, but it isn't going to actually kill them; you don't die in real life if ghost monsters catch Pac-Man, after all. So they get shuffled to Heaven or Wisconsin, or whatever.
Except the movie actually supports the idea that his brain is connected to the Matrix (ie - the beginning of the first movie) and your entire explanation is pulled from your butt, to the point where you are discarding things the movie actually tells you are true in order to make your theory work (always a bad idea).
I admit that it has been several years since I saw the movies, but I don't recall anything stating that Neo had non-standard wi-fi Matrix connections.
Can you cite a quote for that?
From the beginning of Revolutions:
Neo and Bane lie unconscious in the medical bay of the ship Hammer. Meanwhile, Neo finds his digital self trapped in a virtual subway station—named, "Mobil Ave.", "mobil", being an anagram for "limbo"—a transition zone between the Matrix and the Machine City. In that subway station, he meets a "family" of programs, including a girl named Sati, whose father tells Neo the subway is controlled by the Trainman, an exiled program loyal to the Merovingian. When Neo tries to board a train with the family, the Trainman refuses and overpowers him.
Seraph contacts Morpheus and Trinity on behalf of the Oracle, who informs them of Neo's confinement. Seraph, Morpheus and Trinity enter Club Hel, where they confront the Merovingian and force him to release Neo.
Like, that's what is happening here. He is trapped inside the Matrix and he sure didn't jack himself in to get there.
That is not what I asked. I asked if there is any explanation of Neo's special wi-fi, like a science reason that he is able to do that. Otherwise you're just reinforcing my point.
No, you asked where it's stated he was a non-standard connection to the Matrix. It's right there. The whole start of Revolutions is all about it.
Neo goes into some weird comma and then hey, it turns out he's inside the Matrix and they have to go in there to rescue him.
The movie outright shows this to be the case.
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Dark Raven XLaugh hard, run fast,be kindRegistered Userregular
edited March 2017
in fairness, the concept of the plugholes being able to communicate wirelessly is never explicitly laid out in the movie, that stuff came from later commentary from the Sisters and from that MMO game (totally canon!) and if it wasn't in the movie, it wasn't necessarily true. But it is the simplest explanation that is most supported by the rest of the events of the movie, IMO.
ed; in fact the rules setup in the first movie do kinda reinforce the feeling that it can't work that way, cause we're shown that breaking the hardline connection = death. But that's what makes the Revelayton so coooool, and when trying to exploit the connection without all the supporting hardware, Neo very nearly dies. It is fairly internally consistent.
I'm not concerned with how it works here and the movie never explains how it works but it does establish that there is some sort of connection going on here. It's 100% in the movie and "true". How it happens is a completely separate question the movie never answers. But it happens.
Neo and Bane lie unconscious in the medical bay of the ship Hammer. Meanwhile, Neo finds his digital self trapped in a virtual subway station—named, "Mobil Ave.", "mobil", being an anagram for "limbo"—a transition zone between the Matrix and the Machine City. In that subway station, he meets a "family" of programs, including a girl named Sati, whose father tells Neo the subway is controlled by the Trainman, an exiled program loyal to the Merovingian. When Neo tries to board a train with the family, the Trainman refuses and overpowers him.
Seraph contacts Morpheus and Trinity on behalf of the Oracle, who informs them of Neo's confinement. Seraph, Morpheus and Trinity enter Club Hel, where they confront the Merovingian and force him to release Neo.
Like, that's what is happening here. He is trapped inside the Matrix and he sure didn't jack himself in to get there.
That is not what I asked. I asked if there is any explanation of Neo's special wi-fi, like a science reason that he is able to do that. Otherwise you're just reinforcing my point.
No, you asked where it's stated he was a non-standard connection to the Matrix. It's right there. The whole start of Revolutions is all about it.
Neo goes into some weird comma and then hey, it turns out he's inside the Matrix and they have to go in there to rescue him.
I don't recall anything stating that Neo had non-standard wi-fi Matrix connections.
Can you cite a quote for that?
That is me literally asking about Neo's wi-fi capabilities. The hardware is what interests me, because your assertion implies that he has to have it, but literally nobody else in the Matrix movies remarks (if I can remember correctly) that he has any implants in his head other than the bog-standard stuff that everyone who escaped from the Matrix but still freeboots in sometimes has.
If everybody in the Matrix has wi-fi, then the plot doesn't work, because they don't need the jacks to log in. Further, Agent Smith could just wireless into anyone he wants on the outside, and the movie is over.
If Neo is the only one with wireless capability that begs the question: "Why?" Is he The One ONLY because the machines gave him some extra hardware when he was a wee battery? And if that is the case, then the machines essentially created The One on purpose, and that' opens the door to a lot more braintwisters like, "Did the machines actually plan this all along?" That would explain the Oracle, for sure.
Or maybe Neo's brain evolved into a biological wireless router, which... weird, but sure. Seems like Trinity & Morpheus's medical equipment might have noticed that, though.
Basically, if The Matrix: Reloaded & Revolutions wanted to be taken seriously as sci-fi, they would have explained how Neo was interacting with the machines outside the Matrix. I mean, I guess that it's fine if they just want to say "It was magic all along," but Star Wars already fills the slot of "high fantasy dressed up like sci-fi," and it seems like a waste of all the potential for speculative fiction if you go that route.
I'm not concerned with how it works here and the movie never explains how it works but it does establish that there is some sort of connection going on here. It's 100% in the movie and "true". How it happens is a completely separate question the movie never answers. But it happens.
Okay, you're not curious about the science, I get that. But it doesn't make the thing make sense, because it doesn't.
When I was watching it in the theater and blind Neo started seeing everything outlined in matrix code, I said, "Oh, come on." It totally took me out of the movie, just this blatant magic that took me right out of the setting. There was some stuff that was dumb before, but that just took it up to 11.
Again, I already pointed out where the movie states he has the ability to enter the Matrix without a hardline. It's a thing that literally happens in the movie.
You asked where it's stated he can do this. I gave you where it's shown.
The how is not relevant to that and is not answered within the movie anyway. I can't tell you how. But he does it. It is a thing that happens in the movie.
Again, I already pointed out where the movie states he has the ability to enter the Matrix without a hardline. It's a thing that literally happens in the movie.
You asked where it's stated he can do this. I gave you where it's shown.
The how is not relevant to that and is not answered within the movie anyway. I can't tell you how. But he does it. It is a thing that happens in the movie.
Right. If you ignore the context of what I was asking, you are correct.
The "how" is, in fact, relevant if you're me, or any number of other people who want movies to have internal consistency. First movie: Only hard port connections. Third movie: Magic wi-fi! Since the first movie is the only one that is hailed as an all-time hall of fame flick, I'm inclined to lean towards that one for telling me how the world works, especially because it does such a great job of it.
Not as we know it, but the concept has existed forever. Cell phones have been around since the 80s.
I want to say 802.11 has been in a functional form since the early 1990's.
I had a totally functional Tin Can 802.11 bridge to get internet from my neighbors in the late in 97. The card took an ISA slot on my motherboard and had a coax connection out the back to hook up an antenna. WiFi routers took awhile to show up, but wireless has been around at a consumer level for 20 years.
I just know that the Mega Man Battle Network games (which came out between 2001 and 2006) didn't feature wi-fi despite taking place in a setting where all electronics are connected to the "cyber world", so I assumed wi-fi wasn't prevalent enough yet at the time to feature in most fiction.
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AtomikaLive fast and get fucked or whateverRegistered Userregular
The big ape fight was surprisingly well-made, with some legitimately amazing compositions and very competent characterizations throughout. It's big and loud and fun, but never dumb. Come for the octopus sushi, stay for the thinly-veiled treatise on the toxicity of political tribalism and how the masculine virtues of wartime create more conflict than they resolve.
So I've been keeping my head down about the New Ghost in the Shell movie. I think I saw the 1995 cartoon and found it a pleasant waste of time. Some of the changes they made for the live action adaption that I have glanced at don't turn my world upside down or anything. It looks like another pleasant waste of time and I'll catch it when it comes out.
However, something caught my eye when I was looking for some Japanese takes on the movie. Turns out, I couldn't find it at first because... catch this....
They changed the name of the movie in Japan...
The actual Japanese name of "Ghost in the Shell" franchise is 「攻殻機動隊」 (Koukaku Kidoutai) or "Mobile Armored Riot Police". When I was searching for the Japanese name of the movie, I was only getting the anime and manga, and nothing on the live action movie. Turns out, the decided to call it this.
「ゴースト・イン・ザ・シェル」 goosuto in za sheru
The series had the English "Ghost in the Shell" subtitle for the first movie and manga, but the work as a whole as NEVER been called that Japan. The live action movie is completely missing the original "Koukaku Kidoutai" name altogether. Unless you know the 1995 movie was titled 「GHOST IN THE SHELL / 攻殻機動隊」 (And could read the English bit) you wouldn't even know it was the same franchise. Compare the wiki entry for the original movie vs the live action version. Choosing to use the "English" name for the movie really distances itself from the Japanese version and really earmarks it as something "foreign". There is nothing wrong with this. Japan has lots of foreign movies in their theaters. But this super-detaches it from the original franchise in a big way. Not only this, when looking down the rabbit hole I have only seen mention of the the original franchise in passing in relation to the new movie. More like "oh this is a live action adaption of the a Koukaku Kidoutai story" without really linking the two.
A review of a sizzle reel from GiTS, which is not promising to say the least and then there's the quote from the director who found the original anime movie "too philosophical and introspective."
I think my head has been conflating The Matrix and The 13th Floor for so long that I just want a reboot of both of them as a single movie.
And then ther's also the 1973 World on A Wire, based on the same novel. I think that was where the use of phones as a connection between the worlds comes from.
Again, I already pointed out where the movie states he has the ability to enter the Matrix without a hardline. It's a thing that literally happens in the movie.
You asked where it's stated he can do this. I gave you where it's shown.
The how is not relevant to that and is not answered within the movie anyway. I can't tell you how. But he does it. It is a thing that happens in the movie.
Right. If you ignore the context of what I was asking, you are correct.
The "how" is, in fact, relevant if you're me, or any number of other people who want movies to have internal consistency. First movie: Only hard port connections. Third movie: Magic wi-fi! Since the first movie is the only one that is hailed as an all-time hall of fame flick, I'm inclined to lean towards that one for telling me how the world works, especially because it does such a great job of it.
I'm really not sure of this only those elements that are vetted by popular or critical response are true position. That sounds like the definition of cherry-picking.
It's not inconsistent, either. The resistance is aware of the ethernet connections. So that's what they built their entire infrastructure around. I mean, I received a raspberry pi 3 over Christmas. I glanced at it and saw the ethernet port; it wasn't until later that day, when I pulled up the manual online, that I learned it also had built-in wi-fi. Nobody gave the resistance a manual.
The movies leave two choices: either the wi-fi is specific to a single individual, or everyone has the ability. It doesn't actually matter which one is true: what matters is that nobody in the resistance recognized that power. They didn't have any incentive to look into "what if ... wi-fi?" because they had the ethernet ports right there.
The movies leave two choices: either the wi-fi is specific to a single individual, or everyone has the ability. It doesn't actually matter which one is true: what matters is that nobody in the resistance recognized that power. They didn't have any incentive to look into "what if ... wi-fi?" because they had the ethernet ports right there.
No incentive beyond that whole "if you can't get to a telephone when the agents come, you die," you mean? If they could just jack out at any time, you don't think that would make them at all curious? All that tech, all that ability to detect matrix signals, and it didn't occur to them to check for wireless routers in their own heads? I mean, presumably the squid-bots have a wireless connection.
It is honestly, fine. Lots of movies, even good movies, don't make sense. But, like, Interstellar didn't make any sense, and we called it out for that. So why are the Matrix sequels different?
So I've been keeping my head down about the New Ghost in the Shell movie. I think I saw the 1995 cartoon and found it a pleasant waste of time. Some of the changes they made for the live action adaption that I have glanced at don't turn my world upside down or anything. It looks like another pleasant waste of time and I'll catch it when it comes out.
However, something caught my eye when I was looking for some Japanese takes on the movie. Turns out, I couldn't find it at first because... catch this....
They changed the name of the movie in Japan...
The actual Japanese name of "Ghost in the Shell" franchise is 「攻殻機動隊」 (Koukaku Kidoutai) or "Mobile Armored Riot Police". When I was searching for the Japanese name of the movie, I was only getting the anime and manga, and nothing on the live action movie. Turns out, the decided to call it this.
「ゴースト・イン・ザ・シェル」 goosto in za sheru
The series, though having that title in English for the first movie, has NEVER been referred to by it's English title like that Japan. It's also completely missing the original name as a subtitle. Unless you know the 1995 movie was titled 「GHOST IN THE SHELL / 攻殻機動隊」 (And could read the English bit) you wouldn't even know it was the same franchise. Compare the wiki entry for the original movie vs the live action version. Choosing to use the "English" name for the movie really distances itself from the Japanese version and really earmarks it as something "foreign". There is nothing wrong with this. Japan has lots of foreign movies in their theaters. But this super-detaches it from the original franchise in a big way. Not only this, when looking down the rabbit hole I have only seen mention of the the original franchise in passing in relation to the new movie. More like "oh this is a live action adaption of the a Koukaku Kidoutai story" without really linking the two.
Just something I found interesting.
What a load of horsebird dung. This isn't detaching it, this is the production team being fucking sloppy.
So I've been keeping my head down about the New Ghost in the Shell movie. I think I saw the 1995 cartoon and found it a pleasant waste of time. Some of the changes they made for the live action adaption that I have glanced at don't turn my world upside down or anything. It looks like another pleasant waste of time and I'll catch it when it comes out.
However, something caught my eye when I was looking for some Japanese takes on the movie. Turns out, I couldn't find it at first because... catch this....
They changed the name of the movie in Japan...
The actual Japanese name of "Ghost in the Shell" franchise is 「攻殻機動隊」 (Koukaku Kidoutai) or "Mobile Armored Riot Police". When I was searching for the Japanese name of the movie, I was only getting the anime and manga, and nothing on the live action movie. Turns out, the decided to call it this.
「ゴースト・イン・ザ・シェル」 goosto in za sheru
The series, though having that title in English for the first movie, has NEVER been referred to by it's English title like that Japan. It's also completely missing the original name as a subtitle. Unless you know the 1995 movie was titled 「GHOST IN THE SHELL / 攻殻機動隊」 (And could read the English bit) you wouldn't even know it was the same franchise. Compare the wiki entry for the original movie vs the live action version. Choosing to use the "English" name for the movie really distances itself from the Japanese version and really earmarks it as something "foreign". There is nothing wrong with this. Japan has lots of foreign movies in their theaters. But this super-detaches it from the original franchise in a big way. Not only this, when looking down the rabbit hole I have only seen mention of the the original franchise in passing in relation to the new movie. More like "oh this is a live action adaption of the a Koukaku Kidoutai story" without really linking the two.
Just something I found interesting.
Let me throw this tidbit out there: When Edge of Tomorrow was released in Japan, it was titled All You Need Is Kill, which was the title of the Japanese light novel that the movie was based on.
So I've been keeping my head down about the New Ghost in the Shell movie. I think I saw the 1995 cartoon and found it a pleasant waste of time. Some of the changes they made for the live action adaption that I have glanced at don't turn my world upside down or anything. It looks like another pleasant waste of time and I'll catch it when it comes out.
However, something caught my eye when I was looking for some Japanese takes on the movie. Turns out, I couldn't find it at first because... catch this....
They changed the name of the movie in Japan...
The actual Japanese name of "Ghost in the Shell" franchise is 「攻殻機動隊」 (Koukaku Kidoutai) or "Mobile Armored Riot Police". When I was searching for the Japanese name of the movie, I was only getting the anime and manga, and nothing on the live action movie. Turns out, the decided to call it this.
「ゴースト・イン・ザ・シェル」 goosto in za sheru
The series, though having that title in English for the first movie, has NEVER been referred to by it's English title like that Japan. It's also completely missing the original name as a subtitle. Unless you know the 1995 movie was titled 「GHOST IN THE SHELL / 攻殻機動隊」 (And could read the English bit) you wouldn't even know it was the same franchise. Compare the wiki entry for the original movie vs the live action version. Choosing to use the "English" name for the movie really distances itself from the Japanese version and really earmarks it as something "foreign". There is nothing wrong with this. Japan has lots of foreign movies in their theaters. But this super-detaches it from the original franchise in a big way. Not only this, when looking down the rabbit hole I have only seen mention of the the original franchise in passing in relation to the new movie. More like "oh this is a live action adaption of the a Koukaku Kidoutai story" without really linking the two.
Just something I found interesting.
Let me throw this tidbit out there: When Edge of Tomorrow was released in Japan, it was titled All You Need Is Kill, which was the title of the Japanese light novel that the movie was based on.
And as much as I enjoyed the book, I enjoyed the movie more
Well, and that's the thing: the book and movie were very different, but the film managed to stay true to the core of the book, despite the plot deviations.
A review of a sizzle reel from GiTS, which is not promising to say the least and then there's the quote from the director who found the original anime movie "too philosophical and introspective."
WTF, that is the whole point of GiTS, come for the manga cyberfuture, stay for the philosophical introspection
The movies leave two choices: either the wi-fi is specific to a single individual, or everyone has the ability. It doesn't actually matter which one is true: what matters is that nobody in the resistance recognized that power. They didn't have any incentive to look into "what if ... wi-fi?" because they had the ethernet ports right there.
No incentive beyond that whole "if you can't get to a telephone when the agents come, you die," you mean? If they could just jack out at any time, you don't think that would make them at all curious? All that tech, all that ability to detect matrix signals, and it didn't occur to them to check for wireless routers in their own heads? I mean, presumably the squid-bots have a wireless connection.
It is honestly, fine. Lots of movies, even good movies, don't make sense. But, like, Interstellar didn't make any sense, and we called it out for that. So why are the Matrix sequels different?
I didn't call Interstellar out. I tend to get grumpy when people call out movies.
I'm not interested in defending the films. I'm debating your position, because I think it's based on a willful misreading of the text. That you excised context from my post after complaining that someone was ignoring context irritates me.
Your argument rests on the supposition that the resistance is a) aware of wi-fi as a thing; b) can recognize a general wireless device; and c) can recognize a wireless device that's integrated directly into a brain. None of those things are supported by the films, and I'm not sure anybody could do c.
More specifically, the use of this power, whether they are aware of it in general or not; whether it is common or unique, is shown to have fatal consequences.
You're also assuming the resistance possesses tech that they are neither shown nor implied to have. Where is 'all this tech', 'all that ability to detect matrix signals' that you're describing? Their tech is so rudimentary they can only capture a fragment of the data, and that remains heavily encrypted. Their tech is clumsy, antiquated, or both; barely adequate to the task.
edit: That said, it's not surprising to me. The Matrix is one of the most popular sci-fi franchises in the world so people are going to be engaged into why and how the setting works.
Harry Dresden on
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KadokenGiving Ends to my Friends and it Feels StupendousRegistered Userregular
edit: That said, it's not surprising to me. The Matrix is one of the most popular sci-fi franchises in the world so people are going to be engaged into why and how the setting works.
Oh I thought that came out of a large fan following of the Marvel character Nuke
WTF, that is the whole point of GiTS, come for the manga cyberfuture, stay for the philosophical introspection
Having rewatched the film over the weekend, I have to say that I find the philosophical aspect rather overrated. Perhaps I just don't get all of it, but what I could see struck me as Philosophy 101, nothing more profound than that, and delivered in a pretty clumsy, overly explicit way at that. At the very least I'd hope that it's handled with more subtlety, but to be honest, if they dropped it I don't think I'd miss it much, unless it was done with more finesse and complexity.
"Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
WTF, that is the whole point of GiTS, come for the manga cyberfuture, stay for the philosophical introspection
Having rewatched the film over the weekend, I have to say that I find the philosophical aspect rather overrated. Perhaps I just don't get all of it, but what I could see struck me as Philosophy 101, nothing more profound than that, and delivered in a pretty clumsy, overly explicit way at that. At the very least I'd hope that it's handled with more subtlety, but to be honest, if they dropped it I don't think I'd miss it much, unless it was done with more finesse and complexity.
WTF, that is the whole point of GiTS, come for the manga cyberfuture, stay for the philosophical introspection
Having rewatched the film over the weekend, I have to say that I find the philosophical aspect rather overrated. Perhaps I just don't get all of it, but what I could see struck me as Philosophy 101, nothing more profound than that, and delivered in a pretty clumsy, overly explicit way at that. At the very least I'd hope that it's handled with more subtlety, but to be honest, if they dropped it I don't think I'd miss it much, unless it was done with more finesse and complexity.
... wait, are we still talking about the Matrix, or...?
WTF, that is the whole point of GiTS, come for the manga cyberfuture, stay for the philosophical introspection
Having rewatched the film over the weekend, I have to say that I find the philosophical aspect rather overrated. Perhaps I just don't get all of it, but what I could see struck me as Philosophy 101, nothing more profound than that, and delivered in a pretty clumsy, overly explicit way at that. At the very least I'd hope that it's handled with more subtlety, but to be honest, if they dropped it I don't think I'd miss it much, unless it was done with more finesse and complexity.
SAC was better with it (but then again, they had two TV seasons and a movie to work with.)
jungleroomxIt's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovelsRegistered Userregular
I'm actually glad I haven't seen the 1995 movie.
I probably won't until after seeing the Scarjo one.
Or I might see it before, who knows?
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jungleroomxIt's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovelsRegistered Userregular
Either way, I'm going to see GiTS because I'm a scifi freak and I love Scarjo, and it's been a treasure trove of scifi for us scifi freaks here recently in entertainment.
The philosophical aspects of GITS aren't particularly complex, but it was refreshing to see characters take a look around at the setting of their story and try to make sense of it, like "Hey, we all live in a world where our minds can be moved from one cyborg body to another, what does that mean in terms of identity and consciousness?" The implications of the Major's decision at the end of the film were also pretty radical in 1995. I would imagine that the original film had a significant influence on transhumanist thought and interest in transhumanism.
I've just seen that my local cinema is doing a one-off showing of Mad Max: Fury Road - Black & Chrome edition on April 30th. Guess I know what I'm doing that night!
The philosophical aspects of GITS aren't particularly complex, but it was refreshing to see characters take a look around at the setting of their story and try to make sense of it, like "Hey, we all live in a world where our minds can be moved from one cyborg body to another, what does that mean in terms of identity and consciousness?" The implications of the Major's decision at the end of the film were also pretty radical in 1995. I would imagine that the original film had a significant influence on transhumanist thought and interest in transhumanism.
It's still pretty rare in western film or games to have that kind of transhumanism
where someone's entire identity can be hacked, where they might not have ever been a real person, and even worse they'd never know for sure
you see it in books all the time, the most recent culture book I read was all about a universe where the self is an infinitely reproducible and altogether not that special thing
People who read a lot of books will always look at any movie attempting philosophy and go "oh how simplistic", but for most people they probably haven't thought about it
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AtomikaLive fast and get fucked or whateverRegistered Userregular
I'm not sure what a B&W version of Fury Road would bring to the table. The deep saturations of that film were gorgeous
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jungleroomxIt's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovelsRegistered Userregular
The philosophical aspects of GITS aren't particularly complex, but it was refreshing to see characters take a look around at the setting of their story and try to make sense of it, like "Hey, we all live in a world where our minds can be moved from one cyborg body to another, what does that mean in terms of identity and consciousness?" The implications of the Major's decision at the end of the film were also pretty radical in 1995. I would imagine that the original film had a significant influence on transhumanist thought and interest in transhumanism.
It's still pretty rare in western film or games to have that kind of transhumanism
where someone's entire identity can be hacked, where they might not have ever been a real person, and even worse they'd never know for sure
you see it in books all the time, the most recent culture book I read was all about a universe where the self is an infinitely reproducible and altogether not that special thing
People who read a lot of books will always look at any movie attempting philosophy and go "oh how simplistic", but for most people they probably haven't thought about it
I'm already certain the GiTS movie won't be doing things like the anime. It's going to be westernized.
But I just can't see the whole story being laid out in the trailers. I feel like there's probably something more stuffed in there.
Like with anything else, it's all in the execution.
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I want to say 802.11 has been in a functional form since the early 1990's.
Ugh, I was thinking Matrix 1 in '99
I had a totally functional Tin Can 802.11 bridge to get internet from my neighbors in the late in 97. The card took an ISA slot on my motherboard and had a coax connection out the back to hook up an antenna. WiFi routers took awhile to show up, but wireless has been around at a consumer level for 20 years.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_802.11#802.11-1997_.28802.11_legacy.29
No, you asked where it's stated he was a non-standard connection to the Matrix. It's right there. The whole start of Revolutions is all about it.
Neo goes into some weird comma and then hey, it turns out he's inside the Matrix and they have to go in there to rescue him.
The movie outright shows this to be the case.
ed; in fact the rules setup in the first movie do kinda reinforce the feeling that it can't work that way, cause we're shown that breaking the hardline connection = death. But that's what makes the Revelayton so coooool, and when trying to exploit the connection without all the supporting hardware, Neo very nearly dies. It is fairly internally consistent.
If everybody in the Matrix has wi-fi, then the plot doesn't work, because they don't need the jacks to log in. Further, Agent Smith could just wireless into anyone he wants on the outside, and the movie is over.
If Neo is the only one with wireless capability that begs the question: "Why?" Is he The One ONLY because the machines gave him some extra hardware when he was a wee battery? And if that is the case, then the machines essentially created The One on purpose, and that' opens the door to a lot more braintwisters like, "Did the machines actually plan this all along?" That would explain the Oracle, for sure.
Or maybe Neo's brain evolved into a biological wireless router, which... weird, but sure. Seems like Trinity & Morpheus's medical equipment might have noticed that, though.
Basically, if The Matrix: Reloaded & Revolutions wanted to be taken seriously as sci-fi, they would have explained how Neo was interacting with the machines outside the Matrix. I mean, I guess that it's fine if they just want to say "It was magic all along," but Star Wars already fills the slot of "high fantasy dressed up like sci-fi," and it seems like a waste of all the potential for speculative fiction if you go that route.
Okay, you're not curious about the science, I get that. But it doesn't make the thing make sense, because it doesn't.
When I was watching it in the theater and blind Neo started seeing everything outlined in matrix code, I said, "Oh, come on." It totally took me out of the movie, just this blatant magic that took me right out of the setting. There was some stuff that was dumb before, but that just took it up to 11.
You asked where it's stated he can do this. I gave you where it's shown.
The how is not relevant to that and is not answered within the movie anyway. I can't tell you how. But he does it. It is a thing that happens in the movie.
The "how" is, in fact, relevant if you're me, or any number of other people who want movies to have internal consistency. First movie: Only hard port connections. Third movie: Magic wi-fi! Since the first movie is the only one that is hailed as an all-time hall of fame flick, I'm inclined to lean towards that one for telling me how the world works, especially because it does such a great job of it.
I just know that the Mega Man Battle Network games (which came out between 2001 and 2006) didn't feature wi-fi despite taking place in a setting where all electronics are connected to the "cyber world", so I assumed wi-fi wasn't prevalent enough yet at the time to feature in most fiction.
However, something caught my eye when I was looking for some Japanese takes on the movie. Turns out, I couldn't find it at first because... catch this....
They changed the name of the movie in Japan...
The actual Japanese name of "Ghost in the Shell" franchise is 「攻殻機動隊」 (Koukaku Kidoutai) or "Mobile Armored Riot Police". When I was searching for the Japanese name of the movie, I was only getting the anime and manga, and nothing on the live action movie. Turns out, the decided to call it this.
「ゴースト・イン・ザ・シェル」
goosuto in za sheru
The series had the English "Ghost in the Shell" subtitle for the first movie and manga, but the work as a whole as NEVER been called that Japan. The live action movie is completely missing the original "Koukaku Kidoutai" name altogether. Unless you know the 1995 movie was titled 「GHOST IN THE SHELL / 攻殻機動隊」 (And could read the English bit) you wouldn't even know it was the same franchise. Compare the wiki entry for the original movie vs the live action version. Choosing to use the "English" name for the movie really distances itself from the Japanese version and really earmarks it as something "foreign". There is nothing wrong with this. Japan has lots of foreign movies in their theaters. But this super-detaches it from the original franchise in a big way. Not only this, when looking down the rabbit hole I have only seen mention of the the original franchise in passing in relation to the new movie. More like "oh this is a live action adaption of the a Koukaku Kidoutai story" without really linking the two.
Just something I found interesting.
A review of a sizzle reel from GiTS, which is not promising to say the least and then there's the quote from the director who found the original anime movie "too philosophical and introspective."
And then ther's also the 1973 World on A Wire, based on the same novel. I think that was where the use of phones as a connection between the worlds comes from.
I'm really not sure of this only those elements that are vetted by popular or critical response are true position. That sounds like the definition of cherry-picking.
It's not inconsistent, either. The resistance is aware of the ethernet connections. So that's what they built their entire infrastructure around. I mean, I received a raspberry pi 3 over Christmas. I glanced at it and saw the ethernet port; it wasn't until later that day, when I pulled up the manual online, that I learned it also had built-in wi-fi. Nobody gave the resistance a manual.
The movies leave two choices: either the wi-fi is specific to a single individual, or everyone has the ability. It doesn't actually matter which one is true: what matters is that nobody in the resistance recognized that power. They didn't have any incentive to look into "what if ... wi-fi?" because they had the ethernet ports right there.
No incentive beyond that whole "if you can't get to a telephone when the agents come, you die," you mean? If they could just jack out at any time, you don't think that would make them at all curious? All that tech, all that ability to detect matrix signals, and it didn't occur to them to check for wireless routers in their own heads? I mean, presumably the squid-bots have a wireless connection.
It is honestly, fine. Lots of movies, even good movies, don't make sense. But, like, Interstellar didn't make any sense, and we called it out for that. So why are the Matrix sequels different?
What a load of horsebird dung. This isn't detaching it, this is the production team being fucking sloppy.
Let me throw this tidbit out there: When Edge of Tomorrow was released in Japan, it was titled All You Need Is Kill, which was the title of the Japanese light novel that the movie was based on.
Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
And as much as I enjoyed the book, I enjoyed the movie more
Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
WTF, that is the whole point of GiTS, come for the manga cyberfuture, stay for the philosophical introspection
MWO: Adamski
I didn't call Interstellar out. I tend to get grumpy when people call out movies.
I'm not interested in defending the films. I'm debating your position, because I think it's based on a willful misreading of the text. That you excised context from my post after complaining that someone was ignoring context irritates me.
Your argument rests on the supposition that the resistance is a) aware of wi-fi as a thing; b) can recognize a general wireless device; and c) can recognize a wireless device that's integrated directly into a brain. None of those things are supported by the films, and I'm not sure anybody could do c.
More specifically, the use of this power, whether they are aware of it in general or not; whether it is common or unique, is shown to have fatal consequences.
You're also assuming the resistance possesses tech that they are neither shown nor implied to have. Where is 'all this tech', 'all that ability to detect matrix signals' that you're describing? Their tech is so rudimentary they can only capture a fragment of the data, and that remains heavily encrypted. Their tech is clumsy, antiquated, or both; barely adequate to the task.
There is a dark side to taking the Matrix seriously, as well.
https://www.businessinsider.com.au/the-red-pill-reddit-2013-8
edit: That said, it's not surprising to me. The Matrix is one of the most popular sci-fi franchises in the world so people are going to be engaged into why and how the setting works.
Oh I thought that came out of a large fan following of the Marvel character Nuke
"Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
Well it is still anime...
None of them get that philosophical.
... wait, are we still talking about the Matrix, or...?
( :P )
SAC was better with it (but then again, they had two TV seasons and a movie to work with.)
I probably won't until after seeing the Scarjo one.
Or I might see it before, who knows?
Steam | XBL
It's still pretty rare in western film or games to have that kind of transhumanism
where someone's entire identity can be hacked, where they might not have ever been a real person, and even worse they'd never know for sure
you see it in books all the time, the most recent culture book I read was all about a universe where the self is an infinitely reproducible and altogether not that special thing
People who read a lot of books will always look at any movie attempting philosophy and go "oh how simplistic", but for most people they probably haven't thought about it
The shifting from orange to blue was mesmerizing.
Gorgeous film.
I'm already certain the GiTS movie won't be doing things like the anime. It's going to be westernized.
But I just can't see the whole story being laid out in the trailers. I feel like there's probably something more stuffed in there.
Like with anything else, it's all in the execution.
Oh, I agree. Despite even George Miller's comments. But hell, an excuse to see it on the big screen again? I'll take that.
Steam | XBL
I read this as a BDSM version