Our society is also so obsessed with celebrity we almost instinctively try to lionize any big name that dies.
Yeah I can guarantee most people haven't thought about Hugh this year until now
the last time I saw him was on some awful reality TV show 6-7 years back
a bunch of young women were competing to date him
and it was so sad
this doddering old man who could barely walk, with these fawning 20 year old women who had to wear skimpy outfits and pretend that he was the life of a party while he was struggling to breathe
Our society is also so obsessed with celebrity we almost instinctively try to lionize any big name that dies.
Yeah I can guarantee most people haven't thought about Hugh this year until now
the last time I saw him was on some awful reality TV show 6-7 years back
a bunch of young women were competing to date him
and it was so sad
this doddering old man who could barely walk, with these fawning 20 year old women who had to wear skimpy outfits and pretend that he was the life of a party while he was struggling to breathe
This thread is about Hugh Hefner, not Donald Trump.
I remember reading a while back that Playboy had stopped doing nude photoshoots.
Which kind of left me wondering what they do do, now.
They brought them back earlier this year, saying removing nudity was a mistake.
I'm seeing some people on Twitter point out Hefner/Playboy's role in advocating for a lot of civil rights issues, as well as for transgender rights, which is cool. And Playboy included no shortage of interviews with incredibly influential and important figures. I think Hugh's legacy is a complicated one, for sure, but he seemed to live a life well lived. I dunno.
Hey you know what I was doing some more reading on the shit Hefner was accused to doing with his girlfriends and I take this back. That shit sucks, and I don't want to appear like I'm dismissing it.
Raijin QuickfootI'm your Huckleberry YOU'RE NO DAISYRegistered User, ClubPAregular
If you want to see Hefner's finest moment watch The House Bunny.
There's a scene where he's on the phone with Anna Faris' character and she says something shocking to him and delivery of, "WHAT?" is one of the best things I have ever seen.
Hefner seems like the kind of person who got through his entire life without being told "no." There's no way you get to the end of that without becoming a monster.
Realizing lately that I don't really trust or respect basically any of the moderators here. So, good luck with life, friends! Hit me up on Twitter @DesertLeviathan
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Raijin QuickfootI'm your Huckleberry YOU'RE NO DAISYRegistered User, ClubPAregular
I could be waaaaay off but I don't get the impression he was a monster as much as he was just never told what he was doing was wrong... Maybe?
I have no idea honestly. I just never felt like he was this horrible, evil human.
I'm quite certain that any progressiveness he leaned on earlier in life was to make him money by catering to a younger generation at the time, and his values pretty much aged with them. There are a bunch of times in the past when they tried to change things up to engage with younger people, but I guess once the internet happened there was no way they were going to get any new converts, and always ended up reverting back to what worked way back when.
I could be waaaaay off but I don't get the impression he was a monster as much as he was just never told what he was doing was wrong... Maybe?
I have no idea honestly. I just never felt like he was this horrible, evil human.
I don't see why we need to be giving people, especially rich white men, the out of "never told what they were doing was wrong". "I didn't know it was wrong" is one of the oldest excuses in the book and it stops being acceptable somewhere around the time you start developing actual deductive reasoning skills.
I could be waaaaay off but I don't get the impression he was a monster as much as he was just never told what he was doing was wrong... Maybe?
I have no idea honestly. I just never felt like he was this horrible, evil human.
I don't see why we need to be giving people, especially rich white men, the out of "never told what they were doing was wrong". "I didn't know it was wrong" is one of the oldest excuses in the book and it stops being acceptable somewhere around the time you start developing actual deductive reasoning skills.
Yeah, there were more than enough ex-bunnies or other people in the know who publically said what he was doing was wrong; he just opted to never actually listen. It's be more accurate to say that he never saw any negative consequences for what he was doing for words to ever reach him. Whenever someone spoke up about what was going on, typically one of his models, a counter-narrative would quickly emerge, to villify the person, usually female and discredit them.
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Shortytouching the meatIntergalactic Cool CourtRegistered Userregular
I could be waaaaay off but I don't get the impression he was a monster as much as he was just never told what he was doing was wrong... Maybe?
I have no idea honestly. I just never felt like he was this horrible, evil human.
I don't see why we need to be giving people, especially rich white men, the out of "never told what they were doing was wrong". "I didn't know it was wrong" is one of the oldest excuses in the book and it stops being acceptable somewhere around the time you start developing actual deductive reasoning skills.
if "I was just following orders" won't excuse war crimes, "I didn't know it was wrong" certainly doesn't excuse misogyny
I'll mourn the death of Playboy, because it's the first place I saw a naked boob, but Hefner? Don't know much about him, and what I do know sounds gross.
I feel like you shouldn't mourn the death of people you don't personally know. It's newsworthy but who exactly benefits from being mourned by strangers? Mr. Hefner was a dude in a weird profession that did ambiguously good and/or bad stuff and now nothing anybody does can affect him in any way. He had no plans regarding me and wouldn't have ever cared in the least bit whether I mourned him or not unless he was a massive egotist, which he might have been but it's not like he's going to check. His business and effect on society and culture was dwarfed into nothingness long before he died, which is actually a pretty accommodating way to disturb the least amount of people by his passing. He will presumably be mourned by the people he most wanted to mourn him unless he messed up the last years of his life or had unrealistic expectations.
Marty: The future, it's where you're going? Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
I feel like you shouldn't mourn the death of people you don't personally know. It's newsworthy but who exactly benefits from being mourned by strangers? Mr. Hefner was a dude in a weird profession that did ambiguously good and/or bad stuff and now nothing anybody does can affect him in any way. He had no plans regarding me and wouldn't have ever cared in the least bit whether I mourned him or not unless he was a massive egotist, which he might have been but it's not like he's going to check. His business and effect on society and culture was dwarfed into nothingness long before he died, which is actually a pretty accommodating way to disturb the least amount of people by his passing. He will presumably be mourned by the people he most wanted to mourn him unless he messed up the last years of his life or had unrealistic expectations.
This particular example notwithstanding, I think it's perfectly reasonable and natural to mourn the death of someone who had an impact or brought meaning to your life, even if you didn't personally know them. I don't think you're gonna get much traction telling people they shouldn't mourn the death of, say, Martin Luther King, Jr. or Muhammad Ali or even cultural icons like David Bowie. If that person was important to you, it's not at all strange to want to mourn them.
Mourning is never really for the benefit of the deceased, but for the benefit of the mourners. Collective mourning is a show of solidarity between those affected by a death, and individual mourning is part of the grieving process. Even if you've never met a celebrity, it's entirely possible they had a big impact on your life in some manner and you'd have feelings you need to work out through mourning.
I feel like you shouldn't mourn the death of people you don't personally know. It's newsworthy but who exactly benefits from being mourned by strangers? Mr. Hefner was a dude in a weird profession that did ambiguously good and/or bad stuff and now nothing anybody does can affect him in any way. He had no plans regarding me and wouldn't have ever cared in the least bit whether I mourned him or not unless he was a massive egotist, which he might have been but it's not like he's going to check. His business and effect on society and culture was dwarfed into nothingness long before he died, which is actually a pretty accommodating way to disturb the least amount of people by his passing. He will presumably be mourned by the people he most wanted to mourn him unless he messed up the last years of his life or had unrealistic expectations.
This particular example notwithstanding, I think it's perfectly reasonable and natural to mourn the death of someone who had an impact or brought meaning to your life, even if you didn't personally know them. I don't think you're gonna get much traction telling people they shouldn't mourn the death of, say, Martin Luther King, Jr. or Muhammad Ali or even cultural icons like David Bowie. If that person was important to you, it's not at all strange to want to mourn them.
I guess, but it should be the exception to the rule. I realize this is hypocritical, but I find the cultural tendency to react to someone's death because they were famous accelerational. If you do it too frequently, it feels like it is devaluing the people you truly mourned, to the point where it actually makes sense to do the opposite - rejoice or make glib of the death of someone you didn't value or you negatively valued - to maintain a contrast of respect. I think it's perfectly acceptable to make light of a person's death as long as you're sure you're not being manipulated by your own subconscious logic. I don't trust myself in that respect at all which is why I abstain.
But then again, what can we really say we achieve through mourning? Can we really call the respectful celebration we give mourning; is it in the same category as the black clad, despondent, somber mourning of tradition, or should we really call it something else to distinguish the activity? I know that to mourn is to feel grief. Do we celebrate and progress because of the grief or because we reject it? When a beloved person dies, and because of that we enact their agenda or make the world more in their image, is that triggered by our mourning or by our respect and determination?
I feel like if something good comes of mourning, it has the highest chance in a person who has an emotional connection to the deceased. Grief inflicts a grievous stress on the psyche, and if it is artificial, then all it does is damage your health, and only the most sadistic of the dying would want that. I don't fully understand how people can come out of grief more healed than when they went in, but something tells me this has to do with real human connection. To be topical, it's like masturbating instead of having sex; some part of your brain knows it's not real and warps your emotional functionality just a little bit. Or maybe emotion is really simple and how we feel in the moment depends only on that moment, I dunno
Marty: The future, it's where you're going? Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
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Garlic Breadi'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm aRegistered User, Disagreeableregular
I feel like you shouldn't mourn the death of people you don't personally know. It's newsworthy but who exactly benefits from being mourned by strangers? Mr. Hefner was a dude in a weird profession that did ambiguously good and/or bad stuff and now nothing anybody does can affect him in any way. He had no plans regarding me and wouldn't have ever cared in the least bit whether I mourned him or not unless he was a massive egotist, which he might have been but it's not like he's going to check. His business and effect on society and culture was dwarfed into nothingness long before he died, which is actually a pretty accommodating way to disturb the least amount of people by his passing. He will presumably be mourned by the people he most wanted to mourn him unless he messed up the last years of his life or had unrealistic expectations.
This particular example notwithstanding, I think it's perfectly reasonable and natural to mourn the death of someone who had an impact or brought meaning to your life, even if you didn't personally know them. I don't think you're gonna get much traction telling people they shouldn't mourn the death of, say, Martin Luther King, Jr. or Muhammad Ali or even cultural icons like David Bowie. If that person was important to you, it's not at all strange to want to mourn them.
I guess, but it should be the exception to the rule. I realize this is hypocritical, but I find the cultural tendency to react to someone's death because they were famous accelerational. If you do it too frequently, it feels like it is devaluing the people you truly mourned, to the point where it actually makes sense to do the opposite - rejoice or make glib of the death of someone you didn't value or you negatively valued - to maintain a contrast of respect. I think it's perfectly acceptable to make light of a person's death as long as you're sure you're not being manipulated by your own subconscious logic. I don't trust myself in that respect at all which is why I abstain.
But then again, what can we really say we achieve through mourning? Can we really call the respectful celebration we give mourning; is it in the same category as the black clad, despondent, somber mourning of tradition, or should we really call it something else to distinguish the activity? I know that to mourn is to feel grief. Do we celebrate and progress because of the grief or because we reject it? When a beloved person dies, and because of that we enact their agenda or make the world more in their image, is that triggered by our mourning or by our respect and determination?
I feel like if something good comes of mourning, it has the highest chance in a person who has an emotional connection to the deceased. Grief inflicts a grievous stress on the psyche, and if it is artificial, then all it does is damage your health, and only the most sadistic of the dying would want that. I don't fully understand how people can come out of grief more healed than when they went in, but something tells me this has to do with real human connection. To be topical, it's like masturbating instead of having sex; some part of your brain knows it's not real and warps your emotional functionality just a little bit. Or maybe emotion is really simple and how we feel in the moment depends only on that moment, I dunno
...people can feel sad about other people dying.
And your last example is incredibly off putting.
MalReynolds on
"A new take on the epic fantasy genre... Darkly comic, relatable characters... twisted storyline."
"Readers who prefer tension and romance, Maledictions: The Offering, delivers... As serious YA fiction, I’ll give it five stars out of five. As a novel? Four and a half." - Liz Ellor My new novel: Maledictions: The Offering. Now in Paperback!
It's something I picked up from some internet article I read and while it hasn't really affected my behavior, I can't say for certain whether there isn't some truth to it
Marty: The future, it's where you're going? Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
It's something I picked up from some internet article I read and while it hasn't really affected my behavior, I can't say for certain whether there isn't some truth to it
Read more, then.
"A new take on the epic fantasy genre... Darkly comic, relatable characters... twisted storyline."
"Readers who prefer tension and romance, Maledictions: The Offering, delivers... As serious YA fiction, I’ll give it five stars out of five. As a novel? Four and a half." - Liz Ellor My new novel: Maledictions: The Offering. Now in Paperback!
It's something I picked up from some internet article I read and while it hasn't really affected my behavior, I can't say for certain whether there isn't some truth to it
Read more, then.
I have, and all I can tell you is that the science of sexuality is vastly underdeveloped
Marty: The future, it's where you're going? Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
paladin you're not very good at understanding other people
That's a given, and it's not really something that can be changed by the realization
Marty: The future, it's where you're going? Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
i'm more suggesting that given this absence, lecturing people on how to react to things, or science you've read about reacting to things, seems ill-advised
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TonkkaSome one in the club tonightHas stolen my ideas.Registered Userregular
I had a whole thing about the sci-fi and horror writers whose careers he helped jumpstart but they're probably all white guys?
I don't know.
He was a sexually progressive guy for his day and employed a lot of women when other companies didn't. And yes he had ulterior motives and was a creepy as fuck old dude so fine he's dead but his daughter runs that shit now? I don't know.
A person who impacted history for good or bad is gone, so, oh no.
I had a whole thing about the sci-fi and horror writers whose careers he helped jumpstart but they're probably all white guys?
I don't know.
He was a sexually progressive guy for his day and employed a lot of women when other companies didn't. And yes he had ulterior motives and was a creepy as fuck old dude so fine he's dead but his daughter runs that shit now? I don't know.
A person who impacted history for good or bad is gone, so, oh no.
The dude was gross, but had a bigger impact on American culture in his own lifetime--not to mention the way his lawyers (and Larry Flint's) helped shape the modern legal landscape of acceptable First Amendment practices--than many US Presidents. That sure is a hell of a thing.
i'm more suggesting that given this absence, lecturing people on how to react to things, or science you've read about reacting to things, seems ill-advised
I guess it was a little pushy. I just felt it was a good time to bring it up, since not many people have a huge emotional stake in Mr. Hefner's passing and I wouldn't be ruining the moment for anybody. I won't bring it up again since that will defeat the whole purpose.
Marty: The future, it's where you're going? Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
i'm more suggesting that given this absence, lecturing people on how to react to things, or science you've read about reacting to things, seems ill-advised
I guess it was a little pushy. I just felt it was a good time to bring it up, since not many people have a huge emotional stake in Mr. Hefner's passing and I wouldn't be ruining the moment for anybody. I won't bring it up again since that will defeat the whole purpose.
there is never a good time to tell people to not mourn the dead
i'm more suggesting that given this absence, lecturing people on how to react to things, or science you've read about reacting to things, seems ill-advised
I guess it was a little pushy. I just felt it was a good time to bring it up, since not many people have a huge emotional stake in Mr. Hefner's passing and I wouldn't be ruining the moment for anybody. I won't bring it up again since that will defeat the whole purpose.
there is never a good time to tell people to not mourn the dead
Not unless it's a situation where you follow up with, "For he is risen!"
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MaddocI'm Bobbin Threadbare, are you my mother?Registered Userregular
there are a hell of a lot of boy-men on the internet today vigorously defending Hef in part because they want to become him. ugh.
Clearly they are all appreciative of the work he did in service of publishing and civil ri- Oh wait no they just really like that he surrounded himself with women, dang, should have seen that one coming.
Posts
the last time I saw him was on some awful reality TV show 6-7 years back
a bunch of young women were competing to date him
and it was so sad
this doddering old man who could barely walk, with these fawning 20 year old women who had to wear skimpy outfits and pretend that he was the life of a party while he was struggling to breathe
This thread is about Hugh Hefner, not Donald Trump.
Hey you know what I was doing some more reading on the shit Hefner was accused to doing with his girlfriends and I take this back. That shit sucks, and I don't want to appear like I'm dismissing it.
This essay on the matter is a doozy.
There's a scene where he's on the phone with Anna Faris' character and she says something shocking to him and delivery of, "WHAT?" is one of the best things I have ever seen.
I have no idea honestly. I just never felt like he was this horrible, evil human.
https://pictorial.jezebel.com/up-against-the-centerfold-what-it-was-like-to-report-o-1762716355/amp
http://titsandsass.com/hugh-hefner-rapist-and-revolutionary/
I don't see why we need to be giving people, especially rich white men, the out of "never told what they were doing was wrong". "I didn't know it was wrong" is one of the oldest excuses in the book and it stops being acceptable somewhere around the time you start developing actual deductive reasoning skills.
Yeah, there were more than enough ex-bunnies or other people in the know who publically said what he was doing was wrong; he just opted to never actually listen. It's be more accurate to say that he never saw any negative consequences for what he was doing for words to ever reach him. Whenever someone spoke up about what was going on, typically one of his models, a counter-narrative would quickly emerge, to villify the person, usually female and discredit them.
if "I was just following orders" won't excuse war crimes, "I didn't know it was wrong" certainly doesn't excuse misogyny
She has not mentioned this at all and on Facebook has explicitly said when asked that she has very few good things to say about her time there.
steam | Dokkan: 868846562
Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
This particular example notwithstanding, I think it's perfectly reasonable and natural to mourn the death of someone who had an impact or brought meaning to your life, even if you didn't personally know them. I don't think you're gonna get much traction telling people they shouldn't mourn the death of, say, Martin Luther King, Jr. or Muhammad Ali or even cultural icons like David Bowie. If that person was important to you, it's not at all strange to want to mourn them.
who are you to tell me how to feel after hearing someone died?
I guess, but it should be the exception to the rule. I realize this is hypocritical, but I find the cultural tendency to react to someone's death because they were famous accelerational. If you do it too frequently, it feels like it is devaluing the people you truly mourned, to the point where it actually makes sense to do the opposite - rejoice or make glib of the death of someone you didn't value or you negatively valued - to maintain a contrast of respect. I think it's perfectly acceptable to make light of a person's death as long as you're sure you're not being manipulated by your own subconscious logic. I don't trust myself in that respect at all which is why I abstain.
But then again, what can we really say we achieve through mourning? Can we really call the respectful celebration we give mourning; is it in the same category as the black clad, despondent, somber mourning of tradition, or should we really call it something else to distinguish the activity? I know that to mourn is to feel grief. Do we celebrate and progress because of the grief or because we reject it? When a beloved person dies, and because of that we enact their agenda or make the world more in their image, is that triggered by our mourning or by our respect and determination?
I feel like if something good comes of mourning, it has the highest chance in a person who has an emotional connection to the deceased. Grief inflicts a grievous stress on the psyche, and if it is artificial, then all it does is damage your health, and only the most sadistic of the dying would want that. I don't fully understand how people can come out of grief more healed than when they went in, but something tells me this has to do with real human connection. To be topical, it's like masturbating instead of having sex; some part of your brain knows it's not real and warps your emotional functionality just a little bit. Or maybe emotion is really simple and how we feel in the moment depends only on that moment, I dunno
Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
This does not, in any way, preclude someone from grieving over someone they've never met
There are a ton of celebrities or pop culture people that I will mourn more than my own family
...people can feel sad about other people dying.
And your last example is incredibly off putting.
"Readers who prefer tension and romance, Maledictions: The Offering, delivers... As serious YA fiction, I’ll give it five stars out of five. As a novel? Four and a half." - Liz Ellor
My new novel: Maledictions: The Offering. Now in Paperback!
It's something I picked up from some internet article I read and while it hasn't really affected my behavior, I can't say for certain whether there isn't some truth to it
Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
Read more, then.
"Readers who prefer tension and romance, Maledictions: The Offering, delivers... As serious YA fiction, I’ll give it five stars out of five. As a novel? Four and a half." - Liz Ellor
My new novel: Maledictions: The Offering. Now in Paperback!
Weed
I have, and all I can tell you is that the science of sexuality is vastly underdeveloped
Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
That's a given, and it's not really something that can be changed by the realization
Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
I don't know.
He was a sexually progressive guy for his day and employed a lot of women when other companies didn't. And yes he had ulterior motives and was a creepy as fuck old dude so fine he's dead but his daughter runs that shit now? I don't know.
A person who impacted history for good or bad is gone, so, oh no.
But I'm always kinda sad when a member of the older caste of cultural icons dies. A sign of the relentless forward march of time.
It's like when I was a kid and my mom would say something like "Did you hear James Stewart died?"
And I'd be like... "James who?"
And then she'd feel old.
Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
The dude was gross, but had a bigger impact on American culture in his own lifetime--not to mention the way his lawyers (and Larry Flint's) helped shape the modern legal landscape of acceptable First Amendment practices--than many US Presidents. That sure is a hell of a thing.
I guess it was a little pushy. I just felt it was a good time to bring it up, since not many people have a huge emotional stake in Mr. Hefner's passing and I wouldn't be ruining the moment for anybody. I won't bring it up again since that will defeat the whole purpose.
Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
there is never a good time to tell people to not mourn the dead
Not unless it's a situation where you follow up with, "For he is risen!"
Clearly they are all appreciative of the work he did in service of publishing and civil ri- Oh wait no they just really like that he surrounded himself with women, dang, should have seen that one coming.