Games lie and hide information all the fucking time and no one gives near as big a shit. The only reason why this is a "big deal" and people are crying about being "lied to" is that it's loot box adjacent. Even though it's consistent with them being anti-farming for things that aren't attached to loot boxes, like chests and whatnot, since this time it is affecting loot boxes its suddenly not only considered way more scummy than the exact system functioning elsewhere, but is also determined to be a malicious targeted fleecing of the players instead of an intentional design decision that applies to all of their systems.
If you want Bungie to communicate more, blowing up bullshit like this way out of proportion surely isn't going to entice them to engage the players as rational actors.
But you at least know when you're being effected by the chest farming cap.
Sirialisof the Halite Throne.Registered Userregular
edited November 2017
If I recall right, Bungie even took down the servers immediately when that rep gain bug with dismantling the Dead Orbit ship showed up, I believe @Muffinatron was the one that found and reported that one on Bungies forum.
... Then we checked a couple of times to see if it still worked.
Sirialis on
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SurfpossumA nonentitytrying to preserve the anonymity he so richly deserves.Registered Userregular
If Bungie found out that they had given too much Bright Engram XP to players (Unthinkable, companies triplecheck anything related to their cash shops economy otherwise their publisher destroys them)
What would Bungie have done then?
IMMEDIATE SERVER STOP UNTIL IT WAS FIXED.
They have done this in Destiny 1 already, back when there was a bug that gave strange coins, it took 10 minutes until all the servers were offline and only brought back up when the emergency fix was ready.
This inconveniences players, so its rated as "When we get around to it"
I mean, the numbers being displayed incorrectly has literally no impact on gameplay or the rate at which you earn brights, so... no, it doesn't seem like it would warrant taking the servers down.
Point at anywhere in my post that mentions anything about numbers being displayed incorrectly.
Taking the servers down so you can earn bright engrams faster is not... that's not... what.
Servers are taken offline to fix pressing errors, which players being unhappy about their engram earn rates is not. If there was an exploit or oversight that let people get a ton of bright engrams and build up a huge dust collection then yes, that would be a servers go offline sort of issue. If you cannot wait until the next scheduled downtime for rates to get adjusted then the problem is on your end.
The thing is, I actually think microtransactions are potentially quite harmful to the industry and there should be much more care exercised in their implementation, maaaaaaaybe even actual regulation (or maybe have the ESRB slap more labels on things, I dunno).
But this whole business about XP rates is mired in people being unhappy with their bright engrams specifically and the game in general and it's muddling everything.
If Bungie found out that they had given too much Bright Engram XP to players (Unthinkable, companies triplecheck anything related to their cash shops economy otherwise their publisher destroys them)
What would Bungie have done then?
IMMEDIATE SERVER STOP UNTIL IT WAS FIXED.
They have done this in Destiny 1 already, back when there was a bug that gave strange coins, it took 10 minutes until all the servers were offline and only brought back up when the emergency fix was ready.
This inconveniences players, so its rated as "When we get around to it"
I mean, the numbers being displayed incorrectly has literally no impact on gameplay or the rate at which you earn brights, so... no, it doesn't seem like it would warrant taking the servers down.
Point at anywhere in my post that mentions anything about numbers being displayed incorrectly.
Taking the servers down so you can earn bright engrams faster is not... that's not... what.
Servers are taken offline to fix pressing errors, which players being unhappy about their engram earn rates is not.
If I recall right, Bungie even took down the servers immediately when that rep gain bug with dismantling the Dead Orbit ship showed up, I believe @Muffinatron was the one that found and reported that one on Bungies forum.
... Then we checked a couple of times to see if it still worked.
Yeah, these really pressing errors, that this vendor let you rank up for free if you had a super rare ship, that one was handled as a "Stop servers immediately" situation.
Yet when Nightstalkers found the Infinite Super glitch in PvP, It took Bungie several weeks and a completely broken Iron Banner to even acknowledge that one.
Games lie and hide information all the fucking time and no one gives near as big a shit. The only reason why this is a "big deal" and people are crying about being "lied to" is that it's loot box adjacent. Even though it's consistent with them being anti-farming for things that aren't attached to loot boxes, like chests and whatnot, since this time it is affecting loot boxes its suddenly not only considered way more scummy than the exact system functioning elsewhere, but is also determined to be a malicious targeted fleecing of the players instead of an intentional design decision that applies to all of their systems.
If you want Bungie to communicate more, blowing up bullshit like this way out of proportion surely isn't going to entice them to engage the players as rational actors.
I mean, yeah. Sorry, was this supposed to be a counter-point?
When you are throttling XP to encourage people to buy microtransactions, it is different then when you are doing it for some other balance reason. Cause in one fo them you are trying to manipulate people into spending money on your lottery tickets.
If Bungie found out that they had given too much Bright Engram XP to players (Unthinkable, companies triplecheck anything related to their cash shops economy otherwise their publisher destroys them)
What would Bungie have done then?
IMMEDIATE SERVER STOP UNTIL IT WAS FIXED.
They have done this in Destiny 1 already, back when there was a bug that gave strange coins, it took 10 minutes until all the servers were offline and only brought back up when the emergency fix was ready.
This inconveniences players, so its rated as "When we get around to it"
I mean, the numbers being displayed incorrectly has literally no impact on gameplay or the rate at which you earn brights, so... no, it doesn't seem like it would warrant taking the servers down.
Point at anywhere in my post that mentions anything about numbers being displayed incorrectly.
Taking the servers down so you can earn bright engrams faster is not... that's not... what.
Servers are taken offline to fix pressing errors, which players being unhappy about their engram earn rates is not.
If I recall right, Bungie even took down the servers immediately when that rep gain bug with dismantling the Dead Orbit ship showed up, I believe Muffinatron was the one that found and reported that one on Bungies forum.
... Then we checked a couple of times to see if it still worked.
Yeah, these really pressing errors, that this vendor let you rank up for free if you had a super rare ship, that was a "Stop servers immediately" situation.
Yet when Nightstalkers found the Infinite Super glitch in PvP, that it took them 6 weeks to fix.
Another difference between these two examples is that one is likely a simple fix while the other potentially takes way more work. Glitches involving gameplay can be difficult to track down.
That aside, leaving an exploit like the former online also accrues "damage" way faster, so yes, inconveniences to players take a back seat.
Also the whole Battlefront 2 debacle shows complaining loudly Does Actually cause devs and pubs to sit up and change things
Well yeah, when there are Disney execs to call time on the nonsense...
There are execs in the Activision board room right now cussing up a storm because if you don't think this won't affect lootbox and DLC sales you are woefully misunderstanding the situation.
So things I've learned in the last two weeks of Crucible:
1. I was a moron for not using Mida/Last Hope with Stompies sooner. It's like I can see the Matrix now.
2. It's super frustrating knowing that I have now fixed my connection issues (I'm always a green bar in D2 compared to the shenanigans in D1) and yet still have to deal with laggy bastards on the other team
3. Nothing annoys me more than someone teabagging me when they haven't earned it. (i.e. they didn't even get a shot in, but they'll teabag me when their teammates have managed to deal with me)
Hunter Throwing Knife seems like complete garbage to me.
Is there some use for it I'm not seeing?
Explosive knives work okay as a secondary grenade, since you can hit people in cover with the splash damage. The precision knives are hard to use in PvP but PvE they can be chained alright if you have Jesus aim
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SurfpossumA nonentitytrying to preserve the anonymity he so richly deserves.Registered Userregular
Hunter Throwing Knife seems like complete garbage to me.
Is there some use for it I'm not seeing?
It feels amazing when you manage to kill someone with it. The arc and slow travel time will occasionally let you nail someone with it as they round a corner while you slip back into cover so they don't get a chance to shoot at you, but that's usually luck.
Also when a teammate steps in front of you as you throw it the knife stays stuck in the back of their head.
Also the whole Battlefront 2 debacle shows complaining loudly Does Actually cause devs and pubs to sit up and change things
Well yeah, when there are Disney execs to call time on the nonsense...
There are execs in the Activision board room right now cussing up a storm because if you don't think this won't affect lootbox and DLC sales you are woefully misunderstanding the situation.
Nah, they're too busy dreaming up new, more evil, ways to part children from their pocket money.
Hunter Throwing Knife seems like complete garbage to me.
Is there some use for it I'm not seeing?
Explosive knives work okay as a secondary grenade, since you can hit people in cover with the splash damage. The precision knives are hard to use in PvP but PvE they can be chained alright if you have Jesus aim
Note that Explosive Knives are on the same tree as "shoot GG 6 times in 3 seconds have fun" so that's why hardly anyone in PVP uses them
Hunter Throwing Knife seems like complete garbage to me.
Is there some use for it I'm not seeing?
Explosive knives work okay as a secondary grenade, since you can hit people in cover with the splash damage. The precision knives are hard to use in PvP but PvE they can be chained alright if you have Jesus aim
Note that Explosive Knives are on the same tree as "shoot GG 6 times in 3 seconds have fun" so that's why hardly anyone in PVP uses them
Also why you just don't take that 6 shot perk like all tryhards :P
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Sirialisof the Halite Throne.Registered Userregular
Also the whole Battlefront 2 debacle shows complaining loudly Does Actually cause devs and pubs to sit up and change things
Well yeah, when there are Disney execs to call time on the nonsense...
There are execs in the Activision board room right now cussing up a storm because if you don't think this won't affect lootbox and DLC sales you are woefully misunderstanding the situation.
Nah, they're too busy dreaming up new, more evil, ways to part children from their pocket money.
IDK. I imagine they're saying make X amount of money or we'll stop funding you because you're no longer profitable. And that's about it.
Then the devs go "okay, how can we get that amount of money to satisfy the execs who are the beck and call of the shareholders? Let's <exploitative thing here>."
Execs: Will this get X amount of money? We gave you Y amount of money to make this and we expect X. You said you would make X and our projections lined up to be X so... where's X.
Devs: Yes
Execs: Do it. /shrugmoji. If it doesn't make X then we have a problem. So you better make X.
tastydonuts on
“I used to draw, hard to admit that I used to draw...”
Chaining throwing knives that come back on a precision kill is one of my true joys in PvE. It's particularly easy to do this with taken thralls and psions, the huge glowing spot is hard to miss.
Now if only they hadn't buggered the damage some and had either made a perk or exotic that automatically gave it back to you when you threw it and missed, then we'd really have something.
Chaining throwing knives that come back on a precision kill is one of my true joys in PvE. It's particularly easy to do this with taken thralls and psions, the huge glowing spot is hard to miss.
Now if only they hadn't buggered the damage some and had either made a perk or exotic that automatically gave it back to you when you threw it and missed, then we'd really have something.
Wasting throwing knives and smoke grenades is Classic Destiny. No way they're going to fix that.
“I used to draw, hard to admit that I used to draw...”
Games lie and hide information all the fucking time and no one gives near as big a shit. The only reason why this is a "big deal" and people are crying about being "lied to" is that it's loot box adjacent. Even though it's consistent with them being anti-farming for things that aren't attached to loot boxes, like chests and whatnot, since this time it is affecting loot boxes its suddenly not only considered way more scummy than the exact system functioning elsewhere, but is also determined to be a malicious targeted fleecing of the players instead of an intentional design decision that applies to all of their systems.
If you want Bungie to communicate more, blowing up bullshit like this way out of proportion surely isn't going to entice them to engage the players as rational actors.
I mean, yeah. Sorry, was this supposed to be a counter-point?
When you are throttling XP to encourage people to buy microtransactions, it is different then when you are doing it for some other balance reason. Cause in one fo them you are trying to manipulate people into spending money on your lottery tickets.
Except they're throttling XP to discourage repetitive farming, the same as they do elsewhere. Might as well go further down the conspiracy hole and declare that all the other opaque throttling they do is a smokescreen to hide their true nefarious intent of tricking people into paying money for loot boxes. I mean to do that you'd have to ignore that an opaque system like that doesn't encourage people to spend money, but why aknowledge that when you can get your rage on?
I finally got the IB titan gauntlets, they're the only armor from the set I have, but it looks kind of awesome with the NM titan set/shader so I think I might be good
Chaining throwing knives that come back on a precision kill is one of my true joys in PvE. It's particularly easy to do this with taken thralls and psions, the huge glowing spot is hard to miss.
Now if only they hadn't buggered the damage some and had either made a perk or exotic that automatically gave it back to you when you threw it and missed, then we'd really have something.
Wasting throwing knives and smoke grenades is Classic Destiny. No way they're going to fix that.
my favorite is when i am like inches out of melee range when i try to punch something so i end up throwing a smoke grenade at it instead
Allegedly a voice of reason.
+7
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SurfpossumA nonentitytrying to preserve the anonymity he so richly deserves.Registered Userregular
Chaining throwing knives that come back on a precision kill is one of my true joys in PvE. It's particularly easy to do this with taken thralls and psions, the huge glowing spot is hard to miss.
Now if only they hadn't buggered the damage some and had either made a perk or exotic that automatically gave it back to you when you threw it and missed, then we'd really have something.
You can use gambler's dodge to refresh it, I think. That helps smooth out the occasional miss.
But yes having an unlimited supply would be hilarious.
Nobody is mad they throttled XP. They're mad they hid that they were doing so. If they had showed the proper numbers from the start this would be a non-issue.
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ChanusHarbinger of the Spicy Rooster ApocalypseThe Flames of a Thousand Collapsed StarsRegistered Userregular
Nobody is mad they throttled XP. They're mad they hid that they were doing so. If they had showed the proper numbers from the start this would be a non-issue.
that's not entirely clear from the arguments but it is a position i can agree to
though i'm not mad personally
Allegedly a voice of reason.
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awsimoa perfectly cromulent human; definitely not a robotRegistered Userregular
SurfpossumA nonentitytrying to preserve the anonymity he so richly deserves.Registered Userregular
In other news, I have been loving blink, especially when I end up in a horrible situation. It's usually like 30-70 odds that I get away versus smack into a wall or just get shot down, but it is ceaselessly hilarious to me to be booping around while two or three people spin wildly after me.
I basically have the Daffy Duck "wahoo oohoo" noises playing in my head the whole time.
Nobody is mad they throttled XP. They're mad they hid that they were doing so. If they had showed the proper numbers from the start this would be a non-issue.
that's not entirely clear from the arguments but it is a position i can agree to
though i'm not mad personally
I just think it's amusing that when the first videos came up about this I said that it felt like the first reddit guy was trying to make it seem like Bungie was operating in bad faith and that the videos were inconclusive and just showed the UI being wonky (the tests that confirmed the throttling were much more thorough)... and lo and behold they were acting in bad faith by hiding the XP throttling.
edit: what was the thing we (here/reddit/etc) were talking about them doing before this happened? I don't think it was two tokens and a blue...?
tastydonuts on
“I used to draw, hard to admit that I used to draw...”
Nobody is mad they throttled XP. They're mad they hid that they were doing so. If they had showed the proper numbers from the start this would be a non-issue.
If that were the case then where was the equivalent shitstorm when people figured out chests were being throttled without any form of UI to indicate what was happening? Including apparently affecting Cayde's weekly chests as well? If what you say is true, that people are just mad about the hiding, then those other instances of the same thing would have had equivalent uproars. But that's not true: people are madder about this because they can heap their feelings about loot boxes onto it as well, even though there's no indication this system was put in place because of loot boxes. I'd argue that the same system would have existed if all you got from levelling was still a mote of light, but people have convinced themselves otherwise.
I've been poking in a bit but haven't put serious hours in. Having completed the raid, that was neat but I don't really see a need to farm it. I definitely want to see new content and if I'm around will help out for others and stuff, but I have no desire to go seek it out.
Hoping the DLC puts the versions in a place where they can start putting out more frequent updates. I'm still thinking they were waiting on the first DLC for major adjustments so they can keep PC and console versions as close as possible, but we'll see.
Nobody is mad they throttled XP. They're mad they hid that they were doing so. If they had showed the proper numbers from the start this would be a non-issue.
If that were the case then where was the equivalent shitstorm when people figured out chests were being throttled without any form of UI to indicate what was happening? Including apparently affecting Cayde's weekly chests as well? If what you say is true, that people are just mad about the hiding, then those other instances of the same thing would have had equivalent uproars. But that's not true: people are madder about this because they can heap their feelings about loot boxes onto it as well, even though there's no indication this system was put in place because of loot boxes. I'd argue that the same system would have existed if all you got from levelling was still a mote of light, but people have convinced themselves otherwise.
Because Chests show you exactly what you get when you open it. There's no number crunching to be done, you open a chest and nothing comes out, it's easy to see what's happening.
And why can't people be upset about lootboxes exactly? Especially in this situation where they directly benefit from sbortchanging XP by selling XP boosters?
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Sirialisof the Halite Throne.Registered Userregular
I'm still amazed that we havent seen a single QoL improvement yet.
Posts
But you at least know when you're being effected by the chest farming cap.
Critical Failures - Havenhold Campaign • August St. Cloud (Human Ranger)
=[
@Muffinatron still looking for prestiege trophy!
... Then we checked a couple of times to see if it still worked.
Servers are taken offline to fix pressing errors, which players being unhappy about their engram earn rates is not. If there was an exploit or oversight that let people get a ton of bright engrams and build up a huge dust collection then yes, that would be a servers go offline sort of issue. If you cannot wait until the next scheduled downtime for rates to get adjusted then the problem is on your end.
The thing is, I actually think microtransactions are potentially quite harmful to the industry and there should be much more care exercised in their implementation, maaaaaaaybe even actual regulation (or maybe have the ESRB slap more labels on things, I dunno).
But this whole business about XP rates is mired in people being unhappy with their bright engrams specifically and the game in general and it's muddling everything.
Yeah, these really pressing errors, that this vendor let you rank up for free if you had a super rare ship, that one was handled as a "Stop servers immediately" situation.
Yet when Nightstalkers found the Infinite Super glitch in PvP, It took Bungie several weeks and a completely broken Iron Banner to even acknowledge that one.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2015/10/15/an-infinite-shadowshot-exploit-is-currently-destroying-destinys-iron-banner/#181f6b243eb1
Just lately I find it increasingly difficult to believe Bungie have any ideas at all.
I mean, yeah. Sorry, was this supposed to be a counter-point?
When you are throttling XP to encourage people to buy microtransactions, it is different then when you are doing it for some other balance reason. Cause in one fo them you are trying to manipulate people into spending money on your lottery tickets.
Well yeah, when there are Disney execs to call time on the nonsense...
That aside, leaving an exploit like the former online also accrues "damage" way faster, so yes, inconveniences to players take a back seat.
Is there some use for it I'm not seeing?
Nope
Which is why I hope that this affects the sales number of the next DLC in a meaningful way.
There are execs in the Activision board room right now cussing up a storm because if you don't think this won't affect lootbox and DLC sales you are woefully misunderstanding the situation.
1. I was a moron for not using Mida/Last Hope with Stompies sooner. It's like I can see the Matrix now.
2. It's super frustrating knowing that I have now fixed my connection issues (I'm always a green bar in D2 compared to the shenanigans in D1) and yet still have to deal with laggy bastards on the other team
3. Nothing annoys me more than someone teabagging me when they haven't earned it. (i.e. they didn't even get a shot in, but they'll teabag me when their teammates have managed to deal with me)
Explosive knives work okay as a secondary grenade, since you can hit people in cover with the splash damage. The precision knives are hard to use in PvP but PvE they can be chained alright if you have Jesus aim
Also when a teammate steps in front of you as you throw it the knife stays stuck in the back of their head.
Eh. The november statement claimed they already had higher attach rates for the DLC. That might have been presale or not as the statement was vague.
Nah, they're too busy dreaming up new, more evil, ways to part children from their pocket money.
Note that Explosive Knives are on the same tree as "shoot GG 6 times in 3 seconds have fun" so that's why hardly anyone in PVP uses them
XBL: Sans Gravitas, Steam, Destiny, Twitch
Destiny Raid Groups: Team NATBurn, Team Fourth Meal (Disbanded)
... Not like I play my Gunslinger ever though.
IDK. I imagine they're saying make X amount of money or we'll stop funding you because you're no longer profitable. And that's about it.
Then the devs go "okay, how can we get that amount of money to satisfy the execs who are the beck and call of the shareholders? Let's <exploitative thing here>."
Execs: Will this get X amount of money? We gave you Y amount of money to make this and we expect X. You said you would make X and our projections lined up to be X so... where's X.
Devs: Yes
Execs: Do it. /shrugmoji. If it doesn't make X then we have a problem. So you better make X.
Now if only they hadn't buggered the damage some and had either made a perk or exotic that automatically gave it back to you when you threw it and missed, then we'd really have something.
Wasting throwing knives and smoke grenades is Classic Destiny. No way they're going to fix that.
Except they're throttling XP to discourage repetitive farming, the same as they do elsewhere. Might as well go further down the conspiracy hole and declare that all the other opaque throttling they do is a smokescreen to hide their true nefarious intent of tricking people into paying money for loot boxes. I mean to do that you'd have to ignore that an opaque system like that doesn't encourage people to spend money, but why aknowledge that when you can get your rage on?
my favorite is when i am like inches out of melee range when i try to punch something so i end up throwing a smoke grenade at it instead
But yes having an unlimited supply would be hilarious.
that's not entirely clear from the arguments but it is a position i can agree to
though i'm not mad personally
Legislators too, apparently.
I basically have the Daffy Duck "wahoo oohoo" noises playing in my head the whole time.
I just think it's amusing that when the first videos came up about this I said that it felt like the first reddit guy was trying to make it seem like Bungie was operating in bad faith and that the videos were inconclusive and just showed the UI being wonky (the tests that confirmed the throttling were much more thorough)... and lo and behold they were acting in bad faith by hiding the XP throttling.
edit: what was the thing we (here/reddit/etc) were talking about them doing before this happened? I don't think it was two tokens and a blue...?
If that were the case then where was the equivalent shitstorm when people figured out chests were being throttled without any form of UI to indicate what was happening? Including apparently affecting Cayde's weekly chests as well? If what you say is true, that people are just mad about the hiding, then those other instances of the same thing would have had equivalent uproars. But that's not true: people are madder about this because they can heap their feelings about loot boxes onto it as well, even though there's no indication this system was put in place because of loot boxes. I'd argue that the same system would have existed if all you got from levelling was still a mote of light, but people have convinced themselves otherwise.
Hoping the DLC puts the versions in a place where they can start putting out more frequent updates. I'm still thinking they were waiting on the first DLC for major adjustments so they can keep PC and console versions as close as possible, but we'll see.
And why can't people be upset about lootboxes exactly? Especially in this situation where they directly benefit from sbortchanging XP by selling XP boosters?
Like fixing the fucking vault.