On the other hand, this is the first paragraph, available for free:
When Boris Johnson resigned as foreign secretary last month, he accidentally created a small piece of history. His departure means that, for the first time ever, we have a Conservative Cabinet with no Old Etonians in it.
So no, haven't changed my mind on registering, thanks though Telegraph!
I have no idea what an old etonian is but if he's a good example the cabinet is likely better off?
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H3KnucklesBut we decide which is rightand which is an illusion.Registered Userregular
Fuck Eton and all that over-privileged "I want my kids to be able to coast through life no matter how mediocre they are so to hell with social mobility" bullshit wealthy conservatives are so fond of. That's how we end up with tools like Johnson and Trump.
Fuck Eton and all that over-privileged "I want my kids to be able to coast through life no matter how mediocre they are so to hell with social mobility" bullshit wealthy conservatives are so fond of. That's how we end up with tools like Johnson and Trump.
What would we do without Bear Grylls though?
...and of course, as always, Kill Hitler.
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FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
I have no idea what an old etonian is but if he's a good example the cabinet is likely better off?
Eton is the most famous and prestigious of the the public schools in the UK (private schools to the rest of the world). It's also an all boys school.
It's emblematic of an entrenched class system - 19 out of 54 prime ministers were educated and many editors, business leaders, journalists and actors were educated there. The rich receive the best education and establish networks, so that even the most feckless can succeed in life.
Of course ends up being a self-propagating system due to their hold over most of the institutions in Britain (not including the other public schools). 75% of judges went to private schools, half of solicitors and journalists and a third of MPs.
I for one look forward to lower Medical standards.....
How the fuck is this being spun as a positive by the Leavers??!?
Worth pointing out that this isn't actually true, and it isn't clear whether leave.eu have just flat made this up or have misunderstood the Bologna process for qualification portability.
Four year accelerated medical degrees are a thing (albeit are usually graduate entry), and there's no barrier to practicing in the UK with a four year medical degree.
The Bologna process governs automatic recognition of professional qualifications, and specifies a minimum length of five years for medical degrees in its regulations, but that's only relevant if you want to train in the UK and practice elsewhere in the EU without further study or professional examination.
tl;dr: the UK can recognise whatever length of medical degrees it likes, other EU states only have to recognise it if it meets minimum criteria, but this is only relevant for people training in one state and practicing in another
Fuck Eton and all that over-privileged "I want my kids to be able to coast through life no matter how mediocre they are so to hell with social mobility" bullshit wealthy conservatives are so fond of. That's how we end up with tools like Johnson and Trump.
What would we do without Bear Grylls though?
We would probably watch Ray Mears instead and not be overly focused on drinking our own piss.
Not to say that drinking your own piss isn't a genuine survival trait in certain limited environments and situations.
Its just... how relevant is that in relation to Brexit?
Don't answer that!
Kipling217 on
The sky was full of stars, every star an exploding ship. One of ours.
The obvious answer to the article's 'question' is "From people with actual talent hopefully". The current cabinet aren't an example of this unfortunately.
I have no idea what an old etonian is but if he's a good example the cabinet is likely better off?
Eton is the most famous and prestigious of the the public schools in the UK (private schools to the rest of the world). It's also an all boys school.
It's emblematic of an entrenched class system - 19 out of 54 prime ministers were educated and many editors, business leaders, journalists and actors were educated there. The rich receive the best education and establish networks, so that even the most feckless can succeed in life.
Of course ends up being a self-propagating system due to their hold over most of the institutions in Britain (not including the other public schools). 75% of judges went to private schools, half of solicitors and journalists and a third of MPs.
I can't help but notice that nearly all of the example's you have given are careers that don't necessarily require any degree of talent, intelligence or capability for a degree of success. Simply blundering into most of them with enough connections (or money) to carry on will get you entrenched at the top echelons easily enough. Doing a bad job doesn't really matter in half the cases - particularly for MPs and journalism. Those with actual talent will be obviously better, but they'll have to fight through dreck to get there. Ares like, for example, almost any STEM discipline, where capability is an explicit requirement of the job, are not as vulnerable to this (not saying it's entirely clean I might add - just that you will not survive without talent. Who wants an aeronautical engineer who can't really do their job?). The legal profession should be different, but I'm really not so sure anymore.
I'd also extend the general principle to Oxford and Cambridge as well. Both universities received special treatment in application processes, rely heavily on interviews and recommendations from schools like eton and then claim it's fair when about 40%+ of their applicants are from public schools (and higher in some cases). Their reputation and special treatment is unwarranted considering that other universities (e.g. London universities) are in many cases better.
All of this just illustrates how little chance you really have if you aren't born into wealth. You can reach the top, sure, but it's going to be much harder to get there and you'll have to fight through those that ended up there by default.
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H3KnucklesBut we decide which is rightand which is an illusion.Registered Userregular
I think it's kind of alarming how porous the line between journalists and politicians seems to be getting. It seems like a massive conflict of interests for people to be freely transitioning between the two career paths.
It's kind of impressive how much two years of the Brexit process and other conservative politics has de-romanticized the UK in my mind. Not that my view of the place was flawless, but at least three years ago I still had rich fantasies of getting a cute cottage in the English countryside with an herb garden, a little vintage Triumph, and such. Most of my perceived flaws with English society were leftovers from Thatcher that at least might get fixed in my lifetime
Now 95% of my internal dialogue about the UK is screaming about how y'all have several opposition parties that are absolutely asleep at the wheel (though I know you know that, and I know you know that I know you know that) and repeating John Oliver's line about how Theresa May is a Thatcher-in-the-Rye. Not to mention a lack of appropriate response to Grenfell and other failures of the social safety net
Of course I say all this, but then if things do recover from this and the left sorts itself out, I may just go full Britaboo again
I have no idea what an old etonian is but if he's a good example the cabinet is likely better off?
Eton is the most famous and prestigious of the the public schools in the UK (private schools to the rest of the world). It's also an all boys school.
It's emblematic of an entrenched class system - 19 out of 54 prime ministers were educated and many editors, business leaders, journalists and actors were educated there. The rich receive the best education and establish networks, so that even the most feckless can succeed in life.
Of course ends up being a self-propagating system due to their hold over most of the institutions in Britain (not including the other public schools). 75% of judges went to private schools, half of solicitors and journalists and a third of MPs.
look this is all well and good but it is possible to achieve such a divine level of fecklessness you can defeat even etonian privilege. never underestimate the lack of feck of a sufficiently determined... uh..
It's kind of impressive how much two years of the Brexit process and other conservative politics has de-romanticized the UK in my mind. Not that my view of the place was flawless, but at least three years ago I still had rich fantasies of getting a cute cottage in the English countryside with an herb garden, a little vintage Triumph, and such. Most of my perceived flaws with English society were leftovers from Thatcher that at least might get fixed in my lifetime
Now 95% of my internal dialogue about the UK is screaming about how y'all have several opposition parties that are absolutely asleep at the wheel (though I know you know that, and I know you know that I know you know that) and repeating John Oliver's line about how Theresa May is a Thatcher-in-the-Rye. Not to mention a lack of appropriate response to Grenfell and other failures of the social safety net
Of course I say all this, but then if things do recover from this and the left sorts itself out, I may just go full Britaboo again
I still want that vintage Triumph
I mean you probably weren't paying attention: an entrenched upper class that value chuminess over competence and small town myopia severely hindered British competitiveness back in the second industrial revolution of the 19th century. As in so many countries the two world wars were abberations and we're returning to underlying trends (American robber barons and idiots in Westminster).
It's kind of impressive how much two years of the Brexit process and other conservative politics has de-romanticized the UK in my mind. Not that my view of the place was flawless, but at least three years ago I still had rich fantasies of getting a cute cottage in the English countryside with an herb garden, a little vintage Triumph, and such. Most of my perceived flaws with English society were leftovers from Thatcher that at least might get fixed in my lifetime
Now 95% of my internal dialogue about the UK is screaming about how y'all have several opposition parties that are absolutely asleep at the wheel (though I know you know that, and I know you know that I know you know that) and repeating John Oliver's line about how Theresa May is a Thatcher-in-the-Rye. Not to mention a lack of appropriate response to Grenfell and other failures of the social safety net
Of course I say all this, but then if things do recover from this and the left sorts itself out, I may just go full Britaboo again
I still want that vintage Triumph
I mean you probably weren't paying attention: an entrenched upper class that value chuminess over competence and small town myopia severely hindered British competitiveness back in the second industrial revolution of the 19th century. As in so many countries the two world wars were abberations and we're returning to underlying trends (American robber barons and idiots in Westminster).
Oh yeah I am most definitely willing to own up to a degree of myopia around having a very specific idealization of England in particular, which has probably never existed except in odd isolated moments. There's any number of threads to be pulled on to unravel that most comfortable sweater. Heck, right now I live in an former African colony and I know what all Rhodes and his ilk were up to around that era of industrialization
Liam Fox says the chance of a no-deal Brexit is growing, blaming the "intransigence" of the European Commission.
The international trade secretary and Brexiteer put the chance of failing to come to an agreement at "60-40".
He told the Sunday Times that Brussels' chief negotiator had dismissed the UK's Chequers proposals simply because "we have never done it before".
The UK and EU say they want agreement before the exit on 29 March 2019.
Mr Fox told the paper that he had not thought the likelihood of no-deal was higher than 50-50, but the risk had increased.
He said the EU had to decide whether to act in the economic best interests of its people, or to go on pursuing an approach determined by an obsession with the purity of its rules.
"I think the intransigence of the commission is pushing us towards no deal," he said.
He said the EU had to decide whether to act in the economic best interests of its people, or to go on pursuing an approach determined by an obsession with the purity of its rules.
*spit's coffee* Liam, my dude, you have this backwards. The UK needs the EU more than the EU needs the UK.
Liam Fox says the chance of a no-deal Brexit is growing, blaming the "intransigence" of the European Commission.
The international trade secretary and Brexiteer put the chance of failing to come to an agreement at "60-40".
He told the Sunday Times that Brussels' chief negotiator had dismissed the UK's Chequers proposals simply because "we have never done it before".
The UK and EU say they want agreement before the exit on 29 March 2019.
Mr Fox told the paper that he had not thought the likelihood of no-deal was higher than 50-50, but the risk had increased.
He said the EU had to decide whether to act in the economic best interests of its people, or to go on pursuing an approach determined by an obsession with the purity of its rules.
"I think the intransigence of the commission is pushing us towards no deal," he said.
Ah yes, of course it's all the EU's fault.
It's just as the Remoaners said it'd be all along! Wait a minute, by Jove, they're in cahoots!
This is perfectly simple to solve. The EU just needs to agree to become part of the British Empire.
The depressing thing is I think there is a non-zero amount of people who are all about this.
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H3KnucklesBut we decide which is rightand which is an illusion.Registered Userregular
I like the weird double-standard he has going on, the EU must not put matters of policy & principle above their peoples' economic interests, but the UK must do the exact opposite.
I like the weird double-standard he has going on, the EU must not put matters of policy & principle above their peoples' economic interests, but the UK must do the exact opposite.
I don't like it. At all.
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H3KnucklesBut we decide which is rightand which is an illusion.Registered Userregular
edited August 2018
Sorry, I figured the sarcasm would be clear. Fox's perspective is absurd.
Posts
On the one hand: registration wall.
On the other hand, this is the first paragraph, available for free:
So no, haven't changed my mind on registering, thanks though Telegraph!
Eton is basically "yes, I am a rich white dude" school
Sometimes people forget that there was a more or less operational urban society in Mad Max.
Eton is the most famous and prestigious of the the public schools in the UK (private schools to the rest of the world). It's also an all boys school.
It's emblematic of an entrenched class system - 19 out of 54 prime ministers were educated and many editors, business leaders, journalists and actors were educated there. The rich receive the best education and establish networks, so that even the most feckless can succeed in life.
Of course ends up being a self-propagating system due to their hold over most of the institutions in Britain (not including the other public schools). 75% of judges went to private schools, half of solicitors and journalists and a third of MPs.
Yeah. To slightly misquote Deus Ex, it wasn't the end of the world, but you could see it from there.
The sequels, well, by then you were there.
Steam | XBL
Worth pointing out that this isn't actually true, and it isn't clear whether leave.eu have just flat made this up or have misunderstood the Bologna process for qualification portability.
Four year accelerated medical degrees are a thing (albeit are usually graduate entry), and there's no barrier to practicing in the UK with a four year medical degree.
The Bologna process governs automatic recognition of professional qualifications, and specifies a minimum length of five years for medical degrees in its regulations, but that's only relevant if you want to train in the UK and practice elsewhere in the EU without further study or professional examination.
tl;dr: the UK can recognise whatever length of medical degrees it likes, other EU states only have to recognise it if it meets minimum criteria, but this is only relevant for people training in one state and practicing in another
Because you haven't read V for Vendetta
We would probably watch Ray Mears instead and not be overly focused on drinking our own piss.
Not to say that drinking your own piss isn't a genuine survival trait in certain limited environments and situations.
Its just... how relevant is that in relation to Brexit?
Don't answer that!
I can't help but notice that nearly all of the example's you have given are careers that don't necessarily require any degree of talent, intelligence or capability for a degree of success. Simply blundering into most of them with enough connections (or money) to carry on will get you entrenched at the top echelons easily enough. Doing a bad job doesn't really matter in half the cases - particularly for MPs and journalism. Those with actual talent will be obviously better, but they'll have to fight through dreck to get there. Ares like, for example, almost any STEM discipline, where capability is an explicit requirement of the job, are not as vulnerable to this (not saying it's entirely clean I might add - just that you will not survive without talent. Who wants an aeronautical engineer who can't really do their job?). The legal profession should be different, but I'm really not so sure anymore.
I'd also extend the general principle to Oxford and Cambridge as well. Both universities received special treatment in application processes, rely heavily on interviews and recommendations from schools like eton and then claim it's fair when about 40%+ of their applicants are from public schools (and higher in some cases). Their reputation and special treatment is unwarranted considering that other universities (e.g. London universities) are in many cases better.
All of this just illustrates how little chance you really have if you aren't born into wealth. You can reach the top, sure, but it's going to be much harder to get there and you'll have to fight through those that ended up there by default.
Now 95% of my internal dialogue about the UK is screaming about how y'all have several opposition parties that are absolutely asleep at the wheel (though I know you know that, and I know you know that I know you know that) and repeating John Oliver's line about how Theresa May is a Thatcher-in-the-Rye. Not to mention a lack of appropriate response to Grenfell and other failures of the social safety net
Of course I say all this, but then if things do recover from this and the left sorts itself out, I may just go full Britaboo again
!!!
Does "what a dumb asshole" count as complex?
Dumbness comes in many flavours
Happy thoughts, Greg, happy thoughts
mm yes, three cylinders of English steel, much better
This is 100% my mid-life crisis plan.
A buddy of mine in the states got his hands on an old Norton racer recently and is currently restoring it. I am rather jealous
look this is all well and good but it is possible to achieve such a divine level of fecklessness you can defeat even etonian privilege. never underestimate the lack of feck of a sufficiently determined... uh..
I mean you probably weren't paying attention: an entrenched upper class that value chuminess over competence and small town myopia severely hindered British competitiveness back in the second industrial revolution of the 19th century. As in so many countries the two world wars were abberations and we're returning to underlying trends (American robber barons and idiots in Westminster).
I remember wanting to go see the Blackadder film
D3 Steam #TeamTangent STO
Thankfully the Blackadder film later was viewable elsewhere, but initially they'd said it would only ever be shown at the Dome, IIRC.
Steam | XBL
The whole manufactured scarcity thing was dumb in hindsight
I'm sure it'll all work out this time.
Oh yeah I am most definitely willing to own up to a degree of myopia around having a very specific idealization of England in particular, which has probably never existed except in odd isolated moments. There's any number of threads to be pulled on to unravel that most comfortable sweater. Heck, right now I live in an former African colony and I know what all Rhodes and his ilk were up to around that era of industrialization
Damn Project Fear Remoaners, trying to sabotage- wait, who? Ah yes, of course it's all the EU's fault.
*spit's coffee* Liam, my dude, you have this backwards. The UK needs the EU more than the EU needs the UK.
It's just as the Remoaners said it'd be all along! Wait a minute, by Jove, they're in cahoots!
The depressing thing is I think there is a non-zero amount of people who are all about this.
I don't like it. At all.