I'm still frustrated that my parents' 4000 sq ft 2008-built house they moved into 3 years ago was still wired for phones but didn't have a shred of Ethernet. So there's plates in every room for coax and RJ-45. It would've been super easy to put in some Cat5e when the place was built.
OTOH, their Orbi system hooked up to the 75Mb cable connection is more than fine for anything they use. It's not like Dad is going upstairs to do anything on that desktop :P
did some extra reading trying to find The Straight Dope on 5g wireless
i'm less excited now
in a nutshell: pure uncut 5G only works up to 1000 feet. That's... not a lot of feet. The carriers are compensating for this with 4G carrier waves somehow to buy extra range, but fundamentally, "real" 5G availability will be very limited, and its only in those circumstances that the miracle speeds/latency will actually work
also, 5G functions on a wavelength that is extremely susceptible to physical interference including and I quote "leaves on trees" being a measurable source of service degradation
so I am guessing that they'll eventually get this into homes by doing some sort of a satellite/antenna package, as if it were satellite. so you'll roof mount it where there's the least interference to get the clean signal
Yup this is that limitation of radio I was talking about over in the house thread. To get more speed you have a tradeoff in both distance and "punching power". Low frequency radio waves can penetrate a lot of things but will have extremely low bandwidth capabilities, but high bandwidth solutions will get blocked by essentially tossing confetti in the way of it.
You can sort of get around this with multiplexing and using differing modulations on your carrier (think like modems). But you eventually will run into physical limitations with radio and microwave.
Mesh networks, I think, are the future solution to this... but I have no idea on the practicality of that outside of consumer homes, and even then mesh will have issues getting much further above 1-5gbit speeds.
The 5G specs have multiple operating modes. The one you guys are talking about is the mmWave (25+GHz carrier frequency) version, which is designed for highly dense urban areas (think Manhattan) where you can stick a micro-cell antenna with fiber backhaul every block. This lets you get a bunch of people off your big expensive towers (and expensive low-freq [sub-GHz] spectrum) while also giving them more speed and better coverage.
The more relevant operating mode for most people will be the general enhancements to the low-freq spectrum. More encoding modes for more bandwidth, better MIMO support, better efficiency at the edges, etc. This is what Verizon is rolling out as their home-based 5G product - with a stationary antenna and mega-MIMO, real-world downlink speeds of several-hundred Mb should be possible even without mmWave. They're going to market it as "gigabit" and a fiber alternative, which lol (insert speedtest.net screenshot of 970/970 ATT Fiber here), but it should provide a real competitor for cable in a lot of markets.
Which is fine! But radio and the demodulation tech that you can put in a home with mesh is probably going to hit a brick wall and barely keep pace with wired ethernet in home. Once 5 and 10 gbps are in consumer tech, wifi tech will probably be hitting that 700-1000 mbps speed. They kind of have that 500 meg stuff working. But it requires a lot of pieces to go right. You hardly ever get it in real world situations.
Right the whole point was you're not getting that shit in your home.
And my point is that you're probably wrong? Dealing with a base station that isn't moving and doesn't have the power/space constraints of a cell phone is much easier. They can stick 32 antennas in the thing and do all kinds of MIMO and Carrier Aggregation stuff to boost speeds in a useful way.
Right... and my claim was it'd never beat wired.
Which is going to be true until physics gets rewritten, very likely. Unless you're going to cheat and go "yeah well the wired ISP is doing shitty tactic #1 so wireless beats that in this situation" which can be true.
Wireless isn't replacing wired, wired is here to stay. Wireless replacing wired in homes is a "fusion is 10 years away" style claim. Many people probably prefer wireless because of the cost and effort in comparison to wired, but wired will always beat it and the tech heavy people will lean on it hard.
Wireless has already almost completely replaced wired for home LANs. Only nerds like us still insist on wired ethernet, and even then the equipment to go beyond gigabit is either impossible to find (the new 2.5/5 stuff) or eye-wateringly expensive (10G anything). I bet we see affordable high-end 802.11ax equipment before we see any meaningful penetration of 5G/10G wired gear in the home.
If Verizon/ATT/whomever rolls in and says "here's a box that gets you ~300Mb for $50/mo and we'll raise the data cap on your phone plan if you sign up today!" and your only other option is 40Mb cable for $75/mo, you don't really care if it is wired or not. My concern for gaming would be latency, but if they're doing this the way I think they must be, it may not be too bad.
FTTH deployments are already slowing way down (Verizon and Google already stopped, ATT isn't expanding as fast). DOCSIS 3.1 is somewhat competitive, but has a small footprint at the moment.
Wireless functions fine for tablets and mobile devices but is absolute butt for anything like streaming high quality video beyond dvd quality or actual latency free gaming. Then you've got interferrance problems that arise from oversaturation from neighbors and other devices chilling out in your signal ranges (hello microwaves). They're good, they have their use, but they will not replace wired in high tech homes. If you're serious about getting cameras and all this high tech shit you'd be better off running cable.
Why not just run furnaces off radio signals? It Just Works(tm). Security is going to be a huger deal once locks and appliances are IoTed. Last thing you want is someone exploiting your WPA3 signal and making your fridge burn out its motor and unlock your door.
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
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BroloBroseidonLord of the BroceanRegistered Userregular
did some extra reading trying to find The Straight Dope on 5g wireless
i'm less excited now
in a nutshell: pure uncut 5G only works up to 1000 feet. That's... not a lot of feet. The carriers are compensating for this with 4G carrier waves somehow to buy extra range, but fundamentally, "real" 5G availability will be very limited, and its only in those circumstances that the miracle speeds/latency will actually work
also, 5G functions on a wavelength that is extremely susceptible to physical interference including and I quote "leaves on trees" being a measurable source of service degradation
so I am guessing that they'll eventually get this into homes by doing some sort of a satellite/antenna package, as if it were satellite. so you'll roof mount it where there's the least interference to get the clean signal
Yup this is that limitation of radio I was talking about over in the house thread. To get more speed you have a tradeoff in both distance and "punching power". Low frequency radio waves can penetrate a lot of things but will have extremely low bandwidth capabilities, but high bandwidth solutions will get blocked by essentially tossing confetti in the way of it.
You can sort of get around this with multiplexing and using differing modulations on your carrier (think like modems). But you eventually will run into physical limitations with radio and microwave.
Mesh networks, I think, are the future solution to this... but I have no idea on the practicality of that outside of consumer homes, and even then mesh will have issues getting much further above 1-5gbit speeds.
The 5G specs have multiple operating modes. The one you guys are talking about is the mmWave (25+GHz carrier frequency) version, which is designed for highly dense urban areas (think Manhattan) where you can stick a micro-cell antenna with fiber backhaul every block. This lets you get a bunch of people off your big expensive towers (and expensive low-freq [sub-GHz] spectrum) while also giving them more speed and better coverage.
The more relevant operating mode for most people will be the general enhancements to the low-freq spectrum. More encoding modes for more bandwidth, better MIMO support, better efficiency at the edges, etc. This is what Verizon is rolling out as their home-based 5G product - with a stationary antenna and mega-MIMO, real-world downlink speeds of several-hundred Mb should be possible even without mmWave. They're going to market it as "gigabit" and a fiber alternative, which lol (insert speedtest.net screenshot of 970/970 ATT Fiber here), but it should provide a real competitor for cable in a lot of markets.
Which is fine! But radio and the demodulation tech that you can put in a home with mesh is probably going to hit a brick wall and barely keep pace with wired ethernet in home. Once 5 and 10 gbps are in consumer tech, wifi tech will probably be hitting that 700-1000 mbps speed. They kind of have that 500 meg stuff working. But it requires a lot of pieces to go right. You hardly ever get it in real world situations.
Right the whole point was you're not getting that shit in your home.
And my point is that you're probably wrong? Dealing with a base station that isn't moving and doesn't have the power/space constraints of a cell phone is much easier. They can stick 32 antennas in the thing and do all kinds of MIMO and Carrier Aggregation stuff to boost speeds in a useful way.
Right... and my claim was it'd never beat wired.
Which is going to be true until physics gets rewritten, very likely. Unless you're going to cheat and go "yeah well the wired ISP is doing shitty tactic #1 so wireless beats that in this situation" which can be true.
Wireless isn't replacing wired, wired is here to stay. Wireless replacing wired in homes is a "fusion is 10 years away" style claim. Many people probably prefer wireless because of the cost and effort in comparison to wired, but wired will always beat it and the tech heavy people will lean on it hard.
Wireless has already almost completely replaced wired for home LANs. Only nerds like us still insist on wired ethernet, and even then the equipment to go beyond gigabit is either impossible to find (the new 2.5/5 stuff) or eye-wateringly expensive (10G anything). I bet we see affordable high-end 802.11ax equipment before we see any meaningful penetration of 5G/10G wired gear in the home.
If Verizon/ATT/whomever rolls in and says "here's a box that gets you ~300Mb for $50/mo and we'll raise the data cap on your phone plan if you sign up today!" and your only other option is 40Mb cable for $75/mo, you don't really care if it is wired or not. My concern for gaming would be latency, but if they're doing this the way I think they must be, it may not be too bad.
FTTH deployments are already slowing way down (Verizon and Google already stopped, ATT isn't expanding as fast). DOCSIS 3.1 is somewhat competitive, but has a small footprint at the moment.
Wireless functions fine for tablets and mobile devices but is absolute butt for anything like streaming high quality video beyond dvd quality or actual latency free gaming. Then you've got interferrance problems that arise from oversaturation from neighbors and other devices chilling out in your signal ranges (hello microwaves). They're good, they have their use, but they will not replace wired in high tech homes. If you're serious about getting cameras and all this high tech shit you'd be better off running cable.
Why not just run furnaces off radio signals? It Just Works(tm). Security is going to be a huger deal once locks and appliances are IoTed. Last thing you want is someone exploiting your WPA3 signal and making your fridge burn out its motor and unlock your door.
Wired isn't going to be a thing for IoT. No one is going to drop Cat6 to install a new doorbell or thermostat if they haven't been doing it for their computer, and I doubt we're about to see a dramatic increase in the uptake of wired security cameras.
Tons of people are streaming ~16Mb "4K" content on Netflix to their TVs over 802.11ac today and I don't see an epidemic of complaints about it, though this might be due to a graceful stepdown to the ~8Mb 1080p stream if the connection sucks and most people can't tell the difference. Tons and tons of PS4s and XBOs never touch an ethernet cable. 802.11ac has already reached the "good enough" point for a huuuuuuge portion of the population.
And 802.11ax has a lot of changes to work better in congested environments. Once it is common (like 2022 or whatever), a lot of this ceases to be a concern outside of the edgiest edge cases.
I'm still frustrated that my parents' 4000 sq ft 2008-built house they moved into 3 years ago was still wired for phones but didn't have a shred of Ethernet. So there's plates in every room for coax and RJ-45. It would've been super easy to put in some Cat5e when the place was built.
The worst part? rj11 will fit into rj45 and you can use cat5e in place of phone cord. It just needs to be handled a bit differently at the demarc and you can't just daisychain the fuckers... which most people do.
I know right? One of the first things I did is go to the basement and check the actual wires. Nope, just four conductors, wired into a phone-style board.
I'm still frustrated that my parents' 4000 sq ft 2008-built house they moved into 3 years ago was still wired for phones but didn't have a shred of Ethernet. So there's plates in every room for coax and RJ-45. It would've been super easy to put in some Cat5e when the place was built.
OTOH, their Orbi system hooked up to the 75Mb cable connection is more than fine for anything they use. It's not like Dad is going upstairs to do anything on that desktop :P
Well, yeah, but it's the principle of the thing. (Though the Orbi does work pretty well.)
Also even here in Silicon Valley I may be the only person I know that is actually using Ethernet for things in the home. My apartment was wired for Ethernet, so I have the cable modem and router set up there. I then have switches at the entertainment center for the Xbone and stuff, and another one at my desk for my desktop, other PCs, and printer.
Honestly, the person who invented powerlines deserves a medal. Admittedly it's not one continuous cable, but I've lived in some big houses and without powerline connections I would not have been able to play online.
Honestly, the person who invented powerlines deserves a medal. Admittedly it's not one continuous cable, but I've lived in some big houses and without powerline connections I would not have been able to play online.
Yeah wireless has never been an option. Too much interference in general. The more devices using your AP, the slower it becomes overall for everyone using it on top of general congestion in the neighborhood. Like I said elsewhere I'm the corner apartment and I see, easily, 50+ APs at any given time.
4 people using phones/tablets/smart-tvs means my PC gets a 100 ms ping and bandwidth that's fucking garbage. Powerline solved it for me since it was impractical to tear up this apartment to run cabling.
bowen on
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
This conversation makes me thankful that my wireless has worked as well as it has. I tried powerline and I don't know if it was the adapters or the wiring, but ugh. 1/10th the speed when I was trying to eek out the last 1/10 pretty much so luckily it wasn't required. Just be prepared for less than optimal results if you try them.
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KwoaruConfident SmirkFlawless Golden PecsRegistered Userregular
Got an email yesterday from Newegg saying they got infected with something and they aren't sure yet exactly what information may or may not have been "exposed" but they'll have an FAQ up about it on friday apparently
The important part though is that it reminded me that I keep meaning to look into upgrading my motherboard and/or processor because they're pretty old and my mobo doesn't even have enough power ports for all the fans in my new case
It seems like if you actually input your credit/debit card information on the checkout page you're affected for sure. There's still some questions outstanding, based on the nature of the attack, about whether people that used stored card information, PayPal, or other payment processing services were affected.
I've ordered from Newegg in the timeframe but always used PayPal, so I'm hoping I'm in the clear.
I had a card fraudulently charged through a different retailer during the same time frame. Still best to call my bank and cancel the card I used at Newegg regardless. It's getting to the point where I'm going to be using Paypal whenever it's an option for online stores that aren't Amazon, ones I've never ordered for before, or ones that have been problematic in the past.
minor incidentexpert in a dying fieldnjRegistered Userregular
My company orders from Newegg a LOT.
And because we're a little disorganized with our company cards (it really should only be the purchaser who orders, but a bunch of us occasionally have last second things we need to buy), we just had to have 7 cards cancelled and reissued. The number of recurring payments that fucks up stunningly obnoxious.
Ah, it stinks, it sucks, it's anthropologically unjust
I am staying with my parents for a while, probably a few weeks
I brought my PlayStation and my laptop and my phone, of course
I have no idea what the WiFi password is, and neither do they
A few months ago, I brought my phone over, they had the password written down on a note card, I logged in on my phone, and have all the WiFi on this little screen I can handle
Said note card is missing
I would very much like to get on the WiFi with the PS4 and laptop
Is there any way to see what the password is, maybe on my phone, a Droid, or their windows laptop?
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SnicketysnickThe Greatest Hype Man inWesterosRegistered Userregular
edited September 2018
Have you looked on the back of the router? Some companies put it one there as well as a little card that's a bit more handy. (This assumes it's not been changed to PetNameBirthday420 or similar parental moves.)
On a device currently connected to the wifi, try navigating to 192.168.0.1 or 192.168.1.1. One of those is most likely the router's IP address. If they don't know what the router login info is, try username "admin", password "password", or possibly "admin". Some newer routers will have the default login information printed on a sticker on the router itself. Once you are logged into the router, you should be able to find the wifi password easily.
First thing, is it actually on the back of the router? If they never changed it, it may be.
If it isn't, you can probably reset the router to factory settings by doing a hard reset. Usually by holding the reset button until you hear a "click" (10 seconds or so). Then the password on the back should be the password.
You can also look up the router details. It probably has a real cool standard password. Like admin/admin or admin/1234. If you enter the router settings you can change the WiFi password.
Steam: SanderJK Origin: SanderJK
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mightyjongyoSour CrrmEast Bay, CaliforniaRegistered Userregular
I think sometimes if you go to the network settings for the wifi as if you were going to change the password, you can click on 'show password' to get the existing password to show up on currently connected devices. I don't think it works on android anymore though, I think it just shows (unchanged) in greyed out text. But it might still work on their laptop?
Satellite is what's gonna make PSN very unhappy. The download speed isn't abhorrent (Though downloading AAA games becomes an overnight affair), but the latency is so bad any server will deny you.
MrMonroepassed outon the floor nowRegistered Userregular
I might be hunting a unicorn but I figure I'll ask just in case:
I'm looking for a headset with the following features:
Bluetooth (I want to use it with my desktop, S8, and work laptop and no cord is the right length for all three)
Comes with a USB bluetooth dongle (my desktop doesn't have a bluetooth card)
Has a microphone that could be described as "not awful"
Has "3D" sound (I don't really understand why headset makers call it this rather than just saying "5.1" or "7.1", but I'd like to be able to hear where shots are coming from in PUBG)
Are circumaural (a word Google thinks should transalate to "Emoji", which is not relevant but is slightly interesting)
I did locate the password, but their network is too slow to use PSN.
I think
I cannot sign in
PlayStation network set up is saying Nat type 2
Connection speed download 17.1Mbps
Connection speed upload 227.7kbps
They live in very rural area and have satellite internet
If you haven't yet also check to see what the bandwidth cap is. They are usually very low. I pay out the nose for 150GB and most of the other plans on my satellite provider are under 50GB.
At least your connection is fast enough for decent Netflix if you have a big enough cap.
I might be hunting a unicorn but I figure I'll ask just in case:
I'm looking for a headset with the following features:
Bluetooth (I want to use it with my desktop, S8, and work laptop and no cord is the right length for all three)
Comes with a USB bluetooth dongle (my desktop doesn't have a bluetooth card)
Has a microphone that could be described as "not awful"
Has "3D" sound (I don't really understand why headset makers call it this rather than just saying "5.1" or "7.1", but I'd like to be able to hear where shots are coming from in PUBG)
Are circumaural (a word Google thinks should transalate to "Emoji", which is not relevant but is slightly interesting)
USB dongles are like 10-20 bucks. SteelSeries look to have a bunch of good options.
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MrMonroepassed outon the floor nowRegistered Userregular
Huh I was under the impression that you can generally not get a generic bluetooth receiver dongle as many devices that come with one bundled have them locked to the device via it's secret to make sure you have to replace the entire unit if the dongle breaks, but I guess that makes a lot of sense.
Huh I was under the impression that you can generally not get a generic bluetooth receiver dongle as many devices that come with one bundled have them locked to the device via it's secret to make sure you have to replace the entire unit if the dongle breaks, but I guess that makes a lot of sense.
Bluetooth is bluetooth. Any bluetooth device will work with any bluetooth receiver.
RF requires a specific dongle, but you don't generally see that with headphones, only wireless mice/keyboards, and they always come with the dongle.
Ah, it stinks, it sucks, it's anthropologically unjust
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Lord_AsmodeusgoeticSobriquet:Here is your magical cryptic riddle-tumour: I AM A TIME MACHINERegistered Userregular
Hey I've got an android question I can't seem to find the answer to online, if I want my lock screen wallpaper on at all times even when playing an audible book or youtube video in the background, is there a way to turn off their thumbnail/covers overriding my lock screen?
Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if Labor had not first existed. Labor is superior to capital, and deserves much the higher consideration. - Lincoln
Hey I've got an android question I can't seem to find the answer to online, if I want my lock screen wallpaper on at all times even when playing an audible book or youtube video in the background, is there a way to turn off their thumbnail/covers overriding my lock screen?
Yes, you should be able to do that but it may be app dependant. Pockets Casts lets me disable is under its appearance settings, so most other apps it'll be in there or maybe in with notification settings.
Posts
OTOH, their Orbi system hooked up to the 75Mb cable connection is more than fine for anything they use. It's not like Dad is going upstairs to do anything on that desktop :P
Wireless functions fine for tablets and mobile devices but is absolute butt for anything like streaming high quality video beyond dvd quality or actual latency free gaming. Then you've got interferrance problems that arise from oversaturation from neighbors and other devices chilling out in your signal ranges (hello microwaves). They're good, they have their use, but they will not replace wired in high tech homes. If you're serious about getting cameras and all this high tech shit you'd be better off running cable.
Why not just run furnaces off radio signals? It Just Works(tm). Security is going to be a huger deal once locks and appliances are IoTed. Last thing you want is someone exploiting your WPA3 signal and making your fridge burn out its motor and unlock your door.
Wired isn't going to be a thing for IoT. No one is going to drop Cat6 to install a new doorbell or thermostat if they haven't been doing it for their computer, and I doubt we're about to see a dramatic increase in the uptake of wired security cameras.
Tons of people are streaming ~16Mb "4K" content on Netflix to their TVs over 802.11ac today and I don't see an epidemic of complaints about it, though this might be due to a graceful stepdown to the ~8Mb 1080p stream if the connection sucks and most people can't tell the difference. Tons and tons of PS4s and XBOs never touch an ethernet cable. 802.11ac has already reached the "good enough" point for a huuuuuuge portion of the population.
And 802.11ax has a lot of changes to work better in congested environments. Once it is common (like 2022 or whatever), a lot of this ceases to be a concern outside of the edgiest edge cases.
I know right? One of the first things I did is go to the basement and check the actual wires. Nope, just four conductors, wired into a phone-style board.
Well, yeah, but it's the principle of the thing. (Though the Orbi does work pretty well.)
Full duplex will always beat half.
Honestly, the person who invented powerlines deserves a medal. Admittedly it's not one continuous cable, but I've lived in some big houses and without powerline connections I would not have been able to play online.
Yeah wireless has never been an option. Too much interference in general. The more devices using your AP, the slower it becomes overall for everyone using it on top of general congestion in the neighborhood. Like I said elsewhere I'm the corner apartment and I see, easily, 50+ APs at any given time.
4 people using phones/tablets/smart-tvs means my PC gets a 100 ms ping and bandwidth that's fucking garbage. Powerline solved it for me since it was impractical to tear up this apartment to run cabling.
The important part though is that it reminded me that I keep meaning to look into upgrading my motherboard and/or processor because they're pretty old and my mobo doesn't even have enough power ports for all the fans in my new case
I did all my ordering in June so I'm okay?
I've ordered from Newegg in the timeframe but always used PayPal, so I'm hoping I'm in the clear.
It's probably a safe bet (but I'm not newegg so I can't say for certain).
If it were me I'd probably request a new card from my bank.
I have cancelled my credit card.
http://steamcommunity.com/id/pablocampy
Origin ID: Discgolfer27
Untappd ID: Discgolfer1981
And because we're a little disorganized with our company cards (it really should only be the purchaser who orders, but a bunch of us occasionally have last second things we need to buy), we just had to have 7 cards cancelled and reissued. The number of recurring payments that fucks up stunningly obnoxious.
I am staying with my parents for a while, probably a few weeks
I brought my PlayStation and my laptop and my phone, of course
I have no idea what the WiFi password is, and neither do they
A few months ago, I brought my phone over, they had the password written down on a note card, I logged in on my phone, and have all the WiFi on this little screen I can handle
Said note card is missing
I would very much like to get on the WiFi with the PS4 and laptop
Is there any way to see what the password is, maybe on my phone, a Droid, or their windows laptop?
D3 Steam #TeamTangent STO
if they've lost the password they'll need to do that eventually anyway so might as well handle it now
If it isn't, you can probably reset the router to factory settings by doing a hard reset. Usually by holding the reset button until you hear a "click" (10 seconds or so). Then the password on the back should be the password.
You can also look up the router details. It probably has a real cool standard password. Like admin/admin or admin/1234. If you enter the router settings you can change the WiFi password.
I think
I cannot sign in
PlayStation network set up is saying Nat type 2
Connection speed download 17.1Mbps
Connection speed upload 227.7kbps
They live in very rural area and have satellite internet
i like that
I'm looking for a headset with the following features:
If you haven't yet also check to see what the bandwidth cap is. They are usually very low. I pay out the nose for 150GB and most of the other plans on my satellite provider are under 50GB.
At least your connection is fast enough for decent Netflix if you have a big enough cap.
Origin ID: Discgolfer27
Untappd ID: Discgolfer1981
USB dongles are like 10-20 bucks. SteelSeries look to have a bunch of good options.
But if it is Bluetooth then it is just Bluetooth.
Satans..... hints.....
Bluetooth is bluetooth. Any bluetooth device will work with any bluetooth receiver.
RF requires a specific dongle, but you don't generally see that with headphones, only wireless mice/keyboards, and they always come with the dongle.
Yes, you should be able to do that but it may be app dependant. Pockets Casts lets me disable is under its appearance settings, so most other apps it'll be in there or maybe in with notification settings.