So uhhh what do y'all think about the whole Manitoba fracas?
I think it's not that big a deal. Theme is usually pasted on to make the mechanics easier to explain. The designer could have called it manitobe and have given the people in the pictures pointy ears and it wouldn't have made a difference.
Boy are you in the wrong on this. Way to lazily dismiss the commercialization and cultural appropriation of an already often marginalized set of peoples and cultures.
If the designers wanted to make a game about fantastical native cultures, they should have done that. It would still be offensive, but still less so than putting nearly every native american / first nations stereotype they can fit onto and into a box together. It just makes them all out to be royal asshats for trampling all over a culture they apparently wanted to explore (or maybe exploit <_< ), but couldn't be assed to do any research towards. This is built into a number of the game's core mechanics, having players literally advance a totem path and work on crafting wampum belts. Like, for fuck's sake, they even get their geographical description of the province wrong.
None of this is helped by the designers' participation in the conversation to not acknowledge any of this as problematic behaviour, and basically double down on their "works of fiction create new reality" horseshit.
Don't buy this game. Don't support the designers or publisher for this product. It's 2018; it is on them to do better.
I've been wondering about Formula D for a while now. A strange part of my brain is just leery of older games though. Is there a more modern similar game?
So uhhh what do y'all think about the whole Manitoba fracas?
I think it's not that big a deal. Theme is usually pasted on to make the mechanics easier to explain. The designer could have called it manitobe and have given the people in the pictures pointy ears and it wouldn't have made a difference.
This is... a really bad comment. For several reasons. The first being that you clearly have no idea why white people using an aboriginal culture for profit after other white people have spent about 150 years deliberately trying to destroy it is problematic. The second being that even your example of a "fix" is disgustingly racist.
There's a couple of really easy rules for anyone who wants to make money by selling another person's culture for profit:
1) Don't.
2) If, for some reason, you think that you have a really, really great idea, and can only execute it by incorporating someone else's cultural history, talk to some people from that culture and get their input to make sure that what you are creating has some semblance of a connection to reality and isn't horrifically offensive.
The designers of this game failed utterly at both points. When confronted about this, they have acknowledged that they made factual errors while implying that it was really hard to avoid (note: a single google search for "totem pole" will tell you within 2 minutes that they were never created by any of the Prairie nations, as just one extremely simple example) and then blamed their publisher for everything. They don't seem to be learning much from this fiasco either.
Play Smash Bros 3DS with me! 4399-1034-5444
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Mojo_JojoWe are only now beginning to understand the full power and ramifications of sexual intercourseRegistered Userregular
Oh man, I hadn't seen that Formula D supports up to 10 players, that's a pretty big plus point for me.
Just make sure if you play with a lot of players that people understand it is supposed to move FAST. I have had people try to play that game where when it gets to their turn they look at the board and start counting spaces, and start analyzing the number distribution on each die, and it just bogs down into nonsense. You might take about 30-40 turns per lap, so each turn should move quickly. I'm actually thinking about getting rid of my copy even though I like the game, just because my friends tend to take too long.
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CaptainPeacockBoard Game HoarderTop o' the LakeRegistered Userregular
Just saw that earlier this year the old German game Waldschattenspiel has been redone in the US as Shadows in the Forest. The candle had been replaced by an LED lamp and the dwarves replaced by "Shadowlings". Now I'll finally be able to get it at a reasonable price!
Cluck cluck, gibber gibber, my old man's a mushroom, etc.
Oh man, I hadn't seen that Formula D supports up to 10 players, that's a pretty big plus point for me.
Just make sure if you play with a lot of players that people understand it is supposed to move FAST. I have had people try to play that game where when it gets to their turn they look at the board and start counting spaces, and start analyzing the number distribution on each die, and it just bogs down into nonsense. You might take about 30-40 turns per lap, so each turn should move quickly. I'm actually thinking about getting rid of my copy even though I like the game, just because my friends tend to take too long.
I'm not familiar with the game at all but could you add some kind of timer mechanism to force people to make quicker decisions?
It's interesting to see the difference in handling a somewhat similar situation between Manitoba and Teotihuacan. Teotihuacan had some historically off base marketing early on, but they essentially fixed the issues and continued forward. The Manitoba guys essentially shrugged and said deal with it.
Oh man, I hadn't seen that Formula D supports up to 10 players, that's a pretty big plus point for me.
Just make sure if you play with a lot of players that people understand it is supposed to move FAST. I have had people try to play that game where when it gets to their turn they look at the board and start counting spaces, and start analyzing the number distribution on each die, and it just bogs down into nonsense. You might take about 30-40 turns per lap, so each turn should move quickly. I'm actually thinking about getting rid of my copy even though I like the game, just because my friends tend to take too long.
I'm not familiar with the game at all but could you add some kind of timer mechanism to force people to make quicker decisions?
You definitely could, as long as you think it would fly with your group. I don't think it would fly with mine. Part of the issue is that my friends are often very chatty and spend their downtime in conversation and not really watching the board, especially for lighter games like this one.
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KetarCome on upstairswe're having a partyRegistered Userregular
Just saw that earlier this year the old German game Waldschattenspiel has been redone in the US as Shadows in the Forest. The candle had been replaced by an LED lamp and the dwarves replaced by "Shadowlings". Now I'll finally be able to get it at a reasonable price!
You can get it for $25 or less. I just picked up a copy that I'm hoping to play with my kids this weekend.
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CaptainPeacockBoard Game HoarderTop o' the LakeRegistered Userregular
I'm going to replace the LED with a tealight candle.
Cluck cluck, gibber gibber, my old man's a mushroom, etc.
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KetarCome on upstairswe're having a partyRegistered Userregular
I actually also bought a copy (of Shadows in the Forest) that we gave as a present at a birthday party my son attended last weekend. A popular local, independent toy shop was promoting it pretty heavily in a marketing email they sent out and I've been trying to do more board games as gifts for kids' parties lately. It was nice to see it being pushed by a shop that normally only carries a small, but quality selection of board games.
SU&SDs Flamme Rouge Twitch play (watched after the fact on YouTube because I am an old and don’t get the appeal of streams) has probably sold me on a copy if I can find one.
So uhhh what do y'all think about the whole Manitoba fracas?
I think it's not that big a deal. Theme is usually pasted on to make the mechanics easier to explain. The designer could have called it manitobe and have given the people in the pictures pointy ears and it wouldn't have made a difference.
This is... a really bad comment. For several reasons. The first being that you clearly have no idea why white people using an aboriginal culture for profit after other white people have spent about 150 years deliberately trying to destroy it is problematic. The second being that even your example of a "fix" is disgustingly racist.
There's a couple of really easy rules for anyone who wants to make money by selling another person's culture for profit:
1) Don't.
2) If, for some reason, you think that you have a really, really great idea, and can only execute it by incorporating someone else's cultural history, talk to some people from that culture and get their input to make sure that what you are creating has some semblance of a connection to reality and isn't horrifically offensive.
The designers of this game failed utterly at both points. When confronted about this, they have acknowledged that they made factual errors while implying that it was really hard to avoid (note: a single google search for "totem pole" will tell you within 2 minutes that they were never created by any of the Prairie nations, as just one extremely simple example) and then blamed their publisher for everything. They don't seem to be learning much from this fiasco either.
Maybe I should have lead with. I think he should change it also. Sorry about that.
Changing it isn't a big deal because usually the theme is pasted on to fit the mechanics.
He could have -erase my silly goose remark, pointy ears being a reference to elves- changed it to a fantasy theme and it wouldn't have made a difference.
SU&SDs Flamme Rouge Twitch play (watched after the fact on YouTube because I am an old and don’t get the appeal of streams) has probably sold me on a copy if I can find one.
Is it hard to find right now? My local shop must have 6 copies on the shelf.
SU&SDs Flamme Rouge Twitch play (watched after the fact on YouTube because I am an old and don’t get the appeal of streams) has probably sold me on a copy if I can find one.
Is it hard to find right now? My local shop must have 6 copies on the shelf.
I mainly meant if I get around to ordering it. Which I just did! Paying a silly premium for next day shipping because I think it’ll go down well with the in-laws this weekend and I am a terrible creature of impulse.
So uhhh what do y'all think about the whole Manitoba fracas?
I think it's not that big a deal. Theme is usually pasted on to make the mechanics easier to explain. The designer could have called it manitobe and have given the people in the pictures pointy ears and it wouldn't have made a difference.
This is... a really bad comment. For several reasons. The first being that you clearly have no idea why white people using an aboriginal culture for profit after other white people have spent about 150 years deliberately trying to destroy it is problematic. The second being that even your example of a "fix" is disgustingly racist.
There's a couple of really easy rules for anyone who wants to make money by selling another person's culture for profit:
1) Don't.
2) If, for some reason, you think that you have a really, really great idea, and can only execute it by incorporating someone else's cultural history, talk to some people from that culture and get their input to make sure that what you are creating has some semblance of a connection to reality and isn't horrifically offensive.
The designers of this game failed utterly at both points. When confronted about this, they have acknowledged that they made factual errors while implying that it was really hard to avoid (note: a single google search for "totem pole" will tell you within 2 minutes that they were never created by any of the Prairie nations, as just one extremely simple example) and then blamed their publisher for everything. They don't seem to be learning much from this fiasco either.
Maybe I should have lead with. I think he should change it also. Sorry about that.
Changing it isn't a big deal because usually the theme is pasted on to fit the mechanics.
He could have -erase my silly goose remark, pointy ears being a reference to elves- changed it to a fantasy theme and it wouldn't have made a difference.
A difference to how the game plays/the mechanics.
Well yeah, that's the problem though. Their first response was literally just well here in Germany we don't have negative stereotypes of indigenous people, just positive ones so really there's no issue because we don't see one and besides a work of fiction creates a new reality
So uhhh what do y'all think about the whole Manitoba fracas?
I think it's not that big a deal. Theme is usually pasted on to make the mechanics easier to explain. The designer could have called it manitobe and have given the people in the pictures pointy ears and it wouldn't have made a difference.
this is exactly why people should get these things right and we should be extra critical of shit like Manitoba
I'd venture that there are plenty of minority groups out there that would probably love to have someone talk with them and to share their history/culture if given the opportunity. But obviously that requires time/research/effort.
I'd venture that there are plenty of minority groups out there that would probably love to have someone talk with them and to share their history/culture if given the opportunity. But obviously that requires time/research/effort.
Even that isn't quite the right way to do it. The best is for them to be able to share their stories themselves, and for us to give them the platform to do so in s way they wish.
So uhhh what do y'all think about the whole Manitoba fracas?
I think it's not that big a deal. Theme is usually pasted on to make the mechanics easier to explain. The designer could have called it manitobe and have given the people in the pictures pointy ears and it wouldn't have made a difference.
This is... a really bad comment. For several reasons. The first being that you clearly have no idea why white people using an aboriginal culture for profit after other white people have spent about 150 years deliberately trying to destroy it is problematic. The second being that even your example of a "fix" is disgustingly racist.
There's a couple of really easy rules for anyone who wants to make money by selling another person's culture for profit:
1) Don't.
2) If, for some reason, you think that you have a really, really great idea, and can only execute it by incorporating someone else's cultural history, talk to some people from that culture and get their input to make sure that what you are creating has some semblance of a connection to reality and isn't horrifically offensive.
The designers of this game failed utterly at both points. When confronted about this, they have acknowledged that they made factual errors while implying that it was really hard to avoid (note: a single google search for "totem pole" will tell you within 2 minutes that they were never created by any of the Prairie nations, as just one extremely simple example) and then blamed their publisher for everything. They don't seem to be learning much from this fiasco either.
Maybe I should have lead with. I think he should change it also. Sorry about that.
Changing it isn't a big deal because usually the theme is pasted on to fit the mechanics.
He could have -erase my silly goose remark, pointy ears being a reference to elves- changed it to a fantasy theme and it wouldn't have made a difference.
A difference to how the game plays/the mechanics.
Well yeah, that's the problem though. Their first response was literally just well here in Germany we don't have negative stereotypes of indigenous people, just positive ones so really there's no issue because we don't see one and besides a work of fiction creates a new reality
German attitudes about Native Americans should be taught in every classroom as an example of how "positive stereotyping" still sucks and is harmful and disrespectful.
I'd venture that there are plenty of minority groups out there that would probably love to have someone talk with them and to share their history/culture if given the opportunity. But obviously that requires time/research/effort.
Even that isn't quite the right way to do it. The best is for them to be able to share their stories themselves, and for us to give them the platform to do so in s way they wish.
Completely agreed. Was coming at it from the "if they're going to do it they should at least make the attempt" route.
As someone who is, as a general rule, not that big a fan of dice games, Formula D is really good. The press your luck element really shines, it plays a bunch of people, and is really fast and funny. But just know that, at it's heart, it's still basically a roll and move game.
As someone who is, as a general rule, not that big a fan of dice games, Formula D is really good. The press your luck element really shines, it plays a bunch of people, and is really fast and funny. But just know that, at it's heart, it's still basically a roll and move game.
Agreed. Waaay back in the day we used to run a one-lapper at the end of every monthly game club session at the Compleat Strategist in Manhattan, with the winner receiving that month's issue of "Playboy". I still have the Belinda Carlisle issue around here somewhere...
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Boy are you in the wrong on this. Way to lazily dismiss the commercialization and cultural appropriation of an already often marginalized set of peoples and cultures.
If the designers wanted to make a game about fantastical native cultures, they should have done that. It would still be offensive, but still less so than putting nearly every native american / first nations stereotype they can fit onto and into a box together. It just makes them all out to be royal asshats for trampling all over a culture they apparently wanted to explore (or maybe exploit <_< ), but couldn't be assed to do any research towards. This is built into a number of the game's core mechanics, having players literally advance a totem path and work on crafting wampum belts. Like, for fuck's sake, they even get their geographical description of the province wrong.
None of this is helped by the designers' participation in the conversation to not acknowledge any of this as problematic behaviour, and basically double down on their "works of fiction create new reality" horseshit.
Don't buy this game. Don't support the designers or publisher for this product. It's 2018; it is on them to do better.
Perhaps I can interest you in my meager selection of pins?
http://steamcommunity.com/id/pablocampy
This is... a really bad comment. For several reasons. The first being that you clearly have no idea why white people using an aboriginal culture for profit after other white people have spent about 150 years deliberately trying to destroy it is problematic. The second being that even your example of a "fix" is disgustingly racist.
There's a couple of really easy rules for anyone who wants to make money by selling another person's culture for profit:
1) Don't.
2) If, for some reason, you think that you have a really, really great idea, and can only execute it by incorporating someone else's cultural history, talk to some people from that culture and get their input to make sure that what you are creating has some semblance of a connection to reality and isn't horrifically offensive.
The designers of this game failed utterly at both points. When confronted about this, they have acknowledged that they made factual errors while implying that it was really hard to avoid (note: a single google search for "totem pole" will tell you within 2 minutes that they were never created by any of the Prairie nations, as just one extremely simple example) and then blamed their publisher for everything. They don't seem to be learning much from this fiasco either.
I've heard Flamme Rouge is really good but I just can't get over the theme having no appeal at all
http://steamcommunity.com/id/pablocampy
Just make sure if you play with a lot of players that people understand it is supposed to move FAST. I have had people try to play that game where when it gets to their turn they look at the board and start counting spaces, and start analyzing the number distribution on each die, and it just bogs down into nonsense. You might take about 30-40 turns per lap, so each turn should move quickly. I'm actually thinking about getting rid of my copy even though I like the game, just because my friends tend to take too long.
I'm not familiar with the game at all but could you add some kind of timer mechanism to force people to make quicker decisions?
Relevant bgg thread https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1911764/did-designers-bother-looking-history-or-descriptio/page/1
You definitely could, as long as you think it would fly with your group. I don't think it would fly with mine. Part of the issue is that my friends are often very chatty and spend their downtime in conversation and not really watching the board, especially for lighter games like this one.
You can get it for $25 or less. I just picked up a copy that I'm hoping to play with my kids this weekend.
Maybe I should have lead with. I think he should change it also. Sorry about that.
Changing it isn't a big deal because usually the theme is pasted on to fit the mechanics.
He could have -erase my silly goose remark, pointy ears being a reference to elves- changed it to a fantasy theme and it wouldn't have made a difference.
A difference to how the game plays/the mechanics.
Is it hard to find right now? My local shop must have 6 copies on the shelf.
I mainly meant if I get around to ordering it. Which I just did! Paying a silly premium for next day shipping because I think it’ll go down well with the in-laws this weekend and I am a terrible creature of impulse.
Well yeah, that's the problem though. Their first response was literally just well here in Germany we don't have negative stereotypes of indigenous people, just positive ones so really there's no issue because we don't see one and besides a work of fiction creates a new reality
Perhaps I can interest you in my meager selection of pins?
this is exactly why people should get these things right and we should be extra critical of shit like Manitoba
it's so fucking easy to get right
Even that isn't quite the right way to do it. The best is for them to be able to share their stories themselves, and for us to give them the platform to do so in s way they wish.
German attitudes about Native Americans should be taught in every classroom as an example of how "positive stereotyping" still sucks and is harmful and disrespectful.
Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
Completely agreed. Was coming at it from the "if they're going to do it they should at least make the attempt" route.
Agreed. Waaay back in the day we used to run a one-lapper at the end of every monthly game club session at the Compleat Strategist in Manhattan, with the winner receiving that month's issue of "Playboy". I still have the Belinda Carlisle issue around here somewhere...
Origin ID: Discgolfer27
Untappd ID: Discgolfer1981
Yes sir. My mom keeps not understandin it so we're going to take a quick break. See if the idea of a legacy game clicks with her.
I think maybe you're not right but it's been a while since I did my playthrough
I just saw right at the top the whole
Okay I am now pretty sure you don't need to wait.
yes!
what questions do you have
i remember understanding but no details
the better the coins the easier it is to get armies for them