Sure, that's their solution to improving Bo1 in general. But it doesn't solve your problem, which is the existence of linear decks that don't really care what their opponent does and have polarized matchups. Combo and aggro will always have a home in their most all-in form in a Bo1 format.
This is an important point and I'm not sure how you solve for it. I think about the most degenerate game 1 decks in eternal formats (Dredge, Belcher, etc.) and the prospect of a BO1 format full of those sounds miserable.
As an outsider to competitive magic, how does a "game 1 deck" win? They crush the first game, then each player sideboards, you assume the opponent has a much better sideboard than the game one deck. Does the original deck basically just hope to win a coin flip on one of the next two or do they usually have a robust enough sideboard to be able to hold their own against other decks that they might be up against?
Basically this. There are a few reasons for this, but one of them is that the combo decks also have to run combo-hate cards in their sideboard, so the fair decks by definition have more slots to devote to hate cards than the combo decks do to anti-hate cards. There's also the fact that combo decks, by definition, require you to draw a certain combination of cards to go off. Legacy and Modern being high-powered formats means they can basically fill every slot with the card draw, tutor, or mana effects they need to make that as consistent as possible, but every one of those cards you replace with an anti-hate card makes the deck less consistent. Meanwhile the fair decks in those formats often only need to resolve one card to kill you in a few turns.
This is thrown around as an unsolvable problem for MTGA Bo1 but...
After this ban I think the meta will be pretty healthy and other games have also solved this problem.
I don't think any of your points are wrong, per say, but Magic is better than all those games. Bo3 Magic (when the formats are good) is still the best CCG experience you can have*.
Idk banning nexus seems reasonable. It was pretty universally unfun to play against, what more is there to say?
Control decks full of sweepers and counterspells are also arguably unfun to play against though. A deck whose win condition is a single copy of chromium can take just as long and be just as annoying as Nexus of fate.
I don't really mind since I try not to play Bo1 except in draft (and only there because of the price structure) but I wish they would have fixed the looping issue with a game timer or a clock or something instead of just a ban.
Aggro decks that kill you on turn five even when you have removal and blockers are pretty unfun to play against.
Basically, the goal of the Magic meta is not for all players to always have fun.
Yeah but then it's done. It doesn't hold you hostage for an hour to finish the game.
I would agree with this if the concede button didn't exist.
I think we all agree or we'd be playing other games. I just don't agree with the idea that Bo1 is by nature degenerate and will be dominated by non interactive strategies.
Best way of getting rid of nexus would be removing the concede button and forcing them to actually win.
furbat on
0
Options
admanbunionize your workplaceSeattle, WARegistered Userregular
Sure, that's their solution to improving Bo1 in general. But it doesn't solve your problem, which is the existence of linear decks that don't really care what their opponent does and have polarized matchups. Combo and aggro will always have a home in their most all-in form in a Bo1 format.
This is an important point and I'm not sure how you solve for it. I think about the most degenerate game 1 decks in eternal formats (Dredge, Belcher, etc.) and the prospect of a BO1 format full of those sounds miserable.
As an outsider to competitive magic, how does a "game 1 deck" win? They crush the first game, then each player sideboards, you assume the opponent has a much better sideboard than the game one deck. Does the original deck basically just hope to win a coin flip on one of the next two or do they usually have a robust enough sideboard to be able to hold their own against other decks that they might be up against?
Basically this. There are a few reasons for this, but one of them is that the combo decks also have to run combo-hate cards in their sideboard, so the fair decks by definition have more slots to devote to hate cards than the combo decks do to anti-hate cards. There's also the fact that combo decks, by definition, require you to draw a certain combination of cards to go off. Legacy and Modern being high-powered formats means they can basically fill every slot with the card draw, tutor, or mana effects they need to make that as consistent as possible, but every one of those cards you replace with an anti-hate card makes the deck less consistent. Meanwhile the fair decks in those formats often only need to resolve one card to kill you in a few turns.
This is thrown around as an unsolvable problem for MTGA Bo1 but...
After this ban I think the meta will be pretty healthy and other games have also solved this problem.
I don't think any of your points are wrong, per say, but Magic is better than all those games. Bo3 Magic (when the formats are good) is still the best CCG experience you can have*.
Idk banning nexus seems reasonable. It was pretty universally unfun to play against, what more is there to say?
Control decks full of sweepers and counterspells are also arguably unfun to play against though. A deck whose win condition is a single copy of chromium can take just as long and be just as annoying as Nexus of fate.
I don't really mind since I try not to play Bo1 except in draft (and only there because of the price structure) but I wish they would have fixed the looping issue with a game timer or a clock or something instead of just a ban.
Aggro decks that kill you on turn five even when you have removal and blockers are pretty unfun to play against.
Basically, the goal of the Magic meta is not for all players to always have fun.
Yeah but then it's done. It doesn't hold you hostage for an hour to finish the game.
I would agree with this if the concede button didn't exist.
I think we all agree or we'd be playing other games. I just don't agree with the idea that Bo1 is by nature degenerate and will be dominated by non interactive strategies.
Best way of getting rid of nexus would be removing the concede button and forcing them to actually win.
Bo1 tends towards all-in linear strategies, and many popular archetypes in Magic work specifically because of a strong game 1 and a weaker game 2 and 3. Given that, it is inevitable that a Bo1 focused format either leans towards all-in linear archetypes more than Bo3, requires aggressive bannings, and/or influences design heavily to the point that all-in decks are disfavored even in Bo1, which makes them unplayable in Bo3 (and means we don't get fun new toys like e.g. Creeping Chill)
Like "design Magic so Bo1 is mostly midrange and aggro + combo aren't dominant" either needs a lot of bans or is also saying "design Magic so Bo3 is entirely midrange soup."
Yeah, that edit is exactly why I find your vision of Magic pretty apalling, Furbat. Your suggestions for the game are clearly motivated in large part by spite, and you don't understand what makes other subsets of Magic players tick (anybody saying "make combo decks play it out" as a defense mechanism doesn't get that combo players like going off.).
You're suggestions read as 100% "Make Magic for furbat" and not "make Magic good."
@milski It is possible that people can have different ideas about what makes magic fun and that's ok?
Magic is big enough to support a massive range of playstyles and none is automatically better than another. People can honestly disagree about what the best version of magic would look like without accusing them of being motivated by spite.
Edit: On the whole Bo1 Nexus banning, I'm pretty happy with what they did. I think now that midrange and control decks don't have to fear losing to Nexus going over the top, they can tech more against the mono-red and mono-white aggro and Bo1 will stabilize into a more diverse metagame. Even through mono-red is cheap, people aren't going to keep playing it if it can't win against anything.
Korror on
Battlenet ID: NullPointer
0
Options
admanbunionize your workplaceSeattle, WARegistered Userregular
@milski It is possible that people can have different ideas about what makes magic fun and that's ok?
Magic is big enough to support a massive range of playstyles and none is automatically better than another. People can honestly disagree about what the best version of magic would look like without accusing them of being motivated by spite.
That's true of nearly everyone discussing this, but furbat's posts are absolutely motivated by spite.
I would love a run-down of the design of Nexus like they did for a few of those other cards. I.e., explaining their thought process in choosing the abilities, the mana cost, and the re-shuffle effect. Not for hate or negative reasons, but I just love crap like that.
XBL: Bizazedo
PSN: Bizazedo
CFN: Bizazedo (I don't think I suck, add me).
+1
Options
admanbunionize your workplaceSeattle, WARegistered Userregular
There's a bit of jank in there because I wanted to play Vannifar, and it would probably be better with removal and planeswalkers, but it's a starting point.
Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
I have my old jank singleton deck.
I guess I'll use that.
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
I would love a run-down of the design of Nexus like they did for a few of those other cards. I.e., explaining their thought process in choosing the abilities, the mana cost, and the re-shuffle effect. Not for hate or negative reasons, but I just love crap like that.
It'd be neat as a post-mortem. My guess is as follows:
Nexus of Fate: 5UU
Instant
Take an extra turn after this one.
A: Instant speed extra turn. 7 mana to compare favorably to Beacon of Tomorrows.
B: Seems dangerous with Torrential Gearhulk, especially for a promo card.
C: Exiles on cast
C: Might present memory issues/confusion with mill in casual play, especially in multiples.
B: Now shuffles into the library when it enters the graveyard.
Hey guys, what about the combination of this and Search for Azcanta Message not sent -- Retry?
The calls for nexus bans in Bo3 were for more or less the same reasons there were calls to ban it in Bo1. The deck is a T1 to T1.5 deck that is to quote chris clay on twitch 'unfun and anti-play'. If it wasn't strong and wasn't linear there wouldn't be calls to ban it. You think bringing that up is dishonest?
The difference is in Bo1 is was actually busted from a balance perspective.
I've complained about combo in general? What? Nexus is a problem, it got banned. RDW was making up close to 40% of the meta at points, though that seems to have gone down. Yes, it's going to take bans to keep Bo1 healthy. WotC agrees, obviously.
Hearthstone has a lot of problems and certainly isn't a paragon of balance, but very rarely has a deck made up more than 20% of the meta. When it does, it's because they aren't aggressive enough with nerfs. Banning cards periodically is healthy for the game. There seems to be this sentiment among the old school mtg players that a card shouldn't be banned until it makes up half the top 8.
milski It is possible that people can have different ideas about what makes magic fun and that's ok?
Magic is big enough to support a massive range of playstyles and none is automatically better than another. People can honestly disagree about what the best version of magic would look like without accusing them of being motivated by spite.
Edit: On the whole Bo1 Nexus banning, I'm pretty happy with what they did. I think now that midrange and control decks don't have to fear losing to Nexus going over the top, they can tech more against the mono-red and mono-white aggro and Bo1 will stabilize into a more diverse metagame. Even through mono-red is cheap, people aren't going to keep playing it if it can't win against anything.
My statement about furbat is not based on their liking or disliking certain archetypes, it's based on statements that clearly indicate contempt for certain kinds of players.
"I don't want people whose cards get banned to get wildcards specifically if that card is Nexus" is not the statement of somebody who just thinks Nexus is degenerate, it's the statement of somebody who thinks anybody who touches the deck is degenerate.
milski It is possible that people can have different ideas about what makes magic fun and that's ok?
Magic is big enough to support a massive range of playstyles and none is automatically better than another. People can honestly disagree about what the best version of magic would look like without accusing them of being motivated by spite.
I know he actually just addressed this but milksi perhaps more consistently than anyone else in the thread has advocated for maximum diversity in viable playstyles, so you're definitely preaching to the choir on this.
Yeah, that edit is exactly why I find your vision of Magic pretty apalling, Furbat. Your suggestions for the game are clearly motivated in large part by spite, and you don't understand what makes other subsets of Magic players tick (anybody saying "make combo decks play it out" as a defense mechanism doesn't get that combo players like going off.).
You're suggestions read as 100% "Make Magic for furbat" and not "make Magic good."
You know, I pointed out that every forum was filled with complaints about the card and every streamer was complaining about nexus and you responded that cards don't get banned because 'people on the internet are angry'. Guess you were wrong, huh.
You are an elitist who thinks the hoi polloi should be ignored to protect the integrity of magic. We certainly shouldn't do anything to make Bo1 players happy either cause fuck them.
Sorry you find the future of magic appalling. Sucks they'd cater to someone other than you. Boo hoo.
Actually I'm pretty glad their lots of variants of each f the major archetypes right now. Lot sof different mono-red, sultai, and esper variations going around.
I'd personally like to see less control, and I'm actually kind of bummed I can't run some of my more janky decks (high alert, simic ascendancy, cavalcade) because there's no way to protect the enchantments from mortify, Nissa, other exile enchants unless you run counterspells.
Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
When everyone is monored, you can have three FNM's a night.
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
Went 5-0 with this. Definitely not optimized, but hilarious. Last game I got to drop Legion Warboss and Divine Visitation on curve with Shalai in the middle.. Yes, I will take a free 4/4 flyer every turn, thanks.
Oh weird, my Mythic rank has fallen to #1172. I thought it could only go up to 1000.
I don't particularly care about my mythic rank at the moment, I'm just glad I'm in mythic. Gonna try to stream some drafts tonight though! Getting that to mythic seems much harder due to the entry costs. Plat tier 2 in limited at the moment.
Hmm. Wouldn't a Petitioners' deck be the exact opposite of what's required for a singleton game? Because it's letting me use my Petitioners deck for the singleton event.
0
Options
Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
This was one of the most fun decks I've ever drafted, and I've drafted a lot of decks:
Finished 7-2. Multiple games won with 1 or fewer cards in library AFTER resolving Clear the Mind, including a game where at one point the life totals were 42 to 1 (not in our favor).
jakobaggerLO THY DREAD EMPIRE CHAOS IS RESTOREDRegistered Userregular
Had a 6 win draft, felt alright at limited.
Then proceeded to 0-3 the next one. I got my ear canal cleaned in between the two drafts and apparently my Magic skills were in there, bound up in hardened ear wax like Samson's strength in hair??
I've done well enough in the ranked draft I'm considering attempting the regular draft after I finish this next ranked. Can't climb to mythic, but the rewards are much higher if I can do well.
I also don't like how nexus owners get to keep the card for bo3 and also get mythic wildcards for each copy.
But that's born from a weird half-ban effect and making all nexus owners just eat the ban with no compensation is too far the other way.
I think they should've taken it the other way: give the Nexus owners Mythic WCs for each Nexus and then give everyone else 4xNexus.
This or just delete all Nexus' and replace with wildcards. If you want them, you can craft them again, and otherwise are reimbursed. I'm quite bitter that some players got 4 free wildcards and I didn't.
I also don't like how nexus owners get to keep the card for bo3 and also get mythic wildcards for each copy.
But that's born from a weird half-ban effect and making all nexus owners just eat the ban with no compensation is too far the other way.
I think they should've taken it the other way: give the Nexus owners Mythic WCs for each Nexus and then give everyone else 4xNexus.
This or just delete all Nexus' and replace with wildcards. If you want them, you can craft them again, and otherwise are reimbursed. I'm quite bitter that some players got 4 free wildcards and I didn't.
You didn't lose anything by them being compensated for something they actually spent, and now can't use in the same way they could when they acquired them.
I also don't like how nexus owners get to keep the card for bo3 and also get mythic wildcards for each copy.
But that's born from a weird half-ban effect and making all nexus owners just eat the ban with no compensation is too far the other way.
I think they should've taken it the other way: give the Nexus owners Mythic WCs for each Nexus and then give everyone else 4xNexus.
This or just delete all Nexus' and replace with wildcards. If you want them, you can craft them again, and otherwise are reimbursed. I'm quite bitter that some players got 4 free wildcards and I didn't.
You didn't lose anything by them being compensated for something they actually spent, and now can't use in the same way they could when they acquired them.
But they can still use them in plenty of other ways. And I could have bought them yesterday if plans were announced in advance, etc. I know I shouldn't be upset at someone else's good fortune, and I've got no problem with the players that got free stuff. It's just the second dumbest possible way for WotC to handle it (the dumbest being banning with no reimbursement at all).
I also don't like how nexus owners get to keep the card for bo3 and also get mythic wildcards for each copy.
But that's born from a weird half-ban effect and making all nexus owners just eat the ban with no compensation is too far the other way.
I think they should've taken it the other way: give the Nexus owners Mythic WCs for each Nexus and then give everyone else 4xNexus.
This or just delete all Nexus' and replace with wildcards. If you want them, you can craft them again, and otherwise are reimbursed. I'm quite bitter that some players got 4 free wildcards and I didn't.
This is always the most entitled take whenever compensation is offered in a f2p game.
People who own 4x Nexus invested way more than four Mythic WCs building the deck— I’m sure the compensation hardly matches the investment lost. People who don’t own Nexus (myself included) either don’t like playing the deck, or don’t like playing against the deck, and in either case have no sunk cost from building a deck around it. You don’t get to call for a card’s banning and then be upset you didn’t get the same compensation as the people who were actually impacted by its ban.
I also don't like how nexus owners get to keep the card for bo3 and also get mythic wildcards for each copy.
But that's born from a weird half-ban effect and making all nexus owners just eat the ban with no compensation is too far the other way.
I think they should've taken it the other way: give the Nexus owners Mythic WCs for each Nexus and then give everyone else 4xNexus.
This or just delete all Nexus' and replace with wildcards. If you want them, you can craft them again, and otherwise are reimbursed. I'm quite bitter that some players got 4 free wildcards and I didn't.
This is always the most entitled take whenever compensation is offered in a f2p game.
People who own 4x Nexus invested way more than four Mythic WCs building the deck— I’m sure the compensation hardly matches the investment lost. People who don’t own Nexus (myself included) either don’t like playing the deck, or don’t like playing against the deck, and in either case have no sunk cost from building a deck around it. You don’t get to call for a card’s banning and then be upset you didn’t get the same compensation as the people who were actually impacted by its ban.
This isn't true, and I disagree with your characterization of entitlement. I would enjoy playing the deck, I don't mind playing against it, and literally thought of purchasing it yesterday, but didn't because I decided to watch a TV show instead.
I don't begrudge players getting reimbursed, but this is the silliest way WotC can handle it. They could have simply removed Nexus' from accounts and given wildcards, with no net benefit or cost to anyone. Or, they could have announced ahead of time (I know they never do this). Or, they could award wildcards to those that had them and give 4x Nexus to everyone to play with in Bo3 and casual play.
I'm not saying this is a great injustice, it's just a terrible feeling for me, like waiting in line for something and it running out before I got it, that could be entirely avoided. There's no reason to make users feel that way when there are zero-downside options that hurt no one.
PSN: Broodax- battle.net: broodax#1163
0
Options
admanbunionize your workplaceSeattle, WARegistered Userregular
I'm so fuckin' sad that my opponent conceded here:
I also don't like how nexus owners get to keep the card for bo3 and also get mythic wildcards for each copy.
But that's born from a weird half-ban effect and making all nexus owners just eat the ban with no compensation is too far the other way.
I think they should've taken it the other way: give the Nexus owners Mythic WCs for each Nexus and then give everyone else 4xNexus.
This or just delete all Nexus' and replace with wildcards. If you want them, you can craft them again, and otherwise are reimbursed. I'm quite bitter that some players got 4 free wildcards and I didn't.
This is always the most entitled take whenever compensation is offered in a f2p game.
People who own 4x Nexus invested way more than four Mythic WCs building the deck— I’m sure the compensation hardly matches the investment lost. People who don’t own Nexus (myself included) either don’t like playing the deck, or don’t like playing against the deck, and in either case have no sunk cost from building a deck around it. You don’t get to call for a card’s banning and then be upset you didn’t get the same compensation as the people who were actually impacted by its ban.
This isn't true, and I disagree with your characterization of entitlement. I would enjoy playing the deck, I don't mind playing against it, and literally thought of purchasing it yesterday, but didn't because I decided to watch a TV show instead.
I don't begrudge players getting reimbursed, but this is the silliest way WotC can handle it. They could have simply removed Nexus' from accounts and given wildcards, with no net benefit or cost to anyone. Or, they could have announced ahead of time (I know they never do this). Or, they could award wildcards to those that had them and give 4x Nexus to everyone to play with in Bo3 and casual play.
I'm not saying this is a great injustice, it's just a terrible feeling for me, like waiting in line for something and it running out before I got it, that could be entirely avoided. There's no reason to make users feel that way when there are zero-downside options that hurt no one.
That’s fair, and I took an overly harsh tone in my last message, probably due to playing a lot of FFBE and reading tons of Reddit salt whenever compensation was announced in that game.
I think they need to balance giving out freebies with making enough money to be profitable. Of the suggestions you listed, I like giving everyone 4x Nexus the best- it lets people brew with the card for casual and BO3 while not causing Wizards to give up as much EV as giving everyone four WCs.
Mythic wildcards are kind of meh. Rare wildcards are like 10x as valuable anyway. I feel like I just blow my mythic wildcards on jank for fun but I never have half the rare wildcards I need.
Posts
I think we all agree or we'd be playing other games. I just don't agree with the idea that Bo1 is by nature degenerate and will be dominated by non interactive strategies.
Best way of getting rid of nexus would be removing the concede button and forcing them to actually win.
lol
Like "design Magic so Bo1 is mostly midrange and aggro + combo aren't dominant" either needs a lot of bans or is also saying "design Magic so Bo3 is entirely midrange soup."
You're suggestions read as 100% "Make Magic for furbat" and not "make Magic good."
Magic is big enough to support a massive range of playstyles and none is automatically better than another. People can honestly disagree about what the best version of magic would look like without accusing them of being motivated by spite.
Edit: On the whole Bo1 Nexus banning, I'm pretty happy with what they did. I think now that midrange and control decks don't have to fear losing to Nexus going over the top, they can tech more against the mono-red and mono-white aggro and Bo1 will stabilize into a more diverse metagame. Even through mono-red is cheap, people aren't going to keep playing it if it can't win against anything.
That's true of nearly everyone discussing this, but furbat's posts are absolutely motivated by spite.
PSN: Bizazedo
CFN: Bizazedo (I don't think I suck, add me).
I threw together Sultai Creatures and went 4-2 and 5-1.
1 Dusk Legion Zealot (RIX) 70
1 Opt (DAR) 60
1 Siren Stormtamer (XLN) 79
1 Adventurous Impulse (DAR) 153
1 Llanowar Elves (DAR) 168
1 Incubation Druid (RNA) 131
1 Kraul Harpooner (GRN) 136
1 Merfolk Branchwalker (XLN) 197
1 Thorn Lieutenant (M19) 203
1 Jadelight Ranger (RIX) 136
1 Beast Whisperer (GRN) 123
1 Guardian Project (RNA) 130
1 Biogenic Ooze (RNA) 122
1 Nullhide Ferox (GRN) 138
1 Carnage Tyrant (XLN) 179
1 Incubation // Incongruity (RNA) 226
1 Zegana, Utopian Speaker (RNA) 214
1 Hydroid Krasis (RNA) 183
1 Kitesail Freebooter (XLN) 110
4 Island (RIX) 193
1 Seekers' Squire (XLN) 121
1 Midnight Reaper (GRN) 77
1 Plaguecrafter (GRN) 82
1 Ravenous Chupacabra (RIX) 82
1 Doom Whisperer (GRN) 69
1 The Eldest Reborn (DAR) 90
1 Thief of Sanity (GRN) 205
1 Hostage Taker (XLN) 223
1 Etrata, the Silencer (GRN) 170
1 Golgari Findbroker (GRN) 175
1 Izoni, Thousand-Eyed (GRN) 180
1 Drowned Catacomb (XLN) 253
1 Watery Grave (GRN) 259
1 Dimir Guildgate (GRN) 246
1 Woodland Cemetery (DAR) 248
1 Overgrown Tomb (GRN) 253
1 Golgari Guildgate (GRN) 248
1 Breeding Pool (RNA) 246
1 Hinterland Harbor (DAR) 240
1 Simic Guildgate (RNA) 258
1 Disdainful Stroke (GRN) 37
1 Memorial to Genius (DAR) 243
1 Memorial to Folly (DAR) 242
1 Memorial to Unity (DAR) 245
1 Submerged Boneyard (M19) 257
1 Foul Orchard (M19) 251
1 Woodland Stream (M19) 260
4 Swamp (RIX) 194
3 Forest (RIX) 196
1 Exclusion Mage (M19) 55
1 Mirror Image (M19) 61
There's a bit of jank in there because I wanted to play Vannifar, and it would probably be better with removal and planeswalkers, but it's a starting point.
I guess I'll use that.
It'd be neat as a post-mortem. My guess is as follows:
Nexus of Fate: 5UU
Instant
Take an extra turn after this one.
A: Instant speed extra turn. 7 mana to compare favorably to Beacon of Tomorrows.
B: Seems dangerous with Torrential Gearhulk, especially for a promo card.
C: Exiles on cast
C: Might present memory issues/confusion with mill in casual play, especially in multiples.
B: Now shuffles into the library when it enters the graveyard.
The difference is in Bo1 is was actually busted from a balance perspective.
I've complained about combo in general? What? Nexus is a problem, it got banned. RDW was making up close to 40% of the meta at points, though that seems to have gone down. Yes, it's going to take bans to keep Bo1 healthy. WotC agrees, obviously.
Hearthstone has a lot of problems and certainly isn't a paragon of balance, but very rarely has a deck made up more than 20% of the meta. When it does, it's because they aren't aggressive enough with nerfs. Banning cards periodically is healthy for the game. There seems to be this sentiment among the old school mtg players that a card shouldn't be banned until it makes up half the top 8.
My statement about furbat is not based on their liking or disliking certain archetypes, it's based on statements that clearly indicate contempt for certain kinds of players.
"I don't want people whose cards get banned to get wildcards specifically if that card is Nexus" is not the statement of somebody who just thinks Nexus is degenerate, it's the statement of somebody who thinks anybody who touches the deck is degenerate.
I know he actually just addressed this but milksi perhaps more consistently than anyone else in the thread has advocated for maximum diversity in viable playstyles, so you're definitely preaching to the choir on this.
But that's born from a weird half-ban effect and making all nexus owners just eat the ban with no compensation is too far the other way.
I think they should've taken it the other way: give the Nexus owners Mythic WCs for each Nexus and then give everyone else 4xNexus.
You know, I pointed out that every forum was filled with complaints about the card and every streamer was complaining about nexus and you responded that cards don't get banned because 'people on the internet are angry'. Guess you were wrong, huh.
You are an elitist who thinks the hoi polloi should be ignored to protect the integrity of magic. We certainly shouldn't do anything to make Bo1 players happy either cause fuck them.
Sorry you find the future of magic appalling. Sucks they'd cater to someone other than you. Boo hoo.
Actually I'm pretty glad their lots of variants of each f the major archetypes right now. Lot sof different mono-red, sultai, and esper variations going around.
I'd personally like to see less control, and I'm actually kind of bummed I can't run some of my more janky decks (high alert, simic ascendancy, cavalcade) because there's no way to protect the enchantments from mortify, Nissa, other exile enchants unless you run counterspells.
Steam ID: Obos Vent: Obos
That would be a shocking development
7 Mountain (RIX) 195
1 Angelic Exaltation (RNA) 2
1 Shalai, Voice of Plenty (DAR) 35
1 Angel of Grace (RNA) 1
1 Angel of the Dawn (M19) 7
1 Divine Visitation (GRN) 10
1 Archway Angel (RNA) 3
1 Serra Angel (DAR) 33
1 Lyra Dawnbringer (DAR) 26
1 Herald of Faith (M19) 13
1 Aurelia, Exemplar of Justice (GRN) 153
13 Plains (RIX) 192
1 Light of the Legion (GRN) 19
1 Serra's Guardian (M19) 284
1 Healer's Hawk (GRN) 14
1 Haazda Marshal (GRN) 13
1 Legion's Landing (XLN) 22
1 Leonin Vanguard (M19) 22
1 Adanto Vanguard (XLN) 1
1 Baffling End (RIX) 1
1 Dawn of Hope (GRN) 8
1 Tocatli Honor Guard (XLN) 42
1 Tithe Taker (RNA) 27
1 Sentinel's Mark (RNA) 20
1 History of Benalia (DAR) 21
1 Luminous Bonds (M19) 25
1 Ministrant of Obligation (RNA) 16
1 Ajani, Adversary of Tyrants (M19) 3
1 Syndicate Messenger (RNA) 25
1 Lightning Strike (M19) 152
1 Lava Coil (GRN) 108
1 Skewer the Critics (RNA) 115
1 Verix Bladewing (DAR) 149
1 Hunted Witness (GRN) 15
1 Squire's Devotion (RIX) 25
1 Siege-Gang Commander (DAR) 143
1 Legion Warboss (GRN) 109
1 Stone Quarry (M19) 256
1 Clifftop Retreat (DAR) 239
1 Boros Guildgate (GRN) 244
1 Sacred Foundry (GRN) 254
Went 5-0 with this. Definitely not optimized, but hilarious. Last game I got to drop Legion Warboss and Divine Visitation on curve with Shalai in the middle.. Yes, I will take a free 4/4 flyer every turn, thanks.
I don't particularly care about my mythic rank at the moment, I'm just glad I'm in mythic. Gonna try to stream some drafts tonight though! Getting that to mythic seems much harder due to the entry costs. Plat tier 2 in limited at the moment.
7 Island (RIX) 193
1 Essence Scatter (M19) 54
1 Disdainful Stroke (GRN) 37
1 Nightveil Sprite (GRN) 48
1 Mission Briefing (GRN) 44
1 Unexplained Disappearance (GRN) 56
1 Deep Freeze (DAR) 50
1 Sinister Sabotage (GRN) 54
1 Chemister's Insight (GRN) 32
1 Capture Sphere (GRN) 31
1 Devious Cover-Up (GRN) 35
1 Murmuring Mystic (GRN) 45
1 Thoughtbound Phantasm (GRN) 55
1 In Bolas's Clutches (DAR) 54
1 Dream Eater (GRN) 38
1 Entrancing Melody (XLN) 55
8 Swamp (RIX) 194
1 Whispering Snitch (GRN) 90
1 Blood Operative (GRN) 63
1 Murder (M19) 110
1 Price of Fame (GRN) 83
1 Ritual of Soot (GRN) 84
1 Vraska's Contempt (XLN) 129
1 Doom Whisperer (GRN) 69
1 Demonlord Belzenlok (DAR) 86
1 Dimir Spybug (GRN) 166
1 Discovery // Dispersal (GRN) 223
1 House Guildmage (GRN) 177
1 Darkblade Agent (GRN) 164
1 Disinformation Campaign (GRN) 167
1 Etrata, the Silencer (GRN) 170
1 Drowned Catacomb (XLN) 253
1 Submerged Boneyard (M19) 257
1 Dimir Guildgate (GRN) 246
1 Overgrown Tomb (GRN) 253
1 Hinterland Harbor (DAR) 240
1 Woodland Cemetery (DAR) 248
1 Vraska, Golgari Queen (GRN) 213
1 Thief of Sanity (GRN) 205
1 Nightveil Predator (GRN) 191
1 Notion Rain (GRN) 193
1 Connive // Concoct (GRN) 222
1 Hostage Taker (XLN) 223
1 Muldrotha, the Gravetide (DAR) 199
1 Watery Grave (GRN) 259
1 Vraska, Relic Seeker (XLN) 232
I am 4-0 with this right now but I also have to go to the hospital so *shrug*
It's very fun, though.
Ah, that makes sense then. Thanks for the info.
Finished 7-2. Multiple games won with 1 or fewer cards in library AFTER resolving Clear the Mind, including a game where at one point the life totals were 42 to 1 (not in our favor).
Path of Exile: snowcrash7
MTG Arena: Snow_Crash#34179
Battle.net: Snowcrash#1873
Then proceeded to 0-3 the next one. I got my ear canal cleaned in between the two drafts and apparently my Magic skills were in there, bound up in hardened ear wax like Samson's strength in hair??
This or just delete all Nexus' and replace with wildcards. If you want them, you can craft them again, and otherwise are reimbursed. I'm quite bitter that some players got 4 free wildcards and I didn't.
You didn't lose anything by them being compensated for something they actually spent, and now can't use in the same way they could when they acquired them.
But they can still use them in plenty of other ways. And I could have bought them yesterday if plans were announced in advance, etc. I know I shouldn't be upset at someone else's good fortune, and I've got no problem with the players that got free stuff. It's just the second dumbest possible way for WotC to handle it (the dumbest being banning with no reimbursement at all).
This is always the most entitled take whenever compensation is offered in a f2p game.
People who own 4x Nexus invested way more than four Mythic WCs building the deck— I’m sure the compensation hardly matches the investment lost. People who don’t own Nexus (myself included) either don’t like playing the deck, or don’t like playing against the deck, and in either case have no sunk cost from building a deck around it. You don’t get to call for a card’s banning and then be upset you didn’t get the same compensation as the people who were actually impacted by its ban.
Path of Exile: snowcrash7
MTG Arena: Snow_Crash#34179
Battle.net: Snowcrash#1873
This isn't true, and I disagree with your characterization of entitlement. I would enjoy playing the deck, I don't mind playing against it, and literally thought of purchasing it yesterday, but didn't because I decided to watch a TV show instead.
I don't begrudge players getting reimbursed, but this is the silliest way WotC can handle it. They could have simply removed Nexus' from accounts and given wildcards, with no net benefit or cost to anyone. Or, they could have announced ahead of time (I know they never do this). Or, they could award wildcards to those that had them and give 4x Nexus to everyone to play with in Bo3 and casual play.
I'm not saying this is a great injustice, it's just a terrible feeling for me, like waiting in line for something and it running out before I got it, that could be entirely avoided. There's no reason to make users feel that way when there are zero-downside options that hurt no one.
That’s fair, and I took an overly harsh tone in my last message, probably due to playing a lot of FFBE and reading tons of Reddit salt whenever compensation was announced in that game.
I think they need to balance giving out freebies with making enough money to be profitable. Of the suggestions you listed, I like giving everyone 4x Nexus the best- it lets people brew with the card for casual and BO3 while not causing Wizards to give up as much EV as giving everyone four WCs.
Sorry for being a goose
Path of Exile: snowcrash7
MTG Arena: Snow_Crash#34179
Battle.net: Snowcrash#1873