Just out of curiosity, does anyone know any of these 'black pill' incels?
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BethrynUnhappiness is MandatoryRegistered Userregular
Subscriber counts significantly underestimate interest. Average pageviews over a long period of time is a good indicator of general interest, and you can account for anomalous spikes of interest easily.
I haven't really met incels online but I have met people who seem to be on step 1 to that path, usually by becoming obsessed with their own repulsiveness (hint: they have body dysmorphia or something, when they post pics they are invariably average-looking dudes)
Subscriber counts significantly underestimate interest. Average pageviews over a long period of time is a good indicator of general interest, and you can account for anomalous spikes of interest easily.
Interest correlates poorly with membership and investment, since those two things are both predictors of interest and pageviews.
Marty: The future, it's where you're going? Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
Earlier in the day people seem dismissive of dudes who feel women are messing with them when flirting.
It's a thing! I experienced quite the prank myself in junior high in front of a bunch of people, and many other jokes afterwards. Honestly I don't know if I've ever recovered and would probably be bewildered or assume a hustle if a woman ever were to hit on me.
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CambiataCommander ShepardThe likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered Userregular
I must be getting old. I hear about these things and think, this shit can't possibly be real.
I was surprised to learn that there are femcels too?
There are, but male incels relentlessly attack them so they have to self segregate and heavily mod the areas where the congregate. Or lie about thier gender. There are gay men who consider themselves incels as well, who simply pretend to be heterosexual in order to be part of the community. Many incels appear to have the philosophy that gay men and lesbians don't exist, or rather that what gay men and women do it n the bedroom is "abuse." It's also clear from the way some if them obsess over handsome men's bodies that some of them are deeply in the closet.
"If you divide the whole world into just enemies and friends, you'll end up destroying everything" --Nausicaa of the Valley of Wind
Earlier in the day people seem dismissive of dudes who feel women are messing with them when flirting.
It's a thing! I experienced quite the prank myself in junior high in front of a bunch of people, and many other jokes afterwards. Honestly I don't know if I've ever recovered and would probably be bewildered or assume a hustle if a woman ever were to hit on me.
You can shake it. You can! Seeking therapy can help, but also just... remembering that people in Jr High and Highschool were children. A 16yr old girl is a child. They do childish hateful things sometimes. You're an adult now, and when you meet adult women they won't behave that way. Grown-ass women with bills and shit do not do this sort of thing. Moreover, if they do, it's because they're still fucking children and you can safely write them off as not worth your time.
Yeah kids are cruel evil mother fuckers to each other. I whole heartedly believe people in middle school and high school have done mean evil shit to people. BUT!!! you can't let that define you. Like overall the time you spend in middle school and highschool is not a long time, and letting a short very confusing very hostile period of your life set the tone for your life is just crazy.
Like for me my biggest "becoming an adult" moment was learning to just let shit go, just let it go, it happened, it sucked, but holding on to it like this piece of coal will become a diamond if you squeeze tight enough is just not healthy.
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
It's definitely something that needs to be overcome to enjoy life. Just isn't helpful to trivialize it - that puts people on the defensive and makes things worse.
I consider them a hate group and very possibly a terrorist group, they are the KKK or Neo Nazis but target women, I think all of their venues should be shut down and they should go on lists made by intelligence agencies of each country.
I feel for the radicalized kids that are taken by this toxic philosophy, but at the same time, the ones that gather on those sites are already lost to me, its a bunch of teens and young adults that despite having all their basic needs met, are waiting and hoping to have a chance to ruin someone elses life, FUCK EM, I have a teenage daughter, if I heard someone refer to her as a femoid, Id beat them to a pulp.
I think society should do an effort to prevent them from reaching that point, maybe promoting easier access to mental health care, campaigns like the ones we have seen for bulling but for broader issues that plague teens and young adults, particularly men, who are brought up on the idea that seeking help is weakness. But once a line is crossed I dont really think they can go back and they should be treated as what they are, people radicalized into a hate group that promotes and cheers for the death and/or suffering of women AND men who are outside their group.
Yes, with a quick verbal "boom." You take a man's peko, you deny him his dab, all that is left is to rise up and tear down the walls of Jericho with a ".....not!" -TexiKen
I consider them a hate group and very possibly a terrorist group, they are the KKK or Neo Nazis but target women, I think all of their venues should be shut down and they should go on lists made by intelligence agencies of each country.
I feel for the radicalized kids that are taken by this toxic philosophy, but at the same time, the ones that gather on those sites are already lost to me, its a bunch of teens and young adults that despite having all their basic needs met, are waiting and hoping to have a chance to ruin someone elses life, FUCK EM, I have a teenage daughter, if I heard someone refer to her as a femoid, Id beat them to a pulp.
I think society should do an effort to prevent them from reaching that point, maybe promoting easier access to mental health care, campaigns like the ones we have seen for bulling but for broader issues that plague teens and young adults, particularly men, who are brought up on the idea that seeking help is weakness. But once a line is crossed I dont really think they can go back and they should be treated as what they are, people radicalized into a hate group that promotes and cheers for the death and/or suffering of women AND men who are outside their group.
Thats right tough guy, show them that problems and disagreements such as name calling can be resolved with violence.
I consider them a hate group and very possibly a terrorist group, they are the KKK or Neo Nazis but target women, I think all of their venues should be shut down and they should go on lists made by intelligence agencies of each country.
I feel for the radicalized kids that are taken by this toxic philosophy, but at the same time, the ones that gather on those sites are already lost to me, its a bunch of teens and young adults that despite having all their basic needs met, are waiting and hoping to have a chance to ruin someone elses life, FUCK EM, I have a teenage daughter, if I heard someone refer to her as a femoid, Id beat them to a pulp.
I think society should do an effort to prevent them from reaching that point, maybe promoting easier access to mental health care, campaigns like the ones we have seen for bulling but for broader issues that plague teens and young adults, particularly men, who are brought up on the idea that seeking help is weakness. But once a line is crossed I dont really think they can go back and they should be treated as what they are, people radicalized into a hate group that promotes and cheers for the death and/or suffering of women AND men who are outside their group.
Thats right tough guy, show them that problems and disagreements such as name calling can be resolved with violence.
Yes, I also agree with the "punch a Nazi" phrase, Im sorry I cant be as understanding as you, towards people that think that women who dont fuck with them should die. Maybe some day Ill be an elevated being like you, and please, refrain from the name calling, you DO know that I am upset by it.
Yes, with a quick verbal "boom." You take a man's peko, you deny him his dab, all that is left is to rise up and tear down the walls of Jericho with a ".....not!" -TexiKen
I consider them a hate group and very possibly a terrorist group, they are the KKK or Neo Nazis but target women, I think all of their venues should be shut down and they should go on lists made by intelligence agencies of each country.
I feel for the radicalized kids that are taken by this toxic philosophy, but at the same time, the ones that gather on those sites are already lost to me, its a bunch of teens and young adults that despite having all their basic needs met, are waiting and hoping to have a chance to ruin someone elses life, FUCK EM, I have a teenage daughter, if I heard someone refer to her as a femoid, Id beat them to a pulp.
I think society should do an effort to prevent them from reaching that point, maybe promoting easier access to mental health care, campaigns like the ones we have seen for bulling but for broader issues that plague teens and young adults, particularly men, who are brought up on the idea that seeking help is weakness. But once a line is crossed I dont really think they can go back and they should be treated as what they are, people radicalized into a hate group that promotes and cheers for the death and/or suffering of women AND men who are outside their group.
Thats right tough guy, show them that problems and disagreements such as name calling can be resolved with violence.
Are they wrong though? They have an ideology, a group ethos, and their own group leaders. That Vox article literally have them getting together to share tips on how to commit rape.
We don’t consider KKK not a hate group because some of their members are mentally ill. Why should Incels be different? Because they hate themselves?
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MayabirdPecking at the keyboardRegistered Userregular
Really, when you get down to it, the racist hate groups have the same issue. They also hate themselves, and deflect it by hating people of other races more than themselves. It's exactly like the incels deciding to hate women more than themselves. The only "white pride" any of them have is that they're not [insert epithet here], but they can never say anything actually good about themselves or their race, except maybe a few of the slightly more educated among them having some vague notion of "western civilization" which they haven't studied and know nothing about. They're usually also misogynistic too, just like how incels are full of racism as well. It probably all stems from the same societal failing(s).
To jump in with the "forever alone" trend: I don't think I was ever specifically "okay" with forever alone, for me I remember a quite different moment: to stop feeling bad about masturbating.
I can't remember where I read the advice from - I think it might be the internet archive of the alt.sex FAQ (it's still out there turns out) - but somewhere, I finally internalized the advice that masturbation is having sex with yourself, in a way, and such that you should treat a sexual partner respectfully you should also treat yourself respectfully.
Which, once I properly wrapped my head around, was a revolutionary idea because built right into it is the idea that you should be okay with yourself and your sexuality, and well, makes the entire experience better in every way. I'd mark that as a pretty significant milestone in my own development.
I consider them a hate group and very possibly a terrorist group, they are the KKK or Neo Nazis but target women, I think all of their venues should be shut down and they should go on lists made by intelligence agencies of each country.
I feel for the radicalized kids that are taken by this toxic philosophy, but at the same time, the ones that gather on those sites are already lost to me, its a bunch of teens and young adults that despite having all their basic needs met, are waiting and hoping to have a chance to ruin someone elses life, FUCK EM, I have a teenage daughter, if I heard someone refer to her as a femoid, Id beat them to a pulp.
I think society should do an effort to prevent them from reaching that point, maybe promoting easier access to mental health care, campaigns like the ones we have seen for bulling but for broader issues that plague teens and young adults, particularly men, who are brought up on the idea that seeking help is weakness. But once a line is crossed I dont really think they can go back and they should be treated as what they are, people radicalized into a hate group that promotes and cheers for the death and/or suffering of women AND men who are outside their group.
Thats right tough guy, show them that problems and disagreements such as name calling can be resolved with violence.
Are they wrong though? They have an ideology, a group ethos, and their own group leaders. That Vox article literally have them getting together to share tips on how to commit rape.
We don’t consider KKK not a hate group because some of their members are mentally ill. Why should Incels be different? Because they hate themselves?
I think escalating to violence solves nothing and entrenches views.
If you are confronted with someone who calls you a Chad or Beta or Cuk or Femoid, etc and you can't argue them down, or speak your piece and walk away, or just ignore them and leave, then it feels like you are ceeding the argument or confrontation by resorting to violence.
I consider them a hate group and very possibly a terrorist group, they are the KKK or Neo Nazis but target women, I think all of their venues should be shut down and they should go on lists made by intelligence agencies of each country.
I feel for the radicalized kids that are taken by this toxic philosophy, but at the same time, the ones that gather on those sites are already lost to me, its a bunch of teens and young adults that despite having all their basic needs met, are waiting and hoping to have a chance to ruin someone elses life, FUCK EM, I have a teenage daughter, if I heard someone refer to her as a femoid, Id beat them to a pulp.
I think society should do an effort to prevent them from reaching that point, maybe promoting easier access to mental health care, campaigns like the ones we have seen for bulling but for broader issues that plague teens and young adults, particularly men, who are brought up on the idea that seeking help is weakness. But once a line is crossed I dont really think they can go back and they should be treated as what they are, people radicalized into a hate group that promotes and cheers for the death and/or suffering of women AND men who are outside their group.
Thats right tough guy, show them that problems and disagreements such as name calling can be resolved with violence.
Are they wrong though? They have an ideology, a group ethos, and their own group leaders. That Vox article literally have them getting together to share tips on how to commit rape.
We don’t consider KKK not a hate group because some of their members are mentally ill. Why should Incels be different? Because they hate themselves?
I think escalating to violence solves nothing and entrenches views.
If you are confronted with someone who calls you a Chad or Beta or Cuk or Femoid, etc and you can't argue them down, or speak your piece and walk away, or just ignore them and leave, then it feels like you are ceeding the argument or confrontation by resorting to violence.
Its not an escalation, the dehumanizing term is inherently violent and used by a group that encourages and cheers on the killing of, in this particular case, a loved person. If its a white hooded person calling someone the N word, can you expect the victim to be level headed, can you simply ignore it every time someone attacks you? How far can you realistically take this philosophy?
And its ridiculous to think that retaliation will entrenchen their views, they are already radicalized idolizing a mass murderer, how could they entrench even more?
I understand and respect you for being able to stay level headed and doing the strategically right thing in the situation, for me its a far more personal matter and I honestly wouldnt be able to stay idle if I saw an Incel attacking a loved one (or anyone else, but my original example was about a loved one)
Yes, with a quick verbal "boom." You take a man's peko, you deny him his dab, all that is left is to rise up and tear down the walls of Jericho with a ".....not!" -TexiKen
Earlier in the day people seem dismissive of dudes who feel women are messing with them when flirting.
It's a thing! I experienced quite the prank myself in junior high in front of a bunch of people, and many other jokes afterwards. Honestly I don't know if I've ever recovered and would probably be bewildered or assume a hustle if a woman ever were to hit on me.
I was one of those who had a story of it happening, and having lasting effects on my self esteem. The worst part of it is that it blinded me to recognizing genuine interest. In the course of the two decades since I was a teenager, I've learned that there were a number of women (well, girls at the time) who were interested, I just never saw it - or refused to. Even now, once and a while my wife will get a funny look on her face when we're at the store or otherwise out interacting with people, which is usually followed up by a, "You know she was flirting with you, right?" At least half the time, I'm totally oblivious without the benefit of hindsight and/or her pointing it out.
It's not so much a desire to be dismissive, as I can now see as a mature adult that my experiences caused me to view the world in a way that wasn't terribly accurate even though it fit with my internal narrative and perceptions. Luckily that aspect of my life didn't become the sole focus of my self-identity, but I think for many incels, that's exactly what it is.
I consider them a hate group and very possibly a terrorist group, they are the KKK or Neo Nazis but target women, I think all of their venues should be shut down and they should go on lists made by intelligence agencies of each country.
I feel for the radicalized kids that are taken by this toxic philosophy, but at the same time, the ones that gather on those sites are already lost to me, its a bunch of teens and young adults that despite having all their basic needs met, are waiting and hoping to have a chance to ruin someone elses life, FUCK EM, I have a teenage daughter, if I heard someone refer to her as a femoid, Id beat them to a pulp.
I think society should do an effort to prevent them from reaching that point, maybe promoting easier access to mental health care, campaigns like the ones we have seen for bulling but for broader issues that plague teens and young adults, particularly men, who are brought up on the idea that seeking help is weakness. But once a line is crossed I dont really think they can go back and they should be treated as what they are, people radicalized into a hate group that promotes and cheers for the death and/or suffering of women AND men who are outside their group.
Thats right tough guy, show them that problems and disagreements such as name calling can be resolved with violence.
Are they wrong though? They have an ideology, a group ethos, and their own group leaders. That Vox article literally have them getting together to share tips on how to commit rape.
We don’t consider KKK not a hate group because some of their members are mentally ill. Why should Incels be different? Because they hate themselves?
I think escalating to violence solves nothing and entrenches views.
If you are confronted with someone who calls you a Chad or Beta or Cuk or Femoid, etc and you can't argue them down, or speak your piece and walk away, or just ignore them and leave, then it feels like you are ceeding the argument or confrontation by resorting to violence.
Its not an escalation, the dehumanizing term is inherently violent and used by a group that encourages and cheers on the killing of, in this particular case, a loved person. If its a white hooded person calling someone the N word, can you expect the victim to be level headed, can you simply ignore it every time someone attacks you? How far can you realistically take this philosophy?
And its ridiculous to think that retaliation will entrenchen their views, they are already radicalized idolizing a mass murderer, how could they entrench even more?
I understand and respect you for being able to stay level headed and doing the strategically right thing in the situation, for me its a far more personal matter and I honestly wouldnt be able to stay idle if I saw an Incel attacking a loved one (or anyone else, but my original example was about a loved one)
Resorting to physical violence for a verbal assault like beating them to a pull over name calling both ceeds the intellectual argument, and promotes a right makes right mentality that is the antithesis of social justice.
Not even getting into how much this type of attitude plays into women as property and the men in their lives are responsible for guarding them because they can't fight their own battles.
I see a lot of parallels between the incel recruitment and internalized messaging and both your average racial hate groups, but also groups that were able to radicalize actually terrorist cells through social media, i.e. ISIS and the waves of recruits they got from western countries. This is both good news and bad news, good in that people are actually studying how to de-radicalize these groups, so we as a society should be able to apply those lessons across the whole spectrum of radicalized individuals, but also scary in how even more dangerous a group like incels could become.
I consider them a hate group and very possibly a terrorist group, they are the KKK or Neo Nazis but target women, I think all of their venues should be shut down and they should go on lists made by intelligence agencies of each country.
I feel for the radicalized kids that are taken by this toxic philosophy, but at the same time, the ones that gather on those sites are already lost to me, its a bunch of teens and young adults that despite having all their basic needs met, are waiting and hoping to have a chance to ruin someone elses life, FUCK EM, I have a teenage daughter, if I heard someone refer to her as a femoid, Id beat them to a pulp.
I think society should do an effort to prevent them from reaching that point, maybe promoting easier access to mental health care, campaigns like the ones we have seen for bulling but for broader issues that plague teens and young adults, particularly men, who are brought up on the idea that seeking help is weakness. But once a line is crossed I dont really think they can go back and they should be treated as what they are, people radicalized into a hate group that promotes and cheers for the death and/or suffering of women AND men who are outside their group.
Thats right tough guy, show them that problems and disagreements such as name calling can be resolved with violence.
Are they wrong though? They have an ideology, a group ethos, and their own group leaders. That Vox article literally have them getting together to share tips on how to commit rape.
We don’t consider KKK not a hate group because some of their members are mentally ill. Why should Incels be different? Because they hate themselves?
I think escalating to violence solves nothing and entrenches views.
If you are confronted with someone who calls you a Chad or Beta or Cuk or Femoid, etc and you can't argue them down, or speak your piece and walk away, or just ignore them and leave, then it feels like you are ceeding the argument or confrontation by resorting to violence.
Its not an escalation, the dehumanizing term is inherently violent and used by a group that encourages and cheers on the killing of, in this particular case, a loved person. If its a white hooded person calling someone the N word, can you expect the victim to be level headed, can you simply ignore it every time someone attacks you? How far can you realistically take this philosophy?
And its ridiculous to think that retaliation will entrenchen their views, they are already radicalized idolizing a mass murderer, how could they entrench even more?
I understand and respect you for being able to stay level headed and doing the strategically right thing in the situation, for me its a far more personal matter and I honestly wouldnt be able to stay idle if I saw an Incel attacking a loved one (or anyone else, but my original example was about a loved one)
Resorting to physical violence for a verbal assault like beating them to a pull over name calling both ceeds the intellectual argument, and promotes a right makes right mentality that is the antithesis of social justice.
Not even getting into how much this type of attitude plays into women as property and the men in their lives are responsible for guarding them because they can't fight their own battles.
That is the most uncharitable view possible of anything I typed, it just feels as if you are trying to score points and Im not interested in that.
If there is ever a thread about justified violence to break cycles of opression, we could discuss it at lenght in there but its far from a settled topic. I hope passivity works for you, against radicalized terrorists.
Yes, with a quick verbal "boom." You take a man's peko, you deny him his dab, all that is left is to rise up and tear down the walls of Jericho with a ".....not!" -TexiKen
To jump in with the "forever alone" trend: I don't think I was ever specifically "okay" with forever alone, for me I remember a quite different moment: to stop feeling bad about masturbating.
A lot of the misogynists on the internet seem to be weirdly obsessed with shame over their masturbation habits, joining pacts not to do so and so forth. I don't know where they are getting this from.
To jump in with the "forever alone" trend: I don't think I was ever specifically "okay" with forever alone, for me I remember a quite different moment: to stop feeling bad about masturbating.
A lot of the misogynists on the internet seem to be weirdly obsessed with shame over their masturbation habits, joining pacts not to do so and so forth. I don't know where they are getting this from.
Could be gratification? Like that you can jerk off to please yourself means you aren't fully committed to the level of self hate that a black piller seems to make part an parcel of their lives?
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
To jump in with the "forever alone" trend: I don't think I was ever specifically "okay" with forever alone, for me I remember a quite different moment: to stop feeling bad about masturbating.
A lot of the misogynists on the internet seem to be weirdly obsessed with shame over their masturbation habits, joining pacts not to do so and so forth. I don't know where they are getting this from.
An awful lot of religious conservatives believe masturbation is a sin.
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CambiataCommander ShepardThe likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered Userregular
To jump in with the "forever alone" trend: I don't think I was ever specifically "okay" with forever alone, for me I remember a quite different moment: to stop feeling bad about masturbating.
A lot of the misogynists on the internet seem to be weirdly obsessed with shame over their masturbation habits, joining pacts not to do so and so forth. I don't know where they are getting this from.
An awful lot of religious conservatives believe masturbation is a sin.
Right but if you read a lot of what incels write, they pretty heavily lean towards atheist. Yet when they write up their lists of "I will only date this kind of woman" it frequently includes a wish for a religious woman so that she'll be a virgin. It's weird - it's like they're atheists with a concept of sin all rolled into one. And I'm a religious person, but I would have thought the fact that you don't have to worry about sin anymore would be one of atheism's best selling points.
"If you divide the whole world into just enemies and friends, you'll end up destroying everything" --Nausicaa of the Valley of Wind
To jump in with the "forever alone" trend: I don't think I was ever specifically "okay" with forever alone, for me I remember a quite different moment: to stop feeling bad about masturbating.
A lot of the misogynists on the internet seem to be weirdly obsessed with shame over their masturbation habits, joining pacts not to do so and so forth. I don't know where they are getting this from.
An awful lot of religious conservatives believe masturbation is a sin.
Right but if you read a lot of what incels write, they pretty heavily lean towards atheist. Yet when they write up their lists of "I will only date this kind of woman" it frequently includes a wish for a religious woman so that she'll be a virgin. It's weird - it's like they're atheists with a concept of sin all rolled into one. And I'm a religious person, but I would have thought the fact that you don't have to worry about sin anymore would be one of atheism's best selling points.
Like a lot of hard right idealogies, holding conflicting views is common.
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
OrcaAlso known as EspressosaurusWrexRegistered Userregular
edited April 2019
Maybe I'm being paranoid, but the question about site/app improvements makes me think the survey is just market research and nothing more (well, maybe with the benefit of making the results public).
Orca on
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MrMisterJesus dying on the cross in pain? Morally better than us. One has to go "all in".Registered Userregular
To jump in with the "forever alone" trend: I don't think I was ever specifically "okay" with forever alone, for me I remember a quite different moment: to stop feeling bad about masturbating.
A lot of the misogynists on the internet seem to be weirdly obsessed with shame over their masturbation habits, joining pacts not to do so and so forth. I don't know where they are getting this from.
An awful lot of religious conservatives believe masturbation is a sin.
Also: secular popular culture still views masturbation as dirty and embarrassing, even for men, and especially when a person masturbates because they can’t find a sexual partner. cf “the only date he ever had was with his right hand”
Atheists all come from religious cultures at some point, and are usually still surrounded by them. it's to be expected that they retain many of the same values and ways of life. There's not some big atheist culture to replace it
Maybe I'm being paranoid, but the question about site/app improvements makes me think the survey is just market research and nothing more (well, maybe with the benefit of making the results public).
I understand what you're saying, but what's inherently wrong with market research? I mean, if, in the most cynical interpretation, this survey leads solely to a dating app that happens to be more inclusive and friendly towards those who suffer from social anxiety or other issues, that might be dissapointing, but it's still not a bad thing.
That said, I filled out the survey, citing my own specific personal experience and told them they can quote me or contact me further if they want.
To jump in with the "forever alone" trend: I don't think I was ever specifically "okay" with forever alone, for me I remember a quite different moment: to stop feeling bad about masturbating.
A lot of the misogynists on the internet seem to be weirdly obsessed with shame over their masturbation habits, joining pacts not to do so and so forth. I don't know where they are getting this from.
An awful lot of religious conservatives believe masturbation is a sin.
Right but if you read a lot of what incels write, they pretty heavily lean towards atheist. Yet when they write up their lists of "I will only date this kind of woman" it frequently includes a wish for a religious woman so that she'll be a virgin. It's weird - it's like they're atheists with a concept of sin all rolled into one. And I'm a religious person, but I would have thought the fact that you don't have to worry about sin anymore would be one of atheism's best selling points.
If she's a virgin, she'll be sexually naive and they won't have to compete with any previous lovers. Theoretically.
...I feel gross just typing that.
In my conservative religious education, one of the reasons given for only ever having sex with one's spouse was the bullshit notion that having multiple partners makes a person crave novelty, which in turn makes one more likely to be unfaithful. Oh, and masturbating is literally cheating on your future spouse, so don't do that either. :rotate:
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CambiataCommander ShepardThe likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered Userregular
To jump in with the "forever alone" trend: I don't think I was ever specifically "okay" with forever alone, for me I remember a quite different moment: to stop feeling bad about masturbating.
A lot of the misogynists on the internet seem to be weirdly obsessed with shame over their masturbation habits, joining pacts not to do so and so forth. I don't know where they are getting this from.
An awful lot of religious conservatives believe masturbation is a sin.
Right but if you read a lot of what incels write, they pretty heavily lean towards atheist. Yet when they write up their lists of "I will only date this kind of woman" it frequently includes a wish for a religious woman so that she'll be a virgin. It's weird - it's like they're atheists with a concept of sin all rolled into one. And I'm a religious person, but I would have thought the fact that you don't have to worry about sin anymore would be one of atheism's best selling points.
If she's a virgin, she'll be sexually naive and they won't have to compete with any previous lovers. Theoretically.
...I feel gross just typing that.
While this is the probable actual reason why they insist on virginity, their stated version is that the more sex a woman has, the more stretched her labia becomes. Why they haven't applied this to penises (ie the more sex you have, the more small your dick!) I do not know, but stuff like this makes it very clear how much we (as in the USA) are failing to teach kids proper sex education.
"If you divide the whole world into just enemies and friends, you'll end up destroying everything" --Nausicaa of the Valley of Wind
To jump in with the "forever alone" trend: I don't think I was ever specifically "okay" with forever alone, for me I remember a quite different moment: to stop feeling bad about masturbating.
A lot of the misogynists on the internet seem to be weirdly obsessed with shame over their masturbation habits, joining pacts not to do so and so forth. I don't know where they are getting this from.
An awful lot of religious conservatives believe masturbation is a sin.
Right but if you read a lot of what incels write, they pretty heavily lean towards atheist. Yet when they write up their lists of "I will only date this kind of woman" it frequently includes a wish for a religious woman so that she'll be a virgin. It's weird - it's like they're atheists with a concept of sin all rolled into one. And I'm a religious person, but I would have thought the fact that you don't have to worry about sin anymore would be one of atheism's best selling points.
I think a lot of incels and other internet misogynists come from a fundamentalist religious background but became atheists as they grew up. This gives them the worst of both worlds. They have all the homophobia and misogyny and sexual guilt of the right-wing fundamentalist world without the tempering of the strong sense of community and certainty of salvation that those who remain in the community have.
Posts
Not intimately but I've spoken with a few.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
They tend to be shut-ins with few friends in the physical realm, so you aren't likely to run into them at the pub.
I was surprised to learn that there are femcels too?
Interest correlates poorly with membership and investment, since those two things are both predictors of interest and pageviews.
Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
It's a thing! I experienced quite the prank myself in junior high in front of a bunch of people, and many other jokes afterwards. Honestly I don't know if I've ever recovered and would probably be bewildered or assume a hustle if a woman ever were to hit on me.
There are, but male incels relentlessly attack them so they have to self segregate and heavily mod the areas where the congregate. Or lie about thier gender. There are gay men who consider themselves incels as well, who simply pretend to be heterosexual in order to be part of the community. Many incels appear to have the philosophy that gay men and lesbians don't exist, or rather that what gay men and women do it n the bedroom is "abuse." It's also clear from the way some if them obsess over handsome men's bodies that some of them are deeply in the closet.
You can shake it. You can! Seeking therapy can help, but also just... remembering that people in Jr High and Highschool were children. A 16yr old girl is a child. They do childish hateful things sometimes. You're an adult now, and when you meet adult women they won't behave that way. Grown-ass women with bills and shit do not do this sort of thing. Moreover, if they do, it's because they're still fucking children and you can safely write them off as not worth your time.
Like for me my biggest "becoming an adult" moment was learning to just let shit go, just let it go, it happened, it sucked, but holding on to it like this piece of coal will become a diamond if you squeeze tight enough is just not healthy.
pleasepaypreacher.net
"You can't" is inaccurate and stating it that way is self-righteous, not helpful.
Incels hate themselves. They'll never be happy unless they learn to let go of self-hate.
I feel for the radicalized kids that are taken by this toxic philosophy, but at the same time, the ones that gather on those sites are already lost to me, its a bunch of teens and young adults that despite having all their basic needs met, are waiting and hoping to have a chance to ruin someone elses life, FUCK EM, I have a teenage daughter, if I heard someone refer to her as a femoid, Id beat them to a pulp.
I think society should do an effort to prevent them from reaching that point, maybe promoting easier access to mental health care, campaigns like the ones we have seen for bulling but for broader issues that plague teens and young adults, particularly men, who are brought up on the idea that seeking help is weakness. But once a line is crossed I dont really think they can go back and they should be treated as what they are, people radicalized into a hate group that promotes and cheers for the death and/or suffering of women AND men who are outside their group.
Thats right tough guy, show them that problems and disagreements such as name calling can be resolved with violence.
MWO: Adamski
Yes, I also agree with the "punch a Nazi" phrase, Im sorry I cant be as understanding as you, towards people that think that women who dont fuck with them should die. Maybe some day Ill be an elevated being like you, and please, refrain from the name calling, you DO know that I am upset by it.
Are they wrong though? They have an ideology, a group ethos, and their own group leaders. That Vox article literally have them getting together to share tips on how to commit rape.
We don’t consider KKK not a hate group because some of their members are mentally ill. Why should Incels be different? Because they hate themselves?
I can't remember where I read the advice from - I think it might be the internet archive of the alt.sex FAQ (it's still out there turns out) - but somewhere, I finally internalized the advice that masturbation is having sex with yourself, in a way, and such that you should treat a sexual partner respectfully you should also treat yourself respectfully.
Which, once I properly wrapped my head around, was a revolutionary idea because built right into it is the idea that you should be okay with yourself and your sexuality, and well, makes the entire experience better in every way. I'd mark that as a pretty significant milestone in my own development.
I think escalating to violence solves nothing and entrenches views.
If you are confronted with someone who calls you a Chad or Beta or Cuk or Femoid, etc and you can't argue them down, or speak your piece and walk away, or just ignore them and leave, then it feels like you are ceeding the argument or confrontation by resorting to violence.
MWO: Adamski
Its not an escalation, the dehumanizing term is inherently violent and used by a group that encourages and cheers on the killing of, in this particular case, a loved person. If its a white hooded person calling someone the N word, can you expect the victim to be level headed, can you simply ignore it every time someone attacks you? How far can you realistically take this philosophy?
And its ridiculous to think that retaliation will entrenchen their views, they are already radicalized idolizing a mass murderer, how could they entrench even more?
I understand and respect you for being able to stay level headed and doing the strategically right thing in the situation, for me its a far more personal matter and I honestly wouldnt be able to stay idle if I saw an Incel attacking a loved one (or anyone else, but my original example was about a loved one)
It's not so much a desire to be dismissive, as I can now see as a mature adult that my experiences caused me to view the world in a way that wasn't terribly accurate even though it fit with my internal narrative and perceptions. Luckily that aspect of my life didn't become the sole focus of my self-identity, but I think for many incels, that's exactly what it is.
Metaphorically.
Choose Your Own Chat 1 Choose Your Own Chat 2 Choose Your Own Chat 3
Resorting to physical violence for a verbal assault like beating them to a pull over name calling both ceeds the intellectual argument, and promotes a right makes right mentality that is the antithesis of social justice.
Not even getting into how much this type of attitude plays into women as property and the men in their lives are responsible for guarding them because they can't fight their own battles.
MWO: Adamski
That is the most uncharitable view possible of anything I typed, it just feels as if you are trying to score points and Im not interested in that.
If there is ever a thread about justified violence to break cycles of opression, we could discuss it at lenght in there but its far from a settled topic. I hope passivity works for you, against radicalized terrorists.
A lot of the misogynists on the internet seem to be weirdly obsessed with shame over their masturbation habits, joining pacts not to do so and so forth. I don't know where they are getting this from.
Could be gratification? Like that you can jerk off to please yourself means you aren't fully committed to the level of self hate that a black piller seems to make part an parcel of their lives?
pleasepaypreacher.net
An awful lot of religious conservatives believe masturbation is a sin.
Right but if you read a lot of what incels write, they pretty heavily lean towards atheist. Yet when they write up their lists of "I will only date this kind of woman" it frequently includes a wish for a religious woman so that she'll be a virgin. It's weird - it's like they're atheists with a concept of sin all rolled into one. And I'm a religious person, but I would have thought the fact that you don't have to worry about sin anymore would be one of atheism's best selling points.
Like a lot of hard right idealogies, holding conflicting views is common.
pleasepaypreacher.net
Also: secular popular culture still views masturbation as dirty and embarrassing, even for men, and especially when a person masturbates because they can’t find a sexual partner. cf “the only date he ever had was with his right hand”
I understand what you're saying, but what's inherently wrong with market research? I mean, if, in the most cynical interpretation, this survey leads solely to a dating app that happens to be more inclusive and friendly towards those who suffer from social anxiety or other issues, that might be dissapointing, but it's still not a bad thing.
That said, I filled out the survey, citing my own specific personal experience and told them they can quote me or contact me further if they want.
If she's a virgin, she'll be sexually naive and they won't have to compete with any previous lovers. Theoretically.
...I feel gross just typing that.
In my conservative religious education, one of the reasons given for only ever having sex with one's spouse was the bullshit notion that having multiple partners makes a person crave novelty, which in turn makes one more likely to be unfaithful. Oh, and masturbating is literally cheating on your future spouse, so don't do that either. :rotate:
While this is the probable actual reason why they insist on virginity, their stated version is that the more sex a woman has, the more stretched her labia becomes. Why they haven't applied this to penises (ie the more sex you have, the more small your dick!) I do not know, but stuff like this makes it very clear how much we (as in the USA) are failing to teach kids proper sex education.
I think a lot of incels and other internet misogynists come from a fundamentalist religious background but became atheists as they grew up. This gives them the worst of both worlds. They have all the homophobia and misogyny and sexual guilt of the right-wing fundamentalist world without the tempering of the strong sense of community and certainty of salvation that those who remain in the community have.