I have no fucking idea what you're trying to say with "autistic mode"
You've never seen ghost in the shell? It's a term in sci-fi settings where equipment disables networking capabilities in order to harden itself against cyber attack.
Autism is a condition where individuals have impeded communication skills. The hardware enters a mode where it has impeded communication skills. Hence, autistic mode.
What exactly do you think is wrong? I'm baffled by the backlash. There's no prejudice or condescension in the term. It merely describes the operation of a system according to the dictionary definition of the word. I don't see how it is any different than describing hardware that's been networked in a Master/Slave configuration.
Speaking as a person with autism... It's just fucking uncomfortable to have what's a constant THING in my life reduced to a term to describe a particular mode of operation.
And frankly, not even accurately because autism is a spectrum. I have viewed from one sense, super powers from my autism.
To wit, I'm hyper sensitive to light, noise, texture etc. My senses are dialed way up, basically. These are actually shitty super powers because believe me, when you can hear EVERYTHING a crowds saying it's not a fun time. Instead it contributes to me having horrible problems with my fight/flight reflex being over active because while I might be getting all this extra info, I ceartinly can't fucking process it all.
Actually, perhaps a better point here because I'm also in the bdsm community (surprisingly common for neruodiverse people!). Using master/slave language for computers or similar dosent bother me because participation in that subculture is a choice I've made.
Being autistic is not something I get a choice in. I'm going to spend the rest of my life explaining to people about my hyper sensitivity and how exhausting and complicated that makes this world, and that's just one facet of it.
And i'm already having to do that in a world here autism is used as an insult in some spaces. I'm not really keen on it being used as a seemingly harmless term for something that could be described in any number of ways. Especially when it's reinforcing the idea that we have trouble communicating, rather than the truth if we're not always on the same wavelength lengths or have different perspectives on communication.
3cl1ps3I will build a labyrinth to house the cheeseRegistered Userregular
As someone on the spectrum who constantly sees people on the internet using "sperglord" and "autist" and other variations as insults, I'd just rather stuff not use it for anything other than describing a person on the spectrum, no matter how benign or well-intentioned. There are just too many people using it as a pejorative to separate out the uses that are fine.
What exactly do you think is wrong? I'm baffled by the backlash. There's no prejudice or condescension in the term. It merely describes the operation of a system according to the dictionary definition of the word. I don't see how it is any different than describing hardware that's been networked in a Master/Slave configuration.
Seeing as how a ton of people have said the Master/Slave terminology is also shitty (example, second example), I'm not sure this example helps you very much!
What exactly do you think is wrong? I'm baffled by the backlash. There's no prejudice or condescension in the term. It merely describes the operation of a system according to the dictionary definition of the word. I don't see how it is any different than describing hardware that's been networked in a Master/Slave configuration.
Seeing as how a ton of people have said the Master/Slave terminology is also shitty (example, second example), I'm not sure this example helps you very much!
I have no fucking idea what you're trying to say with "autistic mode"
You've never seen ghost in the shell? It's a term in sci-fi settings where equipment disables networking capabilities in order to harden itself against cyber attack.
Autism is a condition where individuals have impeded communication skills. The hardware enters a mode where it has impeded communication skills. Hence, autistic mode.
I had seen Ghost in the Shell but didn't remember that part. And it's a good thing I didn't, because it's shitty! Or at least super dated.
I don't know the genesis of the term in Ghost in the Shell, but I've always assumed that back when they picked it (and perhaps even today), "autistic" and other related terms weren't used as slurs or insults in Japanese, and so it only ended up awkward in translation.
I don't know the genesis of the term in Ghost in the Shell, but I've always assumed that back when they picked it (and perhaps even today), "autistic" and other related terms weren't used as slurs or insults in Japanese, and so it only ended up awkward in translation.
Ghost in the Shell and cyberpunk as a genre is a rather old concept, GitS being a manga that started way back in 1989. I don't mind people understanding that terms came from a well respected property, but we can also understand that some are severely dated and probably shouldn't be used without HEAVY qualifications, or not at all. There's plenty of other terms or stereotypes from other cyberpunk publications that we would rather not use in modern equivalencies now... because now we should know better.
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-Loki-Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining.Registered Userregular
Or, really, anything else that gets the idea across without an ableist term would work.
That said, I agree with the general idea - one shouldn't be able to use the same hack against difficult/well trained/well equipped enemies as they do against low tier gang members and the like. What's the use of a toolbox if you only use a single tool?
In Cyberpunk, it seems pretty rare that someone goes "full" cyborg due to cyberpsychosis. Unless you're a mercenary or psycho, most people still seem to have organic bits and pieces rather than shells like Kusanagi. Not that that makes any difference for hacking, but it is a difference I noticed in the aesthetics.
In Cyberpunk, it seems pretty rare that someone goes "full" cyborg due to cyberpsychosis. Unless you're a mercenary or psycho, most people still seem to have organic bits and pieces rather than shells like Kusanagi. Not that that makes any difference for hacking, but it is a difference I noticed in the aesthetics.
The difference between the lore in Cyberpunk and GitS is that GitS specifically came up with a procedure to not have to worry about cyberpsychosis. GitS came up with the idea of integrating the brain and nervous system with cyberware on a more direct level, what's referred to as cyberization. People can replace all but about 20% of their brain with cyberware and have it in a shell for the purpose of having it inserted within other bodies as needed. The term Ghost In the Shell is a play on this, a person's Ghost or brain surrounded by a cyberware and metal Shell that can be switched to different bodies as necessary, or moved to different equipment through neural or network links. The only limits are the age and intelligence of the brain itself along with the funding necessary to go along with such a procedure.
It's why the series is less based on the cyber or punk aspects of the genre, though they are certainly there in smaller amounts, and concentrates more on both Transhumanism and Existentialism along with a big chunk of the sociopolitical climate between Japan and its neighbors. It also goes very deep into AI technology and discusses at what threshold does it start to retain its own Ghost. It is the kind of cyberpunk story you get when you concentrate on the story of law enforcement rather than on the resistance, very much like Blade Runner.
In Cyberpunk, it seems pretty rare that someone goes "full" cyborg due to cyberpsychosis. Unless you're a mercenary or psycho, most people still seem to have organic bits and pieces rather than shells like Kusanagi. Not that that makes any difference for hacking, but it is a difference I noticed in the aesthetics.
It’s basically a fringe option. Less because Borgs don’t exist, they’re in a bunch of militaries and industrial branches, but because they cost a small fortune, require you to be in good psychological health and are illegal as heck in most cities.
Which is why they don’t really fit in most 2020 games except as a surprise package Militech is dropping when your gm wants to make it clear it’s time to go.
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BethrynUnhappiness is MandatoryRegistered Userregular
No familiarity with Cyberpunk PnP's hacking, but god I hope it's better in the videogame than decking is in the Shadowrun games.
Which version of Shadowrun decking
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3cl1ps3I will build a labyrinth to house the cheeseRegistered Userregular
Decking in Hong Kong was fairly solid, IMO. And the actual matrix diving in Dragonfall sucked but Decking was at least useful for a lot of stuff, which was nice. Decking in Returns was just baaaaad.
So if full dive is in techie tree, what is in the netrunner one?
From what I've read, basically like an Enchanter from EQ. :razz: Debuffs, CC, probably buffs, taking control of robots/cameras/turrets, hacking enemy optics to make them think their friends are you, even disabling their weapons.
Yeah, they did show it briefly in the 50 minute demo last year when V was fighting the Maelstrom gang. She got access to the network that the entire gang was jacked into. In the demo she blocked the smartgun link so they couldn't fire their weapons, but I'd assume you could do similar things along a wider net or potentially turn all turrets/robots or even fellow gang members against each other. It would also be how you turn off security, potentially hack into their accounts whether data or money, and just generally sow a lot of chaos.
So my second run through this game is definitely as FastJack.
I have no fucking idea what you're trying to say with "autistic mode"
You've never seen ghost in the shell? It's a term in sci-fi settings where equipment disables networking capabilities in order to harden itself against cyber attack.
Autism is a condition where individuals have impeded communication skills. The hardware enters a mode where it has impeded communication skills. Hence, autistic mode.
I had seen Ghost in the Shell but didn't remember that part. And it's a good thing I didn't, because it's shitty! Or at least super dated.
In Ghost in the Shell, there exists two concepts: the first, a more technical one, is the "autistic" system mode employed by mid-to-higher end cyberbrains (people with the most limited degree of cyberization, limited to just comms and interface implants, would probably just call this something like "airplane mode"). Notably, since the whole concept of a cyberbrain is a networked human consciousness rather than "more computing power", a smartphone that is unable to network might be a better metaphor than a computer. "Quarantine" or "Isolation" mode might make more sense of contemporary software, though the story concept dates back before modern internet browsers. I would need to actually review the series to check, but since the series is in Japanese, I believe that the military parlance uses jiko no rather than jihesho--the second, which is effectively the Japanese term for the mental condition, simply isn't as common in speech as the former, "of the self/oneself" originally, but I can't remember off the top of my head. Someone fluent in Japanese, feel free to check that. The choice in English word probably isn't coincidental: "autism" comes from the German "autismus", derived from the Greek "autos" combined with the "state of"--the "state of oneself". That being said, the series uses a lot of English loan words, but I don't recall this being one of them.
Second, the more medical one, is "cyberbrain autism", more technically called "closed-shell syndrome" (heikaku shokogun, disease or syndrome?). It is a variety, though hardly the only version, of cyberbrain autism that manifests itself more in younger people. Namely, it's distinguished from other mental disorders because of the technical causes: the affected are too acclimated, and become too dependent on, their cybercomms and networking abilities, to the point of their other social skills and behaviors clearly suffering (usually manifested as a deep withdrawal from the social contact without cyberbrains, i.e. all other social behavior). If you're not cyberized, you're can't be addicted to networking in the same way (there's a pretty clear distinction from "smartphone addiction", etc.). In the most advanced cases, learned skills in the networked world cause the affected to put up defensive measures and even possibly harm people who might interfere with that access (putting up network barriers leading to dangerous counterbarrer tactics, etc.). Unlike the technical function above, this wasn't really explored in depth in the franchise until the first season of Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex (broadcasted early 2000s). A RF-shielded treatment clinic for extremely advanced cases of the syndrome, with extremely regimented access to broader networks, ended up being the ironic sanctuary of the Laughing Man (sort of--it's complicated). Most, though not all the patients, were recently-cyberized adolescents, a few were adults. Unsurprisingly, this can sometimes lend itself to particularly talented savants--multiple patients at the clinic had complex personae and alter-egos on the 'Net, against clinic rules, and on the permitted side the most talented were actively designing and breaking down complex security barriers for commercial (and other?) use, a task that really couldn't be left up to computers with the same effectiveness, considered a safe outlet for their creative energies (while netting the clinic a profit, since it doesn't seem like patients paid for treatment).
What we call autism still exists (why wouldn't it?), and closed-shell syndrome (to use the more accurate name) can manifest certain comparable behavior characteristics, hence the unofficial term. Besides world building, the series needed to give the condition a formal, distinct name because "autistic mode" in military use was a relatively common tactic used by a variety of parties (also described as "cutting cybercomms," etc.) amid information warfare.
(Source: Me, a Ghost in the Shell expert. Ayuk, ayuk.)
(... the URL bit at the end there is pretty apropos tbh)
the TL;DR is that cyberpsychosis was originally caused by a combination of social prejudice plus badly calibrated interfaces plus physical dysphoria, and not something inherent to getting cybernetics in the first place. I think the edition talked about here is that rather disliked 3rd edition, but I digress. Given how 2077 has looked so far with basically every single person we've seen having SOME cybernetics, the social prejudice likely isn't a thing anymore, and they've likely made advances to mitigate all but the worst depersonalization / dysphoria issues.
Now, I can still imagine certain outfits -- paramilitary, corporate, criminal -- deliberately inducing forms of cyberpsychosis for their own purposes. Like, you give your supersoldier a full cyberbody and then fuck with their interface that causes them to not see their targets as human beings at all, with settings so you get to determine who they do and do not register as human beings... yeah. But not as an inherent "oh no are you human anymore 'cause you got a glass eyeball!????"
Which, like most science fiction, is probably more a reflection on current attitudes, and how those have changed in the last... gosh, thirty years.
I'd still say that even back in the 80s, the best cyberpunk takes were the ones that weren't so much talking about someone losing their humanity because they got cybernetic implants in themselves, but losing their humanity because corporations owned those implants. Or the military. Or whoever. That is to say, it's not the cybernetics themselves that are the problem, it's the system you end up indebted to because of them, the engine they make you a part of. I mean, that to me was a big part of Ghost in the Shell -- can you be your own person if your ability to exist in the world is at the whim of somebody else? If your body is basically only provided to you for you to do a job for somebody else? Like, we already have the modern American dystopia of "I got my legs blown off in a pointless war and now because the VA is garbage I am in horrific medical debt and dependent upon prosthetics, antidepressants, therapy, and probably painkillers to function, and society is shaming me for the therapy and cutting off access to said painkillers. And if I run out of money I'll basically end up homeless on the street like so many veterans."
(to me, the looming potential irrelevance of the cyberpunk genre is more that we're already here, but way less fashionable, and with even less ability to actually fight back against any of this shit.)
I have no fucking idea what you're trying to say with "autistic mode"
You've never seen ghost in the shell? It's a term in sci-fi settings where equipment disables networking capabilities in order to harden itself against cyber attack.
Autism is a condition where individuals have impeded communication skills. The hardware enters a mode where it has impeded communication skills. Hence, autistic mode.
I had seen Ghost in the Shell but didn't remember that part. And it's a good thing I didn't, because it's shitty! Or at least super dated.
In Ghost in the Shell, there exists two concepts: the first, a more technical one, is the "autistic" system mode employed by mid-to-higher end cyberbrains (people with the most limited degree of cyberization, limited to just comms and interface implants, would probably just call this something like "airplane mode"). Notably, since the whole concept of a cyberbrain is a networked human consciousness rather than "more computing power", a smartphone that is unable to network might be a better metaphor than a computer. "Quarantine" or "Isolation" mode might make more sense of contemporary software, though the story concept dates back before modern internet browsers. I would need to actually review the series to check, but since the series is in Japanese, I believe that the military parlance uses jiko no rather than jihesho--the second, which is effectively the Japanese term for the mental condition, simply isn't as common in speech as the former, "of the self/oneself" originally, but I can't remember off the top of my head. Someone fluent in Japanese, feel free to check that. The choice in English word probably isn't coincidental: "autism" comes from the German "autismus", derived from the Greek "autos" combined with the "state of"--the "state of oneself". That being said, the series uses a lot of English loan words, but I don't recall this being one of them.
Second, the more medical one, is "cyberbrain autism", more technically called "closed-shell syndrome" (heikaku shokogun, disease or syndrome?). It is a variety, though hardly the only version, of cyberbrain autism that manifests itself more in younger people. Namely, it's distinguished from other mental disorders because of the technical causes: the affected are too acclimated, and become too dependent on, their cybercomms and networking abilities, to the point of their other social skills and behaviors clearly suffering (usually manifested as a deep withdrawal from the social contact without cyberbrains, i.e. all other social behavior). If you're not cyberized, you're can't be addicted to networking in the same way (there's a pretty clear distinction from "smartphone addiction", etc.). In the most advanced cases, learned skills in the networked world cause the affected to put up defensive measures and even possibly harm people who might interfere with that access (putting up network barriers leading to dangerous counterbarrer tactics, etc.). Unlike the technical function above, this wasn't really explored in depth in the franchise until the first season of Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex (broadcasted early 2000s). A RF-shielded treatment clinic for extremely advanced cases of the syndrome, with extremely regimented access to broader networks, ended up being the ironic sanctuary of the Laughing Man (sort of--it's complicated). Most, though not all the patients, were recently-cyberized adolescents, a few were adults. Unsurprisingly, this can sometimes lend itself to particularly talented savants--multiple patients at the clinic had complex personae and alter-egos on the 'Net, against clinic rules, and on the permitted side the most talented were actively designing and breaking down complex security barriers for commercial (and other?) use, a task that really couldn't be left up to computers with the same effectiveness, considered a safe outlet for their creative energies (while netting the clinic a profit, since it doesn't seem like patients paid for treatment).
What we call autism still exists (why wouldn't it?), and closed-shell syndrome (to use the more accurate name) can manifest certain comparable behavior characteristics, hence the unofficial term. Besides world building, the series needed to give the condition a formal, distinct name because "autistic mode" in military use was a relatively common tactic used by a variety of parties (also described as "cutting cybercomms," etc.) amid information warfare.
(Source: Me, a Ghost in the Shell expert. Ayuk, ayuk.)
I literally though "Ghost in the Shell" was about a "ghost in a machine or something" (or just a cool name) having never seen the movie. I'll have to check it out now.
I have no fucking idea what you're trying to say with "autistic mode"
You've never seen ghost in the shell? It's a term in sci-fi settings where equipment disables networking capabilities in order to harden itself against cyber attack.
Autism is a condition where individuals have impeded communication skills. The hardware enters a mode where it has impeded communication skills. Hence, autistic mode.
I had seen Ghost in the Shell but didn't remember that part. And it's a good thing I didn't, because it's shitty! Or at least super dated.
In Ghost in the Shell, there exists two concepts: the first, a more technical one, is the "autistic" system mode employed by mid-to-higher end cyberbrains (people with the most limited degree of cyberization, limited to just comms and interface implants, would probably just call this something like "airplane mode"). Notably, since the whole concept of a cyberbrain is a networked human consciousness rather than "more computing power", a smartphone that is unable to network might be a better metaphor than a computer. "Quarantine" or "Isolation" mode might make more sense of contemporary software, though the story concept dates back before modern internet browsers. I would need to actually review the series to check, but since the series is in Japanese, I believe that the military parlance uses jiko no rather than jihesho--the second, which is effectively the Japanese term for the mental condition, simply isn't as common in speech as the former, "of the self/oneself" originally, but I can't remember off the top of my head. Someone fluent in Japanese, feel free to check that. The choice in English word probably isn't coincidental: "autism" comes from the German "autismus", derived from the Greek "autos" combined with the "state of"--the "state of oneself". That being said, the series uses a lot of English loan words, but I don't recall this being one of them.
Second, the more medical one, is "cyberbrain autism", more technically called "closed-shell syndrome" (heikaku shokogun, disease or syndrome?). It is a variety, though hardly the only version, of cyberbrain autism that manifests itself more in younger people. Namely, it's distinguished from other mental disorders because of the technical causes: the affected are too acclimated, and become too dependent on, their cybercomms and networking abilities, to the point of their other social skills and behaviors clearly suffering (usually manifested as a deep withdrawal from the social contact without cyberbrains, i.e. all other social behavior). If you're not cyberized, you're can't be addicted to networking in the same way (there's a pretty clear distinction from "smartphone addiction", etc.). In the most advanced cases, learned skills in the networked world cause the affected to put up defensive measures and even possibly harm people who might interfere with that access (putting up network barriers leading to dangerous counterbarrer tactics, etc.). Unlike the technical function above, this wasn't really explored in depth in the franchise until the first season of Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex (broadcasted early 2000s). A RF-shielded treatment clinic for extremely advanced cases of the syndrome, with extremely regimented access to broader networks, ended up being the ironic sanctuary of the Laughing Man (sort of--it's complicated). Most, though not all the patients, were recently-cyberized adolescents, a few were adults. Unsurprisingly, this can sometimes lend itself to particularly talented savants--multiple patients at the clinic had complex personae and alter-egos on the 'Net, against clinic rules, and on the permitted side the most talented were actively designing and breaking down complex security barriers for commercial (and other?) use, a task that really couldn't be left up to computers with the same effectiveness, considered a safe outlet for their creative energies (while netting the clinic a profit, since it doesn't seem like patients paid for treatment).
What we call autism still exists (why wouldn't it?), and closed-shell syndrome (to use the more accurate name) can manifest certain comparable behavior characteristics, hence the unofficial term. Besides world building, the series needed to give the condition a formal, distinct name because "autistic mode" in military use was a relatively common tactic used by a variety of parties (also described as "cutting cybercomms," etc.) amid information warfare.
(Source: Me, a Ghost in the Shell expert. Ayuk, ayuk.)
I literally though "Ghost in the Shell" was about a "ghost in a machine or something" (or just a cool name) having never seen the movie. I'll have to check it out now.
It is extremely good. The movie and TV show are pretty different in plot, though (but talk about the same themes).
I have no fucking idea what you're trying to say with "autistic mode"
You've never seen ghost in the shell? It's a term in sci-fi settings where equipment disables networking capabilities in order to harden itself against cyber attack.
Autism is a condition where individuals have impeded communication skills. The hardware enters a mode where it has impeded communication skills. Hence, autistic mode.
I had seen Ghost in the Shell but didn't remember that part. And it's a good thing I didn't, because it's shitty! Or at least super dated.
In Ghost in the Shell, there exists two concepts: the first, a more technical one, is the "autistic" system mode employed by mid-to-higher end cyberbrains (people with the most limited degree of cyberization, limited to just comms and interface implants, would probably just call this something like "airplane mode"). Notably, since the whole concept of a cyberbrain is a networked human consciousness rather than "more computing power", a smartphone that is unable to network might be a better metaphor than a computer. "Quarantine" or "Isolation" mode might make more sense of contemporary software, though the story concept dates back before modern internet browsers. I would need to actually review the series to check, but since the series is in Japanese, I believe that the military parlance uses jiko no rather than jihesho--the second, which is effectively the Japanese term for the mental condition, simply isn't as common in speech as the former, "of the self/oneself" originally, but I can't remember off the top of my head. Someone fluent in Japanese, feel free to check that. The choice in English word probably isn't coincidental: "autism" comes from the German "autismus", derived from the Greek "autos" combined with the "state of"--the "state of oneself". That being said, the series uses a lot of English loan words, but I don't recall this being one of them.
Second, the more medical one, is "cyberbrain autism", more technically called "closed-shell syndrome" (heikaku shokogun, disease or syndrome?). It is a variety, though hardly the only version, of cyberbrain autism that manifests itself more in younger people. Namely, it's distinguished from other mental disorders because of the technical causes: the affected are too acclimated, and become too dependent on, their cybercomms and networking abilities, to the point of their other social skills and behaviors clearly suffering (usually manifested as a deep withdrawal from the social contact without cyberbrains, i.e. all other social behavior). If you're not cyberized, you're can't be addicted to networking in the same way (there's a pretty clear distinction from "smartphone addiction", etc.). In the most advanced cases, learned skills in the networked world cause the affected to put up defensive measures and even possibly harm people who might interfere with that access (putting up network barriers leading to dangerous counterbarrer tactics, etc.). Unlike the technical function above, this wasn't really explored in depth in the franchise until the first season of Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex (broadcasted early 2000s). A RF-shielded treatment clinic for extremely advanced cases of the syndrome, with extremely regimented access to broader networks, ended up being the ironic sanctuary of the Laughing Man (sort of--it's complicated). Most, though not all the patients, were recently-cyberized adolescents, a few were adults. Unsurprisingly, this can sometimes lend itself to particularly talented savants--multiple patients at the clinic had complex personae and alter-egos on the 'Net, against clinic rules, and on the permitted side the most talented were actively designing and breaking down complex security barriers for commercial (and other?) use, a task that really couldn't be left up to computers with the same effectiveness, considered a safe outlet for their creative energies (while netting the clinic a profit, since it doesn't seem like patients paid for treatment).
What we call autism still exists (why wouldn't it?), and closed-shell syndrome (to use the more accurate name) can manifest certain comparable behavior characteristics, hence the unofficial term. Besides world building, the series needed to give the condition a formal, distinct name because "autistic mode" in military use was a relatively common tactic used by a variety of parties (also described as "cutting cybercomms," etc.) amid information warfare.
(Source: Me, a Ghost in the Shell expert. Ayuk, ayuk.)
I literally though "Ghost in the Shell" was about a "ghost in a machine or something" (or just a cool name) having never seen the movie. I'll have to check it out now.
The original title is Mobile Armored Riot Police (in Japanese)--the first compiled volume of chapters, however, was titled "A Ghost in the Shell" after the in-fiction concept, and English distributors considered that a more poetic (if not necessarily more accurate) title for US distribution.
It's the only anime where you get to watch an earnest, family-man detective recruited from the Metropolitan Police into a quasi-legal clandestine government assassination/hostage rescue division go undercover as a nurse at a treatment clinic for cyberbrain autism, make friends with various young people, and then get to watch him get the crap beat out of himself when they figure out who he actually is.
Joking aside, it's almost universally and internationally acclaimed for a reason. The original 1989/1990 manga, published in the US by Dark Horse(?), is one of the quinessential post-cyberpunk works (thematically distinct from "normal" cyberpunk, particularly in that it examines the situations from positions of authority and political institutions) bar none, hugely influential beyond manga, and is still pretty influential to broader cyberpunk (on top of being sexier, more comedic, and more irreverent). Mamoru Oshii's 1995 film was unusually successful and influential in the United States, surpassing the likes of Akira, in a time where anime was still a novel "genre", and is what a lot of American audiences are familiar with, but the situation I described is exclusive to the television series (and associated film) Stand Alone Complex, directed by Kenji Kamiyama (who is comedically aloof and unflappable in person), which is deviates much less from the original novel and is much more politically and culturally complex, rather than focusing more exclusively on questions of transhumanism and the self like the film does. It's among a few franchises influential enough to feature multiple distinct incarnations and interpretations, each with a distinct creative vision, which is relatively uncommon in anime (where things are seldom remade more than once, though they often get sequels). If the above interested you, the TV series would be where to go, though it is arguably less "punk" than the Oshii film.
The Dreamworks film from 2016, which borrows heavily from the Oshii film in art direction, style, and specific themes, features Scarlet Johannsson and isn't good.
I'm gonna be that guy and say that Stand-Alone Complex (and it's follow up, 2nd Gig) are actually a better overall story and exploration of a (post) cyberpunk setting than the Oshii film, even though the film is a more faithful adaptation of a major storyline from the original manga. I'll go even further and say the original manga has a lot of problems with it, actually!
In Cyberpunk, it seems pretty rare that someone goes "full" cyborg due to cyberpsychosis. Unless you're a mercenary or psycho, most people still seem to have organic bits and pieces rather than shells like Kusanagi. Not that that makes any difference for hacking, but it is a difference I noticed in the aesthetics.
The difference between the lore in Cyberpunk and GitS is that GitS specifically came up with a procedure to not have to worry about cyberpsychosis. GitS came up with the idea of integrating the brain and nervous system with cyberware on a more direct level, what's referred to as cyberization. People can replace all but about 20% of their brain with cyberware and have it in a shell for the purpose of having it inserted within other bodies as needed. The term Ghost In the Shell is a play on this, a person's Ghost or brain surrounded by a cyberware and metal Shell that can be switched to different bodies as necessary, or moved to different equipment through neural or network links. The only limits are the age and intelligence of the brain itself along with the funding necessary to go along with such a procedure.
The very first episode of Ghost in the Shell: Standalone Complex deals with this. It's been a while since I've seen the episode, but the gist is that a Japanese politician is going to sell military secrets and attempts to get by security by staging a massacre, where his body is killed, and has his brain case implanted into the body of a woman.
I liked the show (both seasons of it) a lot more than the 1995 film. For one, due to the nature of it being a show, the characters get fleshed out more. But it also feels more... natural? The movie is very much philosophy wrapped in an anime candy coating. The show dives into how things work, how that affects the nature of a person in more mundane ways, and then deals with the notion of ideas/information on a cultural level. But the road from "Here's this futuristic world" to "let's talk about how people think they actually know things, especially when, in certain cases, there's no First Cause for an idea" is a lot more gradual than how the film jumps from moment to moment.
I haven't seen the live action film, but from everything I've read it seems like they more or less nailed the look of the franchise while absolutely failing to grasp the ideas within. ScarJo's character and her arc, specifically, is anathema to the 'real' series.
I'm gonna be that guy and say that Stand-Alone Complex (and it's follow up, 2nd Gig) are actually a better overall story and exploration of a (post) cyberpunk setting than the Oshii film, even though the film is a more faithful adaptation of a major storyline from the original manga. I'll go even further and say the original manga has a lot of problems with it, actually!
Yeah I can agree with this. I fucking love the film too though.
edit- In regards to Cyberpunk cyber-psychosis Outstar has a video breaking the lore down.
I'm gonna be that guy and say that Stand-Alone Complex (and it's follow up, 2nd Gig) are actually a better overall story and exploration of a (post) cyberpunk setting than the Oshii film, even though the film is a more faithful adaptation of a major storyline from the original manga. I'll go even further and say the original manga has a lot of problems with it, actually!
I haven't read the manga, but I very much agree the two series are a lot better than the movie. The original movie is perhaps completely fine if you're already well-versed in that particular setting; it seems a decent cross-section of the material, but there's a lot of material so things get glazed on pretty thinly.
The series has far, far more room to really dig into concepts of self, humanity, and the cost of both interacting with advancing technology. It also has loads of great action bits and cybernetic stuff, and it gets a lot of room to actually build and develop the story. Overall, it actually feels a lot more like an actual law enforcement investigation, with the investigation swinging direction based on important clues. The conclusions are rather more bullet-based, but hey, there's a reason Section 9 isn't a police unit.
And if nothing else, both the series and the show portray a humanity that, yes, is still struggling with itself, but has moved into the future and improved in some ways without utterly destroying itself. It's a different world, but not in the sense of being a utopia or a dystopia. It just... is.
One of the funnier (black humor) parts in one of the stand alone complex series was when an old lover got rather obsessed over the teams sniper.
And decided to make herself a perfect copy of his cybernetic body and...
Put her brain in it.
After some murder mysteries, detective work, and a fight scene, the team now has one dead sniper, one alive sniper, and nobody knows which of them is which.
So they give the dead one to the police as the murderer they had been looking for, and keep the live one and when asked which one died basicly go "who cares, got a <snipers name>"
Humor aside, the series sometimes goes pretty deep (for an action series) about the nature of identity (in a world where memories can be edited like video footage), though i admit it sometimes gets pretty navel gazy.
Despite being over 15 (!!)years old now, the series still feels relevant. I rewatched it last year and it deals with themes like warentless surveillance, failing social care networks, and refugee crises.
One of the funnier (black humor) parts in one of the stand alone complex series was when an old lover got rather obsessed over the teams sniper.
And decided to make herself a perfect copy of his cybernetic body and...
Put her brain in it.
After some murder mysteries, detective work, and a fight scene, the team now has one dead sniper, one alive sniper, and nobody knows which of them is which.
So they give the dead one to the police as the murderer they had been looking for, and keep the live one and when asked which one died basicly go "who cares, got a <snipers name>"
Humor aside, the series sometimes goes pretty deep (for an action series) about the nature of identity (in a world where memories can be edited like video footage), though i admit it sometimes gets pretty navel gazy.
This particularly eerie chapter in 2nd GIG was actually not about Saitou (the Sniper--get it? "SIGHT-O"? Harhar) but Pazu, the team's resident ex-mobster-looking covert investigator, a role he shared with Togusa (who is much more wholesome looking, and was sent to the clinic to get beat up).
If you look carefully, you can actually see in the subsequent knife-fight that the original Pazu from the beginning of the episode is indeed the survivor, and the duplicate is not. Section 9 would also have some more elaborate forensics that could tell the difference between to two, but at the moment, those would not be accessible.
Sasquatch is the leader of the Animals – a gang from west Pacifica known for their brutality and fascination with everything corporeal. But don’t let their looks fool you. Clever, professional and efficient, they are no ordinary thugs.
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You're going to have to stop digging this hole.
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And frankly, not even accurately because autism is a spectrum. I have viewed from one sense, super powers from my autism.
To wit, I'm hyper sensitive to light, noise, texture etc. My senses are dialed way up, basically. These are actually shitty super powers because believe me, when you can hear EVERYTHING a crowds saying it's not a fun time. Instead it contributes to me having horrible problems with my fight/flight reflex being over active because while I might be getting all this extra info, I ceartinly can't fucking process it all.
Actually, perhaps a better point here because I'm also in the bdsm community (surprisingly common for neruodiverse people!). Using master/slave language for computers or similar dosent bother me because participation in that subculture is a choice I've made.
Being autistic is not something I get a choice in. I'm going to spend the rest of my life explaining to people about my hyper sensitivity and how exhausting and complicated that makes this world, and that's just one facet of it.
And i'm already having to do that in a world here autism is used as an insult in some spaces. I'm not really keen on it being used as a seemingly harmless term for something that could be described in any number of ways. Especially when it's reinforcing the idea that we have trouble communicating, rather than the truth if we're not always on the same wavelength lengths or have different perspectives on communication.
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I had seen Ghost in the Shell but didn't remember that part. And it's a good thing I didn't, because it's shitty! Or at least super dated.
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Ghost in the Shell and cyberpunk as a genre is a rather old concept, GitS being a manga that started way back in 1989. I don't mind people understanding that terms came from a well respected property, but we can also understand that some are severely dated and probably shouldn't be used without HEAVY qualifications, or not at all. There's plenty of other terms or stereotypes from other cyberpunk publications that we would rather not use in modern equivalencies now... because now we should know better.
They could literally just use ‘safe mode’.
"Switch to LAN"
"Go analogue"
Or, really, anything else that gets the idea across without an ableist term would work.
That said, I agree with the general idea - one shouldn't be able to use the same hack against difficult/well trained/well equipped enemies as they do against low tier gang members and the like. What's the use of a toolbox if you only use a single tool?
The difference between the lore in Cyberpunk and GitS is that GitS specifically came up with a procedure to not have to worry about cyberpsychosis. GitS came up with the idea of integrating the brain and nervous system with cyberware on a more direct level, what's referred to as cyberization. People can replace all but about 20% of their brain with cyberware and have it in a shell for the purpose of having it inserted within other bodies as needed. The term Ghost In the Shell is a play on this, a person's Ghost or brain surrounded by a cyberware and metal Shell that can be switched to different bodies as necessary, or moved to different equipment through neural or network links. The only limits are the age and intelligence of the brain itself along with the funding necessary to go along with such a procedure.
It's why the series is less based on the cyber or punk aspects of the genre, though they are certainly there in smaller amounts, and concentrates more on both Transhumanism and Existentialism along with a big chunk of the sociopolitical climate between Japan and its neighbors. It also goes very deep into AI technology and discusses at what threshold does it start to retain its own Ghost. It is the kind of cyberpunk story you get when you concentrate on the story of law enforcement rather than on the resistance, very much like Blade Runner.
It’s basically a fringe option. Less because Borgs don’t exist, they’re in a bunch of militaries and industrial branches, but because they cost a small fortune, require you to be in good psychological health and are illegal as heck in most cities.
Which is why they don’t really fit in most 2020 games except as a surprise package Militech is dropping when your gm wants to make it clear it’s time to go.
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Too soon, too soon
In Ghost in the Shell, there exists two concepts: the first, a more technical one, is the "autistic" system mode employed by mid-to-higher end cyberbrains (people with the most limited degree of cyberization, limited to just comms and interface implants, would probably just call this something like "airplane mode"). Notably, since the whole concept of a cyberbrain is a networked human consciousness rather than "more computing power", a smartphone that is unable to network might be a better metaphor than a computer. "Quarantine" or "Isolation" mode might make more sense of contemporary software, though the story concept dates back before modern internet browsers. I would need to actually review the series to check, but since the series is in Japanese, I believe that the military parlance uses jiko no rather than jihesho--the second, which is effectively the Japanese term for the mental condition, simply isn't as common in speech as the former, "of the self/oneself" originally, but I can't remember off the top of my head. Someone fluent in Japanese, feel free to check that. The choice in English word probably isn't coincidental: "autism" comes from the German "autismus", derived from the Greek "autos" combined with the "state of"--the "state of oneself". That being said, the series uses a lot of English loan words, but I don't recall this being one of them.
Second, the more medical one, is "cyberbrain autism", more technically called "closed-shell syndrome" (heikaku shokogun, disease or syndrome?). It is a variety, though hardly the only version, of cyberbrain autism that manifests itself more in younger people. Namely, it's distinguished from other mental disorders because of the technical causes: the affected are too acclimated, and become too dependent on, their cybercomms and networking abilities, to the point of their other social skills and behaviors clearly suffering (usually manifested as a deep withdrawal from the social contact without cyberbrains, i.e. all other social behavior). If you're not cyberized, you're can't be addicted to networking in the same way (there's a pretty clear distinction from "smartphone addiction", etc.). In the most advanced cases, learned skills in the networked world cause the affected to put up defensive measures and even possibly harm people who might interfere with that access (putting up network barriers leading to dangerous counterbarrer tactics, etc.). Unlike the technical function above, this wasn't really explored in depth in the franchise until the first season of Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex (broadcasted early 2000s). A RF-shielded treatment clinic for extremely advanced cases of the syndrome, with extremely regimented access to broader networks, ended up being the ironic sanctuary of the Laughing Man (sort of--it's complicated). Most, though not all the patients, were recently-cyberized adolescents, a few were adults. Unsurprisingly, this can sometimes lend itself to particularly talented savants--multiple patients at the clinic had complex personae and alter-egos on the 'Net, against clinic rules, and on the permitted side the most talented were actively designing and breaking down complex security barriers for commercial (and other?) use, a task that really couldn't be left up to computers with the same effectiveness, considered a safe outlet for their creative energies (while netting the clinic a profit, since it doesn't seem like patients paid for treatment).
What we call autism still exists (why wouldn't it?), and closed-shell syndrome (to use the more accurate name) can manifest certain comparable behavior characteristics, hence the unofficial term. Besides world building, the series needed to give the condition a formal, distinct name because "autistic mode" in military use was a relatively common tactic used by a variety of parties (also described as "cutting cybercomms," etc.) amid information warfare.
(Source: Me, a Ghost in the Shell expert. Ayuk, ayuk.)
https://prokopetz.tumblr.com/post/185522825072/i-realise-im-probably-reaching-into-a-bear-trap
(... the URL bit at the end there is pretty apropos tbh)
the TL;DR is that cyberpsychosis was originally caused by a combination of social prejudice plus badly calibrated interfaces plus physical dysphoria, and not something inherent to getting cybernetics in the first place. I think the edition talked about here is that rather disliked 3rd edition, but I digress. Given how 2077 has looked so far with basically every single person we've seen having SOME cybernetics, the social prejudice likely isn't a thing anymore, and they've likely made advances to mitigate all but the worst depersonalization / dysphoria issues.
Now, I can still imagine certain outfits -- paramilitary, corporate, criminal -- deliberately inducing forms of cyberpsychosis for their own purposes. Like, you give your supersoldier a full cyberbody and then fuck with their interface that causes them to not see their targets as human beings at all, with settings so you get to determine who they do and do not register as human beings... yeah. But not as an inherent "oh no are you human anymore 'cause you got a glass eyeball!????"
https://podcast.tidalwavegames.com/
I'd still say that even back in the 80s, the best cyberpunk takes were the ones that weren't so much talking about someone losing their humanity because they got cybernetic implants in themselves, but losing their humanity because corporations owned those implants. Or the military. Or whoever. That is to say, it's not the cybernetics themselves that are the problem, it's the system you end up indebted to because of them, the engine they make you a part of. I mean, that to me was a big part of Ghost in the Shell -- can you be your own person if your ability to exist in the world is at the whim of somebody else? If your body is basically only provided to you for you to do a job for somebody else? Like, we already have the modern American dystopia of "I got my legs blown off in a pointless war and now because the VA is garbage I am in horrific medical debt and dependent upon prosthetics, antidepressants, therapy, and probably painkillers to function, and society is shaming me for the therapy and cutting off access to said painkillers. And if I run out of money I'll basically end up homeless on the street like so many veterans."
(to me, the looming potential irrelevance of the cyberpunk genre is more that we're already here, but way less fashionable, and with even less ability to actually fight back against any of this shit.)
https://podcast.tidalwavegames.com/
I literally though "Ghost in the Shell" was about a "ghost in a machine or something" (or just a cool name) having never seen the movie. I'll have to check it out now.
It is extremely good. The movie and TV show are pretty different in plot, though (but talk about the same themes).
https://podcast.tidalwavegames.com/
The original title is Mobile Armored Riot Police (in Japanese)--the first compiled volume of chapters, however, was titled "A Ghost in the Shell" after the in-fiction concept, and English distributors considered that a more poetic (if not necessarily more accurate) title for US distribution.
It's the only anime where you get to watch an earnest, family-man detective recruited from the Metropolitan Police into a quasi-legal clandestine government assassination/hostage rescue division go undercover as a nurse at a treatment clinic for cyberbrain autism, make friends with various young people, and then get to watch him get the crap beat out of himself when they figure out who he actually is.
Joking aside, it's almost universally and internationally acclaimed for a reason. The original 1989/1990 manga, published in the US by Dark Horse(?), is one of the quinessential post-cyberpunk works (thematically distinct from "normal" cyberpunk, particularly in that it examines the situations from positions of authority and political institutions) bar none, hugely influential beyond manga, and is still pretty influential to broader cyberpunk (on top of being sexier, more comedic, and more irreverent). Mamoru Oshii's 1995 film was unusually successful and influential in the United States, surpassing the likes of Akira, in a time where anime was still a novel "genre", and is what a lot of American audiences are familiar with, but the situation I described is exclusive to the television series (and associated film) Stand Alone Complex, directed by Kenji Kamiyama (who is comedically aloof and unflappable in person), which is deviates much less from the original novel and is much more politically and culturally complex, rather than focusing more exclusively on questions of transhumanism and the self like the film does. It's among a few franchises influential enough to feature multiple distinct incarnations and interpretations, each with a distinct creative vision, which is relatively uncommon in anime (where things are seldom remade more than once, though they often get sequels). If the above interested you, the TV series would be where to go, though it is arguably less "punk" than the Oshii film.
The Dreamworks film from 2016, which borrows heavily from the Oshii film in art direction, style, and specific themes, features Scarlet Johannsson and isn't good.
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The very first episode of Ghost in the Shell: Standalone Complex deals with this. It's been a while since I've seen the episode, but the gist is that a Japanese politician is going to sell military secrets and attempts to get by security by staging a massacre, where his body is killed, and has his brain case implanted into the body of a woman.
I liked the show (both seasons of it) a lot more than the 1995 film. For one, due to the nature of it being a show, the characters get fleshed out more. But it also feels more... natural? The movie is very much philosophy wrapped in an anime candy coating. The show dives into how things work, how that affects the nature of a person in more mundane ways, and then deals with the notion of ideas/information on a cultural level. But the road from "Here's this futuristic world" to "let's talk about how people think they actually know things, especially when, in certain cases, there's no First Cause for an idea" is a lot more gradual than how the film jumps from moment to moment.
I haven't seen the live action film, but from everything I've read it seems like they more or less nailed the look of the franchise while absolutely failing to grasp the ideas within. ScarJo's character and her arc, specifically, is anathema to the 'real' series.
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These were actually in the original manga, though the mini "Fuchikoma" got more focus than the larger main battle tanks.
Yeah I can agree with this. I fucking love the film too though.
edit- In regards to Cyberpunk cyber-psychosis Outstar has a video breaking the lore down.
I haven't read the manga, but I very much agree the two series are a lot better than the movie. The original movie is perhaps completely fine if you're already well-versed in that particular setting; it seems a decent cross-section of the material, but there's a lot of material so things get glazed on pretty thinly.
The series has far, far more room to really dig into concepts of self, humanity, and the cost of both interacting with advancing technology. It also has loads of great action bits and cybernetic stuff, and it gets a lot of room to actually build and develop the story. Overall, it actually feels a lot more like an actual law enforcement investigation, with the investigation swinging direction based on important clues. The conclusions are rather more bullet-based, but hey, there's a reason Section 9 isn't a police unit.
And if nothing else, both the series and the show portray a humanity that, yes, is still struggling with itself, but has moved into the future and improved in some ways without utterly destroying itself. It's a different world, but not in the sense of being a utopia or a dystopia. It just... is.
And decided to make herself a perfect copy of his cybernetic body and...
After some murder mysteries, detective work, and a fight scene, the team now has one dead sniper, one alive sniper, and nobody knows which of them is which.
So they give the dead one to the police as the murderer they had been looking for, and keep the live one and when asked which one died basicly go "who cares, got a <snipers name>"
Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
This particularly eerie chapter in 2nd GIG was actually not about Saitou (the Sniper--get it? "SIGHT-O"? Harhar) but Pazu, the team's resident ex-mobster-looking covert investigator, a role he shared with Togusa (who is much more wholesome looking, and was sent to the clinic to get beat up).