JacobkoshGamble a stamp.I can show you how to be a real man!Moderatormod
One thing I have kind of mixed feelings about with Wrath of Khan is that the supermen in "Space Seed" were a shockingly diverse crowd, especially for 1966. Many shades of black and brown, several women; they were absolutely meant to represent a ton of ethnicities and nationalities.
The ones in Khan are all blond surfer dudes. Apparently that's something Meyer consciously chose to do, to evoke Aryans and all those associations, but...eh. To me, that seems like a (minor) miscalculation.Wall to wall buff Aryan dudes is the norm for Hollywood movies, not a thing that'll make me go "hmm yes, Nazis."
Also, they're all like 20. Why is Khan the only one who aged?!
Random Discovery character thoughts, curious if people had the same reactions:
* I love Michelle Yeoh, and she does the best she can with what she's given, but her character belongs on SG-1.
This is such a perfect way to describe Yeohs character. She'd make a good Goa'uld or other antagonistic character they had to work with. Imagine we'd got that character instead of RepliCarter or whatever season 9 and 10 was about.
Plus Michelle Yeoh could take Anubis.
+7
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Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
One thing I have kind of mixed feelings about with Wrath of Khan is that the supermen in "Space Seed" were a shockingly diverse crowd, especially for 1966. Many shades of black and brown, several women; they were absolutely meant to represent a ton of ethnicities and nationalities.
The ones in Khan are all blond surfer dudes. Apparently that's something Meyer consciously chose to do, to evoke Aryans and all those associations, but...eh. To me, that seems like a (minor) miscalculation.Wall to wall buff Aryan dudes is the norm for Hollywood movies, not a thing that'll make me go "hmm yes, Nazis."
Also, they're all like 20. Why is Khan the only one who aged?!
I've wondered about this and the best I can come up with is that the movie might be vaguely implying that the planet was so lethal that it killed all the older people except Khan and all that's left are children survivors. Apparently it's only 15 years between in the setting between Khan's exile and the movie (yes, I had to look that up), so either there would've been kids taken with them or they were born on the planet and matured quickly (which wouldn't be a crazy thing, seeing as they're all genetically engineered so it would be a waste of time to spend twenty-odd years reaching total physical maturity).
Random Discovery character thoughts, curious if people had the same reactions:
* I love Michelle Yeoh, and she does the best she can with what she's given, but her character belongs on SG-1.
This is such a perfect way to describe Yeohs character. She'd make a good Goa'uld or other antagonistic character they had to work with. Imagine we'd got that character instead of RepliCarter or whatever season 9 and 10 was about.
Plus Michelle Yeoh could take Anubis.
I just imagined her sharing a scene with Cliff Simon's Baal and now I need new pants.
One thing I have kind of mixed feelings about with Wrath of Khan is that the supermen in "Space Seed" were a shockingly diverse crowd, especially for 1966. Many shades of black and brown, several women; they were absolutely meant to represent a ton of ethnicities and nationalities.
The ones in Khan are all blond surfer dudes. Apparently that's something Meyer consciously chose to do, to evoke Aryans and all those associations, but...eh. To me, that seems like a (minor) miscalculation.Wall to wall buff Aryan dudes is the norm for Hollywood movies, not a thing that'll make me go "hmm yes, Nazis."
Also, they're all like 20. Why is Khan the only one who aged?!
I've wondered about this and the best I can come up with is that the movie might be vaguely implying that the planet was so lethal that it killed all the older people except Khan and all that's left are children survivors. Apparently it's only 15 years between in the setting between Khan's exile and the movie (yes, I had to look that up), so either there would've been kids taken with them or they were born on the planet and matured quickly (which wouldn't be a crazy thing, seeing as they're all genetically engineered so it would be a waste of time to spend twenty-odd years reaching total physical maturity).
I know he’s not, but my headcanon has always been that Joachim is Khan’s son.
Also, since Wrath of Khan’s sheer brilliance always serves to highlight how fucking awful Into Darkness was, I had a thought.
They should’ve made Khan an anti-villain who is forced to ally with Kirk. That would’ve done something other than poorly copy WoK.
Make his character arc dealing with waking up in a utopia. In many ways, the Federation is everything he was trying to achieve, and it was made without brutal tyranny or subjugation. Most importantly, it was done without him.
Then, at the end, he joins the crew. The Kelvin movies replicated the TOS dynamic—imagine that with a teammate they don’t trust and is pretty much the opposite of the Federation ideal.
The Moby Dick thing is great because ignoring all metaphor, the difficulty in hunting a whale is that they move in three dimensions whilst you’re restricted to two.
Also yes as has been said many times Wrath of Khan is a superb movie where every nut and bolt and wheel is placed just so and everything works exactly as intended.
Triple post but HOLY SHIT on a total whim I just googled to see if anywhere was putting it on the big screen any time soon and now I have a ticket to see it again in two weeks.
Also, since Wrath of Khan’s sheer brilliance always serves to highlight how fucking awful Into Darkness was, I had a thought.
They should’ve made Khan an anti-villain who is forced to ally with Kirk. That would’ve done something other than poorly copy WoK.
Make his character arc dealing with waking up in a utopia. In many ways, the Federation is everything he was trying to achieve, and it was made without brutal tyranny or subjugation. Most importantly, it was done without him.
Then, at the end, he joins the crew. The Kelvin movies replicated the TOS dynamic—imagine that with a teammate they don’t trust and is pretty much the opposite of the Federation ideal.
When I first saw the movie, it felt like that's how they were going at first, and I remember even thinking "ohh neat, they're cribbing WoK but then flipping it on its head and making them allies instead of enemies, that's pretty damned cool, it almost excuses all the weirdness at the beginning of the movie!" Then they ruined it. *sigh*
"Let's take a look at the scores! The girls are at the square root of Pi, while the boys are still at a crudely drawn picture of a duck. Clearly, it's anybody's game!"
Probably got tutored by snooty folk once his brain was ready for it.
+14
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daveNYCWhy universe hate Waspinator?Registered Userregular
Wrath of Khan is going to be showing it town in March with the Shatner in tow for what will probably be a disturbing talk about his career and a Q&A. WoK on the big screen will be worth it though.
The thing I like about WoK is that everything about the production screamed train wreck. The Reliant looks the way it does because the producer looked at the design drawing upside down. Nimoy didn't want to be in the movie until one of the early drafts involved killing him off. Meyers wrote the actual shooting script in 12 days involving a lot of copy-paste of chunks from the earlier versions. The uniforms were partially recycled from the Motion Picture ones, same with the sets. So many things that seem completely half-assed, but the whole thing comes together because there's a good script, a cast with chemistry, and a director who was willing to work Shatner to exhaustion in order to get the scenes he wanted.
Like everyone else I could write paragraphs about all the things wrong with Into Darkness and what I would have done instead. I'll limit it to two things. Having the comically evil Admiral as the bad guy followed by Khan actually being the bad guy just didn't work. Especially since Khan, for all his murderous dickishness, was far more sympathetic in his motivations than the Admiral. The other thing was the gratuitous T&A scene of Alice Eve changing. I know that Kirk is still a immature idiot in the film, but its damning that Starship Troopers is still the gold standard for people not being idiots about nudity situations in the workplace.
Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
That shot of Eve was just jarringly stupid and the most obvious bit of male gaze pandering I can remember from the last few years. How can the film be less progressive about its characters than the original from 35 years ago?
"The only real politics I knew was that if a guy liked Hitler, I’d beat the stuffing out of him and that would be it." -- Jack Kirby
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knitdanIn ur baseKillin ur guysRegistered Userregular
edited November 2019
What could be more appropriate for Halloween than a film about a simple country doctor who finally manages to rid himself of his inhuman nemesis, only for said nemesis to use the the doctor’s body as a horcrux at the last minute?
That’s right I’m watching Wrath of Khan
Thanks Khan thread
knitdan on
“I was quick when I came in here, I’m twice as quick now”
-Indiana Solo, runner of blades
Accents are a tricky thing. My kid who has two native languages has 2 accents in each language, depending on who he is talking to. Re: Julian, his accent may be more a matter of who he grew up around. 2nd generation immigrants pretty commonly have a 'native' accent vs their parent's foreign ones.
+4
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knitdanIn ur baseKillin ur guysRegistered Userregular
Always love the Nog/Jake episodes where they have to perform an elaborate series of fetch quests to get one specific thing they want.
“I was quick when I came in here, I’m twice as quick now”
-Indiana Solo, runner of blades
+10
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knitdanIn ur baseKillin ur guysRegistered Userregular
Season Finale of DS9 season 5
If I didn’t already know the ultimate fate of a particular character, they just said something in the episode that all but guarantees they aren’t long for this world.
“I was quick when I came in here, I’m twice as quick now”
-Indiana Solo, runner of blades
Accents are a tricky thing. My kid who has two native languages has 2 accents in each language, depending on who he is talking to. Re: Julian, his accent may be more a matter of who he grew up around. 2nd generation immigrants pretty commonly have a 'native' accent vs their parent's foreign ones.
One of my uncles moved to Australia from Scotland when he was a kid. Has a perfectly completely normal Australian accent. Then you hear him talk to his parents on the phone and this Scottish accent appears out of nowhere. Czech-Australian neighbours are the same way.
Everyone who has a regional accent in the UK can do a RP accent.
It's called your phone voice and you use it when dealing with important people on the phone because then they don't think you're a provincial dunce. Job interviews and appearing in court too probably.
Less of a thing these days, mind, I wouldn't bother so much any more. Definitely a big thing in the past, because people got discriminated against for having a regional accent. If your Mum has a regional accent she probably doesn't answer the phone in it still, for example.
It's why for example it annoys me still that most British actors in non-British media are almost always vair vair well spoken.
Good thing about Game of Thrones, it largely featured northern accents, in an international bit of media. You don't usually get that.
You can thank the BBC for that. Going back to the inception of radio, they required all presenters to practice "received pronunciation" in broadcasts. It filtered down into all forms of media. Pretty much anyone from the UK you see on TV, in movies or hear on the radio uses received pronunciation because it's just the way things are done. It's only in the last decade that RP's stranglehold on popular media has waned. It's becoming more common for regional presenters to preserve their regional accents. You can thank GoT for bringing regional accents into popular consciousness.
CambiataCommander ShepardThe likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered Userregular
I sincerely love conversation about regional accents, so thank you for this. I had no idea British people had a "phone voice." I also love both the northern and southern UK accents.
"If you divide the whole world into just enemies and friends, you'll end up destroying everything" --Nausicaa of the Valley of Wind
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The ones in Khan are all blond surfer dudes. Apparently that's something Meyer consciously chose to do, to evoke Aryans and all those associations, but...eh. To me, that seems like a (minor) miscalculation.Wall to wall buff Aryan dudes is the norm for Hollywood movies, not a thing that'll make me go "hmm yes, Nazis."
Also, they're all like 20. Why is Khan the only one who aged?!
Things Trek has taught me:
When your captain starts quoting Moby Dick, it's time to look for the escape pods.
:mashes agree like 30 times:
This is such a perfect way to describe Yeohs character. She'd make a good Goa'uld or other antagonistic character they had to work with. Imagine we'd got that character instead of RepliCarter or whatever season 9 and 10 was about.
Plus Michelle Yeoh could take Anubis.
I've wondered about this and the best I can come up with is that the movie might be vaguely implying that the planet was so lethal that it killed all the older people except Khan and all that's left are children survivors. Apparently it's only 15 years between in the setting between Khan's exile and the movie (yes, I had to look that up), so either there would've been kids taken with them or they were born on the planet and matured quickly (which wouldn't be a crazy thing, seeing as they're all genetically engineered so it would be a waste of time to spend twenty-odd years reaching total physical maturity).
I just imagined her sharing a scene with Cliff Simon's Baal and now I need new pants.
I know he’s not, but my headcanon has always been that Joachim is Khan’s son.
Also, since Wrath of Khan’s sheer brilliance always serves to highlight how fucking awful Into Darkness was, I had a thought.
Make his character arc dealing with waking up in a utopia. In many ways, the Federation is everything he was trying to achieve, and it was made without brutal tyranny or subjugation. Most importantly, it was done without him.
Then, at the end, he joins the crew. The Kelvin movies replicated the TOS dynamic—imagine that with a teammate they don’t trust and is pretty much the opposite of the Federation ideal.
Spock’s Brain is very silly but not actually as bad as, say, Code of Honour or some of the truly boring Voyager episodes I snored through.
EDIT: It’s worth it just for the moment McCoy looks up from reattaching Spock’s brain and says in horror what the FUCK am I doing?
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Law and Order ≠ Justice
ACNH Island Isla Cero: DA-3082-2045-4142
Captain of the SES Comptroller of the State
Wow, that would fit so damned well with the existing movie! New headcanon accepted, thank you!
Them making him straight up evil just made the movie boring.
-Indiana Solo, runner of blades
IMO, Quisling is a closer analog.
Law and Order ≠ Justice
ACNH Island Isla Cero: DA-3082-2045-4142
Captain of the SES Comptroller of the State
Also, how did Bashir end up with a posh British accent when his mother has an undefined “immigrant” accent and his father has a lower-class accent
-Indiana Solo, runner of blades
Genetic manipulations at age 7 does craaaaaayzy things.
-Indiana Solo, runner of blades
The thing I like about WoK is that everything about the production screamed train wreck. The Reliant looks the way it does because the producer looked at the design drawing upside down. Nimoy didn't want to be in the movie until one of the early drafts involved killing him off. Meyers wrote the actual shooting script in 12 days involving a lot of copy-paste of chunks from the earlier versions. The uniforms were partially recycled from the Motion Picture ones, same with the sets. So many things that seem completely half-assed, but the whole thing comes together because there's a good script, a cast with chemistry, and a director who was willing to work Shatner to exhaustion in order to get the scenes he wanted.
Like everyone else I could write paragraphs about all the things wrong with Into Darkness and what I would have done instead. I'll limit it to two things. Having the comically evil Admiral as the bad guy followed by Khan actually being the bad guy just didn't work. Especially since Khan, for all his murderous dickishness, was far more sympathetic in his motivations than the Admiral. The other thing was the gratuitous T&A scene of Alice Eve changing. I know that Kirk is still a immature idiot in the film, but its damning that Starship Troopers is still the gold standard for people not being idiots about nudity situations in the workplace.
Choose Your Own Chat 1 Choose Your Own Chat 2 Choose Your Own Chat 3
Oh, easy answer, he grew up in France.
I spit out my coffee
-Indiana Solo, runner of blades
His accent was genetically engineered.
"The only real politics I knew was that if a guy liked Hitler, I’d beat the stuffing out of him and that would be it." -- Jack Kirby
That’s right I’m watching Wrath of Khan
Thanks Khan thread
-Indiana Solo, runner of blades
I never finish anyth
Just listen to Sandi Toksvig effortlessly switch between her original American accent and her learned British accent from UK public school:
-Indiana Solo, runner of blades
If I didn’t already know the ultimate fate of a particular character, they just said something in the episode that all but guarantees they aren’t long for this world.
-Indiana Solo, runner of blades
It's called your phone voice and you use it when dealing with important people on the phone because then they don't think you're a provincial dunce. Job interviews and appearing in court too probably.
Less of a thing these days, mind, I wouldn't bother so much any more. Definitely a big thing in the past, because people got discriminated against for having a regional accent. If your Mum has a regional accent she probably doesn't answer the phone in it still, for example.
Good thing about Game of Thrones, it largely featured northern accents, in an international bit of media. You don't usually get that.
You can thank the BBC for that. Going back to the inception of radio, they required all presenters to practice "received pronunciation" in broadcasts. It filtered down into all forms of media. Pretty much anyone from the UK you see on TV, in movies or hear on the radio uses received pronunciation because it's just the way things are done. It's only in the last decade that RP's stranglehold on popular media has waned. It's becoming more common for regional presenters to preserve their regional accents. You can thank GoT for bringing regional accents into popular consciousness.