When you get to pick a single expansion to level in, you won't need to worry about having flying unlocked as you can just skip ones you didn't have it.
Of course, there is also the question of how they are going to handle flying in leveling content going forward. Currently, you unlock flying for Azeroth AND Cata questing at 60. As well as all of TBC and Wrath now I think? Then when you hit Cata and MOP you have both of those too. But for the other expansions, you either have it or you don't for the whole expansion, so if that rule applied you would have it from level 10 on? Or would you have to wait for some higher level in which case, pathfinder becomes somewhat pointless? They hadn't decided yet and likely because it will involve a complete change of the rules. We very much could get something like flying is unlocked at 30 or 40 for that expansion no matter what, and all old pathfinders are obsolete.
The thing is, as much as everyone complains about having to go back and do the old pathfinders, there are also people who did them when current who would for SOME reason be offended when we got it for "free". I doubt that is what affects their decision to not remove pathfinder requirements, but it might.
I still don't have WoD flying and it makes what many consider a ridiculously easy 10 levels into one of the slower level ranges for me. I don't care though, because I have all but 1 class at 100 or higher so I don't need to deal with it really. That 1 class is what I am going to be leveling soon, and I will be doing it in AV so I don't have to give a shit about WOD anymore.
One thing to keep in mind is that for new accounts when Shadowlands drops, after you do the new starting area to level 10, you HAVE to level in Kul Tiras/Zandalar first.
No this is not correct.
After Shadowlands the new leveling experience is this: 1-10 in a new location called the Isle of Exiles or something like that. Then 10-50 in an expansion of your choosing. You pick just 1 expansion and do it entirely on your way to 50. Then you do 50-60 in Shadowlands.
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Kai_SanCommonly known as Klineshrike!Registered Userregular
Yeah I think the new starter area is required for fresh accounts, but you always have the option of any expansion fresh or not.
I loved the entire Alliance leveling experience. All 3 zones were great to me. The supporting cast -- Flynn, Daelia, Cyrus, Jaina, Kathryn, and Brother Pike made for a great cast of characters. And I thought Lady Ashvane made for a very compelling villain for the Alliance side of the story. Plus Gorrak Tul in Drustvar. Drustvar is the best outdoor zone Blizzard has ever made. Period.
I don't have as fond of feelings for the Horde leveling experience. The caravan part in Vol'dun where you were going around with Nisha and Dot and Dolly was great, but I didn't actually care for the rest of that zone. And I didn't care for the other two zones at all. Nazmir and Zuldazar were both pretty blah. Other than Princess Telanji and Nisha, I couldn't even tell you the names of the Horde supporting cast.
While I would definitely concede that Kul Tiras has much more flavorful zones and leveling, I really enjoyed everything about the Horde leveling in BfA. The war was a serious afterthought throughout the entire thing and that was good. And pretty much every interaction with Bwonsamdi was just *chef's kiss*
As much as I hated BFA as Horde, the leveling experience had nothing to do with it.
All 3 zones were perfectly fine.
Even if it turns out you effectively failed in all 3.
You don’t stop the coup in Zuldazar.
G’huun still rises in Nazmir
You don’t prevent the rise of Mythrax
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3cl1ps3I will build a labyrinth to house the cheeseRegistered Userregular
Vol'dun has some cool storytelling and great little interstitial quest lines (GOLDTUSK GANG), and Zuldazar is quite nice to level through as well. Honestly for all the myriad problems with BfA as an expansion, I think it's arguably the best leveling experience.
I think BfA has been demonized a lot more than it deserves. It isn't the best expansion by any means, but it's got some really good stuff in there. The outdoor zones are great. Dazar'Alor is one of the best raids they've ever put out. Dungeon design, in general is very strong and I like pretty much all 9 or 10 instances in the game, at least from a visual design.
Heck, even the cinematics and storytelling has been amazing. All of the Saurfang cinematics are top notch, and I greatly appreciate the efforts Blizzard has put into their storytelling this time around. Some of the in-game cinematics have been great too. Like that one where bear-form Malfurion ambushes some Hordies in Darkshore and stuff.
Really, if it wasn't for Azerite armor and the super lackluster war campaign this would be a top expansion. It's the Nathanos and Sylvanas stuff that's bringing down the rest of the experience. Plus it did release pretty buggy. The first two to three weeks when everybody was calling it "Beta For Azeroth" was definitely fair criticism. No excuses for releasing a buggy game. Oh, and I guess Island Expeditions and Warfronts are still pretty much wasted content. A shame they seem to have canceled the 3rd Warfront.
But that's all behind us now and the product we currently have in 8.2.5 is very good, all things considered.
I wonder what they're going to do for professions in Shadowland. Are they going to squish it all together? Revamp ingredient lists so that you can get what you need in any expansion from 10-50? Or maybe just adjust the relative power/ilevel of crafted items or something?
I think BfA has been demonized a lot more than it deserves. It isn't the best expansion by any means, but it's got some really good stuff in there. The outdoor zones are great. Dazar'Alor is one of the best raids they've ever put out. Dungeon design, in general is very strong and I like pretty much all 9 or 10 instances in the game, at least from a visual design.
Heck, even the cinematics and storytelling has been amazing. All of the Saurfang cinematics are top notch, and I greatly appreciate the efforts Blizzard has put into their storytelling this time around. Some of the in-game cinematics have been great too. Like that one where bear-form Malfurion ambushes some Hordies in Darkshore and stuff.
Really, if it wasn't for Azerite armor and the super lackluster war campaign this would be a top expansion. It's the Nathanos and Sylvanas stuff that's bringing down the rest of the experience. Plus it did release pretty buggy. The first two to three weeks when everybody was calling it "Beta For Azeroth" was definitely fair criticism. No excuses for releasing a buggy game. Oh, and I guess Island Expeditions and Warfronts are still pretty much wasted content. A shame they seem to have canceled the 3rd Warfront.
But that's all behind us now and the product we currently have in 8.2.5 is very good, all things considered.
I missed out of the first 15 months of the expansion, so I can't speak for the early days, but I think the Heart of Azeroth and Azerite armor are the weakest part of the expansion (at least from a gameplay standpoint). It just feels so barebones compared to the artifact weapons. Yes, the weapons had problem, but I think the positives outweighted the negatives.
Edit: On a semi-related note, I'm actually kind of sad about missing out on BoD. It sounds like a really interesting raid.
The story in BFA is what killed it for me, and the fact that it was bad enough to get me to unsub cements it as my worst expac.
Blizzard cannot write a hot war in WoW to save their lives. They are stuck following the same formula of an evil Warchief committing atrocities, forcing the Horde player to go along with it, and then forcing the Horde player to become a rebel against their own faction while singing kumbaya with Alliance characters who were trying to kill you in the previous patch.
Given the hoops they jumped through to get it to happen for this expac, I have zero confidence that they wouldn’t do the same thing again the next time they get a new story team who swears they can do it right this time.
I honestly could have forgiven the Heart of Azeroth/Azerite armor bullshit, as well as the really shitty layout of Dazar’alor if it wasn’t for that.
Yeah I think the new starter area is required for fresh accounts, but you always have the option of any expansion fresh or not.
None of it is set in stone though, so who knows.
Also every allied race starts at level 10 so they skip the starter area stuff. I guess they figure if you have an allied race you played to max level and did a lot of stuff so you obviously don't need the tutorial.
Yeah, leveling in BfA is great (if you're Alliance).
Are they going to do something about Dazar'alor? Because inflicting that shithole as the "home city" experience on new players for 10-50 seems like a great way to get people to quit.
I imagine it probably won't matter for a quick 10-50 leveling experience. The only reason it sucks now is because that's where horde binds and that's our central hub.
If your goal is just to blitz through story zones and complete the content, you might visit Dazar'Alor or Boralus like 5 times, just to turn in quests and stuff. But you won't really be "living there" like we are now.
We honestly do not know what our home city is going to be like yet in Shadowlands. We might end up using Org/Stormwind a lot more next expansion. Who knows.
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reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
I imagine it probably won't matter for a quick 10-50 leveling experience. The only reason it sucks now is because that's where horde binds and that's our central hub.
If your goal is just to blitz through story zones and complete the content, you might visit Dazar'Alor or Boralus like 5 times, just to turn in quests and stuff. But you won't really be "living there" like we are now.
We honestly do not know what our home city is going to be like yet in Shadowlands. We might end up using Org/Stormwind a lot more next expansion. Who knows.
The souls of Undercity and Teldrassil as "new" capitals.
I don't think a new account player going 10-50 through BFA is going to be as quick as you imply. Just doing quests sends you into and out of Dazar a lot more than 5 times, especially while doing Zuldazar, but on occasion in Nazmir and Vol'dun as well. There's a good chance they might also want to check out professions while they level, which requires even more Dazar time.
Edit: And oh man, when are players going to get mounts in the new setup? If they don't at least get a 60% mount at level 10, have fun with that!
forty on
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3cl1ps3I will build a labyrinth to house the cheeseRegistered Userregular
I mean BfA without a mount isn't going to be any worse than any other expansion without a mount.
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reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
They said at blizzcon that allied races start at 10 after the level squish. I presume 1-10 is basically a new tutorial zone and if you have unlocked an allied race you really don't/shouldn't need a tutorial.
I mean BfA without a mount isn't going to be any worse than any other expansion without a mount.
Dazar without a mount is significantly worse than, say, Dalaran without one.
Edit: Also, the point is kind of moot since no one has had to go through expansions without mounts before. Thankfully reVerse has reported some good news.
forty on
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
Dazalor is kind of a dogshit city
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
Especially considering what the alliance area is like. Its not even fucking close allies have everything they want near by, horde shit is spread out for no good reason other than "fuck you horde."
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
It's really baffling why WoW's capital cities all fall into the "tons of flavour, utterly inconvenient" and "nice and convenient, no flavour" camps.
Dazar'alor is an amazingly immersive city - it's huge, you can soar over majestic pyramids. But if you want to get anything done it's a PAIN.
Boralus is lovely and convenient, but there's this entire other 95% of the city that there is literally no reason to ever go to and as a result Boralus feels like a tiny market around a fountain + a ship and nothing more.
Really wish WoW would take a hint from FFXIV on how to make compelling cities - cities in FF are huge, but the aethernet makes them convenient enough that it's not an intrusion, and the size is still very much something you feel so it never feels like a tiny area.
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
Dalaran and Stormwind both have a ton of flavor and are extremely convenient.
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
edited November 2019
I disagree that Dalaran has any flavour at all. A city of mages has a couple dozen buildings, tops, and they're pretty much all shops or inns? It's so blatantly a videogame city, handcrafted for a player with no consideration for whether it could be a real place. It's about twenty times too small, and suffers from the exact problem of every WoW city of "where does everyone here actually live"
Stormwind is much the same, just slightly less so since there are at least a decent quantity of buildings, but it's still not really good enough. FFXIV does it a thousand times better.
Dhalphir on
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reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
All of Azeroth is twenty times too small, at a minimum.
Dalaran and Stormwind both have a ton of flavor and are extremely convenient.
Dalaran yes, Stormwind not so much.
I always felt like Stormwind made no sense, and outside of the AH and Bank I still forget where shit is.
Dalaran though, is just a circle and everything branches off. Even when I forgot, I found shit. Doing laps around Dalaran is just a great past time. For a city we lived in 2 whole expansions, it still never wore out its welcome.
I disagree that Dalaran has any flavour at all. A city of mages has a couple dozen buildings, tops, and they're pretty much all shops or inns? It's so blatantly a videogame city, handcrafted for a player with no consideration for whether it could be a real place. It's about twenty times too small, and suffers from the exact problem of every WoW city of "where does everyone here actually live"
Stormwind is much the same, just slightly less so since there are at least a decent quantity of buildings, but it's still not really good enough. FFXIV does it a thousand times better.
I'd really like to see something like guild housing or villages, really something to be immersive rpg wise.
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
Dalaran and Stormwind both have a ton of flavor and are extremely convenient.
Dalaran yes, Stormwind not so much.
I always felt like Stormwind made no sense, and outside of the AH and Bank I still forget where shit is.
Dalaran though, is just a circle and everything branches off. Even when I forgot, I found shit. Doing laps around Dalaran is just a great past time. For a city we lived in 2 whole expansions, it still never wore out its welcome.
The number 1 memorable moment for anyone in OG WoW was walking into Stormwind for the first time.
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
Dalaran and Stormwind both have a ton of flavor and are extremely convenient.
Dalaran yes, Stormwind not so much.
I always felt like Stormwind made no sense, and outside of the AH and Bank I still forget where shit is.
Dalaran though, is just a circle and everything branches off. Even when I forgot, I found shit. Doing laps around Dalaran is just a great past time. For a city we lived in 2 whole expansions, it still never wore out its welcome.
The number 1 memorable moment for anyone in OG WoW was walking into Stormwind for the first time.
Nah for me it was ironforge, but I'm a dwarf main.
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
Dalaran and Stormwind both have a ton of flavor and are extremely convenient.
Dalaran yes, Stormwind not so much.
I always felt like Stormwind made no sense, and outside of the AH and Bank I still forget where shit is.
Dalaran though, is just a circle and everything branches off. Even when I forgot, I found shit. Doing laps around Dalaran is just a great past time. For a city we lived in 2 whole expansions, it still never wore out its welcome.
The number 1 memorable moment for anyone in OG WoW was walking into Stormwind for the first time.
In my case it was walking into Darnassus for the first time and being blown away. I spent hours exploring the city and getting acquainted with the shops.
Then I made my human paladin and never really went back to Darnassus.
Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
edited November 2019
Don't get me wrong, WoW's cities can be super atmospheric and are largely quite convenient, but they do a shit job at seeming like real places and it's very difficult to actually figure out where everyone is supposed to live in most of them.
If you have to choose between flavour and convenience I pick convenience every day but there is no reason you cannot have both and I can't think of any WoW city that manages it.
They are great cities, but they are very clearly videogame cities.
FFXIV has the advantage of having zone lines throughout the world and in it's cities. It means that the world ends up feeling like a much larger places that players travel through, but only stop at specific areas where there is something special. WoW is continuous area, which means that there is some necessary compression. I do agree that the aetheryte system in the cities helps as well. The place can be massive, but you can still get around.
Posts
No this is not correct.
After Shadowlands the new leveling experience is this: 1-10 in a new location called the Isle of Exiles or something like that. Then 10-50 in an expansion of your choosing. You pick just 1 expansion and do it entirely on your way to 50. Then you do 50-60 in Shadowlands.
None of it is set in stone though, so who knows.
10-50: BFZ if you are a NEW player, otherwise ANY zone
50-60: Shadowlands
Existing accounts go; new starting area -> free choice -> Shadowlands
pleasepaypreacher.net
I liked Nazmir as horde.
I don't have as fond of feelings for the Horde leveling experience. The caravan part in Vol'dun where you were going around with Nisha and Dot and Dolly was great, but I didn't actually care for the rest of that zone. And I didn't care for the other two zones at all. Nazmir and Zuldazar were both pretty blah. Other than Princess Telanji and Nisha, I couldn't even tell you the names of the Horde supporting cast.
All 3 zones were perfectly fine.
You don’t stop the coup in Zuldazar.
G’huun still rises in Nazmir
You don’t prevent the rise of Mythrax
Heck, even the cinematics and storytelling has been amazing. All of the Saurfang cinematics are top notch, and I greatly appreciate the efforts Blizzard has put into their storytelling this time around. Some of the in-game cinematics have been great too. Like that one where bear-form Malfurion ambushes some Hordies in Darkshore and stuff.
Really, if it wasn't for Azerite armor and the super lackluster war campaign this would be a top expansion. It's the Nathanos and Sylvanas stuff that's bringing down the rest of the experience. Plus it did release pretty buggy. The first two to three weeks when everybody was calling it "Beta For Azeroth" was definitely fair criticism. No excuses for releasing a buggy game. Oh, and I guess Island Expeditions and Warfronts are still pretty much wasted content. A shame they seem to have canceled the 3rd Warfront.
But that's all behind us now and the product we currently have in 8.2.5 is very good, all things considered.
I missed out of the first 15 months of the expansion, so I can't speak for the early days, but I think the Heart of Azeroth and Azerite armor are the weakest part of the expansion (at least from a gameplay standpoint). It just feels so barebones compared to the artifact weapons. Yes, the weapons had problem, but I think the positives outweighted the negatives.
Edit: On a semi-related note, I'm actually kind of sad about missing out on BoD. It sounds like a really interesting raid.
Steam: pazython
Blizzard cannot write a hot war in WoW to save their lives. They are stuck following the same formula of an evil Warchief committing atrocities, forcing the Horde player to go along with it, and then forcing the Horde player to become a rebel against their own faction while singing kumbaya with Alliance characters who were trying to kill you in the previous patch.
Given the hoops they jumped through to get it to happen for this expac, I have zero confidence that they wouldn’t do the same thing again the next time they get a new story team who swears they can do it right this time.
I honestly could have forgiven the Heart of Azeroth/Azerite armor bullshit, as well as the really shitty layout of Dazar’alor if it wasn’t for that.
Also every allied race starts at level 10 so they skip the starter area stuff. I guess they figure if you have an allied race you played to max level and did a lot of stuff so you obviously don't need the tutorial.
If your goal is just to blitz through story zones and complete the content, you might visit Dazar'Alor or Boralus like 5 times, just to turn in quests and stuff. But you won't really be "living there" like we are now.
We honestly do not know what our home city is going to be like yet in Shadowlands. We might end up using Org/Stormwind a lot more next expansion. Who knows.
The souls of Undercity and Teldrassil as "new" capitals.
Edit: And oh man, when are players going to get mounts in the new setup? If they don't at least get a 60% mount at level 10, have fun with that!
They said at blizzcon that allied races start at 10 after the level squish. I presume 1-10 is basically a new tutorial zone and if you have unlocked an allied race you really don't/shouldn't need a tutorial.
Edit: Also, the point is kind of moot since no one has had to go through expansions without mounts before. Thankfully reVerse has reported some good news.
Especially considering what the alliance area is like. Its not even fucking close allies have everything they want near by, horde shit is spread out for no good reason other than "fuck you horde."
pleasepaypreacher.net
Dazar'alor is an amazingly immersive city - it's huge, you can soar over majestic pyramids. But if you want to get anything done it's a PAIN.
Boralus is lovely and convenient, but there's this entire other 95% of the city that there is literally no reason to ever go to and as a result Boralus feels like a tiny market around a fountain + a ship and nothing more.
Really wish WoW would take a hint from FFXIV on how to make compelling cities - cities in FF are huge, but the aethernet makes them convenient enough that it's not an intrusion, and the size is still very much something you feel so it never feels like a tiny area.
Stormwind is much the same, just slightly less so since there are at least a decent quantity of buildings, but it's still not really good enough. FFXIV does it a thousand times better.
Dalaran yes, Stormwind not so much.
I always felt like Stormwind made no sense, and outside of the AH and Bank I still forget where shit is.
Dalaran though, is just a circle and everything branches off. Even when I forgot, I found shit. Doing laps around Dalaran is just a great past time. For a city we lived in 2 whole expansions, it still never wore out its welcome.
I'd really like to see something like guild housing or villages, really something to be immersive rpg wise.
The number 1 memorable moment for anyone in OG WoW was walking into Stormwind for the first time.
Nah for me it was ironforge, but I'm a dwarf main.
pleasepaypreacher.net
In my case it was walking into Darnassus for the first time and being blown away. I spent hours exploring the city and getting acquainted with the shops.
Then I made my human paladin and never really went back to Darnassus.
If you have to choose between flavour and convenience I pick convenience every day but there is no reason you cannot have both and I can't think of any WoW city that manages it.
They are great cities, but they are very clearly videogame cities.