EDIT: As in, why did you need to send out a press release for a deleted tweet?
This is the part that gets me about it
It seems like a fairly straightforward "Whatever you intended, you need to either disavow the problematic interpretation or delete the tweet" situation
I can't think of any reason for a press release other than to double down or dog whistle
japan on
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BethrynUnhappiness is MandatoryRegistered Userregular
Twitter appears to be concluding that actually it's Starmer who is antisemitic, for conflating criticising Israel with Jews.
Wait. Starmer is criticising Jews because he is criticising Israel?
"Well actually," RLB's retweeted article only mentioned Israel so by assuming the article by Maxine Peake was dogwhistling antisemitism when it actually just talked about Israel specifically fell afoul of certain definitions of antisemitism that include saying Jews are responsible for the actions of Israel therefore RLB is a heroine and Starmer is a villain.
All I know for sure was that every time there is criticism of Israel some dipshit cries foul about hating Jews. And then nothing about it is clear anymore.
All I know for sure was that every time there is criticism of Israel some dipshit cries foul about hating Jews. And then nothing about it is clear anymore.
In this case, it’s actually blaming Israel for independently occurring evil.
It’s like blaming Stalin for the Gestapo.
All I can think about is that clip from a nature documentary where two lions have their prey pinned down until they start fighting each other. As a result, the prey is able to escape with the lions none the wiser.
To be honest, I think that is the best way I could sum up the Labour Party sometimes...
All I know for sure was that every time there is criticism of Israel some dipshit cries foul about hating Jews. And then nothing about it is clear anymore.
This isn’t “criticism of Israel”. This is someone looking at the racist murder of George Floyd and saying Israel taught US cops how to do it.
I mean I think it's insane to refuse to take down that tweet. The antisemitism issue is real.
She says she didn't want to take it down without some further clarification accompanying it, and I'm not completely clear about what that would mean.
It's a weird hill to die on, though. I still think she didn't actually read the damn thing before she retweeted it, which is an error of judgement in and of itself.
That's much less bad. edit: but still real dumb as you say.
Powerpuppies on
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ShadowenSnores in the morningLoserdomRegistered Userregular
This is why you never quote-retweet. You just retweet, and then if you figure out you misinterpreted something and disagree with it, you can just unretweet it and no one will be the wiser. "Huh, I thought I saw that tweet when [person] RTd it. Guess not."
This is why you never quote-retweet. You just retweet, and then if you figure out you misinterpreted something and disagree with it, you can just unretweet it and no one will be the wiser. "Huh, I thought I saw that tweet when [person] RTd it. Guess not."
This seems very optimistic.
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ShadowenSnores in the morningLoserdomRegistered Userregular
It also assumes no one cares enough to screenshot it for proof.
This is why you never quote-retweet. You just retweet, and then if you figure out you misinterpreted something and disagree with it, you can just unretweet it and no one will be the wiser. "Huh, I thought I saw that tweet when [person] RTd it. Guess not."
I just hope her sacking from the shadow cabinet serves as a sharp reminder to the rest of the Labour party to be fucking careful with what you say and do!
We have a Tory gov willing to make literally anything a wedge issue to distract from their own failings, and an intentional-or-otherwise compliant press who frequently serve to enhance issues like this way past their natural lifespan. Starmer has done a fantastic job of threading the needle on this sort of silly shit that won't get you anywhere to fight, and instead focusing on the real, harmful failings of the last 10 years.
RLB, whilst probably meaning well was almost as gaff-prone as Corbyn, and we sadly don't live in an environment where this can be forgiven or forgotten.
The German covid tracking app is being put up on other countries' app stores since yesterday, Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria, Czech Republic, Denmark, France and Luxembourg, only on English and German for a start, translations into other languages will follow.
The German covid tracking app is being put up on other countries' app stores since yesterday, Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria, Czech Republic, Denmark, France and Luxembourg, only on English and German for a start, translations into other languages will follow.
Only two languages was probably the biggest fuckup of the initial app release
The German covid tracking app is being put up on other countries' app stores since yesterday, Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria, Czech Republic, Denmark, France and Luxembourg, only on English and German for a start, translations into other languages will follow.
Only two languages was probably the biggest fuckup of the initial app release
True, but I think they probably did it so the whiny right wing assholes couldn't go
"uhhnnnn why is there so many languages?? Durrrrrrr is the app being delayed for FURREIGNERS???"
The German covid tracking app is being put up on other countries' app stores since yesterday, Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria, Czech Republic, Denmark, France and Luxembourg, only on English and German for a start, translations into other languages will follow.
Thefailed UK attemp at making an app has me really depressed, a friend of mine worked on a government digital project that wasted 5 million over 2 years. It was chock full of incompetent management and graft. And ended up being investigated. I can't imagine the corruption to waste double that in a month. Looking at the code they produced is just depressing.
In this moment, I am euphoric. Not because of any phony god’s blessing. But because, I am enlightened by my intelligence.
The German covid tracking app is being put up on other countries' app stores since yesterday, Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria, Czech Republic, Denmark, France and Luxembourg, only on English and German for a start, translations into other languages will follow.
Is there any reason we couldn't do the same here or is this a BREXIT MEANS BREXIT WILL OF THE PEOPLE thing
Am I missing something? US police forces have absolutely received training from israeli agencies.
But were they specifically trained to kneel on necks so suspects can't breathe?
I dont think you can draw such a clear line like that. Militarized police trained with little regard for civil rights flows directly into things like what got George killed even if its not literally what theyre trained to do.
To say it rises to the level of anti semitism on that basis is a pretty big ask I think.
The way its phrased suggests israel is responsible for floyds murder. Part of this is because its external. Part of this is because its specific. The US is perfectly capable of training its police to murder without the help of Israel. Singling Israel out is an issue then because it immediately promots anyone with a brain to ask why. It doesnt even matter if she is right.
You can disagree with the militarization of police without suggesting that.
Its akin to saying “but what about black on black crime” or “cops kill more black people because that is where the crime is”
The German covid tracking app is being put up on other countries' app stores since yesterday, Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria, Czech Republic, Denmark, France and Luxembourg, only on English and German for a start, translations into other languages will follow.
Is there any reason we couldn't do the same here or is this a BREXIT MEANS BREXIT WILL OF THE PEOPLE thing
We can't do that because Boris has claimed that nowhere in the world has a working tracker app, and it will take multiple newspapers pointing at Germany to convince him to acknowledge he's wrong.
Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
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ElldrenIs a woman dammitceterum censeoRegistered Userregular
All I know for sure was that every time there is criticism of Israel some dipshit cries foul about hating Jews. And then nothing about it is clear anymore.
This isn’t “criticism of Israel”. This is someone looking at the racist murder of George Floyd and saying Israel taught US cops how to do it.
And to be clear it is an absolutely ludicrous claim on its face. It’s like blaming your lung cancer on the one time you visited an old building abroad instead of your lifetime smoking habit.
RLB getting sacked for what she did specifically probably is an overreaction... if it was taken in a vacuum. Here's the thing though, it isn't and has to be taken in the context of the issues facing the party dating back years. I don't envy the decision Starmer had to make here because he really had no good options, there are going to be repercussions for the course he's chosen to take. To use a colorful metaphor RLB being the first one to trigger this trap is basically the party treading on a landmine full of dog shit inside a phonebox. The left wing of the party have made it clear they strongly disagree with the sacking of the person who is arguably their most senior member. The fact is though they had their shot at dealing with anti-Semitism while they were in power and not only did they completely fail they allowed it to flourish into a massive issue that contributed heavily to Labours worst defeat in 80 years.
Maybe it's time they accepted that the "ignore it and hope it goes away" solution to the problem isn't ever going to work? Maybe it's time a new solution of visible and strong action is taken? Maybe they should accept that anti-Semitism is a bigger issue to those outside the far left bubble than they personally feel it to be? Maybe after several years calling the shots, it's their turn to be the ones to shut up and get in line behind the leader?
The German covid tracking app is being put up on other countries' app stores since yesterday, Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria, Czech Republic, Denmark, France and Luxembourg, only on English and German for a start, translations into other languages will follow.
Is there any reason we couldn't do the same here or is this a BREXIT MEANS BREXIT WILL OF THE PEOPLE thing
We can't do that because Boris has claimed that nowhere in the world has a working tracker app, and it will take multiple newspapers pointing at Germany to convince him to acknowledge he's wrong.
The German covid tracking app is being put up on other countries' app stores since yesterday, Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria, Czech Republic, Denmark, France and Luxembourg, only on English and German for a start, translations into other languages will follow.
Is there any reason we couldn't do the same here or is this a BREXIT MEANS BREXIT WILL OF THE PEOPLE thing
We can't do that because Boris has claimed that nowhere in the world has a working tracker app, and it will take multiple newspapers pointing at Germany to convince him to acknowledge he's wrong.
And then he still won't.
on top of that, Boris has been adamantly against teaming up with the EU on everything to put the whole "Brexit means Brexit!" point across.
Perhaps if the EU asked Boris if he'd like to join their breathing initiative he'll asphyxiate himself..
All I know for sure was that every time there is criticism of Israel some dipshit cries foul about hating Jews. And then nothing about it is clear anymore.
This isn’t “criticism of Israel”. This is someone looking at the racist murder of George Floyd and saying Israel taught US cops how to do it.
And to be clear it is an absolutely ludicrous claim on its face. It’s like blaming your lung cancer on the one time you visited an old building abroad instead of your lifetime smoking habit.
Something I learnt from the excellent philosophy Tube video on antisemitism is that because when people say Israel, the often just mean Jewish people, it's very easy to basically walk into either an anti-semitic statement, or one that dogwhistles anti-semitism when making a statement. It's best then to be specific when making a criticsim.
Like the article is the perfect example.
Saying something like "they learnt that chokehold from the Israelis" is antisemtic. (IMO) Even if you didn't intend it. Any anti-semite is going to look at that, understand you meant to say "the jews" (even if you didn't!) and is going to agree with you. "Cops aren't bad, they learned how to do this from the jews, and jews are bad" is the insinuation.
If instead, you said something like "The police attending courses lead by the Isreali military is an inappropriate militarization of the police force" Then the specificity makes clear its meaning, that sending police to learn from the military is the issue, that it's the Isreali one is really irrelevant.
There's nothing wrong with the very specific claim if it's true. But since there appears to be no evidence it is true, we're left with someone looking at Floyd's death, tapping the side of their nose conspiratorially and then saying "Israel" while nodding in a knowing fashion. I suspect Peake read somewhere or was told by someone that it was true, and happily believed it without a second thought, because for a certain kind of person on the left in Britain sticking Israel at the origin of a bad thing is a natural move.
Whether there are justifications or not on the article are kind of irrelevant to the fact that she’s instantly proven herself a massive liability to the efforts to reform the perception of Labour anti-semetism by putting up something that leads to this.
Whether it was intentional or accidental, the results are the same.
Police Scotland statement from Guardian Live Blog:
Police confirm suspect is dead and six other people currently in hospital for treatment
Assistant chief constable Steve Johnson said in a statement:
The individual who was shot by armed police has died. Six other people are in hospital for treatment to their injuries including a police officer, who is in a critical but stable condition.
We are continuing to deal with the incident on West George Street #Glasgow and would ask people to avoid the area. We would urge the public not to speculate about this incident or share unconfirmed information on social media.
One of the injured was a responding police officer.
Who cares where they learned it anyway, surely the problem is they are killing people with it, repeatedly.
I don’t think anyone involved is saying the US police killing people isn’t a problem.
Yeah, its really odd to suggest the US police needed lessons in brutality and and you'd need clear evidence for this to not be considered antisemitic.
Some US police will have been on training exchanges to Israel and various other countries, as most police forces all over the world do this, but to suggest that the US police's racist violence originates in Israel, is so historically ignorant, that it should be considered antisemitic if stated by a politician.
Judging by Bournemouth yesterday I guess telling everyone it was their patriotic duty to go out and drink beer but also use your common sense and not do anything rash resulted in some confusing mixed messages.
Who cares where they learned it anyway, surely the problem is they are killing people with it, repeatedly.
I don’t think anyone involved is saying the US police killing people isn’t a problem.
Yeah, its really odd to suggest the US police needed lessons in brutality and and you'd need clear evidence for this to not be considered antisemitic.
Some US police will have been on training exchanges to Israel and various other countries, as most police forces all over the world do this, but to suggest that the US police's racist violence originates in Israel, is so historically ignorant, that it should be considered antisemitic if stated by a politician.
Police in the US have been brutally assaulting and killing black people since long before Israel was a glimmer in Theodor Herzl’s eye. Trying to make some sort of causal connection between those is utterly ludicrous and absolutely antisemitic.
Note: this is not to say that US police receiving training from the Israeli military isn’t an issue. But it’s a symptom, not a cause.
So remember the government made a big deal about how they're gonna build their own satellite system that will be way way better than the EU one.
Well, seems it's about going as well as the contact tracing app which we decided to do on our own:
The UK government’s plan to invest hundreds of millions of pounds in a satellite broadband company has been described as “nonsensical” by experts, who say the company doesn’t even make the right type of satellite the country needs after Brexit.
The investment in OneWeb, first reported on Thursday night, is intended to mitigate against the UK losing access to the EU’s Galileo satellite navigation system.
Posts
This is the part that gets me about it
It seems like a fairly straightforward "Whatever you intended, you need to either disavow the problematic interpretation or delete the tweet" situation
I can't think of any reason for a press release other than to double down or dog whistle
OK then.
I hate Twitter.
It’s like blaming Stalin for the Gestapo.
To be honest, I think that is the best way I could sum up the Labour Party sometimes...
This isn’t “criticism of Israel”. This is someone looking at the racist murder of George Floyd and saying Israel taught US cops how to do it.
Choose Your Own Chat 1 Choose Your Own Chat 2 Choose Your Own Chat 3
That's much less bad. edit: but still real dumb as you say.
This seems very optimistic.
This is why you don't use Twitter.
We have a Tory gov willing to make literally anything a wedge issue to distract from their own failings, and an intentional-or-otherwise compliant press who frequently serve to enhance issues like this way past their natural lifespan. Starmer has done a fantastic job of threading the needle on this sort of silly shit that won't get you anywhere to fight, and instead focusing on the real, harmful failings of the last 10 years.
RLB, whilst probably meaning well was almost as gaff-prone as Corbyn, and we sadly don't live in an environment where this can be forgiven or forgotten.
Only two languages was probably the biggest fuckup of the initial app release
True, but I think they probably did it so the whiny right wing assholes couldn't go
"uhhnnnn why is there so many languages?? Durrrrrrr is the app being delayed for FURREIGNERS???"
Thefailed UK attemp at making an app has me really depressed, a friend of mine worked on a government digital project that wasted 5 million over 2 years. It was chock full of incompetent management and graft. And ended up being investigated. I can't imagine the corruption to waste double that in a month. Looking at the code they produced is just depressing.
Is there any reason we couldn't do the same here or is this a BREXIT MEANS BREXIT WILL OF THE PEOPLE thing
You can disagree with the militarization of police without suggesting that.
Its akin to saying “but what about black on black crime” or “cops kill more black people because that is where the crime is”
We can't do that because Boris has claimed that nowhere in the world has a working tracker app, and it will take multiple newspapers pointing at Germany to convince him to acknowledge he's wrong.
And to be clear it is an absolutely ludicrous claim on its face. It’s like blaming your lung cancer on the one time you visited an old building abroad instead of your lifetime smoking habit.
Maybe it's time they accepted that the "ignore it and hope it goes away" solution to the problem isn't ever going to work? Maybe it's time a new solution of visible and strong action is taken? Maybe they should accept that anti-Semitism is a bigger issue to those outside the far left bubble than they personally feel it to be? Maybe after several years calling the shots, it's their turn to be the ones to shut up and get in line behind the leader?
And then he still won't.
Steam | XBL
Choose Your Own Chat 1 Choose Your Own Chat 2 Choose Your Own Chat 3
on top of that, Boris has been adamantly against teaming up with the EU on everything to put the whole "Brexit means Brexit!" point across.
Perhaps if the EU asked Boris if he'd like to join their breathing initiative he'll asphyxiate himself..
Something I learnt from the excellent philosophy Tube video on antisemitism is that because when people say Israel, the often just mean Jewish people, it's very easy to basically walk into either an anti-semitic statement, or one that dogwhistles anti-semitism when making a statement. It's best then to be specific when making a criticsim.
Like the article is the perfect example.
Saying something like "they learnt that chokehold from the Israelis" is antisemtic. (IMO) Even if you didn't intend it. Any anti-semite is going to look at that, understand you meant to say "the jews" (even if you didn't!) and is going to agree with you. "Cops aren't bad, they learned how to do this from the jews, and jews are bad" is the insinuation.
If instead, you said something like "The police attending courses lead by the Isreali military is an inappropriate militarization of the police force" Then the specificity makes clear its meaning, that sending police to learn from the military is the issue, that it's the Isreali one is really irrelevant.
Choose Your Own Chat 1 Choose Your Own Chat 2 Choose Your Own Chat 3
Whether it was intentional or accidental, the results are the same.
I don’t think anyone involved is saying the US police killing people isn’t a problem.
Choose Your Own Chat 1 Choose Your Own Chat 2 Choose Your Own Chat 3
BBC had picked it up and is reporting three people stabbed in the hotel on West George Street
Steam | XBL
One of the injured was a responding police officer.
Yeah, its really odd to suggest the US police needed lessons in brutality and and you'd need clear evidence for this to not be considered antisemitic.
Some US police will have been on training exchanges to Israel and various other countries, as most police forces all over the world do this, but to suggest that the US police's racist violence originates in Israel, is so historically ignorant, that it should be considered antisemitic if stated by a politician.
Who could have seen this coming?
Choose Your Own Chat 1 Choose Your Own Chat 2 Choose Your Own Chat 3
Police in the US have been brutally assaulting and killing black people since long before Israel was a glimmer in Theodor Herzl’s eye. Trying to make some sort of causal connection between those is utterly ludicrous and absolutely antisemitic.
Note: this is not to say that US police receiving training from the Israeli military isn’t an issue. But it’s a symptom, not a cause.
Well, seems it's about going as well as the contact tracing app which we decided to do on our own:
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2020/jun/26/satellite-experts-oneweb-investment-uk-galileo-brexit