All of this said, I actually would enjoy seeing Booster trying to be a 50s sitcom dad, a la "Leave It To Booster." Maybe he travels to different eras to see if he can fit in, only to mess each one up in a comedic way that still teaches him a lesson.
Rip Hunter, Time Master, is still canonically his son, right?
So we know he becomes a dad at some point.
0
Options
Garlic Breadi'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm aRegistered User, Disagreeableregular
I'm willing to believe the Harley dating Booster thing is just terrible writer taste. They keep trying to pretend anyone likes Barry Allen as the Flash over Wally. And then threw Wally under a bus in Heroes In Crisis because people refused to like their guy more. It's not like Harley wasn't already bi, that was stated as canon a long ways back.
(If you like Barry as the Flash more because of Flash TV, okay, but no other version of the character is similar to that version, so I don't know if you like comic Barry more).
Humphries has said that he was planning on having Ivy be a part of his run but was forbidden by Editorial and so he went with Booster instead
Like, dude straight up confirmed that they were actively trying to squash the relationship
+4
Options
Garlic Breadi'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm aRegistered User, Disagreeableregular
shit i can't believe i'm not gonna get my "Harley Quinn is in a lesbian relationship with Poison Ivy" brand tennis shoes
You misunderstand. I'm not saying AT&T is going to change how Harley is portrayed on merchandise. I'm saying AT&T might be changing how Harley is portrayed universally, in order to sell her merchandise in certain nations with strict guidelines on what messages they allow to be conveyed to their people.
It's a pattern we've been seeing in a lot of western popular culture lately.
where are some examples? i'm aware of lgbtqia+ stuff from the US being censored in some countries but that's not "universal portrayal"
i'm not aware of companies making lgbtqia+ characters not that and if it's happened like you say i'd really like to know about it
The Harley Quinn situation reminded me specifically of a controversy from late last year, where gaming company Hasbro, owners of the Magic: The Gathering trading card game, attempted to pass off a prior homosexual relationship held by one of the game's main characters, Chandra Nalaar, as just a phase, even going so far as to have Chandra claim that her type was not only men, but particularly macho men. This inexplicably sudden reversal in the character's portrayal came at the same time Hasbro was planning to expand the Magic: The Gathering property into other media, including a live action movie and an animated series on Netflix, leading many to conclude that the decision was made as a condition for getting this new media released in foreign markets that would disapprove of such a character.
Hasbro has apologized for the decision and paid lip service to reversing it, but have not published any stories to back up that sentiment as of this post.
thanks! yeah i can definitely see that, although i can also see them doing it because they're adapting to a new industry and want to remove "roadblocks" or whatever (which doesn't make it any less homophobic, but does remove the racist "it's not us" excuse)
but also, that is one example. you said it's a pattern we're seeing a lot of. i can give you way more examples of comics/cartoons/tv shows (even narrowing it down to just superhero stuff) that have added queer representation to them
Even the foreign censorship you describe in your post is done with not only Hollywood's consent, but their cooperation as well. Anonymous studio employees who contributed to the film Bohemian Rhapsody from two years ago revealed that the film had been intentionally constructed in such a way as to make references to Freddie Mercury's bisexuality as easy to edit out of the story as possible. This has become a common practice in modern Hollywood, and studio employees are sworn to secrecy to avoid tarnishing the industry's progressive reputation.
being able to edit out for other markets does not equal a "universal portrayal" like you said. quite the opposite, in fact
also, biopics ignoring the queer aspects of its subject(s) is nothing new and has nothing to do with sinophobia or non-US markets
I'm willing to believe the Harley dating Booster thing is just terrible writer taste. They keep trying to pretend anyone likes Barry Allen as the Flash over Wally. And then threw Wally under a bus in Heroes In Crisis because people refused to like their guy more. It's not like Harley wasn't already bi, that was stated as canon a long ways back.
(If you like Barry as the Flash more because of Flash TV, okay, but no other version of the character is similar to that version, so I don't know if you like comic Barry more).
Humphries has said that he was planning on having Ivy be a part of his run but was forbidden by Editorial and so he went with Booster instead
Like, dude straight up confirmed that they were actively trying to squash the relationship
I never heard about that, yeah that seems pretty definitive.
0
Options
Zonugal(He/Him) The Holiday ArmadilloI'm Santa's representative for all the southern states. And Mexico!Registered Userregular
edited August 2020
I'm 75% of the way through Infinite Crisis.
You folks remember Sam Raimi's Oz: The Great & Powerful?
You remember that scene where Theodora, the newly formed Wicked Witch, arrives at the Emerald City and becomes focused hellfire to break through the city's magical bubble shield?
Superboy-Prime just got out of his cage and its reminding me of that.
being able to edit out for other markets does not equal a "universal portrayal" like you said.
While that's true, the practice is still manipulative and hypocritical. Giving foreign governments permission to edit their films is one thing, but isolating the content they know those governments will want to edit out from the rest of story in order to make it more convenient for them to do so takes it to a whole other level. It turns representation into a cynical ploy they can use to accumulate goodwill domestically without having to actually care about anything.
+2
Options
Garlic Breadi'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm aRegistered User, Disagreeableregular
being able to edit out for other markets does not equal a "universal portrayal" like you said.
While that's true, the practice is still manipulative and hypocritical. Giving foreign governments permission to edit their films is one thing, but isolating the content they know those governments will want to edit out from the rest of story in order to make it more convenient for them to do so takes it to a whole other level. It turns representation into a cynical ploy they can use to accumulate goodwill domestically without having to actually care about anything.
could be that, could be filmmakers acknowledging their movies will be edited and try to accommodate so that it's not a mess after. could be both!
but either way, it is not the argument you originally said that characters are having their universal portrayals changed to be less/non queer to please China and foreign markets
especially when it's hella easy to point at increased representation in media (while not ignoring where it's lacking) that counters your sinophobic post
Garlic Bread on
0
Options
UnbrokenEvaHIGH ON THE WIREBUT I WON'T TRIP ITRegistered Userregular
You folks remember Sam Raimi's Oz: The Great & Powerful?
You remember that scene where Theodora, the newly formed Wicked Witch, arrives at the Emerald City and becomes focused hellfire to break through the city's magical bubble shield?
Superboy-Prime just got out of his cage and its reminding me of that.
but is he doing just fine?
+6
Options
Zonugal(He/Him) The Holiday ArmadilloI'm Santa's representative for all the southern states. And Mexico!Registered Userregular
You folks remember Sam Raimi's Oz: The Great & Powerful?
You remember that scene where Theodora, the newly formed Wicked Witch, arrives at the Emerald City and becomes focused hellfire to break through the city's magical bubble shield?
Superboy-Prime just got out of his cage and its reminding me of that.
but is he doing just fine?
Gonna make a safe claim and say, Superboy-Prime has felt better.
could be that, could be filmmakers acknowledging their movies will be edited and try to accommodate so that it's not a mess after.
Even if that's true, it still means the filmmakers are valuing the structure and coherence of their plot in foreign markets above representation, a tacit approval of marginalization and partial erasure. Is that really the sort of stance we want to be supporting?
0
Options
Garlic Breadi'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm aRegistered User, Disagreeableregular
could be that, could be filmmakers acknowledging their movies will be edited and try to accommodate so that it's not a mess after.
Even if that's true, it still means the filmmakers are valuing the structure and coherence of their plot in foreign markets above representation, a tacit approval of marginalization and partial erasure. Is that really the sort of stance we want to be supporting?
what the fuck is your argument? "they're changing queer characters for China" no they're not "well they make things easier for other countries to edit!" yeah they do "should we support that?"
support what? who here is supporting that? most people here aren't filmmakers and can't fuckin change hollywood
you made a racist post, got called out on it, and instead of addressing it you just keep changing your argument to tell us what kind of representation we should appreciate and support
You folks remember Sam Raimi's Oz: The Great & Powerful?
You remember that scene where Theodora, the newly formed Wicked Witch, arrives at the Emerald City and becomes focused hellfire to break through the city's magical bubble shield?
Superboy-Prime just got out of his cage and its reminding me of that.
but is he doing just fine?
Sadly no, despite all his rage he is still trapped like a rat in a cage
could be that, could be filmmakers acknowledging their movies will be edited and try to accommodate so that it's not a mess after.
Even if that's true, it still means the filmmakers are valuing the structure and coherence of their plot in foreign markets above representation, a tacit approval of marginalization and partial erasure. Is that really the sort of stance we want to be supporting?
what the fuck is your argument? "they're changing queer characters for China" no they're not "well they make things easier for other countries to edit!" yeah they do "should we support that?"
support what? who here is supporting that? most people here aren't filmmakers and can't fuckin change hollywood
you made a racist post, got called out on it, and instead of addressing it you just keep changing your argument to tell us what kind of representation we should appreciate and support
Sorry for being unclear earlier.
I'm just curious about people's opinions on the issue of filmmakers valuing coherent plot structure above taking a stand for full global representation, especially when the governments they are so eager to appease are among the most oppressive in the world, since it is a topic that came up over the course of the conversation and also a complex argument where good points could be made in support of either side. I thought it could be educational to hear some alternative viewpoints on it.
If anyone doesn't feel comfortable sharing their stance on this issue, they don't have to do so, of course. No pressure.
Saying we're not filmmakers and we can't change the practice feels like going too easy on Hollywood. It's excusing their moral cowardice as an inevitability. It's hiding behind Hollywood, not unlike how Hollywood hides behind China. Even if we cannot stop the practice, surely we can at least denounce it. Except, of course, those among us who live in nations where they risk imprisonment for publicly expressing such sentiments.
0
Options
Zonugal(He/Him) The Holiday ArmadilloI'm Santa's representative for all the southern states. And Mexico!Registered Userregular
I have finished DC Comics' Infinite Crisis novelization.
Lesson #1: Comic book fanboys will try to destroy everything & everyone
could be that, could be filmmakers acknowledging their movies will be edited and try to accommodate so that it's not a mess after.
Even if that's true, it still means the filmmakers are valuing the structure and coherence of their plot in foreign markets above representation, a tacit approval of marginalization and partial erasure. Is that really the sort of stance we want to be supporting?
what the fuck is your argument? "they're changing queer characters for China" no they're not "well they make things easier for other countries to edit!" yeah they do "should we support that?"
support what? who here is supporting that? most people here aren't filmmakers and can't fuckin change hollywood
you made a racist post, got called out on it, and instead of addressing it you just keep changing your argument to tell us what kind of representation we should appreciate and support
Sorry for being unclear earlier.
I'm just curious about people's opinions on the issue of filmmakers valuing coherent plot structure above taking a stand for full global representation, especially when the governments they are so eager to appease are among the most oppressive in the world, since it is a topic that came up over the course of the conversation and also a complex argument where good points could be made in support of either side. I thought it could be educational to hear some alternative viewpoints on it.
If anyone doesn't feel comfortable sharing their stance on this issue, they don't have to do so, of course. No pressure.
Saying we're not filmmakers and we can't change the practice feels like going too easy on Hollywood. It's excusing their moral cowardice as an inevitability. It's hiding behind Hollywood, not unlike how Hollywood hides behind China. Even if we cannot stop the practice, surely we can at least denounce it. Except, of course, those among us who live in nations where they risk imprisonment for publicly expressing such sentiments.
Filmmakerz don't have final say on the edit of a blockbuster to begin with, but the real point is LGBTQ representation in comics and movies is because America has shitty views and its not China's fault.
Like, if we look at the Marvel side of the equation we can see that the last ten years has been a power struggle against people who at the very least realize that movies about non-straight white males sell and increase the audience on the one side and people convinced that so much as making movies like “Captain Marvel” and “Black Panther” would be box office poison.
Marvel’s output when it comes to these sorts of things isn’t much different from DC or any average studio really. I don’t think there is a good reason to not assume that sort of struggle isn’t happening everywhere in the entertainment industry. Harley Quinn is being made heterosexual in some places and being allowed to be gay in others because there are some assholes pulling the strings that are either homophobic or believe homosexuality to be box office poison.
I would argue DC has done a much better job than Marvel representation wise
It took Marvel 18 movies to make one with a BIPOC lead (of which there is still only the one until Shang-Chi) and 21 for one starring a woman
It took DC 3 DCEU movies to make Wonder Woman and 5 for Aquaman
Neither are, like, bastions of diversity, especially when it comes to LGBTQ content, but Marvel dragged its heels for a decade (even after Perlmutter was shut down it still took years) meanwhile DC largely hit the ground running
BlankZoe on
+6
Options
Zonugal(He/Him) The Holiday ArmadilloI'm Santa's representative for all the southern states. And Mexico!Registered Userregular
I would argue DC has done a much better job than Marvel representation wise
It took Marvel 18 movies to make one with a BIPOC lead (of which there is still only the one until Shang-Chi) and 21 for one starring a woman
It took DC 3 DCEU movies to make Wonder Woman and 5 for Aquaman
Neither are, like, bastions of diversity, especially when it comes to LGBTQ content, but Marvel dragged its heels for a decade (even after Perlmutter was shut down it still took years) meanwhile DC largely hit the ground running
not to turn it into "marvel vs dc" (since i don't watch much marvel TV), but again, DC TV shows are where to go for that gay shit
if the arrowverse can't make a character queer, they'll sure as shit make them accepting with no problems
fuckin' young justice has a non-binary character and gay characters
+10
Options
Bloods EndBlade of TyshallePunch dimensionRegistered Userregular
I would argue DC has done a much better job than Marvel representation wise
It took Marvel 18 movies to make one with a BIPOC lead (of which there is still only the one until Shang-Chi) and 21 for one starring a woman
It took DC 3 DCEU movies to make Wonder Woman and 5 for Aquaman
Neither are, like, bastions of diversity, especially when it comes to LGBTQ content, but Marvel dragged its heels for a decade (even after Perlmutter was shut down it still took years) meanwhile DC largely hit the ground running
I would argue DC has done a much better job than Marvel representation wise
It took Marvel 18 movies to make one with a BIPOC lead (of which there is still only the one until Shang-Chi) and 21 for one starring a woman
It took DC 3 DCEU movies to make Wonder Woman and 5 for Aquaman
Neither are, like, bastions of diversity, especially when it comes to LGBTQ content, but Marvel dragged its heels for a decade (even after Perlmutter was shut down it still took years) meanwhile DC largely hit the ground running
not to turn it into "marvel vs dc" (since i don't watch much marvel TV), but again, DC TV shows are where to go for that gay shit
if the arrowverse can't make a character queer, they'll sure as shit make them accepting with no problems
fuckin' young justice has a non-binary character and gay characters
Gotham, the only good DC show*, gave us gay Penguin and bi Barbara Gordon
*also the only one I've watched, I'm sure these are unrelated
Crippl3 on
0
Options
RingoHe/Hima distinct lack of substanceRegistered Userregular
Posts
Rip Hunter, Time Master, is still canonically his son, right?
So we know he becomes a dad at some point.
yeah at hot topic
it's deadpool+cable
Like, dude straight up confirmed that they were actively trying to squash the relationship
thanks! yeah i can definitely see that, although i can also see them doing it because they're adapting to a new industry and want to remove "roadblocks" or whatever (which doesn't make it any less homophobic, but does remove the racist "it's not us" excuse)
but also, that is one example. you said it's a pattern we're seeing a lot of. i can give you way more examples of comics/cartoons/tv shows (even narrowing it down to just superhero stuff) that have added queer representation to them
being able to edit out for other markets does not equal a "universal portrayal" like you said. quite the opposite, in fact
also, biopics ignoring the queer aspects of its subject(s) is nothing new and has nothing to do with sinophobia or non-US markets
but yeah, it's just that they love china
Hot Topics still exist? I've been scared to go to malls for like a decade because of all the zombies and kudzu
I never heard about that, yeah that seems pretty definitive.
You folks remember Sam Raimi's Oz: The Great & Powerful?
You remember that scene where Theodora, the newly formed Wicked Witch, arrives at the Emerald City and becomes focused hellfire to break through the city's magical bubble shield?
Superboy-Prime just got out of his cage and its reminding me of that.
I saw it in theaters!
I remember it! I remember it!!!
oh my god, is this what Superboy-Prime feels like???
While that's true, the practice is still manipulative and hypocritical. Giving foreign governments permission to edit their films is one thing, but isolating the content they know those governments will want to edit out from the rest of story in order to make it more convenient for them to do so takes it to a whole other level. It turns representation into a cynical ploy they can use to accumulate goodwill domestically without having to actually care about anything.
could be that, could be filmmakers acknowledging their movies will be edited and try to accommodate so that it's not a mess after. could be both!
but either way, it is not the argument you originally said that characters are having their universal portrayals changed to be less/non queer to please China and foreign markets
especially when it's hella easy to point at increased representation in media (while not ignoring where it's lacking) that counters your sinophobic post
but is he doing just fine?
Gonna make a safe claim and say, Superboy-Prime has felt better.
Even if that's true, it still means the filmmakers are valuing the structure and coherence of their plot in foreign markets above representation, a tacit approval of marginalization and partial erasure. Is that really the sort of stance we want to be supporting?
what the fuck is your argument? "they're changing queer characters for China" no they're not "well they make things easier for other countries to edit!" yeah they do "should we support that?"
support what? who here is supporting that? most people here aren't filmmakers and can't fuckin change hollywood
you made a racist post, got called out on it, and instead of addressing it you just keep changing your argument to tell us what kind of representation we should appreciate and support
Sadly no, despite all his rage he is still trapped like a rat in a cage
Sorry for being unclear earlier.
I'm just curious about people's opinions on the issue of filmmakers valuing coherent plot structure above taking a stand for full global representation, especially when the governments they are so eager to appease are among the most oppressive in the world, since it is a topic that came up over the course of the conversation and also a complex argument where good points could be made in support of either side. I thought it could be educational to hear some alternative viewpoints on it.
If anyone doesn't feel comfortable sharing their stance on this issue, they don't have to do so, of course. No pressure.
Saying we're not filmmakers and we can't change the practice feels like going too easy on Hollywood. It's excusing their moral cowardice as an inevitability. It's hiding behind Hollywood, not unlike how Hollywood hides behind China. Even if we cannot stop the practice, surely we can at least denounce it. Except, of course, those among us who live in nations where they risk imprisonment for publicly expressing such sentiments.
Lesson #1: Comic book fanboys will try to destroy everything & everyone
Lesson #2: ALWAYS invite the Joker to play...
Up next, starting tomorrow:
I remember that Mila Kunis is great in it and James Franco is James Franco playing James Franco.
Filmmakerz don't have final say on the edit of a blockbuster to begin with, but the real point is LGBTQ representation in comics and movies is because America has shitty views and its not China's fault.
{Twitter, Everybody's doing it. }{Writing and Story Blog}
Michael Cera was playing Tobey Maguire, not James Franco (in Molly's Game).
That makes a lot more sense.
Should we… should we warn him?
Fortunately, he's fairly entertaining.
(Nor is he the only one, just the first that comes to mind.)
Your mom is fairly entertaining.
Michael Ironside is more than we mere mortals deserve.
Marvel’s output when it comes to these sorts of things isn’t much different from DC or any average studio really. I don’t think there is a good reason to not assume that sort of struggle isn’t happening everywhere in the entertainment industry. Harley Quinn is being made heterosexual in some places and being allowed to be gay in others because there are some assholes pulling the strings that are either homophobic or believe homosexuality to be box office poison.
It took Marvel 18 movies to make one with a BIPOC lead (of which there is still only the one until Shang-Chi) and 21 for one starring a woman
It took DC 3 DCEU movies to make Wonder Woman and 5 for Aquaman
Neither are, like, bastions of diversity, especially when it comes to LGBTQ content, but Marvel dragged its heels for a decade (even after Perlmutter was shut down it still took years) meanwhile DC largely hit the ground running
I'm actually skipping the Countdown novelization as the reviews for it have been...
They aren't great.
not to turn it into "marvel vs dc" (since i don't watch much marvel TV), but again, DC TV shows are where to go for that gay shit
if the arrowverse can't make a character queer, they'll sure as shit make them accepting with no problems
fuckin' young justice has a non-binary character and gay characters
Also suicide squads leads.
Gotham, the only good DC show*, gave us gay Penguin and bi Barbara Gordon
*also the only one I've watched, I'm sure these are unrelated
That it's 52 Done Right?
Nah, he'll figure it out
you're a monster
No, Dan Didio is the name of the Monster.
He's just the Doctor.
Or something.