Uh, counterpoint: When facing a deadly and highly contagious virus, maybe don't make people think all's well, and they can go out socializing like normal.
No, you see it is like when the hero of Jaws, the mayor, made sure to keep the beaches open.
Wait when did Ron DeSantis get involved with this?
So, the local college is doing great. And by great, I mean they already have over a 1000 confirmed cases since telling the students "Come on back to class and live inside these concrete tombs we call dorms."
Zeynep is a professor / writer who writes lots of articles including one back in March about how telling ppl not to wear masks backfired
The tapes point to the fact that trump and others across the political spectrum knew it could spread in the air way way long ago (early February) and
Do any of you remember guidelines from health officials about ventilation and masking and etc back in February or even March?
The main guidelines were that there weren't enough masks for health care workers and the general public should focus on isolation / distancing instead of buying up N95 and surgical masks healthcare workers needed.
I mean in hindsight, yeah, there should have been a lot of focus on masks - even makeshift ones - but I feel like that one was a rock and a hard place.
The bigger failing is that the administration knew this and didn't implement the Defense Production Act back in January / February to ensure there was an adequate supply of PPE for both healthcare and the general public.
The thing about Public Health is that while it requires medical knowledge it's in many ways much more of a PR position. It's less about the facts and more about getting the public to react the way you want them to. Which means sometimes you can have all the facts but still not know wtf to do and then you fuck it all up.
shryke on
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jungleroomxIt's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovelsRegistered Userregular
Fuck Woodward for holding back those tapes when they’re the president’s own fucking words- we’re worse off because too many dipshits only listen to Trump and are killing the rest of us with their irresponsibility
The virus isn't what was insurmountable.
What was insurmountable was Trump having a good response to it, projecting 'positivity'(ie: lieing about the severity) was to make people feel better about Trump's response. They could give two fucks about anyone dieing from it or over 180k as the case may be.
Fuck Woodward for holding back those tapes when they’re the president’s own fucking words- we’re worse off because too many dipshits only listen to Trump and are killing the rest of us with their irresponsibility
Put that shit put immediately to save lives!!!!!
Yeah we don't know what the overall effect would have been, but what would have happened is Trump at least would have had to explain himself and possibly admitted "yes the virus could be bad" I mean it feels like we're in a worst case scenario, this could have only helped, but you know selling books.
Fuck Woodward.
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
Fuck Woodward for holding back those tapes when they’re the president’s own fucking words- we’re worse off because too many dipshits only listen to Trump and are killing the rest of us with their irresponsibility
Put that shit put immediately to save lives!!!!!
Yes I'm totally sure that proof that Trump did something naughty would have made a difference this time.
Like we're in worst case scenario. There is no worse than our current idiotic ham handed fucking moron response to this virus. Woodward not being a craven asshole could have saved lives perhaps thousands. But no he's Burke and this is our hell.
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
jungleroomxIt's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovelsRegistered Userregular
I'm really wondering where people get the idea that him releasing this tape does anything
At the very least doing it now means theres that slight of a chance of a tiny portion of the notoriously fickle American public remembers it at the polls.
He releases it in Feb when it hits then nothing changes AND nobody will give a shit.
None if this is new information. We knew at the time that Trump was downplaying it / not taking it seriously, and that it was a deliberate decision he was making. People who don't like Trump knew it, people who do like Trump didn't believe it, and Bob Woodward wasn't going to be the one to change anyone's mind on it in March. Or now, really.
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jungleroomxIt's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovelsRegistered Userregular
None if this is new information. We knew at the time that Trump was downplaying it / not taking it seriously, and that it was a deliberate decision he was making. People who don't like Trump knew it, people who do like Trump didn't believe it, and Bob Woodward wasn't going to be the one to change anyone's mind on it in March. Or now, really.
Yeah, this is just confirmation that he's malevolent as opposed to incompetent for the people who have absolutely not been paying attention.
My first reaction to the story was "well no fucking shit, didn't everyone know this?"
I'm really wondering where people get the idea that him releasing this tape does anything
At the very least doing it now means theres that slight of a chance of a tiny portion of the notoriously fickle American public remembers it at the polls.
He releases it in Feb when it hits then nothing changes AND nobody will give a shit.
I'm really wondering where people get the idea that him releasing this tape does anything
At the very least doing it now means theres that slight of a chance of a tiny portion of the notoriously fickle American public remembers it at the polls.
He releases it in Feb when it hits then nothing changes AND nobody will give a shit.
More masks!!!!
Stop thinking of Trump’s response
Trumps response is why we're here.
He ACTIVELY sabotaged state efforts. HE IS the reason other places could not respond how they wanted.
Some semblance of hope Jungle. We are approaching 200k dead and big news today a reporter knew the president was lying and didn't tell anyone, that feels pretty fucking bad. Like if you knew someone was going to murder someone and didn't say anything you can't go "well what I knew wouldn't have changed that murder"
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
Some semblance of hope Jungle. We are approaching 200k dead and big news today a reporter knew the president was lying and didn't tell anyone, that feels pretty fucking bad. Like if you knew someone was going to murder someone and didn't say anything you can't go "well what I knew wouldn't have changed that murder"
Like was previously said, this is not new info.
We knew he was sabotaging efforts and taking PPE from states that didn't vote for him and giving it to states that did.
We knew he sent PPE to China at our own expense, and was told multiple times of the disease and how bad it was.
The only thing the Woodward interview shows is the cliffnotes of the past 9 months of shit anyone that's been paying attention already figured out, and already he's being proclaimed as a hero for saving the US from panic and infection despite reality screaming directly into their face.
Hope is dead to me with this man, and has been for at least a year.
He had him on tape lying, its one thing to know its another thing to be flat out told "yeah I'm underselling this shit." Again this could have saved lives, but Woodward wanted to make money, that's all he cared about not the dead, but how much money he can make in what's left of his existence.
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
Woodward believes it’s notable, which is why it’s the lead for his book’s marketing
And that’s the problem
And again, if he released in feb then zero changes and nobody remembers it come November.
He will not be brought up on charges as he runs the Justice Department.
He will not be impeached because it's utterly hopeless that will do anything.
He will not be decried by his own party because lol
He will not lose his core supporters
The only hope that this changes anything at all is that it comes out with just enough time before the election for it to stick, but if the quarter billion other horrific things he's done haven't stuck then why the hell would this?
He had him on tape lying, its one thing to know its another thing to be flat out told "yeah I'm underselling this shit." Again this could have saved lives, but Woodward wanted to make money, that's all he cared about not the dead, but how much money he can make in what's left of his existence.
I wish I could express through text that this has been (time and time again) proven to not mean shit to about 43% of the country.
Anyone that isn't a shit head knew the president has been lying, all these tapes do is clarify that it wasn't pure uninformed stupidity and narcissism fueling those lies. It was informed stupidity and narcissism fueling those lies. He wasn't leading a bad response and lying because he was too dumb to know how bad the virus was, he was lying because he was so dumb he thought a pleasant lie would be better than the horrific truth.
The cynical Trump take doesn’t really work here given Woodward’s circumstances and actions
You can call it cynical if you want, I call it paying attention.
Trump killed well over 100,000 people due to his inaction. Woodward release his tape would change nothing, and there is nothing from the last 3 years and 9 months of this waking nightmare that show that it would have.
However, we've got a ton of evidence of presidents losing their race 3 months before election.
I'm not saying Woodward is squeaky clean, but maybe you should save the majority of your wrath for the man actually responsible for the nation's catastrophic response to the virus. "Maybe if Woodward had done this or that, it would have changed the narrative"? I doubt it, but I'm willing to accept there was a small chance of moving the needle.
But you know who had absolute agency and ability to change the narrative at any time? Trump. It was always Trump.
Having a hard time squaring “Trump’s own words on tape wouldn’t make a difference” in March or May or with “Trump’s own words on tape might make a difference in November”
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jungleroomxIt's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovelsRegistered Userregular
Having a hard time squaring “Trump’s own words on tape wouldn’t make a difference” in March or May or with “Trump’s own words on tape might make a difference in November”
It's about moderates actually remembering it happening, and in this case 6 months can make a big difference.
Just as a quick memory exercise, nobody in here probably remembers Vindman without googling.
I brought this to the COVID thread specifically because fuck the politics of this
Like, you don’t think it’ll make a difference, you release it anyway, even if the chance is basically zero because the risk-reward is clearly in the “try to save lives vs personal enrichment” column. And your audience is the public, not playing a “gotcha” with Trump.
If you think it’ll be noteworthy, which we know Woodward does, you really have no excuse
My *new* rage is 72% at Woodward and 28% at the way our media plays this stuff for drama and money instead of fulfilling their role of giving people information they need when they need it
Having a hard time squaring “Trump’s own words on tape wouldn’t make a difference” in March or May or with “Trump’s own words on tape might make a difference in November”
No one was voting to make a difference in March, unless you think this information would have cause Trump to change his rhetoric or get impeached.
Having a hard time squaring “Trump’s own words on tape wouldn’t make a difference” in March or May or with “Trump’s own words on tape might make a difference in November”
No one was voting to make a difference in March, unless you think this information would have cause Trump to change his rhetoric or get impeached.
Stop thinking about Trump!
It might have changed tens of thousands or more of people’s behavior earlier!
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jungleroomxIt's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovelsRegistered Userregular
Having a hard time squaring “Trump’s own words on tape wouldn’t make a difference” in March or May or with “Trump’s own words on tape might make a difference in November”
No one was voting to make a difference in March, unless you think this information would have cause Trump to change his rhetoric or get impeached.
Stop thinking about Trump!
It might have changed tens of thousands or more of people’s behavior earlier!
If thousands of doctors from around the world didn't already, why would this?
The people in this case most likely to listen to Trumps words are the exact same people going on anti-mask tirades, large country concerts, parties on the beach, and shooting store security guards for trying to make them wear it.
Having a hard time squaring “Trump’s own words on tape wouldn’t make a difference” in March or May or with “Trump’s own words on tape might make a difference in November”
No one was voting to make a difference in March, unless you think this information would have cause Trump to change his rhetoric or get impeached.
Stop thinking about Trump!
It might have changed tens of thousands or more of people’s behavior earlier!
If thousands of doctors from around the world didn't already, why would this?
The people in this case most likely to listen to Trumps words are the exact same people going on anti-mask tirades, large country concerts, parties on the beach, and shooting store security guards for trying to make them wear it.
You only need to save 1 life to make releasing the tapes when he made them worth it
Having a hard time squaring “Trump’s own words on tape wouldn’t make a difference” in March or May or with “Trump’s own words on tape might make a difference in November”
No one was voting to make a difference in March, unless you think this information would have cause Trump to change his rhetoric or get impeached.
Stop thinking about Trump!
It might have changed tens of thousands or more of people’s behavior earlier!
If thousands of doctors from around the world didn't already, why would this?
The people in this case most likely to listen to Trumps words are the exact same people going on anti-mask tirades, large country concerts, parties on the beach, and shooting store security guards for trying to make them wear it.
You only need to save 1 life to make releasing the tapes when he made them worth it
Also it’s a tape
Nah.
How many lives has Trump extinguished?
How many then would Trump being reelected take?
It's probably not the calculus being used by the author, but releasing closer to the election probably saves more lives.
Posts
*Glares in Jimmy Buffett*
The whole time, Viskod.
The whole, god damned, time.
Edit: ECU, Greenville, NC for reference.
The thing about Public Health is that while it requires medical knowledge it's in many ways much more of a PR position. It's less about the facts and more about getting the public to react the way you want them to. Which means sometimes you can have all the facts but still not know wtf to do and then you fuck it all up.
And yet people still claim he did the right thing and was 100% justified.
There is no information that will effect Trumls decisions.
Put that shit put immediately to save lives!!!!!
What was insurmountable was Trump having a good response to it, projecting 'positivity'(ie: lieing about the severity) was to make people feel better about Trump's response. They could give two fucks about anyone dieing from it or over 180k as the case may be.
Trump gets by with his base for being able to say everyone else saying stuff he doesn’t like is fake, he can’t do that with himself on tape
Yeah we don't know what the overall effect would have been, but what would have happened is Trump at least would have had to explain himself and possibly admitted "yes the virus could be bad" I mean it feels like we're in a worst case scenario, this could have only helped, but you know selling books.
Fuck Woodward.
pleasepaypreacher.net
Fucking fire Bob Woodward into the sun
Yes he absolutely can. Does it quite often.
Yes I'm totally sure that proof that Trump did something naughty would have made a difference this time.
PSN: ShogunGunshow
Origin: ShogunGunshow
Woodward has no fucking soul, this is vile
pleasepaypreacher.net
At the very least doing it now means theres that slight of a chance of a tiny portion of the notoriously fickle American public remembers it at the polls.
He releases it in Feb when it hits then nothing changes AND nobody will give a shit.
Yeah, this is just confirmation that he's malevolent as opposed to incompetent for the people who have absolutely not been paying attention.
My first reaction to the story was "well no fucking shit, didn't everyone know this?"
More masks!!!!
Stop thinking of Trump’s response
Trumps response is why we're here.
He ACTIVELY sabotaged state efforts. HE IS the reason other places could not respond how they wanted.
Pretending this changes the calculus is absurd.
pleasepaypreacher.net
Woodward believes it’s notable, which is why it’s the lead for his book’s marketing
And that’s the problem
Like was previously said, this is not new info.
We knew he was sabotaging efforts and taking PPE from states that didn't vote for him and giving it to states that did.
We knew he sent PPE to China at our own expense, and was told multiple times of the disease and how bad it was.
The only thing the Woodward interview shows is the cliffnotes of the past 9 months of shit anyone that's been paying attention already figured out, and already he's being proclaimed as a hero for saving the US from panic and infection despite reality screaming directly into their face.
Hope is dead to me with this man, and has been for at least a year.
pleasepaypreacher.net
And again, if he released in feb then zero changes and nobody remembers it come November.
He will not be brought up on charges as he runs the Justice Department.
He will not be impeached because it's utterly hopeless that will do anything.
He will not be decried by his own party because lol
He will not lose his core supporters
The only hope that this changes anything at all is that it comes out with just enough time before the election for it to stick, but if the quarter billion other horrific things he's done haven't stuck then why the hell would this?
I wish I could express through text that this has been (time and time again) proven to not mean shit to about 43% of the country.
You can call it cynical if you want, I call it paying attention.
Trump killed well over 100,000 people due to his inaction. Woodward release his tape would change nothing, and there is nothing from the last 3 years and 9 months of this waking nightmare that show that it would have.
However, we've got a ton of evidence of presidents losing their race 3 months before election.
But you know who had absolute agency and ability to change the narrative at any time? Trump. It was always Trump.
PSN: ShogunGunshow
Origin: ShogunGunshow
It's about moderates actually remembering it happening, and in this case 6 months can make a big difference.
Just as a quick memory exercise, nobody in here probably remembers Vindman without googling.
That happened in February.
I brought this to the COVID thread specifically because fuck the politics of this
Like, you don’t think it’ll make a difference, you release it anyway, even if the chance is basically zero because the risk-reward is clearly in the “try to save lives vs personal enrichment” column. And your audience is the public, not playing a “gotcha” with Trump.
If you think it’ll be noteworthy, which we know Woodward does, you really have no excuse
My *new* rage is 72% at Woodward and 28% at the way our media plays this stuff for drama and money instead of fulfilling their role of giving people information they need when they need it
No one was voting to make a difference in March, unless you think this information would have cause Trump to change his rhetoric or get impeached.
Stop thinking about Trump!
It might have changed tens of thousands or more of people’s behavior earlier!
If thousands of doctors from around the world didn't already, why would this?
The people in this case most likely to listen to Trumps words are the exact same people going on anti-mask tirades, large country concerts, parties on the beach, and shooting store security guards for trying to make them wear it.
You only need to save 1 life to make releasing the tapes when he made them worth it
Also it’s a tape
Nah.
How many lives has Trump extinguished?
How many then would Trump being reelected take?
It's probably not the calculus being used by the author, but releasing closer to the election probably saves more lives.