i feel pretty confident in saying that demon hunter was just a mistake at this point
Cool idea to add another class, just poor implementation. Way too powerful and far too slow with the nerf hammer. Who'd of thought that an aggressive class with fuel for days would be so strong?
Need a voice actor? Hire me at bengrayVO.com
Legends of Runeterra: MNCdover #moc
Switch ID: MNC Dover SW-1154-3107-1051 Steam ID Twitch Page
i feel pretty confident in saying that demon hunter was just a mistake at this point
Cool idea to add another class, just poor implementation. Way too powerful and far too slow with the nerf hammer. Who'd of thought that an aggressive class with fuel for days would be so strong?
I think the problem is that it's impossible to set up a control deck to deal with all of the variants of aggro. They require specific answers that are terrible against the other aggro decks, making the dominant strategy simply running another aggro deck.
i feel pretty confident in saying that demon hunter was just a mistake at this point
Cool idea to add another class, just poor implementation. Way too powerful and far too slow with the nerf hammer. Who'd of thought that an aggressive class with fuel for days would be so strong?
Like for real, probably the best aggro class, maybe hunter is close, and you give them (by far) the best card draw in the game? I don't understand how anybody thought that was a good idea.
Generalísimo de Fuerzas Armadas de la República Argentina
+1
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The Escape Goatincorrigible ruminantthey/themRegistered Userregular
I kept running into Big Priest. It got annoying. So, I decided to take a Shudderwock Shaman for a spin, teched against Big Priest. The plan was to just concede against any non-Big Priests.
I dropped to the point where I was playing people in Platinum 9, and no Big Priests.
OMGTHISMATCHMAKING.
Civics is not a consumer product that you can ignore because you don’t like the options presented.
i feel pretty confident in saying that demon hunter was just a mistake at this point
monk when
fucking excuse you death knight first come the fuck on
they're very clearly adding them in reverse WoW release order
Hero power costs zero and deals lethal dmg to any target. Blizz swears it’s balanced because the class has a 50% win rate.
sanstodo on
+2
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BeastehTHAT WOULD NOTKILL DRACULARegistered Userregular
edited December 2020
The last time I remember seeing a meta so saturated with a single class was probably shamanstone in MSoG
Or mech mage in GvG
Both intensely unfun and if you remember Team 5 did nothing about their sheer dominance for months
e: honorable mention to undertaker hunter in Naxx but that got nerfed fairly quickly because 'we printed a 1 mana chillwind yeti' was a fairly big mistake in retrospect
Undertaker went live on 7/22/14 and didn't get nerfed until 1/27/15. That's 191 days or 6 months and 7 days! That shit should have been squashed by the 4-6 week point. But for reasons, Team 5 didn't want to touch any cards back then. Ugh.
Need a voice actor? Hire me at bengrayVO.com
Legends of Runeterra: MNCdover #moc
Switch ID: MNC Dover SW-1154-3107-1051 Steam ID Twitch Page
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The Escape Goatincorrigible ruminantthey/themRegistered Userregular
the real tragedy was that they didn't just make undertaker a priest card
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BeastehTHAT WOULD NOTKILL DRACULARegistered Userregular
Ben Brode haaaated altering cards after they were released
I kind of get it but that's one of the perks of a digital card game honestly
+8
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ObiFettUse the ForceAs You WishRegistered Userregular
Most people I've seen report playing C'Thun decks say they actually get to play him in maybe 10-20% of their games. The vast majority of games are over one way or the other before you finally draw him. Which is fine. The payoff is ridiculously powerful, so it should be difficult to get to that point. But just something people should be aware of before crafting it.
So after this post and conversation, I went out to make a deck that could reliably get C'thun played. First order of business is to survive early game against aggro. Second order of business is to be able to draw into your pieces reliably so you can play C'thun as much as possible. I tried a bunch of different classes and eventually came up with this deck, that actually works! And it wins! Its got a ~55% winrate at Diamond 8 right now.
### Stealth C'thun
# Class: Rogue
# Format: Standard
# Year of the Phoenix
#
# 2x (0) Backstab
# 2x (0) Preparation
# 2x (0) Shadowstep
# 2x (1) Blackjack Stunner
# 2x (1) Secret Passage
# 2x (1) Spymistress
# 2x (2) Betrayal
# 2x (2) Foxy Fraud
# 2x (2) Shadow Clone
# 2x (2) Skyvateer
# 2x (2) Sneaky Delinquent
# 2x (2) Swindle
# 2x (3) Greyheart Sage
# 1x (5) Malevolent Strike
# 2x (5) Stowaway
# 1x (10) C'Thun, the Shattered
#
AAECAaIHAvHdA7/gAw60AZoC7QKGCb6uA5u2A7m4A8+5A9C5A6rLA4rUA9/dA+TdA+fdAwA=
#
# To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and create a new deck in Hearthstone
Plan is to use stealth cards early to survive against aggro and to draw against control. Prep allows early play of any C'thun cards you draw into. Stowaway grabs C'thun parts and even C'thun itself. Shadowstep is a good target for Stowaway/Sage/Stunner. But the ideal play (against control) is to keep a shadowstep (or two) for when you play C'thun. Playing C'thun in back to back turns is, well, backbreaking.
Wow, I feel extra bad since I had picked her as my champion, thus dooming her to immediate elimination.
Called it.
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ObiFettUse the ForceAs You WishRegistered Userregular
The deck draws so much and the secret doesnt usually get triggered that I can't remember a time I had a stunner I wanted to play and didn't have a secret down.
The deck could definitely be optimized or tweaked. I'm thinking the "give your hero stealth" card might be a good include since it would help against soul DH. And possibly the card that gives a stealth minion immune and +attack for the aggro matchup. Think I might try adding those in place of the secret+stunner.
I've got a few things I could sub out and in as I optimize this further, excited to see if it goes anywhere.
Well, I'm back up to the point where I'm playing against people in dumpster Legend and rank 5 Diamond again, so that's nice.
If there's one thing that my occasional sojourns into lower ranked play tell me, it's that for all of the "lolrandom" memes there really is a huge skill/knowledge gap in this game. One of the first games of my climb back up displayed the point succinctly. I was playing Raza Priest, and came up against a person playing Big Druid at Platinum 9. On turn 4, I dropped Polkelt. On T7, they dropped big minions, using Lightning Bloom to power stuff out, setting up lethal on board, and then BM emoted me with "At least your tried!" a few times while roping. During my turn, they ended up conceding, for reasons that are probably obvious for anyone who knows anything about Raza Priest. Setting aside that their path to victory was narrow to begin with, what they did pretty much ensured that they were going to lose, in a situation where a more knowledgeable/skilled player would have been like "oh, hell no, don't go all in with big minions on a Priest who has Anduin and Scream in hand on turn 8."
In a relatively small sample size over the past few days, I've seen multiple missed lethals, over-trading, a ton of sequencing problems, etc. I just played a game against Odd Paladin, where they eagerly filled their board with 1/1 dudes with divine shield. Pretty, good, right? Except that that meant that they couldn't play anything else. It meant that all the extra damage that I needed to account for was basically Blessing of Might, Eye for an Eye if they put up a secret, Light's Justice is they just wanted a 1 attack weapon, and Rallying Blade. Basically, as long as I was over 20 life, I was very likely to be safe, and played accordingly. It bought me all the time I needed to set up a lethal turn.
Don't get me wrong, people at Legend make mistakes too. Hell, my road to Legend is cluttered with me losing winnable games due to mistakes and winning despite terrible mistakes. But you don't have to drop too far to see a lot more subtle and not-so-subtle "what are you doing? No, stop, that is definitely NOT the play" moments.
Shadowhope on
Civics is not a consumer product that you can ignore because you don’t like the options presented.
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zepherinRussian warship, go fuck yourselfRegistered Userregular
I didn’t realize they had an hour counter for battlegrounds.
Not much other than the stuff Shadowhope and I talked about the other day. I'm surprised Darkglare is only T2 though.
I agree with their top five/tier 1, but I'd order is differently. Raza Priest > Secret Mage = Odd Paladin > Big Priest = Aggro Druid is how I'd order it. I really don't think that Darkglare makes the cut for T1. It loses badly to Secret Mage, it can struggle with Aggro Druid and Odd Paladin (though this is somewhat build dependent), and Raza and Big Priests are both pretty good at slowing down and blowing up big boards. Of course, there are Chinese meta reports that have Darkglare way on top.
I'm a little shocked that they had trouble finding Even Shaman. They feel like they're still pretty common to me.
With regards to DH, I think that people have started experimenting. There were Soul Shard Demon Hunters on ladder last night, and people playing a more midrange Odd DH that goes back to using Hench-Clan Thugs and Flappy Bird (Vicious Fledgling).
VS questions why people aren't playing Kingsbane, and I'll note that a Kingsbane list hit #1 Wild Legend the other day. But IMO, it's not a very good climbing deck. It has bad matchups against Aggro Druid and Big Priest, and Odd Paladin is also very challenging. People at the top of the ladder are not likely to play those decks, so Kingsbane can do its thing and stab faces for massive damage. Togwaggle Druid is in a similar position. It's gained Solar Eclipse, helping it mill people faster via Naturalize. But again, it's the sort of deck that people at the top of the ladder are playing to try to counter-queue a meta that can get very, very specific.
Civics is not a consumer product that you can ignore because you don’t like the options presented.
I checked my email and I noticed I got a Blizzard survey about Hearthstone, mainly dealing with the new expansion and the rewards track. So I threw out my impotent complaints to the Blizzard shred bin.
+3
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GoodKingJayIIIThey wanna get mygold on the ceilingRegistered Userregular
At this point I consider Demon Hunter to be an unmitigated mistake. Team 5 resisted adding a class for a long time and now I understand why.
Obviously that cat’s out of the bag now, no putting it back. But they are going to have to take some pretty aggressive action if they want to bring it in line, not the least of which is aggressive removal of busted cards to HOF (cough SKULL).
Had some strange occurrences with Yogg saying it was ready when I had not played 10 spells yet.
And Tickatus not triggering when I played a 7 Mana card.
Weird. Is Blizzard trying out nerfs and did something leak?
Wanna try my Mario Maker levels?
Shoot m to BITS (hold Y) [hard] C109-0000-014D-4E09 P-POWER Switch Palace 3838-0000-0122-9359 Raiding the Serpents Tomb 1A04-0000-0098-C11E I like to move it, move it FCE2-0000-00D7-9048
Hmmm watching this now gonna update with my thoughts after
Edit: Yeah okay so every 4 turns everyone in the game discovers one of these Darkmoon Prizes*, so turns 4/8/12/16 capping at 16 (lmao what game goes til turn 16)
They seem busted strong. Fuckin' what.
*Darkmoon Prizes, btw, are a "limited time event" :rotate:
dubs edit: Granted! This is without patch notes. We don't know what other changes may or may not be going in. They might be introducing the Hero-Specific Health Scaling that they talked about, for example. Or the Damage Flattening. Need more context! I think this is cool, I just hope they aren't SUPER BUSTED and completely break the game.
I see basically 4 decks. Aggro DH, evolve shaman, buff paladin, and midrange hunter.
Is there anything else in the meta at all? Am I the only one playing weird shit?
There seems to be plenty to me. OTK Warrior, but it might be limited to high ranks. Some Soul DH. A couple Clown Druid. Lots of Secret Rogue and Combo Rogue. Plenty of Ticket Warlock. Mages and Priests seem few and far between though.
Shadowhope on
Civics is not a consumer product that you can ignore because you don’t like the options presented.
Posts
Are you still playing then?
Legends of Runeterra: MNCdover #moc
Switch ID: MNC Dover SW-1154-3107-1051
Steam ID
Twitch Page
Yes. Against another DH.
Edit: FINALLY A PRIEST
They should be ashamed of themselves.
The first time ever someone was excited to play against a priest.
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
Cool idea to add another class, just poor implementation. Way too powerful and far too slow with the nerf hammer. Who'd of thought that an aggressive class with fuel for days would be so strong?
Legends of Runeterra: MNCdover #moc
Switch ID: MNC Dover SW-1154-3107-1051
Steam ID
Twitch Page
I think the problem is that it's impossible to set up a control deck to deal with all of the variants of aggro. They require specific answers that are terrible against the other aggro decks, making the dominant strategy simply running another aggro deck.
Like for real, probably the best aggro class, maybe hunter is close, and you give them (by far) the best card draw in the game? I don't understand how anybody thought that was a good idea.
monk when
I kept running into Big Priest. It got annoying. So, I decided to take a Shudderwock Shaman for a spin, teched against Big Priest. The plan was to just concede against any non-Big Priests.
I dropped to the point where I was playing people in Platinum 9, and no Big Priests.
OMGTHISMATCHMAKING.
Update: I have found and defeated a Big Priest.
Winning has increased my rank from 1045 to 1049.
fucking excuse you death knight first come the fuck on
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
they're very clearly adding them in reverse WoW release order
Hero power costs zero and deals lethal dmg to any target. Blizz swears it’s balanced because the class has a 50% win rate.
Or mech mage in GvG
Both intensely unfun and if you remember Team 5 did nothing about their sheer dominance for months
e: honorable mention to undertaker hunter in Naxx but that got nerfed fairly quickly because 'we printed a 1 mana chillwind yeti' was a fairly big mistake in retrospect
Legends of Runeterra: MNCdover #moc
Switch ID: MNC Dover SW-1154-3107-1051
Steam ID
Twitch Page
I kind of get it but that's one of the perks of a digital card game honestly
So after this post and conversation, I went out to make a deck that could reliably get C'thun played. First order of business is to survive early game against aggro. Second order of business is to be able to draw into your pieces reliably so you can play C'thun as much as possible. I tried a bunch of different classes and eventually came up with this deck, that actually works! And it wins! Its got a ~55% winrate at Diamond 8 right now.
### Stealth C'thun
# Class: Rogue
# Format: Standard
# Year of the Phoenix
#
# 2x (0) Backstab
# 2x (0) Preparation
# 2x (0) Shadowstep
# 2x (1) Blackjack Stunner
# 2x (1) Secret Passage
# 2x (1) Spymistress
# 2x (2) Betrayal
# 2x (2) Foxy Fraud
# 2x (2) Shadow Clone
# 2x (2) Skyvateer
# 2x (2) Sneaky Delinquent
# 2x (2) Swindle
# 2x (3) Greyheart Sage
# 1x (5) Malevolent Strike
# 2x (5) Stowaway
# 1x (10) C'Thun, the Shattered
#
AAECAaIHAvHdA7/gAw60AZoC7QKGCb6uA5u2A7m4A8+5A9C5A6rLA4rUA9/dA+TdA+fdAwA=
#
# To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and create a new deck in Hearthstone
Plan is to use stealth cards early to survive against aggro and to draw against control. Prep allows early play of any C'thun cards you draw into. Stowaway grabs C'thun parts and even C'thun itself. Shadowstep is a good target for Stowaway/Sage/Stunner. But the ideal play (against control) is to keep a shadowstep (or two) for when you play C'thun. Playing C'thun in back to back turns is, well, backbreaking.
Some games (all at Diamond rank):
https://hsreplay.net/replay/Hr4L8tqmFsubnkpSNbSRa9 (played C'thun twice here v Priest)
https://hsreplay.net/replay/TYG3hN5eRRARdkJPtNoENH (Spell Mage, could've played C'thun three times this game, played it once)
https://hsreplay.net/replay/9L3p9VCcecKikDjN38qDQn (Warrior had 26 armor at one point, played C'thun twice)
https://hsreplay.net/replay/rCx5cJCM3BHMGkvgJYfUu4 (beating a Paladin without C'thun)
The deck could definitely be optimized or tweaked. I'm thinking the "give your hero stealth" card might be a good include since it would help against soul DH. And possibly the card that gives a stealth minion immune and +attack for the aggro matchup. Think I might try adding those in place of the secret+stunner.
I've got a few things I could sub out and in as I optimize this further, excited to see if it goes anywhere.
If there's one thing that my occasional sojourns into lower ranked play tell me, it's that for all of the "lolrandom" memes there really is a huge skill/knowledge gap in this game. One of the first games of my climb back up displayed the point succinctly. I was playing Raza Priest, and came up against a person playing Big Druid at Platinum 9. On turn 4, I dropped Polkelt. On T7, they dropped big minions, using Lightning Bloom to power stuff out, setting up lethal on board, and then BM emoted me with "At least your tried!" a few times while roping. During my turn, they ended up conceding, for reasons that are probably obvious for anyone who knows anything about Raza Priest. Setting aside that their path to victory was narrow to begin with, what they did pretty much ensured that they were going to lose, in a situation where a more knowledgeable/skilled player would have been like "oh, hell no, don't go all in with big minions on a Priest who has Anduin and Scream in hand on turn 8."
In a relatively small sample size over the past few days, I've seen multiple missed lethals, over-trading, a ton of sequencing problems, etc. I just played a game against Odd Paladin, where they eagerly filled their board with 1/1 dudes with divine shield. Pretty, good, right? Except that that meant that they couldn't play anything else. It meant that all the extra damage that I needed to account for was basically Blessing of Might, Eye for an Eye if they put up a secret, Light's Justice is they just wanted a 1 attack weapon, and Rallying Blade. Basically, as long as I was over 20 life, I was very likely to be safe, and played accordingly. It bought me all the time I needed to set up a lethal turn.
Don't get me wrong, people at Legend make mistakes too. Hell, my road to Legend is cluttered with me losing winnable games due to mistakes and winning despite terrible mistakes. But you don't have to drop too far to see a lot more subtle and not-so-subtle "what are you doing? No, stop, that is definitely NOT the play" moments.
I'll probably reinstall just for BGs since those are fun, still, and require no investment.
But fuck Constructed tho.
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
Not much other than the stuff Shadowhope and I talked about the other day. I'm surprised Darkglare is only T2 though.
Maybe I should be the one called Sayge... :cool:
I agree with their top five/tier 1, but I'd order is differently. Raza Priest > Secret Mage = Odd Paladin > Big Priest = Aggro Druid is how I'd order it. I really don't think that Darkglare makes the cut for T1. It loses badly to Secret Mage, it can struggle with Aggro Druid and Odd Paladin (though this is somewhat build dependent), and Raza and Big Priests are both pretty good at slowing down and blowing up big boards. Of course, there are Chinese meta reports that have Darkglare way on top.
I'm a little shocked that they had trouble finding Even Shaman. They feel like they're still pretty common to me.
With regards to DH, I think that people have started experimenting. There were Soul Shard Demon Hunters on ladder last night, and people playing a more midrange Odd DH that goes back to using Hench-Clan Thugs and Flappy Bird (Vicious Fledgling).
VS questions why people aren't playing Kingsbane, and I'll note that a Kingsbane list hit #1 Wild Legend the other day. But IMO, it's not a very good climbing deck. It has bad matchups against Aggro Druid and Big Priest, and Odd Paladin is also very challenging. People at the top of the ladder are not likely to play those decks, so Kingsbane can do its thing and stab faces for massive damage. Togwaggle Druid is in a similar position. It's gained Solar Eclipse, helping it mill people faster via Naturalize. But again, it's the sort of deck that people at the top of the ladder are playing to try to counter-queue a meta that can get very, very specific.
Obviously that cat’s out of the bag now, no putting it back. But they are going to have to take some pretty aggressive action if they want to bring it in line, not the least of which is aggressive removal of busted cards to HOF (cough SKULL).
And Tickatus not triggering when I played a 7 Mana card.
Weird. Is Blizzard trying out nerfs and did something leak?
Shoot m to BITS (hold Y) [hard] C109-0000-014D-4E09
P-POWER Switch Palace 3838-0000-0122-9359
Raiding the Serpents Tomb 1A04-0000-0098-C11E
I like to move it, move it FCE2-0000-00D7-9048
See my profile here!
Hmmm watching this now gonna update with my thoughts after
Edit: Yeah okay so every 4 turns everyone in the game discovers one of these Darkmoon Prizes*, so turns 4/8/12/16 capping at 16 (lmao what game goes til turn 16)
They seem busted strong. Fuckin' what.
*Darkmoon Prizes, btw, are a "limited time event" :rotate:
dubs edit: Granted! This is without patch notes. We don't know what other changes may or may not be going in. They might be introducing the Hero-Specific Health Scaling that they talked about, for example. Or the Damage Flattening. Need more context! I think this is cool, I just hope they aren't SUPER BUSTED and completely break the game.
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
That was me last week. When are these changes coming again?
2008, 2012, 2014 D&D "Rare With No Sauce" League Fantasy Football Champion!
I lose if my rng sucks or the other player gets a good draw and knows how to play.
It’s not a good deck but it finds interesting ways to win/lose.
Is there anything else in the meta at all? Am I the only one playing weird shit?
There seems to be plenty to me. OTK Warrior, but it might be limited to high ranks. Some Soul DH. A couple Clown Druid. Lots of Secret Rogue and Combo Rogue. Plenty of Ticket Warlock. Mages and Priests seem few and far between though.