Seriously, this is another one of those paragraphs in a high school history book that'll be explaining why the first United States broke up that 13 year old me won't really understand why anyone would just do something so stupid.
"Look at me, so smug and above it all, haha you losers who have to live in a country full of fascists and are constantly terrified of the ramifications and are trying to stop it, haha I love living in a perfect country"
The point to impeachment that you cant convict on isnt facts or logic or whatever. Its media and narrative control. Thats why you need witnesses.
That's also why Republicans need witnesses.
So they can shit all over the airwaves as per usual. When you're dealing with opponents for whom bad faith arguments are their bread and butter, be careful with your assumptions.
I'm having a hard time getting too worked up over the witness thing, it was a complete long shot before this morning anyway. They should have pushed harder for it, but I'm guessing there were good reasons to agree to a deal and close things out, so I'm going to wait and find out what those reasons were before I get all bent out of shape about today. I just can't be angry any more. And voting to convict was never gonna happen..better to just move on and fight the next battle.
I'm having a hard time getting too worked up over the witness thing, it was a complete long shot before this morning anyway. They should have pushed harder for it, but I'm guessing there were good reasons to agree to a deal and close things out, so I'm going to wait and find out what those reasons were before I get all bent out of shape about today. I just can't be angry any more. And voting to convict was never gonna happen..better to just move on and fight the next battle.
So far the only stated reason I'm aware of is Valentine's Day.
The point to impeachment that you cant convict on isnt facts or logic or whatever. Its media and narrative control. Thats why you need witnesses.
That's also why Republicans need witnesses.
So they can shit all over the airwaves as per usual. When you're dealing with opponents for whom bad faith arguments are their bread and butter, be careful with your assumptions.
Yes, on one hand youll have witnesses saying they hid it closests from the GOP and on the other "no you didnt". Truly an unwinnable fight.
Why was the witness stuff even floated today if it was never gonna happen?
McCarthy vented to another Republican Representative about a phone call with Trump where he's pleading Trump to do something to stop it and Trumps response was literally "Well I guess these people are just more upset about the election than you are...."
That news story broke last night, and they wanted this Rep to testify, but the Republicans objected, so the compromise was that her testimony would just be a written statement to be included for the record.
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jmcdonaldI voted, did you?DC(ish)Registered Userregular
I'm having a hard time getting too worked up over the witness thing, it was a complete long shot before this morning anyway. They should have pushed harder for it, but I'm guessing there were good reasons to agree to a deal and close things out, so I'm going to wait and find out what those reasons were before I get all bent out of shape about today. I just can't be angry any more. And voting to convict was never gonna happen..better to just move on and fight the next battle.
Raskin wanted the news dump conversation between McCarthy and Trump to be officially part of the impeachment. He convinced Schumer to allow a vote for witnesses. Manchin apparently decided that there needed to be witness parity between parties, so even for the one Representative who took the notes to be put up, Trumps defense would have been able to subpoena *god only knows who* and there would have been a bunch of bullshit. And apparently Biden has been beating the “wrap it up” drum for some time.
Why was the witness stuff even floated today if it was never gonna happen?
McCarthy vented to another Republican Representative about a phone call with Trump where he's pleading Trump to do something to stop it and Trumps response was literally "Well I guess these people are just more upset about the election than you are...."
That news story broke last night, and they wanted this Rep to testify, but the Republicans objected, so the compromise was that her testimony would just be a written statement to be included for the record.
And that Trump and his defense team would not contest its veracity.
Man if they called witnesses the leftists would just complain instead that they took prescious time from covid relief and other useful legislation for more pointless grandstanding.
You all always start from the position "the Democrats fucked it up" and then work backwards to figure out what they fucked up and how.
Like I'm almost completely done with listening to complaints from the left.
life's a game that you're bound to lose / like using a hammer to pound in screws
fuck up once and you break your thumb / if you're happy at all then you're god damn dumb
that's right we're on a fucked up cruise / God is dead but at least we have booze
bad things happen, no one knows why / the sun burns out and everyone dies
I'm having a hard time getting too worked up over the witness thing, it was a complete long shot before this morning anyway. They should have pushed harder for it, but I'm guessing there were good reasons to agree to a deal and close things out, so I'm going to wait and find out what those reasons were before I get all bent out of shape about today. I just can't be angry any more. And voting to convict was never gonna happen..better to just move on and fight the next battle.
Raskin wanted the news dump conversation between McCarthy and Trump to be officially part of the impeachment. He convinced Schumer to allow a vote for witnesses. Manchin apparently decided that there needed to be witness parity between parties, so even for the one Representative who took the notes to be put up, Trumps defense would have been able to subpoena *god only knows who* and there would have been a bunch of bullshit. And apparently Biden has been beating the “wrap it up” drum for some time.
It was a stupid thing to do.
I somehow figured Manchin would be involved. If he fucked everything over to throw the GOP a bone...just ugh.. But regardless, the witnesses would not have made a lick of a difference in this. The GOP is beyond saving and has been since basically W.
I'm having a hard time getting too worked up over the witness thing, it was a complete long shot before this morning anyway. They should have pushed harder for it, but I'm guessing there were good reasons to agree to a deal and close things out, so I'm going to wait and find out what those reasons were before I get all bent out of shape about today. I just can't be angry any more. And voting to convict was never gonna happen..better to just move on and fight the next battle.
Raskin wanted the news dump conversation between McCarthy and Trump to be officially part of the impeachment. He convinced Schumer to allow a vote for witnesses. Manchin apparently decided that there needed to be witness parity between parties, so even for the one Representative who took the notes to be put up, Trumps defense would have been able to subpoena *god only knows who* and there would have been a bunch of bullshit. And apparently Biden has been beating the “wrap it up” drum for some time.
It was a stupid thing to do.
I somehow figured Manchin would be involved. If he fucked everything over to throw the GOP a bone...just ugh.. But regardless, the witnesses would not have made a lick of a difference in this. The GOP is beyond saving and has been since basically W.
I mean...Manchins not wrong here. Generally in these things there is parity.
I’m less pissed off now than I was earlier, but it was still a stupid thing to do.
Man if they called witnesses the leftists would just complain instead that they took prescious time from covid relief and other useful legislation for more pointless grandstanding.
You all always start from the position "the Democrats fucked it up" and then work backwards to figure out what they fucked up and how.
Like I'm almost completely done with listening to complaints from the left.
Okay, so what about people who are not The Left who are also pissed off at this?
At some point folks are gonna have to realize that the dude who keeps siding with the GOP over issues like the filibuster, who is on record within the last few years of saying he might vote for Trump in the last election, and sabotages the impeachment is maybe not actually a Democratic ally, despite the D next to his name.
Mostly I admit I just don't really see what purpose witnesses other than trying to get Trump in there to step on his own dick would actually serve (and honestly I'm 50/50 on whether even getting Trump in there would do anything) and my reaction was largely "huh, I wonder what the plan there is, then, cause there's gotta be a plan if they're bothering" when the "maybe witnesses" thing was floated earlier. Like, far as I can tell, the prosecution already made a slam dunk case with a topper of emotional appeal. Like normally you just have witnesses to give you a soundbite but for this case you already have a pile of soundbites and actual in-situ videos to go with them and they've been on the internet for weeks. Whoever is actually watching is either convinced or already in the tank and probably unreachable. And all the people who aren't watching aren't going to start watching just because the trial takes 3 weeks instead of 1, they pointedly don't care.
ceresWhen the last moon is cast over the last star of morningAnd the future has past without even a last desperate warningRegistered User, ModeratorMod Emeritus
Anti-Democrat and anti-Leftist screeds are both very toxic and very off-topic.
And it seems like all is dying, and would leave the world to mourn
I’m deeply confused over what positive practical effect calling witnesses or extending the impeachment hearings some believe would appear?
Democrats put forth an incredibly compelling case while republicans conspired with defense counsel.
Meanwhile, most Americans aren’t paying attention and would not pay attention unless Trump testified, if only to watch the train wreck.
Everything a witness says is under oath and penalty of perjury. Even if Trump not being impeached is a foregone conclusion, everything would be evidence able to be used to charge him in criminal and civil court.
Which hey, Mitch McConnell was out there saying Trump is guilty as hell but he didn't think this was the right venue to hold him accountable. Weird how he opposed a measure that would have helped convict Trump in those other venues, eh? (Not weird, McConnell is a snake who lies every time his lips flap.)
Man if they called witnesses the leftists would just complain instead that they took prescious time from covid relief and other useful legislation for more pointless grandstanding.
You all always start from the position "the Democrats fucked it up" and then work backwards to figure out what they fucked up and how.
Like I'm almost completely done with listening to complaints from the left.
Okay, so what about people who are not The Left who are also pissed off at this?
At some point folks are gonna have to realize that the dude who keeps siding with the GOP over issues like the filibuster, who is on record within the last few years of saying he might vote for Trump in the last election, and sabotages the impeachment is maybe not actually a Democratic ally, despite the D next to his name.
Get rid of Manchin. See what you get as a replacement. From West Virginia.
Manchin is the last D of any variety we'll see from there for the next 20 years.
At some point folks are gonna have to realize that the dude who keeps siding with the GOP over issues like the filibuster, who is on record within the last few years of saying he might vote for Trump in the last election, and sabotages the impeachment is maybe not actually a Democratic ally, despite the D next to his name.
I know it's the same old argument that is always made, but someone could always primary him and then there would be someone with an R next to his name in that seat.
I am constantly pissed at Manchin, but the R from W. Virginia would be like the Rs from Kentucky.
This doesn’t really seem to be split neatly into a leftist-liberal kind of way. There seems to be plenty of indifferent leftists, plenty of liberals who are real mad about it.
i would say i am mostly on the "indifferent" side because I didn't really expect much to come of this yet I admit I am also a little on the "mad" side at just how little they even tried, real loser energy
Man if they called witnesses the leftists would just complain instead that they took prescious time from covid relief and other useful legislation for more pointless grandstanding.
You all always start from the position "the Democrats fucked it up" and then work backwards to figure out what they fucked up and how.
Like I'm almost completely done with listening to complaints from the left.
At some point folks are gonna have to realize that the dude who keeps siding with the GOP over issues like the filibuster, who is on record within the last few years of saying he might vote for Trump in the last election, and sabotages the impeachment is maybe not actually a Democratic ally, despite the D next to his name.
Get rid of Manchin. See what you get as a replacement. From West Virginia.
Manchin is the last D of any variety we'll see from there for the next 20 years.
if he consistently votes with republicans, then the D by his name is purely symbolic anyway
At some point folks are gonna have to realize that the dude who keeps siding with the GOP over issues like the filibuster, who is on record within the last few years of saying he might vote for Trump in the last election, and sabotages the impeachment is maybe not actually a Democratic ally, despite the D next to his name.
Get rid of Manchin. See what you get as a replacement. From West Virginia.
Manchin is the last D of any variety we'll see from there for the next 20 years.
if he consistently votes with republicans, then the D by his name is purely symbolic anyway
He doesn't, though. He just voted for impeachment for a start.
i think i would probably prefer an r just on the grounds that I would have more accurate numbers on when there are enough guys in the senate to do something
At some point folks are gonna have to realize that the dude who keeps siding with the GOP over issues like the filibuster, who is on record within the last few years of saying he might vote for Trump in the last election, and sabotages the impeachment is maybe not actually a Democratic ally, despite the D next to his name.
Get rid of Manchin. See what you get as a replacement. From West Virginia.
Manchin is the last D of any variety we'll see from there for the next 20 years.
if he consistently votes with republicans, then the D by his name is purely symbolic anyway
He doesn't, though. He just voted for impeachment for a start.
All four votes. Straight D for Constitutionality twice, witnesses, and conviction.
Say what they want, without Manchin we still have Senate Leader McConnell. He might be the worst Democratic Senator (Feinstein tho...) but he is far and away a stolen seat.
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syndalisGetting ClassyOn the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Productsregular
Don’t be mad at manchin.
Be mad at other places where a democrat had a chance of winning and didn’t, making Manchin more important than he should be.
Without Manchin, we don’t have Harris. And he voted to convict trump.
SW-4158-3990-6116
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
Man if they called witnesses the leftists would just complain instead that they took prescious time from covid relief and other useful legislation for more pointless grandstanding.
You all always start from the position "the Democrats fucked it up" and then work backwards to figure out what they fucked up and how.
Like I'm almost completely done with listening to complaints from the left.
done implies yall started at some point
yes, me, personally, over the last four years or so, I have been listening!
And now I'm starting to think that for the left staking out moral high ground is more important than actual progress so why should I keep listening?
life's a game that you're bound to lose / like using a hammer to pound in screws
fuck up once and you break your thumb / if you're happy at all then you're god damn dumb
that's right we're on a fucked up cruise / God is dead but at least we have booze
bad things happen, no one knows why / the sun burns out and everyone dies
Posts
"Look at me, so smug and above it all, haha you losers who have to live in a country full of fascists and are constantly terrified of the ramifications and are trying to stop it, haha I love living in a perfect country"
Democrats put forth an incredibly compelling case while republicans conspired with defense counsel.
Meanwhile, most Americans aren’t paying attention and would not pay attention unless Trump testified, if only to watch the train wreck.
Testimony under oath.
The point to impeachment that you cant convict on isnt facts or logic or whatever. Its media and narrative control. Thats why you need witnesses.
That's also why Republicans need witnesses.
So they can shit all over the airwaves as per usual. When you're dealing with opponents for whom bad faith arguments are their bread and butter, be careful with your assumptions.
So far the only stated reason I'm aware of is Valentine's Day.
Yes, on one hand youll have witnesses saying they hid it closests from the GOP and on the other "no you didnt". Truly an unwinnable fight.
McCarthy vented to another Republican Representative about a phone call with Trump where he's pleading Trump to do something to stop it and Trumps response was literally "Well I guess these people are just more upset about the election than you are...."
That news story broke last night, and they wanted this Rep to testify, but the Republicans objected, so the compromise was that her testimony would just be a written statement to be included for the record.
Raskin wanted the news dump conversation between McCarthy and Trump to be officially part of the impeachment. He convinced Schumer to allow a vote for witnesses. Manchin apparently decided that there needed to be witness parity between parties, so even for the one Representative who took the notes to be put up, Trumps defense would have been able to subpoena *god only knows who* and there would have been a bunch of bullshit. And apparently Biden has been beating the “wrap it up” drum for some time.
It was a stupid thing to do.
I think you're underestimating how good the Republicans and their media machine are at spinning whatever nrrative they want.
That's one of the benefits of not being restricted by little concerns such as morals, accuracy, dignity, etc.
And that Trump and his defense team would not contest its veracity.
You all always start from the position "the Democrats fucked it up" and then work backwards to figure out what they fucked up and how.
Like I'm almost completely done with listening to complaints from the left.
fuck up once and you break your thumb / if you're happy at all then you're god damn dumb
that's right we're on a fucked up cruise / God is dead but at least we have booze
bad things happen, no one knows why / the sun burns out and everyone dies
I somehow figured Manchin would be involved. If he fucked everything over to throw the GOP a bone...just ugh.. But regardless, the witnesses would not have made a lick of a difference in this. The GOP is beyond saving and has been since basically W.
No Im not. The Dems lose media narrative fights because they do stupid shit like this.
I mean...Manchins not wrong here. Generally in these things there is parity.
I’m less pissed off now than I was earlier, but it was still a stupid thing to do.
Okay, so what about people who are not The Left who are also pissed off at this?
Everything a witness says is under oath and penalty of perjury. Even if Trump not being impeached is a foregone conclusion, everything would be evidence able to be used to charge him in criminal and civil court.
Which hey, Mitch McConnell was out there saying Trump is guilty as hell but he didn't think this was the right venue to hold him accountable. Weird how he opposed a measure that would have helped convict Trump in those other venues, eh? (Not weird, McConnell is a snake who lies every time his lips flap.)
Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
Like me, this time.
Get rid of Manchin. See what you get as a replacement. From West Virginia.
Manchin is the last D of any variety we'll see from there for the next 20 years.
I know it's the same old argument that is always made, but someone could always primary him and then there would be someone with an R next to his name in that seat.
I am constantly pissed at Manchin, but the R from W. Virginia would be like the Rs from Kentucky.
Trump won Manchin's territory by 39 points.
Get rid of him, enjoy the replacement you get, all I'm saying. Again, pragmatism.
done implies yall started at some point
if he consistently votes with republicans, then the D by his name is purely symbolic anyway
he keeps siding with republicans on vital procedural shit, and now add to that on impeachment.
You don’t get more pragmatic than “Why are we holding onto the guy who keeps giving power to the other side, again?”
He doesn't, though. He just voted for impeachment for a start.
All four votes. Straight D for Constitutionality twice, witnesses, and conviction.
Say what they want, without Manchin we still have Senate Leader McConnell. He might be the worst Democratic Senator (Feinstein tho...) but he is far and away a stolen seat.
Be mad at other places where a democrat had a chance of winning and didn’t, making Manchin more important than he should be.
Without Manchin, we don’t have Harris. And he voted to convict trump.
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
It Begins.
EDIT: transcript and citations
EDIT2: 666 replies at the time of above edit
The point of the Impeachment trial was the media game, which the Democrats have now lost since Chris Coons gave the quote everyone will remember:
Brian Beutler is the Editor In Chief of Crooked Media, which I guess are a bunch of Leftists now
yes, me, personally, over the last four years or so, I have been listening!
And now I'm starting to think that for the left staking out moral high ground is more important than actual progress so why should I keep listening?
fuck up once and you break your thumb / if you're happy at all then you're god damn dumb
that's right we're on a fucked up cruise / God is dead but at least we have booze
bad things happen, no one knows why / the sun burns out and everyone dies