But am I the only one who thinks Rend and Tear sounds terrible? A tier 10 ability that gives 10% damage to two abilities and 50% increased crit in the age of resilience and scaling bleed damage. No thanks, I'd rather spend those points in naturalist on my way to OOC.
reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
edited August 2008
Well, 10% damage on Maul means more threat, 10% damage on Shred means more dps, and apparently Ferocious Bite is better damage when it crits than Rip is.
kinda trivial but cool... a normal rez. It never happens a lot but when it does I get pissed if I have to use my 1 30min cd rez on someone outside of a bossfight
But am I the only one who thinks Rend and Tear sounds terrible? A tier 10 ability that gives 10% damage to two abilities and 50% increased crit in the age of resilience and scaling bleed damage. No thanks, I'd rather spend those points in naturalist on my way to OOC.
Yes, it's fairly crappy. A talent in that spot that is for cat dps, as well as bear, should absolutely be giving a 10% dps buff of more and it's not.
But am I the only one who thinks Rend and Tear sounds terrible? A tier 10 ability that gives 10% damage to two abilities and 50% increased crit in the age of resilience and scaling bleed damage. No thanks, I'd rather spend those points in naturalist on my way to OOC.
Yes, it's fairly crappy. A talent in that spot that is for cat dps, as well as bear, should absolutely be giving a 10% dps buff of more and it's not.
well at least you don't HAVE to take it. you can just blow some points in lower talents to get enrage if you want.
edit: I'm trying to figure out the best way to burst dps in kitty with these new talents.
should it be: pounce>Berserk>Mangle>Tigers Fury> Shred>shred>shred>Ferocious Bite?
or should the FB be replaced with a maim followed by more shreds since maim isn't broken on first damage anymore?
edit2: or hell maybe throw in a savage roar immediately after hitting berserk for even more damage over the duration of berserk.
Some pretty massive changes to the Balance tree there... Looking at the new talents I'm not sure whether it would be best to just grab everything in Balance or to pick up Master Shapeshifter and Omen of Clarity. Hmm!
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kaleeditySometimes science is more art than scienceRegistered Userregular
reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
edited August 2008
That Balance build will never work. Everyone will expect you to bring Imp FF and Earth and Moon (unless if EnM doesn't stack with other similar buffs).
That Balance build will never work. Everyone will expect you to bring Imp FF and Earth and Moon (unless if EnM doesn't stack with other similar buffs).
They don't stack. Curse of Elements is a free 10% from any warlock, and a full 13% from an affliction lock, and ebon plague is a likely 13% from a non-tank unholy DK. Both of those specs can more easily afford the points.
Imp. FF is duplicated with shadow priest misery. I'd say keep it in the build if it still buffed melee hit, but it doesn't. If no one gets 3% haste, it's not a big deal, and you get to save yourself a GCD from casting it.
Wouldn't Dreamstate be more efficient than Intensity for mana regen? I've not done my maths here, but I'm just thinking of the Moonkin reliance on Intellect over Spirit.
Wouldn't Dreamstate be more efficient than Intensity for mana regen? I've not done my maths here, but I'm just thinking of the Moonkin reliance on Intellect over Spirit.
I don't think it is, from glancing at posts on the EJ forums, and from what I remembered of the mana regen changes several months ago. But the points are easily enough swapped, for whatever happens to be higher.
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reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
edited August 2008
Imp. FF is duplicated with shadow priest misery. I'd say keep it in the build if it still buffed melee hit, but it doesn't. If no one gets 3% haste, it's not a big deal, and you get to save yourself a GCD from casting it.
I noticed the changes to Earth and Moon but completely missed that they nerfed Imp FF. Yeah, it doesn't look too hot as it is.
Wouldn't Dreamstate be more efficient than Intensity for mana regen? I've not done my maths here, but I'm just thinking of the Moonkin reliance on Intellect over Spirit.
There's gonna be a shitload of Spirit on all WotLK cloth/leather caster gear. Changes are Intensity will be better.
I just noticed something that REALLY bothers me about Rend and Tear:
It's 5 points to get a 10% bonus to Maul, Shred, and a 50% crit bonus to Ferocious Bite, to bleeding targets. The Ferocious Bite one is big... but you really have to compared FB with that talent to what you'd use otherwise: Rip. IE, if FB is 75% as good as Rip, then a 50% bonus to FB would only make it 12.5% better than Rip.
What REALLY bothers me, though is when you take a look at Savage Fury, which is 2 points for 20% more damage on both Mangles and Maul. And this doesn't require a bleeding target, either (while they'll be bleeding most of the time, you start a fight out with Maul + Mangle, so they aren't bleeding until after your initial burst of aggro).
It's just... so WEAK compared to a talent MUCH lower on the tree.
Savage Fury should increase the bear attack damage and reduce lacerate cost while Shredding attack should increase cat attack damage and reduce Shred energy cost. If they really want this do this properly.
Furor seems very clunky. Your spell damage and mana regen when go down when you leave moonkin form...it seems it would be easier to reduce the Heart of the Wild int by 10% and just have a general 10% int gain.
So my druid got 65, and was not looking forward to doing the huge quest chains in nagrand for the third time. The boss fights are ok, but all the bullshit kill/collect quests in between get old, especially in a zone that spread out. Come home from work today, and my entire nagrand quest log is full with (Completed) next to it! My girlfriend pumped out all those quests for me today, and got me from 65 to 66 through the turn ins!
Best. Girlfriend. Ever.
EWom on
Whether they find a life there or not, I think Jupiter should be called an enemy planet.
So my druid got 65, and was not looking forward to doing the huge quest chains in nagrand for the third time. The boss fights are ok, but all the bullshit kill/collect quests in between get old, especially in a zone that spread out. Come home from work today, and my entire nagrand quest log is full with (Completed) next to it! My girlfriend pumped out all those quests for me today, and got me from 65 to 66 through the turn ins!
Best. Girlfriend. Ever.
Go get her some flowers right now.
And cook her a romantic dinner.
And buy her something nice on the AH.
MuddBudd on
There's no plan, there's no race to be run
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
So whats a good guardian elixir for a feral druid? I assume Major agility is the best battle, since it gives dodge, ap, crit. I might be offtanking in Zul Aman tonight so I want to know what to get.
I'm looking for a spec for the live version of the game that we all play right now, not WoLK spec. I don't really know if there is an optimal PVP and PVE feral spec.
EWom on
Whether they find a life there or not, I think Jupiter should be called an enemy planet.
why is everybody making level 80 builds? Nobody is going to be 80 for a month of two after the 3.0 patch comes out.
I've been doing 70 builds with the new talents, and the most disappointing thing for a feral build is that you can't get both Berserk and Omen of Clarity at 70.
So I know that the poster like RIGHT above me is hating on making level 80 builds etc...but I have a question I would like you guys to entertain.
Hear me out now:
How viable will a Moonkin caster-based tank be in WoTLK especially considering the removal of crushing blows and the change to spell pushback mechanics?
Is it do-able? is the gear just not there? IF the gear WAS there would it be doable?
What would be a good spec(s) now (to get ready for it practice etc) and (as far as we know) when WoTLK comes out?
I am interested how this would work, especially when paired with...say...a discipline priest with the awesome shield talents.
(I am totally gonna be a disc priest and my girlfriend wants to tank but wants to be a moonkin at the same time)
why is everybody making level 80 builds? Nobody is going to be 80 for a month of two after the 3.0 patch comes out.
I've been doing 70 builds with the new talents, and the most disappointing thing for a feral build is that you can't get both Berserk and Omen of Clarity at 70.
Just like how you couldn't get mangle and OoC at 60
why is everybody making level 80 builds? Nobody is going to be 80 for a month of two after the 3.0 patch comes out.
I've been doing 70 builds with the new talents, and the most disappointing thing for a feral build is that you can't get both Berserk and Omen of Clarity at 70.
There's a lot of reasons.
- Because we're bored
- Because we want something to bitch about
- Because we want to know if we get to be OP or not
- Because a few of us are in the beta
That said, I think I can agree with two points you are trying to make:
- It's going to be a while still before it comes out, and a lot is going to change.
- There's going to be a period of time where we'll have to deal with level 70 builds.
Unfortunately, something that kills a lot of things is that a lot of the numbers are all screwed up right now.
End on
I wish that someway, somehow, that I could save every one of us
For cat form, Omen of Clarity means about 25% more shreds, assuming 4ppm. Berserk, in fights 3 minutes or longer, means about 5-9% more shreds, generally diminishing towards 5% the longer the fight goes (though it becomes more effective again in 5-minute intervals, as the cooldown comes up). That is a rather fucking gigantic difference. Even if you use Berserk to break a fear, it will only manage to come close to the effectiveness of Omen of Clarity in extreme circumstances (you're breaking 15 seconds of crowd control at a moment where you're at full energy in a fight that is lasting just long enough for you to do it twice).
The effectiveness of the Last Stand is... I don't know if it'll be great. 30% of your life is somewhere around one or two hits from a hard-hitting boss. Considering dodge is getting shat on, and druid's armor is getting shat on (apparently, warriors won't have MUCH more armor than druids), you're most likely to take those two hits and die four seconds later Yes, it can save a wipe... but how often are you in a situation where four seconds will make the difference for healers to get a heal off, and you recognize it in time? Last Stand doesn't hold a candle to Shield Wall, which can keep a warrior up even when 3/4ths of the healers are dead, which is just the sort of thing that very often DOES turn a wipe into a win. Last Stand is only really useful in conjunction with Shield Wall, where your one free hit turns into four.
The triple maul and mangle is nice, of course... but that's it. You can't rely on it unless if trash is going to take five minutes to kill and will have so many uncontrollable mobs that you need three to be tanked by a druid. I really doubt that will be the case.
I'd take OOC over Berserking any day, but I'll be bitter as shit about it.
For cat form, Omen of Clarity means about 25% more shreds, assuming 4ppm. Berserk, in fights 3 minutes or longer, means about 5-9% more shreds, generally diminishing towards 5% the longer the fight goes (though it becomes more effective again in 5-minute intervals, as the cooldown comes up). That is a rather fucking gigantic difference. Even if you use Berserk to break a fear, it will only manage to come close to the effectiveness of Omen of Clarity in extreme circumstances (you're breaking 15 seconds of crowd control at a moment where you're at full energy in a fight that is lasting just long enough for you to do it twice).
The effectiveness of the Last Stand is... I don't know if it'll be great. 30% of your life is somewhere around one or two hits from a hard-hitting boss. Considering dodge is getting shat on, and druid's armor is getting shat on (apparently, warriors won't have MUCH more armor than druids), you're most likely to take those two hits and die four seconds later Yes, it can save a wipe... but how often are you in a situation where four seconds will make the difference for healers to get a heal off, and you recognize it in time? Last Stand doesn't hold a candle to Shield Wall, which can keep a warrior up even when 3/4ths of the healers are dead, which is just the sort of thing that very often DOES turn a wipe into a win. Last Stand is only really useful in conjunction with Shield Wall, where your one free hit turns into four.
The triple maul and mangle is nice, of course... but that's it. You can't rely on it unless if trash is going to take five minutes to kill and will have so many uncontrollable mobs that you need three to be tanked by a druid. I really doubt that will be the case.
I'd take OOC over Berserking any day, but I'll be bitter as shit about it.
I'll agree on the cat thing, but saying "you're most likely to take those two hits and die four seconds later" is quite impressively stupid. Last stand does have a use, an it will on occasion save your life and thus the lives of your group/raid. In many fights with a fear or silence mechanic those four seconds will be priceless, and even in boss fights that lack any of the aspects that makes this talent especially useful (like enrages, boss adds, AOE effects) it can still save your life with a bit of skill.
I am not saying don't take OOC, of course. I see no reason why any feral druid should not have both. EDIT: Nevermind, read up.
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But am I the only one who thinks Rend and Tear sounds terrible? A tier 10 ability that gives 10% damage to two abilities and 50% increased crit in the age of resilience and scaling bleed damage. No thanks, I'd rather spend those points in naturalist on my way to OOC.
Steam id: skoot LoL id: skoot
Yes, it's fairly crappy. A talent in that spot that is for cat dps, as well as bear, should absolutely be giving a 10% dps buff of more and it's not.
well at least you don't HAVE to take it. you can just blow some points in lower talents to get enrage if you want.
edit: I'm trying to figure out the best way to burst dps in kitty with these new talents.
should it be: pounce>Berserk>Mangle>Tigers Fury> Shred>shred>shred>Ferocious Bite?
or should the FB be replaced with a maim followed by more shreds since maim isn't broken on first damage anymore?
edit2: or hell maybe throw in a savage roar immediately after hitting berserk for even more damage over the duration of berserk.
5 -man bear focus
5-man cat focus
They don't stack. Curse of Elements is a free 10% from any warlock, and a full 13% from an affliction lock, and ebon plague is a likely 13% from a non-tank unholy DK. Both of those specs can more easily afford the points.
Imp. FF is duplicated with shadow priest misery. I'd say keep it in the build if it still buffed melee hit, but it doesn't. If no one gets 3% haste, it's not a big deal, and you get to save yourself a GCD from casting it.
I don't think it is, from glancing at posts on the EJ forums, and from what I remembered of the mana regen changes several months ago. But the points are easily enough swapped, for whatever happens to be higher.
I noticed the changes to Earth and Moon but completely missed that they nerfed Imp FF. Yeah, it doesn't look too hot as it is.
There's gonna be a shitload of Spirit on all WotLK cloth/leather caster gear. Changes are Intensity will be better.
It's 5 points to get a 10% bonus to Maul, Shred, and a 50% crit bonus to Ferocious Bite, to bleeding targets. The Ferocious Bite one is big... but you really have to compared FB with that talent to what you'd use otherwise: Rip. IE, if FB is 75% as good as Rip, then a 50% bonus to FB would only make it 12.5% better than Rip.
What REALLY bothers me, though is when you take a look at Savage Fury, which is 2 points for 20% more damage on both Mangles and Maul. And this doesn't require a bleeding target, either (while they'll be bleeding most of the time, you start a fight out with Maul + Mangle, so they aren't bleeding until after your initial burst of aggro).
It's just... so WEAK compared to a talent MUCH lower on the tree.
Furor seems very clunky. Your spell damage and mana regen when go down when you leave moonkin form...it seems it would be easier to reduce the Heart of the Wild int by 10% and just have a general 10% int gain.
Best. Girlfriend. Ever.
Go get her some flowers right now.
And cook her a romantic dinner.
And buy her something nice on the AH.
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
AKA [PA]Ilovepandas
Any examples of good feral specs? By PVP I mean BG's not arena too.
I've been doing 70 builds with the new talents, and the most disappointing thing for a feral build is that you can't get both Berserk and Omen of Clarity at 70.
Hear me out now:
How viable will a Moonkin caster-based tank be in WoTLK especially considering the removal of crushing blows and the change to spell pushback mechanics?
Is it do-able? is the gear just not there? IF the gear WAS there would it be doable?
What would be a good spec(s) now (to get ready for it practice etc) and (as far as we know) when WoTLK comes out?
I am interested how this would work, especially when paired with...say...a discipline priest with the awesome shield talents.
(I am totally gonna be a disc priest and my girlfriend wants to tank but wants to be a moonkin at the same time)
Just like how you couldn't get mangle and OoC at 60
There's a lot of reasons.
- Because we're bored
- Because we want something to bitch about
- Because we want to know if we get to be OP or not
- Because a few of us are in the beta
That said, I think I can agree with two points you are trying to make:
- It's going to be a while still before it comes out, and a lot is going to change.
- There's going to be a period of time where we'll have to deal with level 70 builds.
Unfortunately, something that kills a lot of things is that a lot of the numbers are all screwed up right now.
The effectiveness of the Last Stand is... I don't know if it'll be great. 30% of your life is somewhere around one or two hits from a hard-hitting boss. Considering dodge is getting shat on, and druid's armor is getting shat on (apparently, warriors won't have MUCH more armor than druids), you're most likely to take those two hits and die four seconds later Yes, it can save a wipe... but how often are you in a situation where four seconds will make the difference for healers to get a heal off, and you recognize it in time? Last Stand doesn't hold a candle to Shield Wall, which can keep a warrior up even when 3/4ths of the healers are dead, which is just the sort of thing that very often DOES turn a wipe into a win. Last Stand is only really useful in conjunction with Shield Wall, where your one free hit turns into four.
The triple maul and mangle is nice, of course... but that's it. You can't rely on it unless if trash is going to take five minutes to kill and will have so many uncontrollable mobs that you need three to be tanked by a druid. I really doubt that will be the case.
I'd take OOC over Berserking any day, but I'll be bitter as shit about it.
I'll agree on the cat thing, but saying "you're most likely to take those two hits and die four seconds later" is quite impressively stupid. Last stand does have a use, an it will on occasion save your life and thus the lives of your group/raid. In many fights with a fear or silence mechanic those four seconds will be priceless, and even in boss fights that lack any of the aspects that makes this talent especially useful (like enrages, boss adds, AOE effects) it can still save your life with a bit of skill.
I am not saying don't take OOC, of course. I see no reason why any feral druid should not have both. EDIT: Nevermind, read up.
and I wasn't looking down on people making the 80 builds, i was just surprised I was the only one making 70 builds.
I've been told I'm going to doing arenas with my cousin & his friends.
I assume it skips treeform and goes into either balance or feral for FC or for improved cyclone/roots? but don't know.
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=0zjZVMhoZVcIxcq0xsx tada.
edit: sometimes they work in insect swarm for points out of resto too.
Subtlety?
I'm not doubting or arguing, I'm just wondering what the rationale is.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
For dispel resistance.