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So tomorrow I'm going book shopping

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Posts

  • naporeonnaporeon Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Drez wrote:
    naporeon wrote:
    Drez wrote:
    Callius wrote:
    I'm pretty sure that being a smug self-centered cunt whose entire advice is "only look out for number 1 and fuck the rest... oh yeah, cigarettes rock" is pretty much a surefire way to be branded as a smug self-centered cunt.

    Again, this has nothing to do with her abilities as a writer. "Poisoning the well" is a very popular logical fallacy. If you don't like her as a writer or her writings, that's fine, different tastes and all that, but you can't say "she's a bad writer because she's a pretentious douchebag," because it doesn't necessarily follow.
    Incorrect.

    Rand, as both a novelist and self-styled "philosopher," couched her personal code of "rational egoism" in most of her works, essentially turning them into Objectivist parables at best, and manifestos at worst. Her bankrupt philosophy forms the bedrock upon which all of her writing--even her fiction--lies. Therefore it is perfectly rational to dislike her writing because one disagrees with her philosophy, as the two are inseparable.

    No, no, it's entirely correct, sorry. Saying "incorrect" doesn't make your claim any more logical or less of a fallacy, which is precisely what "poisoning the well" is, regardless of how you may rationalize it. Yes, one's philosophies certainly can and usually do factor into a work. But your talk of manifestos, parables, etc. just proves that you are doing nothing more than coloring your opinion of her writing based on her principles (or lack of principles, depending on your perspective).

    You can say you don't like Ayn Rand as a person. You can say you don't like The Fountainhead or what have you because it has content you don't enjoy reading about. But you cannot say someone is a bad writer solely because of her philosophies and that they spill into her books as content. Being a "good writer" or "bad writer" really has very little to do with the content they choose to use.

    That is my only point. You can dislike Ayn Rand, her books, and her writing in general if you like, but do so for the right reasons. I don't really have any personal opinion of her. I think she touches on some interesting points, but I disagree with Objectivism in it's entirety. And yet, I don't think she is a bad writer. I think The Fountainhead is a well-constructed novel regardless of the philosophical content presented. When I say "good writer" I speak of building tension, fleshing out characters, and so forth. I think she did a good job of writing an interesting book, even if Howard Roark and the lot of them could die in a fire and I wouldn't give two shits.

    edit: I understand your point, naporean, and I forgive it because I do it too in many circumstances. If you and I got into a fist fight, I most likely will not enjoy your taunting haiku as you chant it at me because, at the time, I hate your guts and want to pound your face in. People do that all the time. But it's still logically false to do so.
    Well, here's how I see it: There is more to writing than technical ability. There is also content. And when your content is little more than a clumsy transcription of your personal philosophy into novel form, I think people are completely within their rights to condemn it for that reason. There is absolutely nothing illogical about this.

    EDIT: n-a-p-o-r-e-o-n
    EDIT 2: Kisses.
    EDIT 3:
    Hey, let's not fight, Drez.
    Also, Dreamgirls gets eight nods?
    I mean, what the fuck?

    naporeon on
  • DarkPrimusDarkPrimus premium Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Hunter wrote:
    Callius wrote:
    I heard a great joke the other day.

    What does reading Ayn Rand and shooting up heroin have in common?

    They both make you an asshole for at least two years.

    I wouldn't cross the street to piss on Ayn Rand if she was on fire.

    I see you've studied Objectivism. I mean, what possible gain would you have from helping her? :P

    DarkPrimus on
    dt3GeqU.png
    Gamertag: PrimusD | Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
  • PiptheFairPiptheFair Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    DarkPrimus wrote:
    Hunter wrote:
    Callius wrote:
    I heard a great joke the other day.

    What does reading Ayn Rand and shooting up heroin have in common?

    They both make you an asshole for at least two years.

    I wouldn't cross the street to piss on Ayn Rand if she was on fire.

    I see you've studied Objectivism. I mean, what possible gain would you have from helping her? :P
    dude


    no



    we're not having an ethics debate here



    oh God



    it's out of control already

    PiptheFair on
  • DefenderDefender Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    ETHICS DEBATE? WHERE?

    Defender on
    hello massa, I jar jar binks
    I've overheard someone say "Don't say something is retarded, its not cool to make fun of retards. Just say its gay."
  • naporeonnaporeon Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Defender wrote:
    ETHICS DEBATE? WHERE?
    I am very tempted to sig this. I can almost see you doing a spit-take to this.

    naporeon on
  • Darth WaiterDarth Waiter Elrond Hubbard Mordor XenuRegistered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Defender wrote:
    ETHICS DEBATE? WHERE?

    You assholes know better than to get him worked up like that....

    Darth Waiter on
  • DarkPrimusDarkPrimus premium Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Defender wrote:
    ETHICS DEBATE? WHERE?

    D&D! :arrow:

    DarkPrimus on
    dt3GeqU.png
    Gamertag: PrimusD | Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
  • Forever ZefiroForever Zefiro orbital frame in the zone of the endersRegistered User regular
    edited January 2007
    The good thing about working at GameStop is I get a 30% discount at Barnes & Noble

    So I just got back from buying Snow Crash, Good Omens, American Gods, and Dune, all for $29. Of course I got the small cheap paperback versions so that my dollar would go farther

    Forever Zefiro on
    2fbg9lin3kdl.jpg
    XBL - Foreverender | 3DS FC - 1418 6696 1012 | Steam ID | LoL
  • fallaxdracofallaxdraco Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    The good thing about working at GameStop is I get a 30% discount at Barnes & Noble

    So I just got back from buying Snow Crash, Good Omens, American Gods, and Dune, all for $29. Of course I got the small cheap paperback versions so that my dollar would go farther

    Those are all great books. :^:

    fallaxdraco on
  • Forever ZefiroForever Zefiro orbital frame in the zone of the endersRegistered User regular
    edited January 2007
    I'm really excited, so much so that I'm eating my Moe's burrito faster than normal so that I can get started

    The question is, which one first

    Forever Zefiro on
    2fbg9lin3kdl.jpg
    XBL - Foreverender | 3DS FC - 1418 6696 1012 | Steam ID | LoL
  • fallaxdracofallaxdraco Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    I'm really excited, so much so that I'm eating my Moe's burrito faster than normal so that I can get started

    The question is, which one first

    Snow Crash is the most entertaining, but Good Omens is funnier. The other two are really good, but a little self-serious.

    fallaxdraco on
  • MasterDebaterMasterDebater Registered User
    edited January 2007
    Snow Crash

    You won't regret it

    MasterDebater on
    ZeroZero wrote:
    Rule 645: You can not add "core" the end of a word and call it a metal genre
    Fuck you, country-core is awesome.
  • RankenphileRankenphile Passersby were amazed by the unusually large amounts of blood.Registered User, Moderator mod
    edited January 2007
    Snow Crash was great, but I was honestly disappoint ed that the amazingly fuckawesome writing style of teh first few chapters didn't hold up through the rest of the book. Not that the story itself wasn't great, but the first chapter alone was so fucking balls-out awesome that I was really disappointed when the pace slackened.

    Rankenphile on
  • joshgotrojoshgotro Queen CityRegistered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Snow Crash was great, but I was honestly disappoint ed that the amazingly fuckawesome writing style of teh first few chapters didn't hold up through the rest of the book. Not that the story itself wasn't great, but the first chapter alone was so fucking balls-out awesome that I was really disappointed when the pace slackened.

    I concur.

    Also don't read Snow Crash first if other people are getting into Stephensen.

    joshgotro on
  • Forever ZefiroForever Zefiro orbital frame in the zone of the endersRegistered User regular
    edited January 2007
    joshgotro wrote:
    Snow Crash was great, but I was honestly disappoint ed that the amazingly fuckawesome writing style of teh first few chapters didn't hold up through the rest of the book. Not that the story itself wasn't great, but the first chapter alone was so fucking balls-out awesome that I was really disappointed when the pace slackened.

    I concur.

    Also don't read Snow Crash first if other people are getting into Stephensen.

    What do you mean? Why?

    Forever Zefiro on
    2fbg9lin3kdl.jpg
    XBL - Foreverender | 3DS FC - 1418 6696 1012 | Steam ID | LoL
  • rockmonkeyrockmonkey Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Snow Crash then American Gods. I like Gaiman & Pratchett but Good Omens was my least favorite.

    rockmonkey on
    NEWrockzomb80.jpg
  • joshgotrojoshgotro Queen CityRegistered User regular
    edited January 2007
    joshgotro wrote:
    Snow Crash was great, but I was honestly disappoint ed that the amazingly fuckawesome writing style of teh first few chapters didn't hold up through the rest of the book. Not that the story itself wasn't great, but the first chapter alone was so fucking balls-out awesome that I was really disappointed when the pace slackened.

    I concur.

    Also don't read Snow Crash first if other people are getting into Stephensen.

    What do you mean? Why?
    I personally think it's his best.

    The Diamond Age is a really long read. Quicksilver is a huge mountain. You wont make it through those if Snow Crash is your first taste.

    joshgotro on
  • Mai-KeroMai-Kero Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    joshgotro wrote:
    Snow Crash was great, but I was honestly disappoint ed that the amazingly fuckawesome writing style of teh first few chapters didn't hold up through the rest of the book. Not that the story itself wasn't great, but the first chapter alone was so fucking balls-out awesome that I was really disappointed when the pace slackened.

    I concur.

    Also don't read Snow Crash first if other people are getting into Stephensen.

    Why?

    Also I just read Anansi Boys and Neverwhere. Both were fantastic.

    Mai-Kero on
  • MasterDebaterMasterDebater Registered User
    edited January 2007
    joshgotro wrote:
    joshgotro wrote:
    Snow Crash was great, but I was honestly disappoint ed that the amazingly fuckawesome writing style of teh first few chapters didn't hold up through the rest of the book. Not that the story itself wasn't great, but the first chapter alone was so fucking balls-out awesome that I was really disappointed when the pace slackened.

    I concur.

    Also don't read Snow Crash first if other people are getting into Stephensen.

    What do you mean? Why?
    I personally think it's his best.

    The Diamond Age is a really long read. Quicksilver is a huge mountain. You wont make it through those if Snow Crash is your first taste.

    It was the opposite for me. I read Snow Crash and Cryptonomicon, then Diamond Age, then the Baroque Cycle.

    All I'm saying is that Snow Crash is as good a place as any to start.

    MasterDebater on
    ZeroZero wrote:
    Rule 645: You can not add "core" the end of a word and call it a metal genre
    Fuck you, country-core is awesome.
  • Mai-KeroMai-Kero Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    joshgotro wrote:
    joshgotro wrote:
    Snow Crash was great, but I was honestly disappoint ed that the amazingly fuckawesome writing style of teh first few chapters didn't hold up through the rest of the book. Not that the story itself wasn't great, but the first chapter alone was so fucking balls-out awesome that I was really disappointed when the pace slackened.

    I concur.

    Also don't read Snow Crash first if other people are getting into Stephensen.

    What do you mean? Why?
    I personally think it's his best.

    The Diamond Age is a really long read. Quicksilver is a huge mountain. You wont make it through those if Snow Crash is your first taste.

    It was the opposite for me. I read Snow Crash and Cryptonomicon, then Diamond Age, then the Baroque Cycle.

    All I'm saying is that Snow Crash is as good a place as any to start.
    I want to get the Baroque Cycle, but it's out of stock at all my local borders. How good is Diamond Age?

    Mai-Kero on
  • Forever ZefiroForever Zefiro orbital frame in the zone of the endersRegistered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Snow Crash it is then.

    I saw Cryptonomicon there too, and it looked really interesting.

    Forever Zefiro on
    2fbg9lin3kdl.jpg
    XBL - Foreverender | 3DS FC - 1418 6696 1012 | Steam ID | LoL
  • RankenphileRankenphile Passersby were amazed by the unusually large amounts of blood.Registered User, Moderator mod
    edited January 2007
    Snow Crash it is then.

    I saw Cryptonomicon there too, and it looked really interesting.

    It is, but longbook is looooooooooong, as the saying goes

    Rankenphile on
  • FortyTwoFortyTwo strongest man in the world The Land of Pleasant Living Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    I just finished reading Less Than Zero. Good book, very disturbing imagery.

    I don't know what to buy next. Either Catch 22 or A Brave New World

    FortyTwo on
  • jimninjajimninja Registered User
    edited January 2007
    FortyTwo wrote:
    I just finished reading Less Than Zero. Good book, very disturbing imagery.

    I don't know what to buy next. Either Catch 22 or A Brave New World

    Catch-22 is much funnier. A Brave New World honestly fucked me up the last time I tried to read it, I had to stop. I should give it another run.

    jimninja on
    0198ec55.jpg
  • LardalishLardalish Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    I need to stop going to the bookstore. Every time I go I get somethin, today it was Flowers for Algernon, last time it was the first book in the Archer's Tale, the time before that it was..... Beowulf's Children.

    Damnit, I dont have a job and Im blowin all my monies on books! Damn you reading! Why do you have to be so awesome!

    Lardalish on
  • MorivethMoriveth ESCA FLOWNERegistered User regular
    edited January 2007
    I keep thinking this thread says "So tomorrow I'm going book stomping."

    Moriveth on
  • LaXLaX Registered User
    edited January 2007
    Moriveth wrote:
    I keep thinking this thread says "So tomorrow I'm going book stomping."

    That's for Nazi's that are to young to play with matches...

    LaX on
    THIS SPACE FOR RENT
  • JenniferJennifer Registered User
    edited January 2007
    Book I just read. It was pretty funny.

    Jennifer on
    Framling wrote: »
    I think he may have been some manner of hobo.
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