Wyrmrest has a cloak at honored, and a chest at revered.
Arget Crusade has legs at honored, and the helm enchant at revered.
Ebon blade has boots at honored.
Valiance Expedition/Warsong Offensive has a shield at revered. They also have a 1h mace with dodge on it, but no defense, so it could do you in a pinch if you have nothing else.
Kirin Tor has gloves at Exalted, but you'll likely find better way before then. Not to mention that there's absolutely nothing else there for warriors.
Wyrmrest also has boots at revered.
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
edited March 2009
New PTR build notes.
Arms
* Taste for Blood now gives you a 33/66/100% chance of allowing the use of your Overpower ability for 5 secs whenever your Rend ability causes damage. This talent will not occur more than once every 6 sec.
Fury
* Titan's Grip now reduces your physical damage done by 10% when dual-wielding two-handed weapons.
Glyph
* Glyph of Heroic Strike - You gain 10 rage when you critically strike with your Heroic Strike ability. (Old - Increases the critical strike chance of Heroic Strike by 5%.)
* Glyph of Last Stand - Reduces the cooldown of your Last Stand ability by 1 min. (Old - Also reduced the maximum health gained by 10%.)
Looks like the heroic strike glyph is being reverted to the current live realm thinger. 10 rage. Woo.
ack mine dps! It will be fun to see how the TG nerf plays out for Fury DPS in PVE raids.
It's going to work out fine. And the same people bitching about it are probably the ones who suggested it.
Work out fine? That moves me from first on Patchwerk to ....6th? What's fine about that? Okay, we need a nerf, fine. But... 10% seems way out of whack.
You have to factor in the PVE armor nerf, as well as "everyone else getting nerfed as well"
I always thought Fury was supposed to be the definitive Warrior PVE dps tree? Ugh Blizzard. They now want to make Arms = Fury on dps? Will a Disp. priest be as good as healing as a shadow priest at healing, while a holy priest does as much damage as a S. Priest?
With all the class changes, we will have to wait and see. Do any of the guilds that are destroying Uluduar have their dmg meters up?
They actually stated that their goal is a 5-way tie for healing potency, with disc priest = holy priest = resto druid = resto shaman = holy paladin.
and a million way tie with all hybrid dps with arms = fury = furry = shadow = unholy = blood = frost = enhancement = elemental = balance = whatever else i missed.
and a million way tie with all 'pure' dps with fire = frost = arcane = marksmanship = survival = beast mastery = subtlety = assassination = combat = demonology = affliction = destruction
things be changing. with the reversal of the absolutely retarded heroic strike glyph nerf, 3.1 is a bit closer to being stomachable. I probably won't try to push for being invited to 10m hardmode encounter learning nights in ulduar, but should have no trouble farming them.
Now if the devs would take a look at some of the QoL issues with warrior buffs...
ack mine dps! It will be fun to see how the TG nerf plays out for Fury DPS in PVE raids.
It's going to work out fine. And the same people bitching about it are probably the ones who suggested it.
Work out fine? That moves me from first on Patchwerk to ....6th? What's fine about that? Okay, we need a nerf, fine. But... 10% seems way out of whack.
It's more than 10% due to rage loss and you probably shouldn't even be first to begin with, but that's a different discussion.
I also don't understand the pure versus hybrid issue that the devs seem to have. Outside of a single class that has two specs in a single tree and a single fight where dependent on your strategy you want to bring a single hybrid off healer and a hybrid tank you rarely if ever choose to bring some one because they might be able to tank. Maybe dual specs will change this or the design of fights will change where being a hybrid will be advantageous, but punishing every single hybrid because there might have be a single extra raid spot for them seems like a terrible design decision.
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
Their initial WLK design had frost being the "tank" tree, they're right now moving away from that. They want all three DK specs to work for tanking.
Which is odd, because the way I see it each DK tree has a tank talent here and there, but for the most part they're all DPS. So it's like the class' base stats and skills are responsible for the build of things.
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
ack mine dps! It will be fun to see how the TG nerf plays out for Fury DPS in PVE raids.
It's going to work out fine. And the same people bitching about it are probably the ones who suggested it.
Work out fine? That moves me from first on Patchwerk to ....6th? What's fine about that? Okay, we need a nerf, fine. But... 10% seems way out of whack.
It's more than 10% due to rage loss and you probably shouldn't even be first to begin with, but that's a different discussion.
I also don't understand the pure versus hybrid issue that the devs seem to have. Outside of a single class that has two specs in a single tree and a single fight where dependent on your strategy you want to bring a single hybrid off healer and a hybrid tank you rarely if ever choose to bring some one because they might be able to tank. Maybe dual specs will change this or the design of fights will change where being a hybrid will be advantageous, but punishing every single hybrid because there might have be a single extra raid spot for them seems like a terrible design decision.
The only "hybrid" that should allowed to be a hybrid in the swing of battle is the shaman. As it stands, they've made some steps toward it. Getting AP and spellpower at the same time emphasizes this. Druids have to shapeshift and spec and gear swap for certain tasks. An elemental shaman, on the other hand, can toss out half-assed non-talented heals and still be relatively more effective at healing than a druid who is shifting out of cat form and casting heals, but still in cat gear. This I have no issue with. And it's also why I despise the druid class because if I'm gonna do one of the specs, I may as well be a rogue, warrior, elemental shaman, or resto shaman.
Their initial WLK design had frost being the "tank" tree, they're right now moving away from that. They want all three DK specs to work for tanking.
What I don't understand about that is that Blood and Unholy were both nerfed for tanking more than Frost was, so doesn't that kind of push Frost more toward being the tank tree than it is now? I'm referring to Vampiric Blood and Bone Shield both being put on 2 minute cooldowns while Unbreakable Armor is still 1 minute, by the way.
And, since release, Unholy has been a great tanking tree considering Bone Shield's potential uptime (and the fact that it was 40% fucking damage reduction until the first nerf) and its great AoE damage.
I also don't understand the pure versus hybrid issue that the devs seem to have. Outside of a single class that has two specs in a single tree and a single fight where dependent on your strategy you want to bring a single hybrid off healer and a hybrid tank you rarely if ever choose to bring some one because they might be able to tank. Maybe dual specs will change this or the design of fights will change where being a hybrid will be advantageous, but punishing every single hybrid because there might have be a single extra raid spot for them seems like a terrible design decision.
This. Except at the top end of min/maxing, raids aren't looking for somebody who can DPS who can heal in a pinch, or tank in a pinch. They're looking for tanks, DPS, and healers, and there's little reason to bring hybrid DPS if they bring systematically lower damage output. This was part of their whole "bring the player, not the class" crusade. If two players, both DPS, have a 5% damage disparity between them, why would you bring the lower one to progression content?
I also don't understand the pure versus hybrid issue that the devs seem to have. Outside of a single class that has two specs in a single tree and a single fight where dependent on your strategy you want to bring a single hybrid off healer and a hybrid tank you rarely if ever choose to bring some one because they might be able to tank. Maybe dual specs will change this or the design of fights will change where being a hybrid will be advantageous, but punishing every single hybrid because there might have be a single extra raid spot for them seems like a terrible design decision.
This. Except at the top end of min/maxing, raids aren't looking for somebody who can DPS who can heal in a pinch, or tank in a pinch. They're looking for tanks, DPS, and healers, and there's little reason to bring hybrid DPS if they bring systematically lower damage output. This was part of their whole "bring the player, not the class" crusade. If two players, both DPS, have a 5% damage disparity between them, why would you bring the lower one to progression content?
Dual spec isn't really going to fix that.
That is pretty much my exact point. Its even worse for warriors in my opinion because half our best in slot is leather so you could potentially gear a rogue almost as easily because of it.
Their initial WLK design had frost being the "tank" tree, they're right now moving away from that. They want all three DK specs to work for tanking.
What I don't understand about that is that Blood and Unholy were both nerfed for tanking more than Frost was, so doesn't that kind of push Frost more toward being the tank tree than it is now? I'm referring to Vampiric Blood and Bone Shield both being put on 2 minute cooldowns while Unbreakable Armor is still 1 minute, by the way.
And, since release, Unholy has been a great tanking tree considering Bone Shield's potential uptime (and the fact that it was 40% fucking damage reduction until the first nerf) and its great AoE damage.
I can't really explain what the hell blizzard is doing either.
All we really have to go off is stuff like this quote from Ghostcrawler:
Frost is not intended as the tanking tree. DKs should be able to tank using appropriate builds from all 3 trees. It is likely that some builds will be superior for some encounters of course.
When we originally designed the DK, Frost was going to be the tanking tree. We later soured on that implementation.
All tanking classes are intended to be highly competitive with each other, such that all tanks can complete all encounters with slight favoritism for certain tanking mechanics in certain fights.
All healing classes are intended to be highly competitive with each other, such that all healers can heal all encounters with slight favoritism for certain healing mechanics in certain fights.
All classes are intended to be highly competitive with each other in the realm of DPS, such that classes that can only DPS are highly competitive with each other, and classes that can heal or tank in addition to DPS are slightly behind the classes that cannot. However, the classes that can heal or tank in addition to DPS should be highly competitive with each other.
I am a big fan of their design goals. At a very high level, they make sense. It'll require razor-edge balance to get things in line with the goals, though. I highly doubt that 3.1 will put anything at all close to in line with those goals.
I am a big fan of their design goals. At a very high level, they make sense. It'll require razor-edge balance to get things in line with the goals, though. I highly doubt that 3.1 will put anything at all close to in line with those goals.
On a similar note, I'm a big fan of Ghostcrawler. I think he's the best thing to happen to the WoW staff since November 2004.
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
edited March 2009
Everyone IS currently within 5% damage of each other, with the exception of splitting caster and melee DPS at high gear levels on short fights.
Stop being doom and gloom.
This isn't the official forums and it gets tiresome you guys acting like Blizzard doesn't know what they are doing.
Everyone IS currently within 5% damage of each other, with the exception of splitting caster and melee DPS at high gear levels on short fights.
Stop being doom and gloom.
This isn't the official forums and it gets tiresome you guys acting like Blizzard doesn't know what they are doing.
They do, so shut up.
I don't think anyone is being doom and gloom. Derpimacow.
More Arms Changes
* Improved Intercept and Weapon Mastery have once again swapped places in the talent tree.
* New Talent: Juggernaut: Grants the warrior the ability to Charge while in combat.
* Unrelenting Assault: Now also increases the damage of Overpower and Revenge by 10/20%, and causes Overpower (when used to attack a casting target) to decrease the effectiveness of all the target’s non-physical damage and healing by 25/50% for 6 seconds. Tooltip and visual updated.
Everyone IS currently within 5% damage of each other, with the exception of splitting caster and melee DPS at high gear levels on short fights.
Stop being doom and gloom.
This isn't the official forums and it gets tiresome you guys acting like Blizzard doesn't know what they are doing.
They do, so shut up.
I don't think anyone is being doom and gloom. Derpimacow.
More Arms Changes
* Improved Intercept and Weapon Mastery have once again swapped places in the talent tree.
* New Talent: Juggernaut: Grants the warrior the ability to Charge while in combat.
* Unrelenting Assault: Now also increases the damage of Overpower and Revenge by 10/20%, and causes Overpower (when used to attack a casting target) to decrease the effectiveness of all the target’s non-physical damage and healing by 25/50% for 6 seconds. Tooltip and visual updated.
Everyone IS currently within 5% damage of each other, with the exception of splitting caster and melee DPS at high gear levels on short fights.
Stop being doom and gloom.
This isn't the official forums and it gets tiresome you guys acting like Blizzard doesn't know what they are doing.
They do, so shut up.
I don't think anyone is being doom and gloom. Derpimacow.
More Arms Changes
* Improved Intercept and Weapon Mastery have once again swapped places in the talent tree.
* New Talent: Juggernaut: Grants the warrior the ability to Charge while in combat. * Unrelenting Assault: Now also increases the damage of Overpower and Revenge by 10/20%, and causes Overpower (when used to attack a casting target) to decrease the effectiveness of all the target’s non-physical damage and healing by 25/50% for 6 seconds. Tooltip and visual updated.
Wait, what?
Woah, that is actually pretty damn nice. Nice way to stick it to casters.
Holy paladins now have a 2 minute "haha, can't interrupt me!" ability that will make them much stronger against, well, just about everything. That's probably a change to compensate for the infusion of light nerf, no more 1 second holy lights, so now paladins have a 2 minute cooldown that lets them get away with 2 second holy lights.
However, warriors are now looking to be a pretty vicious anti-holy paladin. You've got a bubble breaker and a way to cut healing without using an interrupt. Other healers, while still being hurt by the overpower change, can rely on instants far more than paladins can.
The overpower change shouldn't really do anything for offensive spellcasters, if you are taking a warrior in melee while casting an offensive spell you probably aren't worth the effort to interrupt anyways.
Looks like warriors are being set up as anti-paladins.
If that works on bosses, that is amazing. That what I would like to see arms to become, the raid utility tree. Decent dps but great buffs and shit for the raid.
The overpower change shouldn't really do anything for offensive spellcasters, if you are taking a warrior in melee while casting an offensive spell you probably aren't worth the effort to interrupt anyways.
I see this really messing with Warlocks. Sure you can still get that Fear off, but for 6 seconds after that any dots you cast are basically useless.
The overpower change shouldn't really do anything for offensive spellcasters, if you are taking a warrior in melee while casting an offensive spell you probably aren't worth the effort to interrupt anyways.
I see this really messing with Warlocks. Sure you can still get that Fear off, but for 6 seconds after that any dots you cast are basically useless.
I haven't played in months, but from what I hear warlocks are almost a non-factor in PvP right now. I don't know why you wouldn't pummel the fear, unless you have berserker rage ready and the warlock isn't targetting anyone but you with the fear. A good warlock won't try to fear you without some way to actually get it off, a bad warlock is probably not something to really worry about.
Like I said, seems like a change specifically designed to kill paladins and, to a lesser extent, resto shamans who try and healtank warriors. Against an offensive spellcaster, they'll likely only use CC spells when in melee range of a warrior, so you're better off using a pummel. If pummel isn't available and they're still in melee, I guess its a nice buff but I don't see it changing any matchups.
If that works on bosses, that is amazing. That what I would like to see arms to become, the raid utility tree. Decent dps but great buffs and shit for the raid.
Has anyone seen how Arms stacks up DPS wise on the PTR?
I'm still more intrigued by Arms than I am by Fury. I don't know why.
Fury is boring? Titan's Grip was incredibly fun for about fifteen minutes, then you realize you have two buttons (bloodthirst and whirlwind) to use. Or you can be a TOP TIER Fury warrior and you use about 6 buttons.
I guess Arms isn't dramatically better, but you can pretend it is! Should you slam or rend? OOH DECISIONS!
Posts
Wyrmrest also has boots at revered.
Looks like the heroic strike glyph is being reverted to the current live realm thinger. 10 rage. Woo.
It's going to work out fine. And the same people bitching about it are probably the ones who suggested it.
I always thought Fury was supposed to be the definitive Warrior PVE dps tree? Ugh Blizzard. They now want to make Arms = Fury on dps? Will a Disp. priest be as good as healing as a shadow priest at healing, while a holy priest does as much damage as a S. Priest?
With all the class changes, we will have to wait and see. Do any of the guilds that are destroying Uluduar have their dmg meters up?
I think there's nothing wrong with arms and fury both being good at pve dps, and pvp, they'll still play differently.
and a million way tie with all hybrid dps with arms = fury = furry = shadow = unholy = blood = frost = enhancement = elemental = balance = whatever else i missed.
and a million way tie with all 'pure' dps with fire = frost = arcane = marksmanship = survival = beast mastery = subtlety = assassination = combat = demonology = affliction = destruction
things be changing. with the reversal of the absolutely retarded heroic strike glyph nerf, 3.1 is a bit closer to being stomachable. I probably won't try to push for being invited to 10m hardmode encounter learning nights in ulduar, but should have no trouble farming them.
Now if the devs would take a look at some of the QoL issues with warrior buffs...
People seem to be complaining that this is not the cast, where the DK nerfs enough to make people want to bring a Warrior again>
Should be Feral=Frost=Blood=Unholy=Prot=Prot, though.
It's more than 10% due to rage loss and you probably shouldn't even be first to begin with, but that's a different discussion.
I also don't understand the pure versus hybrid issue that the devs seem to have. Outside of a single class that has two specs in a single tree and a single fight where dependent on your strategy you want to bring a single hybrid off healer and a hybrid tank you rarely if ever choose to bring some one because they might be able to tank. Maybe dual specs will change this or the design of fights will change where being a hybrid will be advantageous, but punishing every single hybrid because there might have be a single extra raid spot for them seems like a terrible design decision.
Which is odd, because the way I see it each DK tree has a tank talent here and there, but for the most part they're all DPS. So it's like the class' base stats and skills are responsible for the build of things.
The only "hybrid" that should allowed to be a hybrid in the swing of battle is the shaman. As it stands, they've made some steps toward it. Getting AP and spellpower at the same time emphasizes this. Druids have to shapeshift and spec and gear swap for certain tasks. An elemental shaman, on the other hand, can toss out half-assed non-talented heals and still be relatively more effective at healing than a druid who is shifting out of cat form and casting heals, but still in cat gear. This I have no issue with. And it's also why I despise the druid class because if I'm gonna do one of the specs, I may as well be a rogue, warrior, elemental shaman, or resto shaman.
And, since release, Unholy has been a great tanking tree considering Bone Shield's potential uptime (and the fact that it was 40% fucking damage reduction until the first nerf) and its great AoE damage.
This. Except at the top end of min/maxing, raids aren't looking for somebody who can DPS who can heal in a pinch, or tank in a pinch. They're looking for tanks, DPS, and healers, and there's little reason to bring hybrid DPS if they bring systematically lower damage output. This was part of their whole "bring the player, not the class" crusade. If two players, both DPS, have a 5% damage disparity between them, why would you bring the lower one to progression content?
Dual spec isn't really going to fix that.
That is pretty much my exact point. Its even worse for warriors in my opinion because half our best in slot is leather so you could potentially gear a rogue almost as easily because of it.
Even after 3.1, I highly doubt anyone's raid damage meters are going to look like this:
1-8: Only hunters, mages, rogues, and warlocks.
8-18: DPS spec death knights, druids, paladins, priests, shamans, and warriors.
I can't really explain what the hell blizzard is doing either.
All we really have to go off is stuff like this quote from Ghostcrawler:
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=15443531602&sid=1&pageNo=18#343
Paladins = Plate wearing Primary Healer, Tank, Secondary DPS
DK = Plate wearing Primary Tank, Secondary DPS
All healing classes are intended to be highly competitive with each other, such that all healers can heal all encounters with slight favoritism for certain healing mechanics in certain fights.
All classes are intended to be highly competitive with each other in the realm of DPS, such that classes that can only DPS are highly competitive with each other, and classes that can heal or tank in addition to DPS are slightly behind the classes that cannot. However, the classes that can heal or tank in addition to DPS should be highly competitive with each other.
I am a big fan of their design goals. At a very high level, they make sense. It'll require razor-edge balance to get things in line with the goals, though. I highly doubt that 3.1 will put anything at all close to in line with those goals.
the idea is that everybody is a "primary" everything and "secondary" nothing
Stop being doom and gloom.
This isn't the official forums and it gets tiresome you guys acting like Blizzard doesn't know what they are doing.
They do, so shut up.
I don't think anyone is being doom and gloom. Derpimacow.
More Arms Changes
* Improved Intercept and Weapon Mastery have once again swapped places in the talent tree.
* New Talent: Juggernaut: Grants the warrior the ability to Charge while in combat.
* Unrelenting Assault: Now also increases the damage of Overpower and Revenge by 10/20%, and causes Overpower (when used to attack a casting target) to decrease the effectiveness of all the target’s non-physical damage and healing by 25/50% for 6 seconds. Tooltip and visual updated.
Wait, what?
Sounds like a really neat mechanic. Opens up a lot of possibilities.
Woah, that is actually pretty damn nice. Nice way to stick it to casters.
Holy paladins now have a 2 minute "haha, can't interrupt me!" ability that will make them much stronger against, well, just about everything. That's probably a change to compensate for the infusion of light nerf, no more 1 second holy lights, so now paladins have a 2 minute cooldown that lets them get away with 2 second holy lights.
However, warriors are now looking to be a pretty vicious anti-holy paladin. You've got a bubble breaker and a way to cut healing without using an interrupt. Other healers, while still being hurt by the overpower change, can rely on instants far more than paladins can.
The overpower change shouldn't really do anything for offensive spellcasters, if you are taking a warrior in melee while casting an offensive spell you probably aren't worth the effort to interrupt anyways.
Looks like warriors are being set up as anti-paladins.
I see this really messing with Warlocks. Sure you can still get that Fear off, but for 6 seconds after that any dots you cast are basically useless.
I haven't played in months, but from what I hear warlocks are almost a non-factor in PvP right now. I don't know why you wouldn't pummel the fear, unless you have berserker rage ready and the warlock isn't targetting anyone but you with the fear. A good warlock won't try to fear you without some way to actually get it off, a bad warlock is probably not something to really worry about.
Like I said, seems like a change specifically designed to kill paladins and, to a lesser extent, resto shamans who try and healtank warriors. Against an offensive spellcaster, they'll likely only use CC spells when in melee range of a warrior, so you're better off using a pummel. If pummel isn't available and they're still in melee, I guess its a nice buff but I don't see it changing any matchups.
They tried this already.
It sucked.
I'm still more intrigued by Arms than I am by Fury. I don't know why.
Fury is boring? Titan's Grip was incredibly fun for about fifteen minutes, then you realize you have two buttons (bloodthirst and whirlwind) to use. Or you can be a TOP TIER Fury warrior and you use about 6 buttons.
I guess Arms isn't dramatically better, but you can pretend it is! Should you slam or rend? OOH DECISIONS!