being forced to kill his buddy again for real this time and level up his heroism
abu nazir is a damn genius
Similarly, I think the plot will be something like
Walker is set to shoot someone, that if Brody went along with the plan, might be him. We know Brody swore something to Nazir, but we don't know what. Being a "secret Muslim" may just be the hint that Brody is willing to become a martyr for him.
Yikes. Going to be one heck of a season finale. I thought they were going to go the Manchurian Candidate route; but that doesn't look the case.
Well, you can bet that this option is on the table.
I don't think Brody will blow up everyone. He will either decide against it at the last second, or arrange for only the VP (who is a dick) to get killed.
This episode confirmed my belief that
Director David "The Black Guy" Estes
is the mole in the agency. He pretty much needs to be taken down now that
he was ordered by the VP to fire somebody. Carrie being batshit crazy takes all the stomach churning guilt out of the decision. Not the mole.
My take on the mole
is that it must be the VP, or somebody we have not met on his staff. Remember, Brody was informed that the VP would ask him to run for office. I don't see David having that information.
I don't remember that being a direct "order" and more of a wink-wink "keep on eye on Carrie and let us know of anything odd and good things will happen for you" to that guy on the team. He's been in every episode since but hasn't worked side-by-side with Carrie since Saul came back into the fold full-time.
The VP is the mole, he worked with Abu Nazir in an attempt to gain the presidency. The bombing apparently took place 8 years ago so the VP was in office at the time. Anyway, Brody (Winters) is tasked with killing the VP, but his real role in the whole scheme is to be killed by the black sniper guy. The VP is running on a platform of America first, so showing that al Qaeda still wants to kill Americans on American soil might work to his favor, plus the whole survived a terrorist attack thing might boost his poll numbers. It couldnt be that hard to convince the sniper guy to kill his former friend after Brody tried to kill him.
I really doubt the VP is actually working with Nazir. Maybe one has fed information to the other, but I really doubt there's any outright collaboration.
I was kind of expecting this season's finale to be concerned with stopping Walker, and Brody gets into office, next season is about dealing with Brody, but it seems like they're not doing that.
I'm siding with no mole, because remember when we see the Saudi with diplomatic immunity meet Walker? They're on the street at night. The Saudi tells them the meet is in a park at noon. I think the sign he gave was the "shit lads, we're rumbled" sign, though he probably didn't expect to be killed for it. Everything else can, I think, be ascribed to Brody or Walker: Brody slips a blade to the guy in interrogation, Walker sees the CIA tailing the lecturer, whatever else. They haven't really been pushing the mole aspect, just bringing it up as a possibility, so I think it's definitely possible that it's a red herring.
The bit at the end said Carrie was on Administrative Leave, not actually fired, which I think is good. In real life you don't come back from being fired in disgrace for illegal surveillance and everything else. Only being on leave gives them a very real way to bring her back, and if they do a second season I'd certainly prefer if she's still working officially, because we've got enough crappy consultant shows already.
And finally, to end all this ranting: Claire Danes is the ugliest crier. Even in Romeo and Juliet, like 10 years ago, she could go so suddenly from hot to oh-god-what's-wrong just by starting to cry.
I just marathoned this show over the last couple days on a recommendation and wow. Why isn't it Sunday yet!?
Some thoughts
I really don't want Estes to be the mole. Everything he's done up to this point makes perfect sense for someone who is just concerned with, well, keeping their job and serving their country. The way Carrie gets back into the CIA has to be something about the attack that she correctly predicts, and Saul stands up for her afterwards.
But predicting what's going to happen on this show is a fool's errand, so who knows.
So yeah. Still no word on the mole. Second season plot is a go, though.
I'm a little concerned with Abu Nazir. I mean, shouldn't he have thought of that? DID he already think of that, and was basically setting this up as a Xanatos Gambit?
So yeah. Still no word on the mole. Second season plot is a go, though.
I'm a little concerned with Abu Nazir. I mean, shouldn't he have thought of that? DID he already think of that, and was basically setting this up as a Xanatos Gambit?
It wouldn't surprise me. The original plan was freaking brilliant.
I kept wondering how they would do a second season of this show, it seemed to be rolling towards some inevitable conclusion. Yet I found the ending entirely believable and satisfactory (well, the epilogue was a little long).
Very interested to see what Carrie does next season. Because man, they piled on the crazy.
Poor Carrie. If only she'd delayed for one day - she'd have had it. I mean she had it numerous times, but her crazy got in the way. I do like that the crazy isn't constantly being used to sideline Carrie - it comes at the right moments (like after being nearly bombed to bits).
I think the Homeland producers - in regards to certain unresolved plots - are keeping eggs in a separate basket because they don't need to un-spool everything. For me the big cliffhangers is where everyone goes from here, much less whether Carrie will herself remember Isa.
Such an excellent show; Showtime is smart to have it air AFTER Dexter so as not to embarrass the showrunners there.
I don't know a single thing about procedures for the secret service, but...
after an assassination attempt by sniper, is it normal to just let everybody out of a bunker with no debriefing of any sort? Smuggling the bomb in was absolutely brilliant, but how do you smuggle it back out?
Also, I do not care for crazy Carrie. Claire Danes is absolutely amazing and she nails it, I just don't like how it fits into the show. It feels like a soap opera element inserted in an otherwise very tight suspense thriller. I feel the entire season could have played out the same if we excised the affair and the crazy pills.
Don't take these small complaints the wrong way, I love the show. The plan revealed was excellent, the acting is top notch all the way around, it's really the best show going.
I think that Carrie being bugfuck nuts is actually what saves this show from being a run-of-the-mill spy thriller (well, that and the great writing). They obviously did their homework on clinical conditions in order for Danes to sell it so hard, and her breakdowns are such a refreshing change-of-pace from the hardcore anti-terrorism people we see in shows like 24 who only go crazy with the clinical condition of badass disorder.
I love how they billed Carrie as the main character, but it's actually Saul. Carrie is his crazy sidekick.
Yeah, if Carrie wasn't crazy it would be harder to sell Saul not listening to her (or her being so hard-core at trying to make the necessary connections).
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surrealitychecklonely, but not unloveddreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered Userregular
i am betting in the end a lot will hinge on saul's ability to trust
i thought they were setting him up to believe everybody had failed
estes
his wife
carrie
the vp
etc
but carrie gets a bit redeemed in his eyes so we shall see
I wonder where they'll take Carrie's character from here.
If her job with the CIA is officially over with no chance of reinstatement, it's going to be interesting to see how they reintegrate her into the espionage plot. Even Saul wouldn't give up sensitive information to her, though maybe that was just because of her current mental state.
I've got to say I didn't really like the way the season ended.
They knew since way back that Brody would be running for Congress, so how did nobody think until the end that having him alive might actually be useful? That shouldn't have been a big surprise at the end, it was something that I assumed they were considering from the outset, it should have occurred to them immediately.
Brody's bomb not going off at first was a really cheap trick to drag it out longer.
What was the point of the house near the airport?
Why did they need Walker? Surely anyone firing shots would give them the same result. Him being revealed at all was an accident, so it's not like they needed him to drum up fear. All along he was a sniper who's job was to miss, so why couldn't anyone else have done that?
Why did they have to kill Walker? You've got a great resource like that, you don't just kill him off for funsies. If they're worried because his name's all over everything then just have him go on a suicidal rampage, or send him to Afghanistan/Libya/Wherever else they work to train their own guys as snipers.
This isn't as big a complaint, but with Carrie out of the CIA I feel like they've lost a big part of what I liked about the show. Having her as part of the institution, with the power and responsibility afforded her, and how that clashed with her crazy, was important. If she becomes just a consultant or starts an anti-terrorist private eye business I doubt that would be as interesting. If they can pull it off, cool, but I'm not super-excited about where that can go.
It had some great moments too, like Brody's daughter talking him down, and I'll be interested to see where that goes (does his daughter know what he was going to do? He sounded pretty guilty on the phone, will she accept that or deny it?). Overall though I think it might have been the weakest episode of the season for me and it's a shame to end like that.
I really liked the finale. The show is much better than I expected, and its even better than I thought it was at around episode 3.
For some reason I really liked the
"Another fucking disaster" line when there were no paper towels in the bathroom.
As for season 2:
Part of me thinks that this is Abu Nazir's long game, but the rest of me can justify Nazir not thinking about influencing the President because he was blinded by the desire for revenge over the death of his son.
One thing I liked is that we definitely know the US ordered the drone strike on the school. Some people were saying that maybe Nazir planned it to turn Brody, and we know that's not the case. I think that they've done a good job in making Brody and Nazir empathetic. In the story of America vs terrorists I'm still going for America, and the show would get silly if it tried to change that, but they haven't made Nazir cartoonishly evil. I guess I'm just thoroughly sick of black and white morality, and overly simplistic TV, but it's nice to have a show that's able to say "People are capable of being bad without being the living incarnation of all that's evil".
Part of me thinks that this is Abu Nazir's long game, but the rest of me can justify Nazir not thinking about influencing the President because he was blinded by the desire for revenge over the death of his son.
Brody freely swore to Nazir that he would avenge Isa, so it's possible that this whole plan, at it's core, was Brody's. Nazir was just there to make sure it happened.
Now that the bombing has failed, Brody has decided on an alternate course, and Nazir still plays the role of the enabler, not the mastermind.
The house near the airport, the money trail, all that was misdirection, or rather, they were to be part of Nazir's schemes if they weren't found out, but they were sacrificial pawns if they were; Brody was always the high value asset that they served as distractions for.
As for Walker, he was coming apart at the seams. He murdered that hunter with a highly distinctive firearm that was to be used in the main plot. He even admitted that he broke easily under torture and captivity ("We both reached the same place, I just got there faster"... yeah, like 7 years faster). What's to say he wasn't acting erratically and Nazir knew he was going to be a rogue element going forward? My guess is that they had him train terrorists for years before sending him back to the States to participate in the plots. He probably had other jobs from Nazir before this. It's not like they went through all that trouble just for Brody to kill him after one mission.
He seemed like he was more of a liability at that end. He's easily broken and his identity was known. If someone did catch him, it would only be a matter of time before he gave up Brodie. And I got the impression that he had a more indiscriminate attitude towards who he attacked, like the park bomb, while Nazir and Brodie have specific goals.
Vice president
God he's cold hearted. Woman gets killed right in front of him, literally covered in gore, apparently a good friend and coworker and nothing. Just goddamn terrorist spoiling my announcement that I'm going to run for president.
God he's cold hearted. Woman gets killed right in front of him, literally covered in gore, apparently a good friend and coworker and nothing. Just goddamn terrorist spoiling my announcement that I'm going to run for president.
I couldn't get over how much like John Boehner the Secretary of Defense looked.
The Homeland alternate United States is really interesting. So the VP was the head of the CIA 3 years prior when the event in question happened. He's clearly a George H.W. Bush figure. Obviously there was no voter backlash against Republicans in 2006 and 2008 due to the mismanagement of Iraq if the same folks are in power--unless Democrats are just as dickish as Republicans in this universe (which isn't all that much of a stretch).
So the VP was the head of the CIA 3 years prior when the event in question happened.
Is this a particularly likely scenario? I thought it was a bit weird that Saul apparently thinks he could have shut it down, when just three years later the guy is running for president. I'd also think that anyone working in intelligence would have a lot of dirt that a lot of people would know about, plus the public don't really seem to like or trust intelligence in general, so I wouldn't have thought that was very likely. Of course, I don't know much about US politics, so I could be wrong.
Posts
Well, you can bet that this option is on the table.
This episode confirmed my belief that
Claire Danes was amazing in this episode.
My take on the mole
...or was it?
Coran Attack!
You mean the guy that was revealed to be a
Methinks they're not done with that guy yet.
I really think the actress who plays Brody's daughter is doing a great job. I can't fucking stand the son though.
Seemed odd that Jess would call her husband "Brody" and not "Nick" in a moment of intimacy.
That would just be so obnoxious.
I'm kind of annoyed at the mole subplot just for existing. I mean, 24 beat that into the ground so far it came out the other side of the planet.
I was kind of expecting this season's finale to be concerned with stopping Walker, and Brody gets into office, next season is about dealing with Brody, but it seems like they're not doing that.
I'm siding with no mole, because remember when we see the Saudi with diplomatic immunity meet Walker? They're on the street at night. The Saudi tells them the meet is in a park at noon. I think the sign he gave was the "shit lads, we're rumbled" sign, though he probably didn't expect to be killed for it. Everything else can, I think, be ascribed to Brody or Walker: Brody slips a blade to the guy in interrogation, Walker sees the CIA tailing the lecturer, whatever else. They haven't really been pushing the mole aspect, just bringing it up as a possibility, so I think it's definitely possible that it's a red herring.
The bit at the end said Carrie was on Administrative Leave, not actually fired, which I think is good. In real life you don't come back from being fired in disgrace for illegal surveillance and everything else. Only being on leave gives them a very real way to bring her back, and if they do a second season I'd certainly prefer if she's still working officially, because we've got enough crappy consultant shows already.
And finally, to end all this ranting: Claire Danes is the ugliest crier. Even in Romeo and Juliet, like 10 years ago, she could go so suddenly from hot to oh-god-what's-wrong just by starting to cry.
Best TV Series (Drama)
Best Actor (Damian Lewis)
Best Actress (Claire Danes)
Some thoughts
But predicting what's going to happen on this show is a fool's errand, so who knows.
she has been lying all along
I'm a little concerned with Abu Nazir. I mean, shouldn't he have thought of that? DID he already think of that, and was basically setting this up as a Xanatos Gambit?
It wouldn't surprise me. The original plan was freaking brilliant.
I kept wondering how they would do a second season of this show, it seemed to be rolling towards some inevitable conclusion. Yet I found the ending entirely believable and satisfactory (well, the epilogue was a little long).
Very interested to see what Carrie does next season. Because man, they piled on the crazy.
Someone in Nazir's organization no doubt, he knew it was to be hidden there. It's the key to keeping Brody in line.
Damian Lewis is a damn good actor
Coran Attack!
I think the Homeland producers - in regards to certain unresolved plots - are keeping eggs in a separate basket because they don't need to un-spool everything. For me the big cliffhangers is where everyone goes from here, much less whether Carrie will herself remember Isa.
Such an excellent show; Showtime is smart to have it air AFTER Dexter so as not to embarrass the showrunners there.
Also, I do not care for crazy Carrie. Claire Danes is absolutely amazing and she nails it, I just don't like how it fits into the show. It feels like a soap opera element inserted in an otherwise very tight suspense thriller. I feel the entire season could have played out the same if we excised the affair and the crazy pills.
Don't take these small complaints the wrong way, I love the show. The plan revealed was excellent, the acting is top notch all the way around, it's really the best show going.
Also, I hope they get at least one Golden Globe.
I love how they billed Carrie as the main character, but it's actually Saul. Carrie is his crazy sidekick.
i thought they were setting him up to believe everybody had failed
estes
his wife
carrie
the vp
etc
but carrie gets a bit redeemed in his eyes so we shall see
Brody's bomb not going off at first was a really cheap trick to drag it out longer.
What was the point of the house near the airport?
Why did they need Walker? Surely anyone firing shots would give them the same result. Him being revealed at all was an accident, so it's not like they needed him to drum up fear. All along he was a sniper who's job was to miss, so why couldn't anyone else have done that?
Why did they have to kill Walker? You've got a great resource like that, you don't just kill him off for funsies. If they're worried because his name's all over everything then just have him go on a suicidal rampage, or send him to Afghanistan/Libya/Wherever else they work to train their own guys as snipers.
This isn't as big a complaint, but with Carrie out of the CIA I feel like they've lost a big part of what I liked about the show. Having her as part of the institution, with the power and responsibility afforded her, and how that clashed with her crazy, was important. If she becomes just a consultant or starts an anti-terrorist private eye business I doubt that would be as interesting. If they can pull it off, cool, but I'm not super-excited about where that can go.
It had some great moments too, like Brody's daughter talking him down, and I'll be interested to see where that goes (does his daughter know what he was going to do? He sounded pretty guilty on the phone, will she accept that or deny it?). Overall though I think it might have been the weakest episode of the season for me and it's a shame to end like that.
For some reason I really liked the
As for season 2:
Now that the bombing has failed, Brody has decided on an alternate course, and Nazir still plays the role of the enabler, not the mastermind.
I love this series.
As for Walker, he was coming apart at the seams. He murdered that hunter with a highly distinctive firearm that was to be used in the main plot. He even admitted that he broke easily under torture and captivity ("We both reached the same place, I just got there faster"... yeah, like 7 years faster). What's to say he wasn't acting erratically and Nazir knew he was going to be a rogue element going forward? My guess is that they had him train terrorists for years before sending him back to the States to participate in the plots. He probably had other jobs from Nazir before this. It's not like they went through all that trouble just for Brody to kill him after one mission.
Now Now they didn't do anything bad enough to deserve that did they
Vice president
The Homeland alternate United States is really interesting. So the VP was the head of the CIA 3 years prior when the event in question happened. He's clearly a George H.W. Bush figure. Obviously there was no voter backlash against Republicans in 2006 and 2008 due to the mismanagement of Iraq if the same folks are in power--unless Democrats are just as dickish as Republicans in this universe (which isn't all that much of a stretch).
I just figured out who the mole is.
Is this a particularly likely scenario? I thought it was a bit weird that Saul apparently thinks he could have shut it down, when just three years later the guy is running for president. I'd also think that anyone working in intelligence would have a lot of dirt that a lot of people would know about, plus the public don't really seem to like or trust intelligence in general, so I wouldn't have thought that was very likely. Of course, I don't know much about US politics, so I could be wrong.