I believe a lot of the issues with the tank would be solved if it was more resistant to the auto shotgun.
Looking at the damage per second of the shotty vs the other T2 weapons it seems to me a slight toning down is in order, and this would fix many of the issues with the tank in VS.
make sure you don't let the last survivor into the closet
This isn't a viable option, nor does it address the issue with using the closet to avoid the dangers of a panic event, which is the nearly endless horde it spawns. Yes you can stop them from getting in, but once in they are untouchable unless they are very poor or the infected get very lucky. Yes they can be ambushed effectively after they leave the closet, but it will be as if they were in effect attacked by a single horde on their way to the elevator, instead of a full panic event. This forces a period of zero tension for both teams, and is circumventing intended gameplay, thus should be changed.
I think I found the solution to all the bitching about the shit that goes on in Vs.
Play campaign.
Seriously. There is nothing better than a long day at work and sitting down for about an hour and mowing down the undead with my slinging lead. And I don't get pissed at people.
Lol, everytime I see your signature all I can think of is:
That signature made me laugh for a good two minutes.
What an awesome TOTP.
Does anyone else read that signature with the voice of Jabberjaw?
I read it as a cross between strongbad and space ghost's "knifing around"
Speaking of the AID, it balances the difficulty of the map and thus changes the spawns of the tank. Why did we have the tank spawn right in the middle instead of at the end like the other team? Maybe because we had far more swarms, or got the power weapons earlier, or a whole number of other variables your tiny little human mind can't begin to comprehend.
The AID is so far from being fair to both teams its ludicrous. Your blind defense of Valve is likewise so. They aren't the all-seeing all-playtesting gods that you make them out to be. Valve has a good record of patching things that don't work, and I expect L4D to be no different.
I think his point is there are a lot of stupid, not well though out suggestions being made that don't take the full picture into consideration.
If that was his point then he wouldn't have mind a blanket statement claiming that nobody other than Valve employees could possibly have an idea that would improve their game.
I didn't at any point suggest either
A: That Valve don't patch their games or are incapable of improving upon crafted product post launch.
B: That they are gods of developing and that they can do no wrong.
So I think your reading comprehension needs work.
If you understood basic English you would understand the point I was making was this. And I'll be simple so you can grasp it.
Snap reactions to gameplay imbalances are almost always completely narrow minded and never take into account the whole picture.
"Waagh tank/witch needs balancing in VS" is a fair complaint. But, and I quote here;
I'd personally like it if you got to choose where and (and to some degree) when the Tank and Witch would appear. It would be more fair to everyone involved than the other options, which don't work that well.
This was the suggestion I was reaction to. Specifically this one. And the others along similar lines.
It wouldn't be more fair to everyone involved than the other options, and I highlighted just some of the problems with that idea in my own post. And it took me 5 seconds to realize them.
Like I said, if you think you have an idea for game balance issues and posted it without playtesting it on a private server or changing server cvars to give it a whirl, and it is only in your head and in theory, then chances are some member of the Valve development team also had the same idea, and suggested it. And probably playtested it. And because said change isn't in the final game means they discarded it or like I did, immediately found glaring holes in the plan with a little thought on the matter.
No imbalance in Valve games have been fixed overnight, unless it was a genuine game bug not a balance issue. Yeah Pyros sucked at TF2 launch, and everyone and their mother had an 'idea' on how to fix it that was 'so obvious it is ridiculous Valve haven't done anything yet'. But they playtested it, and worked the problem and provided a solution which was unlike half of the stupid ideas I saw around the internet, like letting Pyros have a sprint option, or making the range on the flamethrower infinite or a bunch of other 'totally obvious ways to fix the balance problems'.
I'm not saying Valve are gods of game development. Far from it. But they are a fucking damn sight better than anyone on these forums, including myself. So when there is a balance issue in their games, I dont go whining about it or suggesting ideas on how to fix it unless I checked to see if it worked. Because that is scientific rigor. Trial and error. Proper methods of doing shit.
I just grabbed the Sins of a Solar Empire beta tonight, and already after two games I see massive balance issues. So I post the issue on their forums, and a few of us decide to play some trial games to work the problem. In the end we discover it is a combination of a bug and some errors in balance. So we post again suggesting ideas. And the developers post back saying they are working on the problem.
And a patch will come, and so on and so on. Thats beta testing.
Now L4D is out, a retail game on shelves. Imbalances in the game are not as acceptable as a beta test. But the way you go about solving these issues remains exactly the same.
Edit: Im not directing most of my vitriol at you, more on the argument itself.
In poker, skill generally wins out because you have potentially dozens of chances to even out the randomness. In Left 4 Dead there are 5. They are completely incomparable. Left 4 Dead's random elements makes it a useless competitive environment, because there are too many variables completely out of the players controls. The better team will usually win, but a large portion of the time one team or another will get completely fucked over. This is why this game will never have a competitive scene.
There are more than 5, though. Each mini-section of L4D is made of hundreds of player moves.
I'm just saying, there are plenty of competitive scenes for games where the better player gets fucked over.
Oh damn I didn't realize this was a discussion that I couldn't bring up basic ideas without writing a belligerent essay.
And Hockey Johnston, I see your point. I'd still like to see such potentially powerful things as a Tank and Witch not being left up to chance, but thats just my opinion.
Now I'm going to go play Versus, and I'm going to go have fun. Cause you know, its a fun game despite some *gasp* minor flaws.
In poker, skill generally wins out because you have potentially dozens of chances to even out the randomness. In Left 4 Dead there are 5. They are completely incomparable. Left 4 Dead's random elements makes it a useless competitive environment, because there are too many variables completely out of the players controls. The better team will usually win, but a large portion of the time one team or another will get completely fucked over. This is why this game will never have a competitive scene.
There are more than 5, though. Each mini-section of L4D is made of hundreds of player moves.
I'm just saying, there are plenty of competitive scenes for games where the better player gets fucked over.
Also, is Steam brokens? :(:(
It appears so.
Mr Obersmith on
Battle.net - Obersmith#1709
Live - MrObersmith
PSN - Obersmith
My reading comprehension is fine thanks, I think it's your ability to communicate that needs some work.
If this was your point:
"Snap reactions to gameplay imbalances are almost always completely narrow minded and never take into account the whole picture."
Then why did you type this:
"What have I said guys, if you think you have an amazing idea to improve a Valve game they have already playtested it to death for the last 6 months and discarded it. Because they make games, you don't."
Let me break down the meaning of your original statement for you.
-Any ideas you have had
-Have already been thought of by Valve
-And were discarded because they were rubbish
So I think what you meant to type was something like:
"Hey guys, don't be so quick to dismiss these things as flaws, after a few more weeks you might have a better grasp of the mechanics and the way the game works and it might seem better then."
Second, I did not say that you claimed Valve never patched/improved things, only that they (and other developers) have never made changes based on player feedback. I even gave your simple little mind an example, the pyro was changed by Valve because the players had better ideas than Valve's team originally did. What they thought was fine we did not, and they acknowledged that.
As for the second thing, fair enough. But it was a comical exaggeration to show how ridiculous your statement was, as other people have also commented on.
Also, you could try responding without being a collossal, patronising dick. Or we could just treat you the same way.
The TLDR for you: try typing what you actually mean the first time rather than a general statement that you can backpeddle to and insert new meanings and plenty of 'probably' and 'mostly' into when someone pulls you up on it.
Rami on
Steam / Xbox Live: WSDX NNID: W-S-D-X 3DS FC: 2637-9461-8549
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darklite_xI'm not an r-tard...Registered Userregular
edited December 2008
I never, in my life, thought I'd be linking this, but in regards to those complaining about closet defenses and whatnot:
I am pretty sure I understand what you're talking about. You're talking about using the Hunter to upset a witch so it follows the Hunter, then the Hunter brings the witch to the survivor team, correct? I don't see the problem. An unexpected witch is still less dangerous than a tank encounter and I don't care how the witch came to arrive at your location. The witch is weak, if the infected team can use her in such a way as to make her more effective then go ahead.
That's not how it happened in any of the cases, and if it were, it would have been a joke to sit back and watch the hunter get raped by the witch.
Really, you won't get it by me telling you. The timing and method was what made it so destructive. It was unavoidable and resulted in automatic incap of one of the survivors in each case. The first time it was during a fucking tank fight to boot.
Edit: And I'm not saying PAers are sunshine bandits, but we're generally not fucktards to each other in a friendly game. generally.
Whether you believe me or not is on you, but would you fucking believe that since it's SO FUCKING HARD TO DO (really, try it, you'll never get it to happen the first time you try), there is no such thing as "timing" is properly. The issue that makes it work is the hunter's speed, even without pouncing, and the witch not doing enough damage to boss infected.
The witch aggro move being effective at ALL against you only had to do with my dumb luck. I was trying to aggro the witch a good 30 seconds before the tank spawned on NM 3. When I pounced one of you guys in a different level, it was because I was trying to jump out of a group of you.
Oh, and to answer a question, if the hunter dies and the witch was chasing him, she goes back to crying wherever she is.
If you really play versus for fun, you should have no problem with someone having some fun. Aggroing the witch isn't something that takes little effort. That's a solid 30 seconds to minute of gameplay that I'd probably be more useful to my team during. On top of that, it's NOT guaranteed to work. If I wanted to be a dick, I would have intentionally pounced you every time to REALLY fuck you up. Not accidentally the one time you were actually pounced.
As for the "I asked you to stop because I said it was cheap, RAWR you dick" comment, I think others have addressed it, but I suppose I will as well. This is ridiculous. There are lots of things that are IN the game that a lot of people feel are cheap, even though they are actively encouraged. I think when the best piece of advice for a new player that I actually heard uttered in an all PA game (the same one, actually) is that you should be meleeing more than shooting, there's a problem. Part of the reason for having ridiculously high amounts of ammo at any given time is so you can be spraying bullets like a motherfucker. so what if the game doesn't explicitly mention that infected can aggro the witch. Think to yourself: why would the devs even have real friendly fire for the infected? Why isn't is taken away for certain classes, like the witch?
If it's patched out, I don't care. I already told you on here that I won't do it any more with PA'ers unless we are pub baiting or just fucking around. So I didn't stop last night when you asked me to. Get over it. If it had been more than a combination of dumb luck on my part, I would have. I'm not a good enough player to coordinate something like that properly. The times it did happen were accidents. If you want to know a time when it WASN'T an accident...BH2, you remember, when I ran through you guys with the witch on my tail instead of pouncing one of you after you opened the door. If I was really trying to be a dick the entire time, I would have pounced you and laughed at the incap.
As for the log "exploit," I was trying to get it through the hole in the side of the building. If I wanted to take advantage of not losing control, I wouldn't have been sitting somewhere where you can shoot me the entire time. My intention wasn't to keep control, it was me trying to use dumb luck to actually knock the log into the room and take care of your little corner.
As for the "vocalize playerdeath," I suppose you're going to call the other 2 people on my four person team dicks for doing it?
Oh, and don't throw stones. You want to know what at least one of your tanks was doing? Punching through the wall to the left of the gun rack. Exploit much? I normally don't give a shit, but you were hardly innocent in the game.
Versus isn't fair, and it isn't balanced, and if core options aren't changed, it can't be. The reason for this is very simply the Tank and the Witch, two heavy hitters that the infected aren't in complete control of. The random spawns don't work great because "you guys got the tank on roof, when we only got him by the closet!" and "your witch was in our safe room, while ours was off the fucking map!". But the same spawns wouldn't work either because infected players would always have the advantage of knowing exactly when and where the Tank and Witch would be.
I'd personally like it if you got to choose where and (and to some degree) when the Tank and Witch would appear. It would be more fair to everyone involved than the other options, which don't work that well.
What if the infected got to choose the tank spawn and witch spawn? I don't know how the UI would work for it, but what about that?
I was wondering
TwistedFate on
thIs fOrUm dEsErvEs A bEttEr clAss Of OttEr, And I'm gOnnA gIvE It tO 'Em. yOU'll sEE, I'll shOw yA
While Dave Sirlin is great, that article only applies to competitive gaming. So, unless we all decide that Left 4 Dead is srs bizness, nothing in that article applies.
So the saga of the malfunctioning left 4 dead CD continues!
I got my reply from tech support and after doing what he told me to do, it seems that I was wrong. It's not that left 4 dead thinks it's already installed (that was Steam I was trying to install by clicking on this icon in the CD -_-), but just that clicking "Install" on the CD setup screen doesn't do anything.
The computer just seems to work hard for a good minute and that's it. If I'm logged out of Steam, it logs on. That's all. Doesn't install anything.
So I blame EA. Curse you EA!
Try this. Log into Steam, under the 'My Games' tab, click the 'Activate a product on Steam' button, and enter your activation code that came with the disc.
Already done. It's on my account. But steam only allows me to download it, not install it from the CD. And I'd rather not download it.
Wait, what? Why not? All you've gotta do is let steam sit overnight and you're good to go. Seems like that and the space usage are a small price to pay for, y'know, being able to play the game.
Because I don't want to pay 30$ extra for the game because I busted my cap?
There's a reason I bought the CD and I swear Valve will pay every penny my ISP will charge me if I have to download it.
EDIT: And reinstalling Steam didn't do it. I don't think Steam is the problem.
I am pretty sure I understand what you're talking about. You're talking about using the Hunter to upset a witch so it follows the Hunter, then the Hunter brings the witch to the survivor team, correct? I don't see the problem. An unexpected witch is still less dangerous than a tank encounter and I don't care how the witch came to arrive at your location. The witch is weak, if the infected team can use her in such a way as to make her more effective then go ahead.
That's not how it happened in any of the cases, and if it were, it would have been a joke to sit back and watch the hunter get raped by the witch.
Really, you won't get it by me telling you. The timing and method was what made it so destructive. It was unavoidable and resulted in automatic incap of one of the survivors in each case. The first time it was during a fucking tank fight to boot.
Edit: And I'm not saying PAers are sunshine bandits, but we're generally not fucktards to each other in a friendly game. generally.
Coming from the person that did it, this destroys your entire argument. You basically right here say that the timing and method made it destructive when BOTH were accidental. In other words, you don't mind me moving around the witch. You mind that during the 45 seconds to aggro her, a tank spawned and that while I was trying to run her through your group, somebody moved in front of me and got pounced.
You basically are upset about the application of an exploit when you say that rather than being upset about the exploit itself. Which is silly.
Also, survivors don't have to be close for the hunter to aggro her. Case in point, NM 3 a few weeks back: the survivors had already gone downstairs to the sewer. The witch is in the warehouse. I aggro her and she chases me THROUGH THE ENTIRE MAP to them in the pre-sewer room. After they had already passed her.
TwistedFate on
thIs fOrUm dEsErvEs A bEttEr clAss Of OttEr, And I'm gOnnA gIvE It tO 'Em. yOU'll sEE, I'll shOw yA
So the saga of the malfunctioning left 4 dead CD continues!
I got my reply from tech support and after doing what he told me to do, it seems that I was wrong. It's not that left 4 dead thinks it's already installed (that was Steam I was trying to install by clicking on this icon in the CD -_-), but just that clicking "Install" on the CD setup screen doesn't do anything.
The computer just seems to work hard for a good minute and that's it. If I'm logged out of Steam, it logs on. That's all. Doesn't install anything.
So I blame EA. Curse you EA!
Try this. Log into Steam, under the 'My Games' tab, click the 'Activate a product on Steam' button, and enter your activation code that came with the disc.
Already done. It's on my account. But steam only allows me to download it, not install it from the CD. And I'd rather not download it.
Wait, what? Why not? All you've gotta do is let steam sit overnight and you're good to go. Seems like that and the space usage are a small price to pay for, y'know, being able to play the game.
Because I don't want to pay 30$ extra for the game because I busted my cap?
There's a reason I bought the CD and I swear Valve will pay every penny my ISP will charge me if I have to download it.
Yeah, some people have download limits ya know. Not myself, of course, I have wonderful high-speed internet with an unlimited download cap (I actually doubt that, but I haven't hit it yet so it may as well be unlimited). :P
to fix closet camping, couldn't they put in a condition where the Director spawns a shitload of zombies, possibly through the closet walls, if people do this for too long? Perhaps leave enough time for people to use it as a quick, desperate last attempt, but if they stay in it for a certain amount of cumulative time, they get inundated with zed.
METAzraeL on
dream a little dream or you could live a little dream
sleep forever if you wish to be a dreamer
A new infected with the ability to make a pool of acid (or something like that) could easily make the closet defense a very bad idea.
They could do it with the existing infected too. IMHO Smokers should create a smoke cloud around their target the moment they grab somebody, and the smoke should also have an effect like slowing your melee swings or dealing damage.
A new infected with the ability to make a pool of acid (or something like that) could easily make the closet defense a very bad idea.
They could do it with the existing infected too. IMHO Smokers should create a smoke cloud around their target the moment they grab somebody, and the smoke should also have an effect like slowing your melee swings or dealing damage.
A new infected with the ability to make a pool of acid (or something like that) could easily make the closet defense a very bad idea.
They could do it with the existing infected too. IMHO Smokers should create a smoke cloud around their target the moment they grab somebody, and the smoke should also have an effect like slowing your melee swings or dealing damage.
Seriously, who gives a fuck? its fun every frikken time. If you play about winning, go joiin the PGL, hack, exploit, whatever, I don't care, even if I lose against you!
Sometimes you get shitty teamates. If one person takes the lead, you have a chance to win.
Shitty spawns, such as tank right out of the safe room, witch blocking your path, good communication/teamwork overcomes this.
Yes sometimes you get screwed, sometiimes your oppenents gets screwed, its kinda like poker. Play the mathmatical percentages and you'll come out ahead. Soemtiems you get screwed, and thats what you remember. You never remember the times your set held up.
Games are played for fun, and I'm sorry, the randomess of the AID, adds to the fucking game. You know you got screwed on that last level, this level, your talkiing more, working more as a team. Hey, you made it to the safe room rounds 1 and 2? Guess what, your not making it to the safe room round 3. Your opponents are. Oh, looky there! THe score is seperated by 500 points.
You play videogames for fun. I play videogames for fun. Part of the fun of L4D is the randomness. everyone gets screwed eventually. If you're all about winning, go play madden or something and GTF out of my game!
*Off topic. How long does this jailing last? I miss editing. First bad post, got baited in by trolls. Well, they called me trolls, but all the posts were just to get me to post something and get in trouble. Second one, well, PA rules are stricter than any other forum (Brought up emulation without asking for anything, any source, any website)
I like to win, and I play to win myself. I prefer to have teamates who communicate, and give me a chance. But even in those horrible losses, theres some funny moments, and a good hour of fun.
I don't get the point you're trying to make. Don't you want the best possible experience you can have? Even though you enjoy the game right now, wouldn't it be even better if things like closet camping were removed, say through the introduction of a new boss infected?
How can you argue against making the game more fun?
I don't get the point you're trying to make. Don't you want the best possible experience you can have? Even though you enjoy the game right now, wouldn't it be even better if things like closet camping were removed, say through the introduction of a new boss infected?
How can you argue against making the game more fun?
Closet camping can be annoying, tank cheesing can be annoying, , and maybe theres better players on the PC than the 360 that makes this more rampant, but I havn't seen it so much that it makes the game unenjoyable.
And as for the tank thing, You do know that if 2 players just stand there doing nothing intead of hitting cars/logs, you'll end up facing 4 human Infected/1 Ai tank right? The AI will just sit there doing nothing untill your in range. So, really, their almost helping you. And if you run to a closet, well, arn't you both being gay?
If you see PA vs PUB X slots across the Armageaddon chat, that means someone is looking for 3 people to hopefully curbstomp four random people. Randomengy, guarmonde, a random who joined a bit in (I think), and myself did this just now and it was a blast, especially the super ambush we laid out in the NM finale.
DualEdge on
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freakish lightbutterdick jonesand his heavenly asshole machineRegistered Userregular
*Off topic. How long does this jailing last? I miss editing. First bad post, got baited in by trolls. Well, they called me trolls, but all the posts were just to get me to post something and get in trouble. Second one, well, PA rules are stricter than any other forum (Brought up emulation without asking for anything, any source, any website)
It lasts until your points run out. By looking at your profile, you are unjailed on January 17.
*actually I think it's when you're between 0-2 points, but since your infraction is at 3 you're jailed until it expires.
Posts
Looking at the damage per second of the shotty vs the other T2 weapons it seems to me a slight toning down is in order, and this would fix many of the issues with the tank in VS.
This isn't a viable option, nor does it address the issue with using the closet to avoid the dangers of a panic event, which is the nearly endless horde it spawns. Yes you can stop them from getting in, but once in they are untouchable unless they are very poor or the infected get very lucky. Yes they can be ambushed effectively after they leave the closet, but it will be as if they were in effect attacked by a single horde on their way to the elevator, instead of a full panic event. This forces a period of zero tension for both teams, and is circumventing intended gameplay, thus should be changed.
LoL: BunyipAristocrat
I read it as a cross between strongbad and space ghost's "knifing around"
I didn't at any point suggest either
A: That Valve don't patch their games or are incapable of improving upon crafted product post launch.
B: That they are gods of developing and that they can do no wrong.
So I think your reading comprehension needs work.
If you understood basic English you would understand the point I was making was this. And I'll be simple so you can grasp it.
Snap reactions to gameplay imbalances are almost always completely narrow minded and never take into account the whole picture.
"Waagh tank/witch needs balancing in VS" is a fair complaint. But, and I quote here;
This was the suggestion I was reaction to. Specifically this one. And the others along similar lines.
It wouldn't be more fair to everyone involved than the other options, and I highlighted just some of the problems with that idea in my own post. And it took me 5 seconds to realize them.
Like I said, if you think you have an idea for game balance issues and posted it without playtesting it on a private server or changing server cvars to give it a whirl, and it is only in your head and in theory, then chances are some member of the Valve development team also had the same idea, and suggested it. And probably playtested it. And because said change isn't in the final game means they discarded it or like I did, immediately found glaring holes in the plan with a little thought on the matter.
No imbalance in Valve games have been fixed overnight, unless it was a genuine game bug not a balance issue. Yeah Pyros sucked at TF2 launch, and everyone and their mother had an 'idea' on how to fix it that was 'so obvious it is ridiculous Valve haven't done anything yet'. But they playtested it, and worked the problem and provided a solution which was unlike half of the stupid ideas I saw around the internet, like letting Pyros have a sprint option, or making the range on the flamethrower infinite or a bunch of other 'totally obvious ways to fix the balance problems'.
I'm not saying Valve are gods of game development. Far from it. But they are a fucking damn sight better than anyone on these forums, including myself. So when there is a balance issue in their games, I dont go whining about it or suggesting ideas on how to fix it unless I checked to see if it worked. Because that is scientific rigor. Trial and error. Proper methods of doing shit.
I just grabbed the Sins of a Solar Empire beta tonight, and already after two games I see massive balance issues. So I post the issue on their forums, and a few of us decide to play some trial games to work the problem. In the end we discover it is a combination of a bug and some errors in balance. So we post again suggesting ideas. And the developers post back saying they are working on the problem.
And a patch will come, and so on and so on. Thats beta testing.
Now L4D is out, a retail game on shelves. Imbalances in the game are not as acceptable as a beta test. But the way you go about solving these issues remains exactly the same.
Edit: Im not directing most of my vitriol at you, more on the argument itself.
There are more than 5, though. Each mini-section of L4D is made of hundreds of player moves.
I'm just saying, there are plenty of competitive scenes for games where the better player gets fucked over.
Also, is Steam brokens?
I think my point was more that this game is only fun if you don't take it seriously.
GT: Tanky the Tank
Black: 1377 6749 7425
And Hockey Johnston, I see your point. I'd still like to see such potentially powerful things as a Tank and Witch not being left up to chance, but thats just my opinion.
Now I'm going to go play Versus, and I'm going to go have fun. Cause you know, its a fun game despite some *gasp* minor flaws.
It appears so.
Live - MrObersmith
PSN - Obersmith
If this was your point:
"Snap reactions to gameplay imbalances are almost always completely narrow minded and never take into account the whole picture."
Then why did you type this:
"What have I said guys, if you think you have an amazing idea to improve a Valve game they have already playtested it to death for the last 6 months and discarded it. Because they make games, you don't."
Let me break down the meaning of your original statement for you.
-Any ideas you have had
-Have already been thought of by Valve
-And were discarded because they were rubbish
So I think what you meant to type was something like:
"Hey guys, don't be so quick to dismiss these things as flaws, after a few more weeks you might have a better grasp of the mechanics and the way the game works and it might seem better then."
Second, I did not say that you claimed Valve never patched/improved things, only that they (and other developers) have never made changes based on player feedback. I even gave your simple little mind an example, the pyro was changed by Valve because the players had better ideas than Valve's team originally did. What they thought was fine we did not, and they acknowledged that.
As for the second thing, fair enough. But it was a comical exaggeration to show how ridiculous your statement was, as other people have also commented on.
Also, you could try responding without being a collossal, patronising dick. Or we could just treat you the same way.
The TLDR for you: try typing what you actually mean the first time rather than a general statement that you can backpeddle to and insert new meanings and plenty of 'probably' and 'mostly' into when someone pulls you up on it.
http://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/intermediates-guide.html
Whether you believe me or not is on you, but would you fucking believe that since it's SO FUCKING HARD TO DO (really, try it, you'll never get it to happen the first time you try), there is no such thing as "timing" is properly. The issue that makes it work is the hunter's speed, even without pouncing, and the witch not doing enough damage to boss infected.
The witch aggro move being effective at ALL against you only had to do with my dumb luck. I was trying to aggro the witch a good 30 seconds before the tank spawned on NM 3. When I pounced one of you guys in a different level, it was because I was trying to jump out of a group of you.
Oh, and to answer a question, if the hunter dies and the witch was chasing him, she goes back to crying wherever she is.
If you really play versus for fun, you should have no problem with someone having some fun. Aggroing the witch isn't something that takes little effort. That's a solid 30 seconds to minute of gameplay that I'd probably be more useful to my team during. On top of that, it's NOT guaranteed to work. If I wanted to be a dick, I would have intentionally pounced you every time to REALLY fuck you up. Not accidentally the one time you were actually pounced.
As for the "I asked you to stop because I said it was cheap, RAWR you dick" comment, I think others have addressed it, but I suppose I will as well. This is ridiculous. There are lots of things that are IN the game that a lot of people feel are cheap, even though they are actively encouraged. I think when the best piece of advice for a new player that I actually heard uttered in an all PA game (the same one, actually) is that you should be meleeing more than shooting, there's a problem. Part of the reason for having ridiculously high amounts of ammo at any given time is so you can be spraying bullets like a motherfucker. so what if the game doesn't explicitly mention that infected can aggro the witch. Think to yourself: why would the devs even have real friendly fire for the infected? Why isn't is taken away for certain classes, like the witch?
If it's patched out, I don't care. I already told you on here that I won't do it any more with PA'ers unless we are pub baiting or just fucking around. So I didn't stop last night when you asked me to. Get over it. If it had been more than a combination of dumb luck on my part, I would have. I'm not a good enough player to coordinate something like that properly. The times it did happen were accidents. If you want to know a time when it WASN'T an accident...BH2, you remember, when I ran through you guys with the witch on my tail instead of pouncing one of you after you opened the door. If I was really trying to be a dick the entire time, I would have pounced you and laughed at the incap.
As for the log "exploit," I was trying to get it through the hole in the side of the building. If I wanted to take advantage of not losing control, I wouldn't have been sitting somewhere where you can shoot me the entire time. My intention wasn't to keep control, it was me trying to use dumb luck to actually knock the log into the room and take care of your little corner.
As for the "vocalize playerdeath," I suppose you're going to call the other 2 people on my four person team dicks for doing it?
Oh, and don't throw stones. You want to know what at least one of your tanks was doing? Punching through the wall to the left of the gun rack. Exploit much? I normally don't give a shit, but you were hardly innocent in the game.
What if the infected got to choose the tank spawn and witch spawn? I don't know how the UI would work for it, but what about that?
I was wondering
While Dave Sirlin is great, that article only applies to competitive gaming. So, unless we all decide that Left 4 Dead is srs bizness, nothing in that article applies.
GT: Tanky the Tank
Black: 1377 6749 7425
it's fun
Because I don't want to pay 30$ extra for the game because I busted my cap?
There's a reason I bought the CD and I swear Valve will pay every penny my ISP will charge me if I have to download it.
EDIT: And reinstalling Steam didn't do it. I don't think Steam is the problem.
Coming from the person that did it, this destroys your entire argument. You basically right here say that the timing and method made it destructive when BOTH were accidental. In other words, you don't mind me moving around the witch. You mind that during the 45 seconds to aggro her, a tank spawned and that while I was trying to run her through your group, somebody moved in front of me and got pounced.
You basically are upset about the application of an exploit when you say that rather than being upset about the exploit itself. Which is silly.
Also, survivors don't have to be close for the hunter to aggro her. Case in point, NM 3 a few weeks back: the survivors had already gone downstairs to the sewer. The witch is in the warehouse. I aggro her and she chases me THROUGH THE ENTIRE MAP to them in the pre-sewer room. After they had already passed her.
Pardon the pun but the flamethrower is a lie.
dream a little dream or you could live a little dream
sleep forever if you wish to be a dreamer
Steam: MightyPotatoKing
I'd be using that in the elevator, not the closet.
Oh yeah, the gattling guns too. All over the roofs in the NM finale. Anywhere indoors in the BH finale.
Supposedly they're working on a new special infected that is specifically designed to counter closet campers
The last word on what they were making was something along the lines of a 'hemp net'
Either Steam is back up, or I've passed the Turing test.
heh. heheh.
GT: Tanky the Tank
Black: 1377 6749 7425
When did they say that?
I never asked for this!
get off my lawn
I expect they're commissioning the statues as we speak.
Steam - Minty D. Vision!
Origin/BF3 - MintyDVision
Seriously, who gives a fuck? its fun every frikken time. If you play about winning, go joiin the PGL, hack, exploit, whatever, I don't care, even if I lose against you!
Sometimes you get shitty teamates. If one person takes the lead, you have a chance to win.
Shitty spawns, such as tank right out of the safe room, witch blocking your path, good communication/teamwork overcomes this.
Yes sometimes you get screwed, sometiimes your oppenents gets screwed, its kinda like poker. Play the mathmatical percentages and you'll come out ahead. Soemtiems you get screwed, and thats what you remember. You never remember the times your set held up.
Games are played for fun, and I'm sorry, the randomess of the AID, adds to the fucking game. You know you got screwed on that last level, this level, your talkiing more, working more as a team. Hey, you made it to the safe room rounds 1 and 2? Guess what, your not making it to the safe room round 3. Your opponents are. Oh, looky there! THe score is seperated by 500 points.
You play videogames for fun. I play videogames for fun. Part of the fun of L4D is the randomness. everyone gets screwed eventually. If you're all about winning, go play madden or something and GTF out of my game!
*Off topic. How long does this jailing last? I miss editing. First bad post, got baited in by trolls. Well, they called me trolls, but all the posts were just to get me to post something and get in trouble. Second one, well, PA rules are stricter than any other forum (Brought up emulation without asking for anything, any source, any website)
/even though I totally play vs. to win.
I like to win, and I play to win myself. I prefer to have teamates who communicate, and give me a chance. But even in those horrible losses, theres some funny moments, and a good hour of fun.
How can you argue against making the game more fun?
And as for the tank thing, You do know that if 2 players just stand there doing nothing intead of hitting cars/logs, you'll end up facing 4 human Infected/1 Ai tank right? The AI will just sit there doing nothing untill your in range. So, really, their almost helping you. And if you run to a closet, well, arn't you both being gay?
dream a little dream or you could live a little dream
sleep forever if you wish to be a dreamer
You stop it. Stop it now.
L-cancel is dead. Its never coming back.
GT: Tanky the Tank
Black: 1377 6749 7425
It lasts until your points run out. By looking at your profile, you are unjailed on January 17.
*actually I think it's when you're between 0-2 points, but since your infraction is at 3 you're jailed until it expires.