What happens after the witch kills the hunter and if everybody just stood still and turned off their lights? Does she go back to weeping, or does she run off like she just killed a survivor?
I think she runs off, but it's also possible she runs off and just sits down to weep somewhere else, because once we found her again later.
I can't say I agree with infected moving the witch, but then I also think she needs to be buffed a bit. Especially against flashlights, I think if there's one thing the witch should do is force you to go without light for the duration, she should aggro on a flashlight being shined directly on her immediately, and extend her aggro range a bit.
Most people don't even bother shutting off the light and can just run past her at the max possible distance, she gets a bit riled but they're gone before it becomes an attack.
Using the spawn points as justification I don't like either. I've had plenty of witches in front of the safe room when the other team got one right out in the open. But those are the breaks, the director is bullshit sometimes but you just have to suck it up. As long as one team isn't steam rolling the other the game is fun regardless.
Rami on
Steam / Xbox Live: WSDX NNID: W-S-D-X 3DS FC: 2637-9461-8549
Well shit, I wait forever to get my computer fixed and now my ping in both this and TF2 is horrible.
How I fix ping?
place modem on floor. data travels faster downhill.
THIS WORKED
nah it didn't funny guy.
Is there a website or something I can go to to check if my internet speed is as high as it should be? I moved and, while I didn't have a computer, my xbox live download speed seemed pretty slow.
Well shit, I wait forever to get my computer fixed and now my ping in both this and TF2 is horrible.
How I fix ping?
place modem on floor. data travels faster downhill.
THIS WORKED
nah it didn't funny guy.
Is there a website or something I can go to to check if my internet speed is as high as it should be? I moved and, while I didn't have a computer, my xbox live download speed seemed pretty slow.
Well shit, I wait forever to get my computer fixed and now my ping in both this and TF2 is horrible.
How I fix ping?
place modem on floor. data travels faster downhill.
THIS WORKED
nah it didn't funny guy.
Is there a website or something I can go to to check if my internet speed is as high as it should be? I moved and, while I didn't have a computer, my xbox live download speed seemed pretty slow.
That's because data is a non-newtonian fluid. Increase the pressure on your modem to make it more fluid like.
Last night had some fun games. One BH vs. match was great, where Mooman got the tank no less than 4 times, and despite us being short 1-2 people the entire match, we came out on top, but only just.
Great deal of fun, this game is.
Icemopper on
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FiggyFighter of the night manChampion of the sunRegistered Userregular
edited December 2008
Man, stop lying to cover your obvious bullshit tactic, Twisted.
1) I knew an infected had aggro'd the witch the first time you did it, I just thought it was the tank. How did I know? Because the witch was nowhere NEAR us, she is suddenly ATTACKING us, and there was no "SoAndSo disturbed the Witch" pop up. I even said over chat, "That was cheap." You then said, "HAHA YOU THOUGHT YOU DID IT" or some stupid shit.
2) It's not as easy as ignoring you. The first time, you did it when the tank spawned on us.. so we're trying to fight the fucking tank in this crammed area, and then a hunter and a witch come running into the middle of our group. Fucking OBVIOUSLY a bullet is going to hit her.
The second time you did it, you pounced one of us. At that very moment, at least two more of your infected spawned on us. Chaos. There's really no way to avoid aggoring the witch now, because we're smoked, boomered, one guy's pounced, and there is a witch standing in the middle of it all. I don't care if you intended to pounce or not, it was still a dick move and you did it even after I had called you on it in the previous game, making you even more of a fucking dick.
Once again, it's not easy to "ignore the witch" when you do this intentionally right in the middle of the shit that was happening. You then tried to do it a third time in the emergency door room on BH, but it didn't work and the witch repositioned.
3) She wasn't in a "bullshit out-of-the-way" place in two of the instances you did this. On NM, she was where she out near the gas station. In BH near the hut, she was on the path leading to the next area. I saw you going nuts on her and then pounce us.
4) You do this because Melee is overpowered? Last I checked, both teams can melee when they play survivors, and your team did it in spades as well. In fact, you guys were the ones that decided to set the standard of camping the weapons closet corner in the finale when the tank came. We did the same when our turn came, and when you (I'm pretty sure it was you who controlled the tank) sat outside the house knocking the log around for like 10 fucking minutes. Finally I got sick of sitting in there and ran out to start an actual fight. (Yeah, log/car smacking to stop the Control timer is an exploit too)
5) I wouldn't be surprised if the last tank was taken across the map so it fucked up the spawn of it. I wouldn't put it past you. So far, you've exploited the witch, used the log exploit, and spent half the fucking game using your "vocalize player death" bind. It's like you have a list of stupid fucking shit to do in front of you as you play.
I'm not butthurt about losing. I don't give a shit about scores in VS. I'm "butthurt" because I had said the witch trick was a dick move and an exploit, and you sat there and mocked us about it, and then did it again later on. I said the same thing and you mocked us some more, laughing all the way. Then.. you tried to do it a third time. Fucking classy, Twisted. I expect a certain level of respect from people in a PA game, and last night that was certainly not the case. I'm pretty sure if it were anyone else, they wouldn't have done it after someone complained once.
Using the spawn points as justification I don't like either. I've had plenty of witches in front of the safe room when the other team got one right out in the open. But those are the breaks, the director is bullshit sometimes but you just have to suck it up. As long as one team isn't steam rolling the other the game is fun regardless.
Exactly. Plus, the witch is a fucking piece of cake to take down in Normal if you catch her before she gets up. It's easier to take care of her if she's right in front of you, because you don't have to stray from the path and risk other infected attacking you as you do it.
Every time someone brings this stuff up I find myself yet again not understanding why people hate fun. It's not fun to sit in a closet facing zero threat and it's not fun to try and assail four tightly-packed endlessly meleeing survivors in a small one-entrance room. It sucks.
People endlessly overstate the power of the closet. That's the real disagreement. I get yelled at by scrub survivors who honestly believe that the closet is the best way to avoid taking damage on the NM elevator panic. It really isn't, IMO.
I can't tell you how many times I've destroyed a team right there because they insisted on staying in the closet. Just make sure the infected don't allow the last person in there and they'll be at a huge disadvantage.
Also, hi. Had some great games on Armadeaddon last night and thought I'd account it up.
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SarksusATTACK AND DETHRONE GODRegistered Userregular
edited December 2008
Figgy not everyone thinks it's an exploit so you just end up looking like you're complaining that the infected side made the game too difficult.
You know, there is a tactic that can work against grouped survivors who just melee a ton, particularly in crescendo moments. It involves using the knock back caused by the boomer as an opportunity to pounce the players and drag one away as the smoker. It can disrupt the survivors pretty badly if done at the correct time.
Hard to pull off, and waiting till the survivors need to move to attack, or just getting some swipes in, is maybe a more reliable method but a well organized infected team can use that tactic to some affect.
Figgy not everyone thinks it's an exploit so you just end up looking like you're complaining that the infected side made the game too difficult.
Difficulty had nothing to do with it. It's not fun. Every other moment in both games we played last night were a blast (except for the bugged BH finale), and when the witch was trained on us our entire team was just like, "What the fuck."
The reason the PA group exists is to play some great matches and avoid PUBs filled with dickwads and terrible experiences. It's more fun playing a PA game, but the witch training basically turned that moment of the round into "why am I here again?"
Honestly, the witch in versus is pretty underpowered. Training the witch might be against the intentions of the developers, but its nowhere near game-breaking, and honestly I wouldn't care if it were used against me. Theres so many other things that are in greater need of fixing.
Figgy not everyone thinks it's an exploit so you just end up looking like you're complaining that the infected side made the game too difficult.
Not everyone thinks Bush was a bad president so those who complain just end up looking like they're sore losers because their favored candidate didn't win
Honestly, the witch in versus is pretty underpowered. Training the witch might be against the intentions of the developers, but its nowhere near game-breaking, and honestly I wouldn't care if it were used against me. Theres so many other things that are in greater need of fixing.
When it happens at the moment of a tank spawn or when other infected are fighting you, it's basically an auto-incap on one of your survivors. The witch herself is a joke, but if done right, the witch train can be borderline unstoppable.
Figgy not everyone thinks it's an exploit so you just end up looking like you're complaining that the infected side made the game too difficult.
Difficulty had nothing to do with it. It's not fun. Every other moment in both games we played last night were a blast (except for the bugged BH finale), and when the witch was trained on us our entire team was just like, "What the fuck."
The reason the PA group exists is to play some great matches and avoid PUBs filled with dickwads and terrible experiences. It's more fun playing a PA game, but the witch training basically turned that moment of the round into "why am I here again?"
Just disappointing.
I don't see how being unexpectedly attacked by the witch could ruin your game that much. Most failures are attributed to unexpected events in the game, and the infected players will often take advantage of those occurrences.
The witch is just a joke now. Killing her without anyone going down is pretty easy in Versus as long as the pressure is off from special infected.
1. Lock survivor closets unless a survivor is inside.
2. Since there are countless corners, you can't completely stop corner-whoring. However, it can be prevented by making it so all four survivors can't sit in one corner. 1 survivor in a corner is a lot less effective than all four.
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SarksusATTACK AND DETHRONE GODRegistered Userregular
Figgy not everyone thinks it's an exploit so you just end up looking like you're complaining that the infected side made the game too difficult.
Not everyone thinks Bush was a bad president so those who complain just end up looking like they're sore losers because their favored candidate didn't win
You should probably win an award for this analogy, because it's pretty terrible. Actually, the majority of people here, as far as I have read, seem to disagree that this "training" is an exploit and agree that the witch is borderline harmless. So in your analogy, the people who dislike Bush are the people who are fine with the exploit, and the people who like him, dislike the exploit. Your analogy isn't really working in your favor.
Actually, once change I wouldn't mind much would be if survivors couldn't walk through one another. I'm not completely sure why that was taken out, beyond that survivors could originally push one another.
I don't see how being unexpectedly attacked by the witch could ruin your game that much. Most failures are attributed to unexpected events in the game, and the infected players will often take advantage of those occurrences.
The witch is just a joke now. Killing her without anyone going down is pretty easy in Versus as long as the pressure is off from special infected.
It's clear you just don't understand what I'm saying when I explain how a trained witch works, or why it's such a problem.
It's okay.. I don't think I would see a problem with it either if I never saw it happen to my team. It's not as easy as "Oh hunter has a witch... leave him alone." or "shotgun that witch over there."
And like I said, it didn't ruin my game, but it annoyed the team in the moment and made me see Twisted as a griefer, especially since I said each time he did it I thought it was cheap and annoying.. some responses were "LULZ" and "Your melee is overpowered!"
I was half expected, "Your mom!" at one point. Just not what I expect from a game with PAers.
Because it's really really annoying in online play. You can't walk through people in campaigns but in vs it would be way too annoying, especially if you get an asshat in your team who intentionally blocks people in.
Rami on
Steam / Xbox Live: WSDX NNID: W-S-D-X 3DS FC: 2637-9461-8549
There is already partial collision detection in VS that lets you walk through people but adds some repelling force if you are inside someone. Maybe just make that force a bit strong or something so that you can't effectively stay in one spot, inside one another.
I think most people would be pretty happy with the witch instakilling any infected that did more than brush by her once. It seems like the most reasonable fix.
Hockey Johnston on
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FiggyFighter of the night manChampion of the sunRegistered Userregular
I think most people would be pretty happy with the witch instakilling any infected that did more than brush by her once. It seems like the most reasonable fix.
Or just take off FF for the witch. I see no reason why infected should be able to attack her.
SarksusATTACK AND DETHRONE GODRegistered Userregular
edited December 2008
I am pretty sure I understand what you're talking about. You're talking about using the Hunter to upset a witch so it follows the Hunter, then the Hunter brings the witch to the survivor team, correct? I don't see the problem. An unexpected witch is still less dangerous than a tank encounter and I don't care how the witch came to arrive at your location. The witch is weak, if the infected team can use her in such a way as to make her more effective then go ahead.
And I think you too easily label people as griefers. Just because you think something is cheap and annoying, and the opposing player does it anyway, does not make them a griefer. Mocking you because they think you're making a big deal out of nothing is also nothing out of the ordinary. Penny Arcade is seriously not some kind of magical land inhabited by pristine gold asses that shit out rainbows, you are deluding yourself if you think we are above mocking other people.
I think most people would be pretty happy with the witch instakilling any infected that did more than brush by her once. It seems like the most reasonable fix.
Or just take off FF for the witch. I see no reason why infected should be able to attack her.
Yeah why should any of the infected be able to attack each other, they're teammates after all...
Actually, once change I wouldn't mind much would be if survivors couldn't walk through one another. I'm not completely sure why that was taken out, beyond that survivors could originally push one another.
Imagine this: A tank is coming from behind, and Francis is being a douche and standing in the middle the only doorway.
Elevator closet and weapons corner are lame and anyone who willingly decides to use it is lame.
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FiggyFighter of the night manChampion of the sunRegistered Userregular
I am pretty sure I understand what you're talking about. You're talking about using the Hunter to upset a witch so it follows the Hunter, then the Hunter brings the witch to the survivor team, correct? I don't see the problem. An unexpected witch is still less dangerous than a tank encounter and I don't care how the witch came to arrive at your location. The witch is weak, if the infected team can use her in such a way as to make her more effective then go ahead.
That's not how it happened in any of the cases, and if it were, it would have been a joke to sit back and watch the hunter get raped by the witch.
Really, you won't get it by me telling you. The timing and method was what made it so destructive. It was unavoidable and resulted in automatic incap of one of the survivors in each case. The first time it was during a fucking tank fight to boot.
Edit: And I'm not saying PAers are sunshine bandits, but we're generally not fucktards to each other in a friendly game. generally.
Hit detection doesn't always have to be on for cornering to be prevented. Basically each corner has a small detection zone. If someone is inside of that zone, nobody else can enter it.
Zombiemambo on
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SarksusATTACK AND DETHRONE GODRegistered Userregular
I am pretty sure I understand what you're talking about. You're talking about using the Hunter to upset a witch so it follows the Hunter, then the Hunter brings the witch to the survivor team, correct? I don't see the problem. An unexpected witch is still less dangerous than a tank encounter and I don't care how the witch came to arrive at your location. The witch is weak, if the infected team can use her in such a way as to make her more effective then go ahead.
That's not how it happened in any of the cases, and if it were, it would have been a joke to sit back and watch the hunter get raped by the witch.
Really, you won't get it by me telling you. The timing and method was what made it so destructive. It was unavoidable and resulted in automatic incap of one of the survivors in each case. The first time it was during a fucking tank fight to boot.
Edit: And I'm not saying PAers are sunshine bandits, but we're generally not fucktards to each other in a friendly game. generally.
So it's not even the "exploit" itself, it's how it was used? The special infected are supposed to coordinate their attack. Ideally they should attack all at once and incapacitate as many players as possible without giving them a chance to retaliate.
I mean should the infected just hang back in general whenever there's a tank because interfering would lead to the possible incapacitation of one or more of your team members?
The witch is there, it's supposed to be an obstacle to the survivors, the infected players already use her as a tool by standing over her and luring survivors into shooting her, this is just another way of using her against the survivors.
So it's not even the "exploit" itself, it's how it was used? The special infected are supposed to coordinate their attack. Ideally they should attack all at once and incapacitate as many players as possible without giving them a chance to retaliate.
I mean should the infected just hang back in general whenever there's a tank because interfering would lead to the possible incapacitation of one or more of your team members?
The witch is there, it's supposed to be an obstacle to the survivors, the infected players already use her as a tool by standing over her and luring survivors into shooting her, this is just another way of using her against the survivors.
It's hard to explain, and I can certainly see how it seems like I'm just whining because I lost the game.
In any case, it's over, and I'm it's not the last time I'll see it done. I guess we'll find out next patch what Valve's stance on it is.
Infected are supposed to plan around the witch, not interact with it. I'm sure this'll get patched out if it becomes common. And it's obviously a bit of bad sportsmanship.
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SarksusATTACK AND DETHRONE GODRegistered Userregular
So it's not even the "exploit" itself, it's how it was used? The special infected are supposed to coordinate their attack. Ideally they should attack all at once and incapacitate as many players as possible without giving them a chance to retaliate.
I mean should the infected just hang back in general whenever there's a tank because interfering would lead to the possible incapacitation of one or more of your team members?
The witch is there, it's supposed to be an obstacle to the survivors, the infected players already use her as a tool by standing over her and luring survivors into shooting her, this is just another way of using her against the survivors.
It's hard to explain, and I can certainly see how it seems like I'm just whining because I lost the game.
In any case, it's over, and I'm it's not the last time I'll see it done. I guess we'll find out next patch what Valve's stance on it is.
Fair enough. I'd actually like to see this done, because it is possible I'm missing some nuance to it. From what I've read, though, it doesn't seem like a big deal. If it gets patched out I won't complain, either.
Hockey Johnson: It has not been established to be an obvious bit of bad sportsmanship because it is under contested debate at this very moment (or was, in any case).
Training the witch is problematic because it allows the infected to control when the confrontation takes place, rather than let the survivors try to avoid/take her down. It means that you will get someone incapacitated during the worst moment, like with a tank or a 3-person boom. Perhaps it's possible to balance this huge shift of power for the witch, but I really don't trust that it's going to magically work out to a fun, understandable mechanic for both teams.
RandomEngy on
Profile -> Signature Settings -> Hide signatures always. Then you don't have to read this worthless text anymore.
Hit detection doesn't always have to be on for cornering to be prevented. Basically each corner has a small detection zone. If someone is inside of that zone, nobody else can enter it.
If you have to add a "No Homers" zone to every 90-degree angle structure manually in the editor, it would be impossibly tedious. And if it gets done procedurally and automatically, you know there would be bugs, invisible walls, and places getting it where it shouldn't be.
I was just about to say this.
I'd prefer it if Valve just slowed down the speed of melee in Vs mode. There's also a relatively long window open after you press the button and when, during the swing animation, zombies get knocked back. I think shortening that up would help, too.
A lot of the complaints about playing infected can easily be overcome when the infected team attacks as a group.
For example, the Smoker can't pull people from ledges when all four survivors are anticipating it. Throw a boomer and/or hunter into the mix, and the smoker has enough of a distraction to do something about it.
Or, the many times a Boomer has the opportunity to ambush can be greatly enhanced if the survivors are distracted by a hunter and/or smoker.
Hunter can't get in a shot with all that melee? Use your teammates for distractions, then pounce the survivors from above and behind. If the survivors are not distracted, consider melee or pouncing from great distance (damage from pouncing favors distance over height.)
If they patch it out, I hope they at the same time patch IN a little more danger associated with the witch in Versus mode, because she is a flat-out joke right now and so difficult to take advantage of as infected. I want to feel a little terror when there's a witch coming up. I want to know that she'll be in my way and that we need to watch ALL corners for special infected, salivating at the opportunity to mix shit up for real.
I'd prefer it if Valve just slowed down the speed of melee in Vs mode. There's also a relatively long window open after you press the button and when, during the swing animation, zombies get knocked back. I think shortening that up would help, too.
Agreed. I think a good melee fix would be to give a bit more of a window between melee swipes for the infected to attack. As of right now you have to time it basically perfectly. Also I suspect the lag compensation is not working effectively here as you can think you're attacking between swipes but you really aren't. Anyway a bit of a vulnerable window means you need to switch up to weapons more often and can't just face the hunter noise and hold down right click; you'd need to be a bit more deliberate.
RandomEngy on
Profile -> Signature Settings -> Hide signatures always. Then you don't have to read this worthless text anymore.
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I think she runs off, but it's also possible she runs off and just sits down to weep somewhere else, because once we found her again later.
Most people don't even bother shutting off the light and can just run past her at the max possible distance, she gets a bit riled but they're gone before it becomes an attack.
Using the spawn points as justification I don't like either. I've had plenty of witches in front of the safe room when the other team got one right out in the open. But those are the breaks, the director is bullshit sometimes but you just have to suck it up. As long as one team isn't steam rolling the other the game is fun regardless.
THIS WORKED
nah it didn't funny guy.
Is there a website or something I can go to to check if my internet speed is as high as it should be? I moved and, while I didn't have a computer, my xbox live download speed seemed pretty slow.
Go to http://speedtest.net/ to test your internet speed.
That's because data is a non-newtonian fluid. Increase the pressure on your modem to make it more fluid like.
edit: Worst ToTP post ever
Great deal of fun, this game is.
1) I knew an infected had aggro'd the witch the first time you did it, I just thought it was the tank. How did I know? Because the witch was nowhere NEAR us, she is suddenly ATTACKING us, and there was no "SoAndSo disturbed the Witch" pop up. I even said over chat, "That was cheap." You then said, "HAHA YOU THOUGHT YOU DID IT" or some stupid shit.
2) It's not as easy as ignoring you. The first time, you did it when the tank spawned on us.. so we're trying to fight the fucking tank in this crammed area, and then a hunter and a witch come running into the middle of our group. Fucking OBVIOUSLY a bullet is going to hit her.
The second time you did it, you pounced one of us. At that very moment, at least two more of your infected spawned on us. Chaos. There's really no way to avoid aggoring the witch now, because we're smoked, boomered, one guy's pounced, and there is a witch standing in the middle of it all. I don't care if you intended to pounce or not, it was still a dick move and you did it even after I had called you on it in the previous game, making you even more of a fucking dick.
Once again, it's not easy to "ignore the witch" when you do this intentionally right in the middle of the shit that was happening. You then tried to do it a third time in the emergency door room on BH, but it didn't work and the witch repositioned.
3) She wasn't in a "bullshit out-of-the-way" place in two of the instances you did this. On NM, she was where she out near the gas station. In BH near the hut, she was on the path leading to the next area. I saw you going nuts on her and then pounce us.
4) You do this because Melee is overpowered? Last I checked, both teams can melee when they play survivors, and your team did it in spades as well. In fact, you guys were the ones that decided to set the standard of camping the weapons closet corner in the finale when the tank came. We did the same when our turn came, and when you (I'm pretty sure it was you who controlled the tank) sat outside the house knocking the log around for like 10 fucking minutes. Finally I got sick of sitting in there and ran out to start an actual fight. (Yeah, log/car smacking to stop the Control timer is an exploit too)
5) I wouldn't be surprised if the last tank was taken across the map so it fucked up the spawn of it. I wouldn't put it past you. So far, you've exploited the witch, used the log exploit, and spent half the fucking game using your "vocalize player death" bind. It's like you have a list of stupid fucking shit to do in front of you as you play.
I'm not butthurt about losing. I don't give a shit about scores in VS. I'm "butthurt" because I had said the witch trick was a dick move and an exploit, and you sat there and mocked us about it, and then did it again later on. I said the same thing and you mocked us some more, laughing all the way. Then.. you tried to do it a third time. Fucking classy, Twisted. I expect a certain level of respect from people in a PA game, and last night that was certainly not the case. I'm pretty sure if it were anyone else, they wouldn't have done it after someone complained once.
Exactly. Plus, the witch is a fucking piece of cake to take down in Normal if you catch her before she gets up. It's easier to take care of her if she's right in front of you, because you don't have to stray from the path and risk other infected attacking you as you do it.
People endlessly overstate the power of the closet. That's the real disagreement. I get yelled at by scrub survivors who honestly believe that the closet is the best way to avoid taking damage on the NM elevator panic. It really isn't, IMO.
I can't tell you how many times I've destroyed a team right there because they insisted on staying in the closet. Just make sure the infected don't allow the last person in there and they'll be at a huge disadvantage.
Also, hi. Had some great games on Armadeaddon last night and thought I'd account it up.
Hard to pull off, and waiting till the survivors need to move to attack, or just getting some swipes in, is maybe a more reliable method but a well organized infected team can use that tactic to some affect.
Secret Satan
Difficulty had nothing to do with it. It's not fun. Every other moment in both games we played last night were a blast (except for the bugged BH finale), and when the witch was trained on us our entire team was just like, "What the fuck."
The reason the PA group exists is to play some great matches and avoid PUBs filled with dickwads and terrible experiences. It's more fun playing a PA game, but the witch training basically turned that moment of the round into "why am I here again?"
Just disappointing.
GT: Tanky the Tank
Black: 1377 6749 7425
Not everyone thinks Bush was a bad president so those who complain just end up looking like they're sore losers because their favored candidate didn't win
When it happens at the moment of a tank spawn or when other infected are fighting you, it's basically an auto-incap on one of your survivors. The witch herself is a joke, but if done right, the witch train can be borderline unstoppable.
"Tank!"
*slam* *slam* *slam*
*scream*
"Witch?"
"Louis..."
I don't see how being unexpectedly attacked by the witch could ruin your game that much. Most failures are attributed to unexpected events in the game, and the infected players will often take advantage of those occurrences.
The witch is just a joke now. Killing her without anyone going down is pretty easy in Versus as long as the pressure is off from special infected.
1. Lock survivor closets unless a survivor is inside.
2. Since there are countless corners, you can't completely stop corner-whoring. However, it can be prevented by making it so all four survivors can't sit in one corner. 1 survivor in a corner is a lot less effective than all four.
You should probably win an award for this analogy, because it's pretty terrible. Actually, the majority of people here, as far as I have read, seem to disagree that this "training" is an exploit and agree that the witch is borderline harmless. So in your analogy, the people who dislike Bush are the people who are fine with the exploit, and the people who like him, dislike the exploit. Your analogy isn't really working in your favor.
Secret Satan
It's clear you just don't understand what I'm saying when I explain how a trained witch works, or why it's such a problem.
It's okay.. I don't think I would see a problem with it either if I never saw it happen to my team. It's not as easy as "Oh hunter has a witch... leave him alone." or "shotgun that witch over there."
And like I said, it didn't ruin my game, but it annoyed the team in the moment and made me see Twisted as a griefer, especially since I said each time he did it I thought it was cheap and annoying.. some responses were "LULZ" and "Your melee is overpowered!"
I was half expected, "Your mom!" at one point. Just not what I expect from a game with PAers.
GT: Tanky the Tank
Black: 1377 6749 7425
Secret Satan
Or just take off FF for the witch. I see no reason why infected should be able to attack her.
And I think you too easily label people as griefers. Just because you think something is cheap and annoying, and the opposing player does it anyway, does not make them a griefer. Mocking you because they think you're making a big deal out of nothing is also nothing out of the ordinary. Penny Arcade is seriously not some kind of magical land inhabited by pristine gold asses that shit out rainbows, you are deluding yourself if you think we are above mocking other people.
Yeah why should any of the infected be able to attack each other, they're teammates after all...
Imagine this: A tank is coming from behind, and Francis is being a douche and standing in the middle the only doorway.
Elevator closet and weapons corner are lame and anyone who willingly decides to use it is lame.
That's not how it happened in any of the cases, and if it were, it would have been a joke to sit back and watch the hunter get raped by the witch.
Really, you won't get it by me telling you. The timing and method was what made it so destructive. It was unavoidable and resulted in automatic incap of one of the survivors in each case. The first time it was during a fucking tank fight to boot.
Edit: And I'm not saying PAers are sunshine bandits, but we're generally not fucktards to each other in a friendly game. generally.
So it's not even the "exploit" itself, it's how it was used? The special infected are supposed to coordinate their attack. Ideally they should attack all at once and incapacitate as many players as possible without giving them a chance to retaliate.
I mean should the infected just hang back in general whenever there's a tank because interfering would lead to the possible incapacitation of one or more of your team members?
The witch is there, it's supposed to be an obstacle to the survivors, the infected players already use her as a tool by standing over her and luring survivors into shooting her, this is just another way of using her against the survivors.
It's hard to explain, and I can certainly see how it seems like I'm just whining because I lost the game.
In any case, it's over, and I'm it's not the last time I'll see it done. I guess we'll find out next patch what Valve's stance on it is.
Fair enough. I'd actually like to see this done, because it is possible I'm missing some nuance to it. From what I've read, though, it doesn't seem like a big deal. If it gets patched out I won't complain, either.
Hockey Johnson: It has not been established to be an obvious bit of bad sportsmanship because it is under contested debate at this very moment (or was, in any case).
I was just about to say this.
I'd prefer it if Valve just slowed down the speed of melee in Vs mode. There's also a relatively long window open after you press the button and when, during the swing animation, zombies get knocked back. I think shortening that up would help, too.
For example, the Smoker can't pull people from ledges when all four survivors are anticipating it. Throw a boomer and/or hunter into the mix, and the smoker has enough of a distraction to do something about it.
Or, the many times a Boomer has the opportunity to ambush can be greatly enhanced if the survivors are distracted by a hunter and/or smoker.
Hunter can't get in a shot with all that melee? Use your teammates for distractions, then pounce the survivors from above and behind. If the survivors are not distracted, consider melee or pouncing from great distance (damage from pouncing favors distance over height.)
Never attack alone.
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Agreed. I think a good melee fix would be to give a bit more of a window between melee swipes for the infected to attack. As of right now you have to time it basically perfectly. Also I suspect the lag compensation is not working effectively here as you can think you're attacking between swipes but you really aren't. Anyway a bit of a vulnerable window means you need to switch up to weapons more often and can't just face the hunter noise and hold down right click; you'd need to be a bit more deliberate.