Only reason you were leading is because of cheapness.. which I'm going to go as far to say was an exploit.
It's the first time I've seen it... but Twist_of_Fate would continually use the hunter to train the witch over to us, pounce on us, and we'd then have an automatically downed survivor (and, further chaos becuase the rest of the infected team would capitalize on that moment.) This witch was often not even NEAR us, and we would have avoided it completely otherwise, or simply shotgunned her down as usual before she got up. Using this exploit, it's much more difficult to take her out before she incaps a survivor.
One instance he even did as a tank was on us. Classy.
The witch's purpose is to make the team change from "run and gun like crazy" to "stealth mode," as it's described in the dev. commentary. Using the hunter to train the witch is absolutely contrary to the purpose and intention of that boss infected.
I'm sure it will be patched out eventually, but I was disgusted by the fact that he kept doing it, even after I had said I found it stupid and cheap. I figured a PAer wouldn't go "Pub-style" and say "Oh well!" and keep doing it.
Please elaborate on this. My first instinct is to put the comment off as someone on your team being dumb and shooting at a hunter that happens to be near a witch, which then comes and smacks his face off.
And did they not just hide the second tank from view? Like run it back through the cornfield? If AI takes control of the tank, it will just sit there untill a survivor shoots it or gets close enough to trigger him.
My second explanation lead me to make this post. If they were to stoop so low as to exploit that, then if they found a way to exploit the witch, they sure as hell would have done that also. I would like Valve to implement some kind of shit list option for negative feedback on people, and be able to set your servers to ban anyone with a low enough rating. Then again, I guess the PA group can kind of do that so maybe I should join the chat.
I'm sorta of mixed minds about the "moving the witch" thing. I've seen plenty of matches where the with is Right In The Damn Way for one team, and So Far Off The Beaten Path She's Basically Not Even There for the other teamm, and in such cases, it's perfectly justified.
And if it's cool to move her for game balance, it's just cool to move her. It's a clever use of game mechanics.
But the other part of me says "But that's not being true to the developer's vision" and then the first part of me clubs that guy over the head and tells him to be quiet for a while.
It would be really nice if the game balanced on score - the team in the lead can expect more tanks, witches in the way, all that kind of thing, but it doesn't. I've been a team that's really behind in score that's gotten a tank in the first 30s inside a building with L1 weapons more times than I really care to count. So long, long ago I stopped playing to win, and just started playing to see the horrible, horrible end of the survivors each round.
Besides, isn't the witch just following the hunter? Like, he's the one she's pissed at. Kill him and she'll sit back down. Or ignore her while she chases him down.
Only reason you were leading is because of cheapness.. which I'm going to go as far to say was an exploit.
It's the first time I've seen it... but Twist_of_Fate would continually use the hunter to train the witch over to us, pounce on us, and we'd then have an automatically downed survivor (and, further chaos becuase the rest of the infected team would capitalize on that moment.) This witch was often not even NEAR us, and we would have avoided it completely otherwise, or simply shotgunned her down as usual before she got up. Using this exploit, it's much more difficult to take her out before she incaps a survivor.
One instance he even did as a tank was on us. Classy.
The witch's purpose is to make the team change from "run and gun like crazy" to "stealth mode," as it's described in the dev. commentary. Using the hunter to train the witch is absolutely contrary to the purpose and intention of that boss infected.
I'm sure it will be patched out eventually, but I was disgusted by the fact that he kept doing it, even after I had said I found it stupid and cheap. I figured a PAer wouldn't go "Pub-style" and say "Oh well!" and keep doing it.
Please elaborate on this. My first instinct is to put the comment off as someone on your team being dumb and shooting at a hunter that happens to be near a witch, which then comes and smacks his face off.
And did they not just hide the second tank from view? Like run it back through the cornfield? If AI takes control of the tank, it will just sit there untill a survivor shoots it or gets close enough to trigger him.
My second explanation lead me to make this post. If they were to stoop so low as to exploit that, then if they found a way to exploit the witch, they sure as hell would have done that also. I would like Valve to implement some kind of shit list option for negative feedback on people, and be able to set your servers to ban anyone with a low enough rating. Then again, I guess the PA group can kind of do that so maybe I should join the chat.
It's possible to aggro the witch as infected and move her around.
It's possible to aggro the witch as infected and move her around.
How is that done? As infected I have always just stood near the witch and hope to get shot at or as a smoker and try to pull someone near the witch. She's never cared about me otherwise. Just sits there and cries until something happens.
Only reason you were leading is because of cheapness.. which I'm going to go as far to say was an exploit.
It's the first time I've seen it... but Twist_of_Fate would continually use the hunter to train the witch over to us, pounce on us, and we'd then have an automatically downed survivor (and, further chaos becuase the rest of the infected team would capitalize on that moment.) This witch was often not even NEAR us, and we would have avoided it completely otherwise, or simply shotgunned her down as usual before she got up. Using this exploit, it's much more difficult to take her out before she incaps a survivor.
One instance he even did as a tank was on us. Classy.
The witch's purpose is to make the team change from "run and gun like crazy" to "stealth mode," as it's described in the dev. commentary. Using the hunter to train the witch is absolutely contrary to the purpose and intention of that boss infected.
I'm sure it will be patched out eventually, but I was disgusted by the fact that he kept doing it, even after I had said I found it stupid and cheap. I figured a PAer wouldn't go "Pub-style" and say "Oh well!" and keep doing it.
Please elaborate on this. My first instinct is to put the comment off as someone on your team being dumb and shooting at a hunter that happens to be near a witch, which then comes and smacks his face off.
And did they not just hide the second tank from view? Like run it back through the cornfield? If AI takes control of the tank, it will just sit there untill a survivor shoots it or gets close enough to trigger him.
My second explanation lead me to make this post. If they were to stoop so low as to exploit that, then if they found a way to exploit the witch, they sure as hell would have done that also. I would like Valve to implement some kind of shit list option for negative feedback on people, and be able to set your servers to ban anyone with a low enough rating. Then again, I guess the PA group can kind of do that so maybe I should join the chat.
It's possible to aggro the witch as infected and move her around.
Sure is. But it's NOT always easy to do. It's not a surefire every time thing.
And when I was doing it, I was doing it because the director was spawning your witches off to the sides of rooms and stuff instead of directly in the line that you had to walk through, so=P.
As for it being cheap, it's really no different than the "HAI LET'S STAND CLOSE AND HOPE THEY SHOOT" tactic. I mean, you guys were NEVER close to her. In other words, you heard her chasing me long before she ever got to you. On top of that, me actually pouncing you isn't intentional. I was trying to run her THROUGH you guys. There is a difference because as long as you don't shoot her, she will chase me. I proved this on BH 2 after you guys opened the emergency door.
Is it an exploit? I suppose. Makes sense to me that a hunter pouncing on a witch would piss her off more than some light or proximity to humans. It's not unbeatable, it's not a good strategy, and in a game where survivors win because of melee and LULZ LET'S STAND AGAINST THE WALL, I honestly have no problem moving the witch around, especially because I only do it when she's spawned way out of the way.
My FAVORITE part about the entire thing is that the first time I did it, your entire team thought somebody had hit her with a stray shot.
This strategy did teach me a legit alternative, though. Wait until someone is about to solo the witch and after the first shot or before they shoot, pounce them. Step 3: Profit.
Also, apparently L4D is serious business and in a versus game where we were getting our asses absolutely handed to us (even if points didn't truly reflect it, it was happening), God forbid someone try to have a little fun. If you're going to get THAT butthurt about it, then I won't do it any more...in PA games.
Also, by your example of the director commentary, witches should NEVER be spawned in areas where survivors can take an easy alternate route to avoid her because she's supposed to be something to sneak around. Where's the skill in avoiding a witch that gets shoved in a spot where survivors never go in the first place.
It's possible to aggro the witch as infected and move her around.
How is that done? As infected I have always just stood near the witch and hope to get shot at or as a smoker and try to pull someone near the witch. She's never cared about me otherwise. Just sits there and cries until something happens.
You have to be a hunter as far as I can tell. You have to claw her some and then repeatedly try to pounce on her. Eventually, she'll go crazy.
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thIs fOrUm dEsErvEs A bEttEr clAss Of OttEr, And I'm gOnnA gIvE It tO 'Em. yOU'll sEE, I'll shOw yA
It'd be entirely different if I had been actively TRYING to pounce them. I was running the witch through them. The correct answer in the situation is this: ignore me AND the witch.
Anyway, that's hardly the only reason we were leading in the first place.
I'm not defending aggroing the witch as a non exploitative tactic, but at the same time, it's really not worth crying about something that is clearly just someone screwing around for the sake of it, as illustrated by me aggroing her on BH 2 and not pouncing you guys but moving her into a doorway closer to where you had to go. You may say it wrecked your enjoyment of the game, but your little suicide pact at the finale after it broke wrecked my enjoyment of picking you guys off one by one=P.
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thIs fOrUm dEsErvEs A bEttEr clAss Of OttEr, And I'm gOnnA gIvE It tO 'Em. yOU'll sEE, I'll shOw yA
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DomhnallMinty D. Vision!ScotlandRegistered Userregular
edited December 2008
I know you could rile up a witch but actually moving her around? That's a complete dick move.
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So this game seems to have little hidden voice bits that pop in every once in a random while.
My favorite so far was Zoey, "I can't get over how fast they all are, it's not even fair. I'm calling zombie bullshit on that, you know? he ha... they're not allowed to be so fast"
When I heard that after fighting the horde before the elevator I smiled a little bit. At least they call themselves out on them being fast zombies instead of the classic slow. Didn't hear it every time I played so maybe it's a random trigger.
So this game seems to have little hidden voice bits that pop in every once in a random while.
My favorite so far was Zoey, "I can't get over how fast they all are, it's not even fair. I'm calling zombie bullshit on that, you know? he ha... they're not allowed to be so fast"
When I heard that after fighting the horde before the elevator I smiled a little bit. At least they call themselves out on them being fast zombies instead of the classic slow. Didn't hear it every time I played so maybe it's a random trigger.
There are certain areas that trigger random bits of dialogue. For example, another thing that could've been said in the elevator is Francis listing off a bunch of things he hates.
So this game seems to have little hidden voice bits that pop in every once in a random while.
My favorite so far was Zoey, "I can't get over how fast they all are, it's not even fair. I'm calling zombie bullshit on that, you know? he ha... they're not allowed to be so fast"
When I heard that after fighting the horde before the elevator I smiled a little bit. At least they call themselves out on them being fast zombies instead of the classic slow. Didn't hear it every time I played so maybe it's a random trigger.
There are certain areas that trigger random bits of dialogue. For example, another thing that could've been said in the elevator is Francis listing off a bunch of things he hates.
Also, in Dead Air, if you look for a second at the graffiti that says "God is dead," Zoey goes, "The Zombies killed God!!"
Hilarious
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SarksusATTACK AND DETHRONE GODRegistered Userregular
edited December 2008
I don't have a problem with infected moving the witch around. I think the witch is bordering on being completely useless in most cases, much less scary than she was when the demo was released. Anything that enhances the witch's effectiveness in the course of a round is okay with me as long as it's supported natively by the game.
So last night I was on the No Mercy finale on VS and I became the Tank. I chased someone playing as Zoey up onto one of the higher rooftops, she got caught in a corner and I batted her. She was heading for the skybox and I was proud of myself.
Then a God damned smoker tongue flips up from below the roof we're on, snags Zoey out of the air, and drags her safely onto the roof where her teammate frees her and all four bastards make it to the helicopter.
Is it an exploit? I suppose. Makes sense to me that a hunter pouncing on a witch would piss her off more than some light or proximity to humans. It's not unbeatable, it's not a good strategy, and in a game where survivors win because of melee and LULZ LET'S STAND AGAINST THE WALL, I honestly have no problem moving the witch around, especially because I only do it when she's spawned way out of the way.
So last night I was on the No Mercy finale on VS and I became the Tank. I chased someone playing as Zoey up onto one of the higher rooftops, she got caught in a corner and I batted her. She was heading for the skybox and I was proud of myself.
Then a God damned smoker tongue flips up from below the roof we're on, snags Zoey out of the air, and drags her safely onto the roof where her teammate frees her and all four bastards make it to the helicopter.
That Smoker was a BADASS.
Stupid as all hell, but a BADASS. The dumb Samuel L. Jackson version of a Smoker.
So last night I was on the No Mercy finale on VS and I became the Tank. I chased someone playing as Zoey up onto one of the higher rooftops, she got caught in a corner and I batted her. She was heading for the skybox and I was proud of myself.
Then a God damned smoker tongue flips up from below the roof we're on, snags Zoey out of the air, and drags her safely onto the roof where her teammate frees her and all four bastards make it to the helicopter.
If it makes you feel better, one time as Zoe, a Tank hit me as I was jumping and I flew far, far away.
The issue of moving the witch around isn't about game balance, it's about the goals being transparent for infected. Disturbing the witch is reinforced as a really bad idea and someone who has played through the campaign cooperatively is not going to have any idea you can move the witch, since none of the AI infected do it. There's also no tips about it.
So the end result from the survivors point of view is that someone used a secret, unintended technique to kill you with a witch you did not know existed, when the game has been telling you repeatedly so far to simply avoid the witch and you will be fine. This is definitely a gameplay problem.
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KupotheAvengerDestroyer of Cakeand other deserts.Registered Userregular
edited December 2008
You know what would make the witch frightening again? make her as deadly in all modes as she is in expert. THEN people will try to avoid her like the fucking plague.
Eh. It doesn't sound like a big deal to me, either. The witch can't be melee'd by survivors if she's moving around, and so whoever is leading her just needs to be smacked around, and then you stay the hell away from the witch. Playing against a team of survivors that are coordinated enough that they can counter all your attacks as infected is really boring.
And besides, I've never seen more than 2 witches a map. You need to sacrifice a player to move the witch. If you're losing because of this tactic, you probably wouldn't have won anyway.
And as for it not being intended, probably not. But man. The witch is almost always easy as hell to avoid. And if she isn't, alot of people know how to just walk and up blow her face up before she can do anything. The witch needs to be stronger, or more alert, or something. She's just a minor annoyance at the moment.
You know what would make the witch frightening again? make her as deadly in all modes as she is in expert. THEN people will try to avoid her like the fucking plague.
And also to a lot of (justified) bitching and moaning as you come around the corner, OH MY GOD WITCH dead. I've seen it happen to even really good players. One mistake shouldn't be a death sentence, it should be an opportunity for the Infected to capitalize on.
And there's all KINDS of un-hinted-at stuff in this game that you pick up through experience, so that's no reason for hating moving the witch. Like specific spots where you can smoker someone as their team is dropping down and that's it, that player is dead. You have to learn that one the hard way.
Hell, look at other games that are way more competative than L4D - like Smash Brothers. Wavedashing isn't in the manual anywhere, but you won't see anyone at a professional level NOT using it, and nobody's crying about it.
You know what would make the witch frightening again? make her as deadly in all modes as she is in expert. THEN people will try to avoid her like the fucking plague.
And also to a lot of (justified) bitching and moaning as you come around the corner, OH MY GOD WITCH dead. I've seen it happen to even really good players. One mistake shouldn't be a death sentence, it should be an opportunity for the Infected to capitalize on.
And there's all KINDS of un-hinted-at stuff in this game that you pick up through experience, so that's no reason for hating moving the witch. Like specific spots where you can smoker someone as their team is dropping down and that's it, that player is dead. You have to learn that one the hard way.
Hell, look at other games that are way more competative than L4D - like Smash Brothers. Wavedashing isn't in the manual anywhere, but you won't see anyone at a professional level NOT using it, and nobody's crying about it.
Adapt and survive, man.
How do they move the witch? I only ask because it sounds like something they need to put time into... which I assume means at least one infected isn't going to be able to attack if he's messing with the witch.
Haha I just found an old Left 4 Dead video on my hard drive. Louis looks like Little Jacob and Francis is a mix of Jack Black's character in Brutal Legend and a pallette swap of Bill.
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Just played the best game of Blood Harvest EVERZ
On the finale we killed the first tank and then we sat there for awhile waiting for the next one to spawn and we hear the music for the tank. After about 20 seconds the infected start chatting and saying oh I guess the survivors don't get a tank and we were all anticipating an attempt to lure us out. But then after about 5 minutes we'd realized we'd killed each of them once and that there was no tank. And thus no rescue. Just like a zombie movie where the rescue never makes it.
We eventually ran out and started killing stuff when unable to cope I went insane and shot Zoeyin the face.
Hence it being the best game ever
And to think we started off the first map with such an awesome massacre. I think that was the one where I did a 23 pounce and someone was a boomer and blew up next to a survivor, causing him to fall off a cliff. So many lulz.
The unfairness of witch positioning is lame, but infected aggroing her so she'll run around is cheating. When you see a witch running around you assume she's already aggroed on somebody, but then when you shoot her she's on you, and it deprives the survivors of the chance to compose themselves and kill her easily.
Eh. It doesn't sound like a big deal to me, either. The witch can't be melee'd by survivors if she's moving around, and so whoever is leading her just needs to be smacked around, and then you stay the hell away from the witch. Playing against a team of survivors that are coordinated enough that they can counter all your attacks as infected is really boring.
And besides, I've never seen more than 2 witches a map. You need to sacrifice a player to move the witch. If you're losing because of this tactic, you probably wouldn't have won anyway.
And as for it not being intended, probably not. But man. The witch is almost always easy as hell to avoid. And if she isn't, alot of people know how to just walk and up blow her face up before she can do anything. The witch needs to be stronger, or more alert, or something. She's just a minor annoyance at the moment.
Easy as hell to avoid until she spawns in front of the door to your safe house... that was a real pain in the ass.
The unfairness of witch positioning is lame, but infected aggroing her so she'll run around is cheating. When you see a witch running around you assume she's already aggroed on somebody, but then when you shoot her she's on you, and it deprives the survivors of the chance to compose themselves and kill her easily.
Man I hate the witch. She stole two of my kills today! First time it confused the heck out of me; I was all "Yeaaaah, pounced this fool so far from the rest of his team" and then she beat the crap out of me and killed him.
It's not cheating - nobody's entering any console commands or doing anything on a hacked server. This can be done on XBox AND Steam. It's well within the boundaries of the rules. Versus DOESN'T play like Campaign, and if you treat it as such, that's your folly. This is just another example.
But it seems like every time human players find a way to act smarter than computer-controlled infected, it gets called an exploit, even if it is completely within the game's normal "rules" or "mechanics." I personally feel this is silly scrub-talk. (I feel the same way about when people complain about the Survivors backing against a wall or a closet to survive--um hello, this is a legitimate tactic, Battle of Thermopylae, anyone?)
Obviously key-binding is outside the "game world," so that's not usually up for debate. But things like Tanks punching cars around and the Infected being able to damage each other with Friendly Fire (just like the the Survivors can to themselves, ie, fair is fair) are pretty much basic aspects of the game.
Sometimes we see computer-controlled infected fighting each other, so we know that they are capable of hurting and thus aggroing each other. And if you aggro the Witch, she just happens to be more dangerous than a common mob.
These are like, basic consequences of how the logic and physics the game world "work." Obviously we can put some concrete posts to keep the Tank from blocking the safehouse on No Mercy Lv.1, but do you think it's plausible to make the infected unable to damage each other at all? And if only specifically the Witch doesn't take FF, then how is that consistent enough with all other infected and survivors, all being able to FF each other?
Like I said, I'm NOT for "training the Witch," I just want to sort of think through some balancing decisions, etc.
Yeah, and the infected should logically be able to set off car alarms, break propane tanks and push around and hide tables with advanced weapons on them. And a giant log blocking a hallway shouldn't disappear. There are unrealistic limits on what the infected can do, and you just need to accept that. They exist for gameplay reasons.
And the talk about "scrubs" might make sense in a console game or a game that is never updated; where you have no choice but to accept it or quit the game. However L4D is still new and will very likely get more patches in the near future. Complaining about a weird, counterintuitive, exploitative tactic may very well get the game changed for the better.
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Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
But it seems like every time human players find a way to act smarter than computer-controlled infected, it gets called an exploit, even if it is completely within the game's normal "rules" or "mechanics." I personally feel this is silly scrub-talk. (I feel the same way about when people complain about the Survivors backing against a wall or a closet to survive--um hello, this is a legitimate tactic, Battle of Thermopylae, anyone?)
Too bad this is a game and not a real-world fight to the death. Survivors having the situational awareness to back against a wall for defense is, in terms of playing a fun game, not even in the same ballpark as a piece of the level enabling the survivors to become almost completely unassailable.
Every time someone brings this stuff up I find myself yet again not understanding why people hate fun. It's not fun to sit in a closet facing zero threat and it's not fun to try and assail four tightly-packed endlessly meleeing survivors in a small one-entrance room. It sucks.
Most people are calling for patches to fix this stuff for good reason. Survivors shouldn't get an easy run of things because they're too lazy to put up a real fight. Moving the witch is something I could see as debatable since the AID often ends up screwing over one team with the witch and giving the other team an easy ride. Hiding in closets to fight is just boring and lame.
In Campaign, AI Hunters have been known to piss off the witch. The small handful of times I've seen it, though, didn't end well for the Hunter. Once, she got up and killed the Hunter, but another survivor panicked and shot at her, pissing her off.
What happens after the witch kills the hunter and if everybody just stood still and turned off their lights? Does she go back to weeping, or does she run off like she just killed a survivor?
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Please elaborate on this. My first instinct is to put the comment off as someone on your team being dumb and shooting at a hunter that happens to be near a witch, which then comes and smacks his face off.
And did they not just hide the second tank from view? Like run it back through the cornfield? If AI takes control of the tank, it will just sit there untill a survivor shoots it or gets close enough to trigger him.
My second explanation lead me to make this post. If they were to stoop so low as to exploit that, then if they found a way to exploit the witch, they sure as hell would have done that also. I would like Valve to implement some kind of shit list option for negative feedback on people, and be able to set your servers to ban anyone with a low enough rating. Then again, I guess the PA group can kind of do that so maybe I should join the chat.
And if it's cool to move her for game balance, it's just cool to move her. It's a clever use of game mechanics.
But the other part of me says "But that's not being true to the developer's vision" and then the first part of me clubs that guy over the head and tells him to be quiet for a while.
It would be really nice if the game balanced on score - the team in the lead can expect more tanks, witches in the way, all that kind of thing, but it doesn't. I've been a team that's really behind in score that's gotten a tank in the first 30s inside a building with L1 weapons more times than I really care to count. So long, long ago I stopped playing to win, and just started playing to see the horrible, horrible end of the survivors each round.
Besides, isn't the witch just following the hunter? Like, he's the one she's pissed at. Kill him and she'll sit back down. Or ignore her while she chases him down.
Can you get them in VS matches? How does that work?
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It's possible to aggro the witch as infected and move her around.
How is that done? As infected I have always just stood near the witch and hope to get shot at or as a smoker and try to pull someone near the witch. She's never cared about me otherwise. Just sits there and cries until something happens.
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Sure is. But it's NOT always easy to do. It's not a surefire every time thing.
And when I was doing it, I was doing it because the director was spawning your witches off to the sides of rooms and stuff instead of directly in the line that you had to walk through, so=P.
As for it being cheap, it's really no different than the "HAI LET'S STAND CLOSE AND HOPE THEY SHOOT" tactic. I mean, you guys were NEVER close to her. In other words, you heard her chasing me long before she ever got to you. On top of that, me actually pouncing you isn't intentional. I was trying to run her THROUGH you guys. There is a difference because as long as you don't shoot her, she will chase me. I proved this on BH 2 after you guys opened the emergency door.
Is it an exploit? I suppose. Makes sense to me that a hunter pouncing on a witch would piss her off more than some light or proximity to humans. It's not unbeatable, it's not a good strategy, and in a game where survivors win because of melee and LULZ LET'S STAND AGAINST THE WALL, I honestly have no problem moving the witch around, especially because I only do it when she's spawned way out of the way.
My FAVORITE part about the entire thing is that the first time I did it, your entire team thought somebody had hit her with a stray shot.
This strategy did teach me a legit alternative, though. Wait until someone is about to solo the witch and after the first shot or before they shoot, pounce them. Step 3: Profit.
Also, apparently L4D is serious business and in a versus game where we were getting our asses absolutely handed to us (even if points didn't truly reflect it, it was happening), God forbid someone try to have a little fun. If you're going to get THAT butthurt about it, then I won't do it any more...in PA games.
Also, by your example of the director commentary, witches should NEVER be spawned in areas where survivors can take an easy alternate route to avoid her because she's supposed to be something to sneak around. Where's the skill in avoiding a witch that gets shoved in a spot where survivors never go in the first place.
You have to be a hunter as far as I can tell. You have to claw her some and then repeatedly try to pounce on her. Eventually, she'll go crazy.
I'm pretty sure the completion achievements can only be obtained in campaign.
Sometimes, though, you just don't get them for any apparent reason after fulfilling all the apparent criteria and have to resort to your own means.
if you train her over to the survivors and they ignore her but kill you, she will reset at a new position and probably aggro them.
Anyway, that's hardly the only reason we were leading in the first place.
I'm not defending aggroing the witch as a non exploitative tactic, but at the same time, it's really not worth crying about something that is clearly just someone screwing around for the sake of it, as illustrated by me aggroing her on BH 2 and not pouncing you guys but moving her into a doorway closer to where you had to go. You may say it wrecked your enjoyment of the game, but your little suicide pact at the finale after it broke wrecked my enjoyment of picking you guys off one by one=P.
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My favorite so far was Zoey, "I can't get over how fast they all are, it's not even fair. I'm calling zombie bullshit on that, you know? he ha... they're not allowed to be so fast"
When I heard that after fighting the horde before the elevator I smiled a little bit. At least they call themselves out on them being fast zombies instead of the classic slow. Didn't hear it every time I played so maybe it's a random trigger.
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There are certain areas that trigger random bits of dialogue. For example, another thing that could've been said in the elevator is Francis listing off a bunch of things he hates.
Steam: MightyPotatoKing
Also, in Dead Air, if you look for a second at the graffiti that says "God is dead," Zoey goes, "The Zombies killed God!!"
Hilarious
Then a God damned smoker tongue flips up from below the roof we're on, snags Zoey out of the air, and drags her safely onto the roof where her teammate frees her and all four bastards make it to the helicopter.
Steam: MightyPotatoKing
That Smoker was a BADASS.
Stupid as all hell, but a BADASS. The dumb Samuel L. Jackson version of a Smoker.
If it makes you feel better, one time as Zoe, a Tank hit me as I was jumping and I flew far, far away.
So the end result from the survivors point of view is that someone used a secret, unintended technique to kill you with a witch you did not know existed, when the game has been telling you repeatedly so far to simply avoid the witch and you will be fine. This is definitely a gameplay problem.
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And besides, I've never seen more than 2 witches a map. You need to sacrifice a player to move the witch. If you're losing because of this tactic, you probably wouldn't have won anyway.
And as for it not being intended, probably not. But man. The witch is almost always easy as hell to avoid. And if she isn't, alot of people know how to just walk and up blow her face up before she can do anything. The witch needs to be stronger, or more alert, or something. She's just a minor annoyance at the moment.
And also to a lot of (justified) bitching and moaning as you come around the corner, OH MY GOD WITCH dead. I've seen it happen to even really good players. One mistake shouldn't be a death sentence, it should be an opportunity for the Infected to capitalize on.
And there's all KINDS of un-hinted-at stuff in this game that you pick up through experience, so that's no reason for hating moving the witch. Like specific spots where you can smoker someone as their team is dropping down and that's it, that player is dead. You have to learn that one the hard way.
Hell, look at other games that are way more competative than L4D - like Smash Brothers. Wavedashing isn't in the manual anywhere, but you won't see anyone at a professional level NOT using it, and nobody's crying about it.
Adapt and survive, man.
How do they move the witch? I only ask because it sounds like something they need to put time into... which I assume means at least one infected isn't going to be able to attack if he's messing with the witch.
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And to think we started off the first map with such an awesome massacre. I think that was the one where I did a 23 pounce and someone was a boomer and blew up next to a survivor, causing him to fall off a cliff. So many lulz.
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Easy as hell to avoid until she spawns in front of the door to your safe house... that was a real pain in the ass.
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Man I hate the witch. She stole two of my kills today! First time it confused the heck out of me; I was all "Yeaaaah, pounced this fool so far from the rest of his team" and then she beat the crap out of me and killed him.
How close? Not sure. But if they're far and you find a witch and start hitting her, she's not going to do jackshit.
I don't mind it really. Witches aren't that big of a deal in vs. and most people don't do it.
Yeah, and the infected should logically be able to set off car alarms, break propane tanks and push around and hide tables with advanced weapons on them. And a giant log blocking a hallway shouldn't disappear. There are unrealistic limits on what the infected can do, and you just need to accept that. They exist for gameplay reasons.
And the talk about "scrubs" might make sense in a console game or a game that is never updated; where you have no choice but to accept it or quit the game. However L4D is still new and will very likely get more patches in the near future. Complaining about a weird, counterintuitive, exploitative tactic may very well get the game changed for the better.
Too bad this is a game and not a real-world fight to the death. Survivors having the situational awareness to back against a wall for defense is, in terms of playing a fun game, not even in the same ballpark as a piece of the level enabling the survivors to become almost completely unassailable.
Every time someone brings this stuff up I find myself yet again not understanding why people hate fun. It's not fun to sit in a closet facing zero threat and it's not fun to try and assail four tightly-packed endlessly meleeing survivors in a small one-entrance room. It sucks.
Most people are calling for patches to fix this stuff for good reason. Survivors shouldn't get an easy run of things because they're too lazy to put up a real fight. Moving the witch is something I could see as debatable since the AID often ends up screwing over one team with the witch and giving the other team an easy ride. Hiding in closets to fight is just boring and lame.
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