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Cyberpunk 2077 - It Can't Get Darker Than Night City, Right?

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Posts

  • BigityBigity Lubbock, TXRegistered User regular
    Lilnoobs wrote: »
    I would argue it's part of a larger labor movement across the country (at least in the US), with teacher strikes, adjunct unions, uber/lyft strikes. It's time to swing that pendulum hard back to worker rights, and game dev is certainly part of that.

    Thankfully, with this economy, it is a good time for that. Employers want to hold on to good employees.

    76561198017303226.png
  • DarkPrimusDarkPrimus Registered User regular
    Bigity wrote: »
    Lilnoobs wrote: »
    I would argue it's part of a larger labor movement across the country (at least in the US), with teacher strikes, adjunct unions, uber/lyft strikes. It's time to swing that pendulum hard back to worker rights, and game dev is certainly part of that.

    Thankfully, with this economy, it is a good time for that. Employers want to hold on to good employees.

    Employers tend to define "good" employees as "employees who will smile and thank me for what scraps we give them, and not ask for more."

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  • schussschuss Registered User regular
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    Bigity wrote: »
    Lilnoobs wrote: »
    I would argue it's part of a larger labor movement across the country (at least in the US), with teacher strikes, adjunct unions, uber/lyft strikes. It's time to swing that pendulum hard back to worker rights, and game dev is certainly part of that.

    Thankfully, with this economy, it is a good time for that. Employers want to hold on to good employees.

    Employers tend to define "good" employees as "employees who will smile and thank me for what scraps we give them, and not ask for more."

    Ehhhh, talented software devs can basically go wherever these days. There's a serious shortage in many spots in the US. Same for data folks.
    There's plenty of shitty companies, but there's a lot improving benefits/work-life balance to net the best people as above a certain pay band that's what people start differentiating on.

    BigityHeirElvenshaeGeneral_Armchair
  • DarkPrimusDarkPrimus Registered User regular
    edited May 22
    schuss wrote: »
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    Bigity wrote: »
    Lilnoobs wrote: »
    I would argue it's part of a larger labor movement across the country (at least in the US), with teacher strikes, adjunct unions, uber/lyft strikes. It's time to swing that pendulum hard back to worker rights, and game dev is certainly part of that.

    Thankfully, with this economy, it is a good time for that. Employers want to hold on to good employees.

    Employers tend to define "good" employees as "employees who will smile and thank me for what scraps we give them, and not ask for more."

    Ehhhh, talented software devs can basically go wherever these days. There's a serious shortage in many spots in the US. Same for data folks.
    There's plenty of shitty companies, but there's a lot improving benefits/work-life balance to net the best people as above a certain pay band that's what people start differentiating on.

    Yeah but the folks crunching the numbers don't care about actual skill, they just care about how many hours they can get out of someone for as little as possible.

    Burnout has been a problem in games for decades, but it hasn't really affected those at the top because there's always fresh new faces willing to destroy themselves for low pay because they're passionate about making games.

    DarkPrimus on
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  • kaidkaid Registered User regular
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    schuss wrote: »
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    Bigity wrote: »
    Lilnoobs wrote: »
    I would argue it's part of a larger labor movement across the country (at least in the US), with teacher strikes, adjunct unions, uber/lyft strikes. It's time to swing that pendulum hard back to worker rights, and game dev is certainly part of that.

    Thankfully, with this economy, it is a good time for that. Employers want to hold on to good employees.

    Employers tend to define "good" employees as "employees who will smile and thank me for what scraps we give them, and not ask for more."

    Ehhhh, talented software devs can basically go wherever these days. There's a serious shortage in many spots in the US. Same for data folks.
    There's plenty of shitty companies, but there's a lot improving benefits/work-life balance to net the best people as above a certain pay band that's what people start differentiating on.

    Yeah but the folks crunching the numbers don't care about actual skill, they just care about how many hours they can get out of someone for as little as possible.

    Burnout has been a problem in games for decades, but it hasn't really affected those at the top because there's always fresh new faces willing to destroy themselves for low pay because they're passionate about making games.

    Also video game companies workforce tends to be young staffed with people who really don't know what a "normal" programing environment should be like so its a lot easier to just hand wave everything as "totally normal crunch time".

    DonnictonMegaMekBloodySloth
  • The_SpaniardThe_Spaniard Registered User regular
    *Drums fingers waiting on response from E3 appointment request email to CD Projekt Red* It's been a week. :bigfrown:

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  • DarkewolfeDarkewolfe Registered User regular
    schuss wrote: »
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    Bigity wrote: »
    Lilnoobs wrote: »
    I would argue it's part of a larger labor movement across the country (at least in the US), with teacher strikes, adjunct unions, uber/lyft strikes. It's time to swing that pendulum hard back to worker rights, and game dev is certainly part of that.

    Thankfully, with this economy, it is a good time for that. Employers want to hold on to good employees.

    Employers tend to define "good" employees as "employees who will smile and thank me for what scraps we give them, and not ask for more."

    Ehhhh, talented software devs can basically go wherever these days. There's a serious shortage in many spots in the US. Same for data folks.
    There's plenty of shitty companies, but there's a lot improving benefits/work-life balance to net the best people as above a certain pay band that's what people start differentiating on.

    This is true for in demand dev skills. But at the trends we've seen, there will always be developers willing to make video games at almost any salary. The change we need is for fewer skilled folks to head to games for a sustained amount of time to correct the labor demand/supply.

    What is this I don't even.
  • BigityBigity Lubbock, TXRegistered User regular
    edited May 23
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    Bigity wrote: »
    Lilnoobs wrote: »
    I would argue it's part of a larger labor movement across the country (at least in the US), with teacher strikes, adjunct unions, uber/lyft strikes. It's time to swing that pendulum hard back to worker rights, and game dev is certainly part of that.

    Thankfully, with this economy, it is a good time for that. Employers want to hold on to good employees.

    Employers tend to define "good" employees as "employees who will smile and thank me for what scraps we give them, and not ask for more."

    Maybe some, not all.

    EDIT: Well, not 'maybe' some

    Bigity on
    76561198017303226.png
  • schussschuss Registered User regular
    Darkewolfe wrote: »
    schuss wrote: »
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    Bigity wrote: »
    Lilnoobs wrote: »
    I would argue it's part of a larger labor movement across the country (at least in the US), with teacher strikes, adjunct unions, uber/lyft strikes. It's time to swing that pendulum hard back to worker rights, and game dev is certainly part of that.

    Thankfully, with this economy, it is a good time for that. Employers want to hold on to good employees.

    Employers tend to define "good" employees as "employees who will smile and thank me for what scraps we give them, and not ask for more."

    Ehhhh, talented software devs can basically go wherever these days. There's a serious shortage in many spots in the US. Same for data folks.
    There's plenty of shitty companies, but there's a lot improving benefits/work-life balance to net the best people as above a certain pay band that's what people start differentiating on.

    This is true for in demand dev skills. But at the trends we've seen, there will always be developers willing to make video games at almost any salary. The change we need is for fewer skilled folks to head to games for a sustained amount of time to correct the labor demand/supply.

    Well, given the popularity and profit of longer lived games with more frequent changes like Fortnite and LoL, there will be more call for modern, flexible architecture. That architecture usually means planning features and modules well and effectively using middleware and modern infrastructure to deliver. These are largely incompatible with crunch, so just as Japanese developers started losing out to the more efficient game dev practices elsewhere, so too will large companies.
    All you have to do is read the Anthem stuff to see how quickly cash can be burned on bad practice with no sustainable success in sight.
    It will take a while, but it will happen.

    PhillishereFencingsax
  • Smaug6Smaug6 Registered User regular
    Dixon wrote: »
    Yeah I have to say crunch time is pretty much in any industry with development. Maybe things like financial institutions don’t have it as severe as the red tape on releases is strict enough it actually prevents crunch from being effective.

    I don’t work in gaming but I’ve had strings of days where I start at 9-10 am and work till 5am the following morning and then back at work for 9-10am. Sometimes for 3-4 days in a row. I’m not even a developer. It definitely takes a toll, and I’m kinda useless for the days after that crunch as my brain is mush

    Every investment deal has a horrible crunch period. Its actually built into those deals.

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  • lwt1973lwt1973 King of Thieves SyndicationRegistered User regular
    Actual Cyberpunk news:
    "To answer many questions about the demo and whether or not @CyberpunkGame will be playable at E3 - we are going to be hosting gameplay presentations (game played by us) in that cinema."

    So who knows if it'll be released this year or if this was wrong:
    Territory Studio - who worked on the logo for the game - said Cyberpunk 2077 has a “2019 release” in a now deleted post (via Reddit).

    Describing Cyberpunk 2077, the post said: “An ambitious open-world game, Territory came on board Cyberpunk 2077 to support brand and marketing with a logo ident and graphics package.

    “Working closely with CD Projekt, we referenced a retro punk aesthetic that alludes to the attitude and energy of the game.

    “Unveiled at E3 2018, we look forward to a 2019 release.”

    "He's sulking in his tent like Achilles! It's the Iliad?...from Homer?! READ A BOOK!!" -Handy
  • JazzJazz UKRegistered User regular
    That would be nice. Unlikely as it seems.

    You know, I'm not super find of games being announced and shown so far ahead of launch. I remember when Fallout 4 was unveiled. It was out six months later. That was cool. (Even if it wasn't the best game ever and stupid Pip-Boys and whatnot. Still.)

    FencingsaxUnlucky
  • QuiotuQuiotu Registered User regular
    Jazz wrote: »
    That would be nice. Unlikely as it seems.

    You know, I'm not super find of games being announced and shown so far ahead of launch. I remember when Fallout 4 was unveiled. It was out six months later. That was cool. (Even if it wasn't the best game ever and stupid Pip-Boys and whatnot. Still.)

    I only get it from CDPR because after Witcher 3, people were curious on a fanatic level what they were working on next. Also I think the company as a whole was jazzed they got to make a game with Mike Pondsmith. If they waited until 6 months from release, CDPR would be silent for years with nothing to show, which might be just as bad.

    And I've always been okay with an early 2020 release. Give them some extra time to avoid heavy crunch, and the year is a significant one for Cyberpunk.

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    JazzBigityMrVyngaard
  • klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    I'm finally getting into Witcher 3, so I might be done with it by the time this comes out. Probably not, though.

    Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
  • HappylilElfHappylilElf Registered User regular
    klemming wrote: »
    I'm finally getting into Witcher 3, so I might be done with it by the time this comes out. Probably not, though.

    I'm still trying to get through my replay of Witcher so I can start Witcher 2 and then play through Wicther 3 :P

    Elvenshae
  • klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    I gave up on both of those and just viewed the cliff notes recaps online, saving myself an estimated 200+ hours.

    Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
    Massena
  • Sir CarcassSir Carcass I have been shown the end of my world Round Rock, TXRegistered User regular
    I played through the Witcher 3 without having ever finished 1 or 2, and while there are some things you'll be left wondering about, for the most part the game tells you what you need to know. I'd still recommend playing them if you have the desire as I think some of the stuff that happens in 3 will be more meaningful.

    Fencingsax
  • NyysjanNyysjan FinlandRegistered User regular
    I hope they take good and long to make the game with no crunch and plenty of QA time.

    3clipseMassenaTynnanHappylilElfElvenshaeoverride367
  • Just_Bri_ThanksJust_Bri_Thanks Seething with rage from a handbasket.Registered User, ClubPA regular
    There will always be some kind of crunch in software development. In software development, features are often bottlenecked behind features programmed by other teams. Sometimes you need to tell your programmers to shit or get off the pot so that team B can get to work.

    Some days I just want to smack people with a rolled up newspaper. Or a phone book.
    A folding chair is looking like an attractive option right now too...
  • 3clipse3clipse I will build a labyrinth to house the cheese Registered User regular
    I'm sure there will always be crunch, but crunch also doesn't work because forcing people to work longer hours just reduces their total output/time worked and causes an enormous decrease in product quality, leading to an overall time loss as now resources must be diverted to fix or redo the sub-par work.

    The 40 hour workweek isn't even effective - you'll only get about 30 productive hours out of the average person.

    I mean, I'd take Nick Offerman's spikey cat dick willingly
  • schussschuss Registered User regular
    "there has to be crunch".
    Nah. Lots of major software makers do it without crunch.

    MegaMek3clipsePolaritie
  • manwiththemachinegunmanwiththemachinegun METAL GEAR?! Registered User regular
    Just retitle this thread the Captain Crunch thread already

    Sir CarcassXeddicusNotoriusBENEspantaPajaroNightslyroverride367Mr Ray
  • NotoriusBENNotoriusBEN Registered User regular
    edited May 30


    So whats new with, cyberpunk? Or are we being meta and complaining about megacorps acting like poopsocks?

    NotoriusBEN on
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  • DoublySymmetricDoublySymmetric Registered User regular
    Obligatory Office Space:

    "I see you've been missing a lot of work."

    "I wouldn't say I've been missing it, Bob!"

    And a reminder, please put cover sheets on all your TPS reports.

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  • manwiththemachinegunmanwiththemachinegun METAL GEAR?! Registered User regular
    edited May 30


    So whats new with, cyberpunk? Or are we being meta and complaining about megacorps acting like poopsocks?

    I would be entirely happy with a conversation about Cyberpunk in general. I just finished Neuromancer and, along with Ghost In the Shell, I get why the Matrix just happened to appear.

    As far as complaining about Megacorps, I direct you to the D&D forum.

    Also E3 is around the corner, and so we will get new information.

    manwiththemachinegun on
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  • schussschuss Registered User regular
    I feel I need more dark neon in the rain in my life.
    Sidenote: the Spotify playlist of retrowave/outrun is fantastic for cyberpunk moods

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  • EspantaPajaroEspantaPajaro Registered User regular
    schuss wrote: »
    I feel I need more dark neon in the rain in my life.
    Sidenote: the Spotify playlist of retrowave/outrun is fantastic for cyberpunk moods

    I like to listen to it when I think about shadowrun and get salty that if it ever gets a big budget game it will be accused of stealing from this and people will hate that it is a mixture of magic/ technology .

  • AxenAxen My avatar is Excalibur. Yes, the sword.Registered User regular
    edited May 30
    schuss wrote: »
    I feel I need more dark neon in the rain in my life.
    Sidenote: the Spotify playlist of retrowave/outrun is fantastic for cyberpunk moods

    I like to listen to it when I think about shadowrun and get salty that if it ever gets a big budget game it will be accused of stealing from this and people will hate that it is a mixture of magic/ technology .

    I know Gibson had an opinion or two on it, "When I see things like Shadowrun, the only negative thing I feel about it is that initial extreme revulsion at seeing my literary DNA mixed with elves."

    edit- I love me some Shadowrun, but I do know more than a few people who hate the idea of mixing magic and Cyberpunk. Personally I'm a sucker for the Magic + [insert setting here] formula.

    Axen on
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  • schussschuss Registered User regular
    Shadowrun is neat as it's a world where neither magic nor technology have primacy, but pure cyberpunk is a-ok with me. My favorite part of Gibson was when the AIs got loose and everyone was worried, but they're like "f off and leave us alone".

    NotoriusBENAxenElvenshaeMrVyngaard
  • JazzJazz UKRegistered User regular
    I wish the Shadowrun games were still available for Android.

  • manwiththemachinegunmanwiththemachinegun METAL GEAR?! Registered User regular
    Also Ruiner is a very fun Hotline Miami styled action game with a very, very good OST.

    QanamilFawst
  • Sir CarcassSir Carcass I have been shown the end of my world Round Rock, TXRegistered User regular
    Axen wrote: »
    schuss wrote: »
    I feel I need more dark neon in the rain in my life.
    Sidenote: the Spotify playlist of retrowave/outrun is fantastic for cyberpunk moods

    I like to listen to it when I think about shadowrun and get salty that if it ever gets a big budget game it will be accused of stealing from this and people will hate that it is a mixture of magic/ technology .

    I know Gibson had an opinion or two on it, "When I see things like Shadowrun, the only negative thing I feel about it is that initial extreme revulsion at seeing my literary DNA mixed with elves."

    edit- I love me some Shadowrun, but I do know more than a few people who hate the idea of mixing magic and Cyberpunk. Personally I'm a sucker for the Magic + [insert setting here] formula.

    I remember the first time I read Neuromancer, after having been a Shadowrun fan for many years. The influence on FASA was.... noticeable. But yeah, I also really like the magic parts of Shadowrun and think it really helps to make it unique.

    BigityNightslyrMrVyngaard
  • MassenaMassena Registered User regular
    Talk about cyberpunk music is going to make me fire up a bunch of Magic Sword today, I just know it.

  • SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    edited May 31
    Also Ruiner is a very fun Hotline Miami styled action game with a very, very good OST.


    I've seen this on sale on the Xbox store a half-dozen times (it's a Play Anywhere title on top of that). Reviews aren't very good for it though. :confused:

    Synthesis on
    Orca wrote: »
    Synthesis wrote:
    Isn't "Your sarcasm makes me wet," the highest compliment an Abh can pay a human?

    Only if said Abh is a member of the nobility.
  • NotoriusBENNotoriusBEN Registered User regular
    edited May 31


    Neon over metal over greasepen fonts, mmmmm.

    NotoriusBEN on
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  • El FantasticoEl Fantastico Toronto, ONRegistered User regular
    All the cyberpunk stuff makes me wish Moonbeam City didn't get cancelled so early. MBC was more 80s than cyberpunk, but if you just put a gritty filter on everything and set it in Neo-Tokyo or something, it'd have been perfect.

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  • SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    I really miss American City Hunter with hornier characters and an unshakable commitment to its aesthetic.

    LASER MINING!

    Orca wrote: »
    Synthesis wrote:
    Isn't "Your sarcasm makes me wet," the highest compliment an Abh can pay a human?

    Only if said Abh is a member of the nobility.
  • manwiththemachinegunmanwiththemachinegun METAL GEAR?! Registered User regular
    Synthesis wrote: »
    Also Ruiner is a very fun Hotline Miami styled action game with a very, very good OST.


    I've seen this on sale on the Xbox store a half-dozen times (it's a Play Anywhere title on top of that). Reviews aren't very good for it though. :confused:

    They have no idea what they're talking about. It's good, fun and flashy.

  • TychoCelchuuuTychoCelchuuu PIGEON IndiaRegistered User regular
    Unquestionably the best cyberpunk music in my mind is the NeoTokyo soundtrack:

    http://0edit.com.au/neotokyo/

    A close second place belongs to the soundtracks for Frozen Synapse and its expansion + sequel:

    https://nervoustestpilot.co.uk/album/frozen-synapse-original-soundtrack

    DarmakMegaMekElvenshaeNSDFRand
  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    So is Moonbeam City basically Archer, but set in Robocop world?

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