minor incidentexpert in a dying fieldnjRegistered Userregular
Personally, if you're against this kind of shot continuing, and you're in a position of power or stature in a community, then yes, I agree that it is absolutely your moral obligation to speak out about it and lend support. I mentioned in another comment that groups like these gaters only need s little silence to assume complicity and that just empowers their assholery even more.
Ah, it stinks, it sucks, it's anthropologically unjust
Personally, if you're against this kind of shot continuing, and you're in a position of power or stature in a community, then yes, I agree that it is absolutely your moral obligation to speak out about it and lend support. I mentioned in another comment that groups like these gaters only need s little silence to assume complicity and that just empowers their assholery even more.
I don't know if that's how the psychology works. It's a good debate for D&D: is it more effective to silence and marginalize or publicize and condemn? But the assumption that you can know and predict people whose actions and motives are so far removed from what we expect from normal human beings is faulty. Any of us that might have been experts on the subject have probably already been banned from this forum.
Marty: The future, it's where you're going? Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
I saw a blog post earlier today about how GamerGate people are slowly losing their "heroes", i.e. people in the entertainment biz who have spoken out against harassment and stuff, and how maybe it's a bad sign when everyone you like is denouncing your "cause".
One of the things I saw that fucking blew my mind was that apparently some GG people actually thought that Jeff's silence meant he was pro-GG. I'm not sure why. Maybe it was a weird game of Chinese Telephone, where since Jeff was fired due to what could be perceived as corruption, he must also hate corruption, then blah blah GAMERGATE
It's bonkers that Jeff had to come out and make any sort of statement about this when it's clear as shit what Jeff is into and not into. He is into wrestling. He is not into dickheads.
I saw a blog post earlier today about how GamerGate people are slowly losing their "heroes", i.e. people in the entertainment biz who have spoken out against harassment and stuff, and how maybe it's a bad sign when everyone you like is denouncing your "cause".
One of the things I saw that fucking blew my mind was that apparently some GG people actually thought that Jeff's silence meant he was pro-GG. I'm not sure why. Maybe it was a weird game of Chinese Telephone, where since Jeff was fired due to what could be perceived as corruption, he must also hate corruption, then blah blah GAMERGATE
It's bonkers that Jeff had to come out and make any sort of statement about this when it's clear as shit what Jeff is into and not into. He is into wrestling. He is not into dickheads.
Because silence is complicity at best, approval at worst. If you don't like what is happening, you speak out. The status quo being what it is, staying silent is not a moral stand.
However, I still think referring to and treating GamerGate as "The status quo" is dumb.
Well, it kind of is
there's a not insignificant part of GG that was harassing the same women before this all went down, GG just gave them a megaphone and the pretense of legitimacy
However, I still think referring to and treating GamerGate as "The status quo" is dumb.
Well, it kind of is
there's a not insignificant part of GG that was harassing the same women before this all went down, GG just gave them a megaphone and the pretense of legitimacy
That there are terrible people who play video games is the status quo
That they are united behind a hashtag and pretending to be campaigning for ethics in journalism absolutely is.
And again, "Feminism should be a bigger issue in the potentially progressive by virtue of being the youngest art form of gaming" is a different thing than "People should be yelling at GamerGate more"
Marty: The future, it's where you're going? Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
then it's a good thing i linked to the thread in the thread people were off-topically discussing gamergate, so that they could come to that thread over the next day, see that a thread had been created for the subject, and go visit that thread
Marty: The future, it's where you're going? Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
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AegeriTiny wee bacteriumsPlateau of LengRegistered Userregular
Personally, if you're against this kind of shot continuing, and you're in a position of power or stature in a community, then yes, I agree that it is absolutely your moral obligation to speak out about it and lend support. I mentioned in another comment that groups like these gaters only need s little silence to assume complicity and that just empowers their assholery even more.
I think it was utterly dreadful that Giantbomb, Polygon and many other sites have waited almost two months before doing anything significant to condemn it on their front pages. At the same time, this is a position I can have as a random guy on an internet forum who isn't at the head of a large gaming site and therefore under serious threat of harassment/attacks. Ben Kuchera on his twitter basically admitted that one of the reasons they held off so long (and in their editorial) was because they feared for their families and what effect it could have on them. I mention this because Patrick brought up a very similar point and how people have targeted his wife in the past when they disagreed.
I don't think that excuses silence, because many women involved in this never even got that option in the first place and always had to deal with it from the start, but it isn't solely a case of pure neglect, cowardice or being morally bankrupt to not immediately show support.
Personally, if you're against this kind of shot continuing, and you're in a position of power or stature in a community, then yes, I agree that it is absolutely your moral obligation to speak out about it and lend support. I mentioned in another comment that groups like these gaters only need s little silence to assume complicity and that just empowers their assholery even more.
I think it was utterly dreadful that Giantbomb, Polygon and many other sites have waited almost two months before doing anything significant to condemn it on their front pages. At the same time, this is a position I can have as a random guy on an internet forum who isn't at the head of a large gaming site and therefore under serious threat of harassment/attacks. Ben Kuchera on his twitter basically admitted that one of the reasons they held off so long (and in their editorial) was because they feared for their families and what effect it could have on them. I mention this because Patrick brought up a very similar point and how people have targeted his wife in the past when they disagreed.
I don't think that excuses silence, because many women involved in this never even got that option in the first place and always had to deal with it from the start, but it isn't solely a case of pure neglect, cowardice or being morally bankrupt to not immediately show support.
Personally, if you're against this kind of shot continuing, and you're in a position of power or stature in a community, then yes, I agree that it is absolutely your moral obligation to speak out about it and lend support. I mentioned in another comment that groups like these gaters only need s little silence to assume complicity and that just empowers their assholery even more.
I think it was utterly dreadful that Giantbomb, Polygon and many other sites have waited almost two months before doing anything significant to condemn it on their front pages. At the same time, this is a position I can have as a random guy on an internet forum who isn't at the head of a large gaming site and therefore under serious threat of harassment/attacks. Ben Kuchera on his twitter basically admitted that one of the reasons they held off so long (and in their editorial) was because they feared for their families and what effect it could have on them. I mention this because Patrick brought up a very similar point and how people have targeted his wife in the past when they disagreed.
I don't think that excuses silence, because many women involved in this never even got that option in the first place and always had to deal with it from the start, but it isn't solely a case of pure neglect, cowardice or being morally bankrupt to not immediately show support.
Holy shit that 4chan screenshot.
Protip: Don't go to these places and read how they think about this.
They genuinely thought they were in Giantbombs good books for "Defending" them against the sinister SJWs (in reference to the drama that arose when they hired two new male staff members).
Personally, if you're against this kind of shot continuing, and you're in a position of power or stature in a community, then yes, I agree that it is absolutely your moral obligation to speak out about it and lend support. I mentioned in another comment that groups like these gaters only need s little silence to assume complicity and that just empowers their assholery even more.
I think it was utterly dreadful that Giantbomb, Polygon and many other sites have waited almost two months before doing anything significant to condemn it on their front pages. At the same time, this is a position I can have as a random guy on an internet forum who isn't at the head of a large gaming site and therefore under serious threat of harassment/attacks. Ben Kuchera on his twitter basically admitted that one of the reasons they held off so long (and in their editorial) was because they feared for their families and what effect it could have on them. I mention this because Patrick brought up a very similar point and how people have targeted his wife in the past when they disagreed.
I don't think that excuses silence, because many women involved in this never even got that option in the first place and always had to deal with it from the start, but it isn't solely a case of pure neglect, cowardice or being morally bankrupt to not immediately show support.
Holy shit that 4chan screenshot.
Protip: Don't go to these places and read how they think about this.
They genuinely thought they were in Giantbombs good books for "Defending" them against the sinister SJWs (in reference to the drama that arose when they hired two new male staff members).
But the thing is, Jeff wasn't silent. The last big letter he wrote was denouncing the very thing these asshats think he should love them for: people thinking they speak for GB and "defending" the site from unspeakable lady horrors.
But the thing is, Jeff wasn't silent. The last big letter he wrote was denouncing the very thing these asshats think he should love them for: people thinking they speak for GB and "defending" the site from unspeakable lady horrors.
That was before Gamersgate and was specifically about a separate issue in a way that this one wasn't particularly specific enough.
I know, but it was stated above that the reason these people think they had Jeff's support was because they "defended" GB when they hired Dan and Jaso and that Jeff was silent. What I'm saying is that Jeff was never silent about the bullshit re: the new hires, so these people are incredibly deluded and misguided.
I am not going to try and rationalize assholes like WhateverChan
I (unlike many) really like Marie but Jeff's confusion over her was great.
I would pay real-ass money beyond a sub for Jeff and Dan playing through P4G --- recollection trip for Jeff, wild bouts of trying new things for Dan. Persona 4 Goldan. I know it can't happen though because everyone's too busy. :(
3DS: 2466-2307-8384 PSN: bssteph Steam:bsstephanTwitch:bsstephan Tabletop:13th Age (mm-mmm), D&D 4e Occasional words about games:my site
GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
Things are starting to get gross from both sides now. Sam Bidwell of Gawker apparently advocated that we should bring bullying back and that "nerds should get bopped". *sighs* Yes, great way to respond to the GG crowd, with neanderthal threats. Definitely the way to stop women being oppressed is to oppress another class of people. Very progressive.
Things are starting to get gross from both sides now. Sam Bidwell of Gawker apparently advocated that we should bring bullying back and that "nerds should get bopped". *sighs* Yes, great way to respond to the GG crowd, with neanderthal threats. Definitely the way to stop women being oppressed is to oppress another class of people. Very progressive.
This just in: there are lots of idiots on the internet. News at 11.
But the thing is, Jeff wasn't silent. The last big letter he wrote was denouncing the very thing these asshats think he should love them for: people thinking they speak for GB and "defending" the site from unspeakable lady horrors.
wrt Giantbomb
...and they chose to be silent about the harassment and threats for two months.
Letting people go on thinking/believing/pretending for two months.
As someone who listens to every episode of the podcast, but only occasionally reads articles on the site, or watch their videos ... I wasn't aware of the letter from the editor about the hiring.
And I didn't really think I had too much reason to think that they were keeping quite for reasons other than ... they didn't think it was a big enough deal to warrant the time to talk about it. (Which I guess is partially true, but for (bad) reasons.)
Sounds like part of they crew is coming around to thinking keeping silent wasn't the right approach.
So, I'm unable to log on to the site. Never really bothered, since I was unable to subscribe any way, but thought I might give it a go.
Any tips for when the site says "Wrong password or username"?
User name is you username, and not your mail address or favorite pet, right?
How long do you usually have to wait after setting a new passwd (and being able to log on your mobile *sigh*)?
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GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
Things are starting to get gross from both sides now. Sam Bidwell of Gawker apparently advocated that we should bring bullying back and that "nerds should get bopped". *sighs* Yes, great way to respond to the GG crowd, with neanderthal threats. Definitely the way to stop women being oppressed is to oppress another class of people. Very progressive.
This just in: there are lots of idiots on the internet. News at 11.
Hand waving Bidwell's comments away is not real great. We scream bloody murder when the GG crowd hand wave away death threats and personal attacks as "assholes on the internet", we can't then hand wave away the idiots on our side of the debate. Sam Bidwell deserves to be called out for saying something gross and abusing his platform to advocate a gross thing.
Attacking vitriol with vitriol cheapens what we're trying to accomplish, and only makes things worse. Sinking to their level and all that, rabble rabble.
Things are starting to get gross from both sides now. Sam Bidwell of Gawker apparently advocated that we should bring bullying back and that "nerds should get bopped". *sighs* Yes, great way to respond to the GG crowd, with neanderthal threats. Definitely the way to stop women being oppressed is to oppress another class of people. Very progressive.
This just in: there are lots of idiots on the internet. News at 11.
Hand waving Bidwell's comments away is not real great. We scream bloody murder when the GG crowd hand wave away death threats and personal attacks as "assholes on the internet", we can't then hand wave away the idiots on our side of the debate. Sam Bidwell deserves to be called out for saying something gross and abusing his platform to advocate a gross thing.
Attacking vitriol with vitriol cheapens what we're trying to accomplish, and only makes things worse. Sinking to their level and all that, rabble rabble.
So you think he's dumb for telling people to start bulling the bullies ... Yeah, that probably won't solve anything.
Not necessarily giving people a taste of their own medicine is always the wrong answer, but that sociopaths and trolls probably don't care what you spend you time doing on different social media.
Or are you surprised that he doesn't think nerds deserve special protection?
Really not sure what your point is.
Part of the problem with addressing a bunch of leaderless trolls is that they can easily get you to spend more time defending what ever you believe in than they have to do coming up with new accusations of false flags, double standards, etc.
But either way, you can prolly take it out of this thread.
Also yes, this whole thing with calling upon a dead man who can't answer back regarding anything is p gross. I've seen this sentiment thrown around a lot on....the internet; bullshit re: Ryan about Patrick's continued employment, the "tone" of the site, etc.
But the best thing is knowing that Ryan most certainly would not have been for GG. He would be blocking fools, and releasing gag t-shirts, and it'd be great. Giant Bomb probably would have said something sooner, but that's not for me to say.
Posts
I don't know if that's how the psychology works. It's a good debate for D&D: is it more effective to silence and marginalize or publicize and condemn? But the assumption that you can know and predict people whose actions and motives are so far removed from what we expect from normal human beings is faulty. Any of us that might have been experts on the subject have probably already been banned from this forum.
Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
One of the things I saw that fucking blew my mind was that apparently some GG people actually thought that Jeff's silence meant he was pro-GG. I'm not sure why. Maybe it was a weird game of Chinese Telephone, where since Jeff was fired due to what could be perceived as corruption, he must also hate corruption, then blah blah GAMERGATE
It's bonkers that Jeff had to come out and make any sort of statement about this when it's clear as shit what Jeff is into and not into. He is into wrestling. He is not into dickheads.
3DS Friend Code: 2165-6448-8348 www.Twitch.TV/cooljammer00
Battle.Net: JohnDarc#1203 Origin/UPlay: CoolJammer00
Because silence is complicity at best, approval at worst. If you don't like what is happening, you speak out. The status quo being what it is, staying silent is not a moral stand.
But yeah, I will admit that in the specific situation where if GG was using Jeff as a hero of their cause then silence would equal complicity.
However, I still think referring to and treating GamerGate as "The status quo" is dumb.
Mind giving us a link?
Well, it kind of is
there's a not insignificant part of GG that was harassing the same women before this all went down, GG just gave them a megaphone and the pretense of legitimacy
3DS: 2019-9671-8106 NNID: RamblinMushroom
Twitter/Tumblr
That there are terrible people who play video games is the status quo
That they are united behind a hashtag and pretending to be campaigning for ethics in journalism absolutely is.
And again, "Feminism should be a bigger issue in the potentially progressive by virtue of being the youngest art form of gaming" is a different thing than "People should be yelling at GamerGate more"
it doesn't exist because he thought you made one
y'all better actually justify that thread's existence
well, good luck
Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
Sorry, some of us live in AMERICA, so it's a reasonable time
Plus the Canucks just won, so clearly everyone's celebrating.
I cannot ensure that thread's survival, as an earlier one might have run its course already. Sorry, my bad!
Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
This is a storify (a collection of tweets and comments) from different people in twitter explaining some degree of anger at the "But being silent was fine" comment from Jeff. It's well worth giving it a read and consideration, especially because Alex jumps into the discussion as well and gives some thoughts.
I think it was utterly dreadful that Giantbomb, Polygon and many other sites have waited almost two months before doing anything significant to condemn it on their front pages. At the same time, this is a position I can have as a random guy on an internet forum who isn't at the head of a large gaming site and therefore under serious threat of harassment/attacks. Ben Kuchera on his twitter basically admitted that one of the reasons they held off so long (and in their editorial) was because they feared for their families and what effect it could have on them. I mention this because Patrick brought up a very similar point and how people have targeted his wife in the past when they disagreed.
I don't think that excuses silence, because many women involved in this never even got that option in the first place and always had to deal with it from the start, but it isn't solely a case of pure neglect, cowardice or being morally bankrupt to not immediately show support.
Holy shit that 4chan screenshot.
Tumblr | Twitter PSN: misterdapper Av by Satellite_09
Protip: Don't go to these places and read how they think about this.
They genuinely thought they were in Giantbombs good books for "Defending" them against the sinister SJWs (in reference to the drama that arose when they hired two new male staff members).
I'm serious.
Jeff Gerstmann is #NotYourShield
3DS Friend Code: 2165-6448-8348 www.Twitch.TV/cooljammer00
Battle.Net: JohnDarc#1203 Origin/UPlay: CoolJammer00
And this is one reason why silence is complicity.
3DS Friend Code: 2165-6448-8348 www.Twitch.TV/cooljammer00
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That was before Gamersgate and was specifically about a separate issue in a way that this one wasn't particularly specific enough.
I am not going to try and rationalize assholes like WhateverChan
3DS Friend Code: 2165-6448-8348 www.Twitch.TV/cooljammer00
Battle.Net: JohnDarc#1203 Origin/UPlay: CoolJammer00
I (unlike many) really like Marie but Jeff's confusion over her was great.
I would pay real-ass money beyond a sub for Jeff and Dan playing through P4G --- recollection trip for Jeff, wild bouts of trying new things for Dan. Persona 4 Goldan. I know it can't happen though because everyone's too busy. :(
Tabletop:13th Age (mm-mmm), D&D 4e
Occasional words about games: my site
3DS: 2019-9671-8106 NNID: RamblinMushroom
Twitter/Tumblr
This just in: there are lots of idiots on the internet. News at 11.
wrt Giantbomb
Letting people go on thinking/believing/pretending for two months.
As someone who listens to every episode of the podcast, but only occasionally reads articles on the site, or watch their videos ... I wasn't aware of the letter from the editor about the hiring.
And I didn't really think I had too much reason to think that they were keeping quite for reasons other than ... they didn't think it was a big enough deal to warrant the time to talk about it. (Which I guess is partially true, but for (bad) reasons.)
Sounds like part of they crew is coming around to thinking keeping silent wasn't the right approach.
So, I'm unable to log on to the site. Never really bothered, since I was unable to subscribe any way, but thought I might give it a go.
Any tips for when the site says "Wrong password or username"?
User name is you username, and not your mail address or favorite pet, right?
How long do you usually have to wait after setting a new passwd (and being able to log on your mobile *sigh*)?
Hand waving Bidwell's comments away is not real great. We scream bloody murder when the GG crowd hand wave away death threats and personal attacks as "assholes on the internet", we can't then hand wave away the idiots on our side of the debate. Sam Bidwell deserves to be called out for saying something gross and abusing his platform to advocate a gross thing.
Attacking vitriol with vitriol cheapens what we're trying to accomplish, and only makes things worse. Sinking to their level and all that, rabble rabble.
Also, I follow Sam Biddle on Twitter. He seems like a pretty big nerd to me. Would he bop himself?
3DS Friend Code: 2165-6448-8348 www.Twitch.TV/cooljammer00
Battle.Net: JohnDarc#1203 Origin/UPlay: CoolJammer00
So you think he's dumb for telling people to start bulling the bullies ... Yeah, that probably won't solve anything.
Not necessarily giving people a taste of their own medicine is always the wrong answer, but that sociopaths and trolls probably don't care what you spend you time doing on different social media.
Or are you surprised that he doesn't think nerds deserve special protection?
Really not sure what your point is.
Part of the problem with addressing a bunch of leaderless trolls is that they can easily get you to spend more time defending what ever you believe in than they have to do coming up with new accusations of false flags, double standards, etc.
But either way, you can prolly take it out of this thread.
But the best thing is knowing that Ryan most certainly would not have been for GG. He would be blocking fools, and releasing gag t-shirts, and it'd be great. Giant Bomb probably would have said something sooner, but that's not for me to say.
3DS Friend Code: 2165-6448-8348 www.Twitch.TV/cooljammer00
Battle.Net: JohnDarc#1203 Origin/UPlay: CoolJammer00
Dang! He's on vacation. I guess I'll try again in a couple of years.
Nah, he just left that there since the last time he was on vacation. PM him. Or Twitter, is probably more immediate.
3DS Friend Code: 2165-6448-8348 www.Twitch.TV/cooljammer00
Battle.Net: JohnDarc#1203 Origin/UPlay: CoolJammer00
Fuck that guy.
Yup. Really, Jeff and co had the best responses to that bullshit, which was basically "NAAAAAAAAAAAAH"
It reeks of desperation on GG's part, which is good.
3DS Friend Code: 2165-6448-8348 www.Twitch.TV/cooljammer00
Battle.Net: JohnDarc#1203 Origin/UPlay: CoolJammer00