Calling the marketing "criminal" is ridiculous and definitely not an "objective fact".
Facts are open to dispute.
Good thing I didn't say "criminal", then, and instead said "may potentially run afoul of consumer protection laws in various jurisdictions" and "potentially criminal".
Houn on
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KalnaurI See Rain . . .Centralia, WARegistered Userregular
You can also say that avoiding hype is meant as "avoided any marketing".
For my part, my enjoyment of the game came from not paying attention to anything about the game until less than a week before it came out on PC. Then, when I went about looking for information, I stumbled upon this on the NMS website:
Here is what No Man’s Sky definitely is:
Exploring a universe of pretty procedurally generated worlds, with beautiful creatures
Trading with NPCs
Combat against robots/mechs and cool space battles
Survival/crafting in a universe sized sandbox
An awesome procedural soundtrack from my genuine favourite band (check the NMS album out here)
For one small moment, you might feel like you’ve stepped into a sci-fi book cover
That means this maybe isn’t the game you *imagined* from those trailers. If you hoped for things like pvp multiplayer or city building, piloting freighters, or building civilizations… that isn’t what NMS is. Over time it might become some of those things through updates.
For instance, freighters and building bases *are* coming! Read about updates coming here.
That's what got me to wishlist it. And I've gotten 100% of what was listed there.
That is not to say that early impressions or information about the game should be dismissed. It's not to say you can't be lied to, or weren't lied to. I can't dismiss that because the fact that it didn't happen to me doesn't change if you feel it happened to you. I don't know how you feel (the all inclusive "you"), nor know your personal feelings.
For myself, I do not feel like I was lied to, because I went looking only for the most current information, but again, my exclusion of old information doesn't change that that information was put out there, and that new info, while not specifically hard to find, was not widely disseminated. They didn't exactly shout it from the rooftops, as it were.
So while I can say I avoided hype and marketing, and only looked at the newest available information, and that that is what got me to love the game, what I am not saying, and what you cannot claim I am saying, is that I'm intending to invalidate your bad experience with my good experience. Because your bad experience enveloped more than me, because I went much more shallow while you (again, that inclusive you) went deeper into the game information for longer, your experience is an apple to my orange. They may both be fruit, but they are vastly different, for a variety of reasons.
I make art things! deviantART:Kalnaur ::: Origin: Kalnaur ::: UPlay: Kalnaur
I've enjoyed my time with this game. This is probably because I tempered my expectations heavily and actively avoid hype.
There is nothing wrong with Josh enjoying the game. However, that second sentence only exists to qualify his enjoyment in a way that assumes bad behaviors on the part of others. Specifically, he qualifies that the likely reason he enjoyed his time with the game is because he "tempered expectations". This language creates the logical relationship:
If "tempered", then "enjoyed"
However, because English gonna English, it also defines that the opposite is true:
If not "tempered", then not "enjoyed"
That's not exactly true. That's simply saying that one of the ways to enjoy this game is to temper the hype. "If tempered, then enjoyed" is not the same thing as "If and only if tempered, then enjoyed".
Contextually, though, it's the most likely distillation of the essence of the words as written, and even if it's not the idea he was attempting to communicate, it's a valid interpretation of the statement. Which may just be English being English, but that's why it's extra-important to ensure that we choose wording that is as unambiguous in our meaning as possible.
Which was exactly my point. Someone saying the game is 'boring' and 'uninspired' for instance without qualifying that it is just their viewpoint, suggests that people who enjoy the game, like boring and uninspired things. It's absolutely a quirk of the English language, and it's largely, I believe, responsible for why people get so stupidly defensive when people talk about things they don't like.
Even as obvious as it is, if I say "This game is shit", it implies people who like it, enjoy shit. Whereas "I don't like this game" means that people who do like it, don't have any negative aspect associated with them.
It's silly, it's hardly ever intentional, but it is largely how opinions are shared, and it creates a very "Us vs Them" mentality, even subconsciously. People feel they have to defend their viewpoint because they are being assumed to like an objectively 'negative' thing. Even when that's rarely the intent.
And both sides do it. Sides here referring to people of opposing viewpoints, those who like the game, and those who don't, for whatever reasons.
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SurfpossumA nonentitytrying to preserve the anonymity he so richly deserves.Registered Userregular
I feel no need to defend the game itself; it is unquestionably flawed in a bunch of ways and I think it's perfectly reasonable to be dissatisfied or dislike it. Heck, I've got a bunch of criticisms myself, I just happen have a net positive opinion of it.
I've been largely avoiding things I would like to see in the game because I'd rather just enjoy it for what it currently is, but I'm bored at work so:
Big list of things that I would have designed differently:
- the HUD should be a toggle; make it part of the scanner on the planet and a projection/visor in the ship.
- make higher level upgrades get found in fragments most of the time; this would help smooth out the rate at which you unlock things; you'd unlock lower level stuff as soon as you find it, and later on you'd be finding the fragments to complete the higher level stuff.
- keep the solar systems "realistic;" actual rotation and orbits, and bigger distances between stuff. Just have the pulse engine continuously accelerate (to a point) while you're using it, or something like that, and use the "lock on" system it already has to make it easier to get to moving planets.
- related to the above, make it possible to get "stranded" in space, but allow space stations to haul your sorry butt back in (you can always pulse to them).
- way more lifeless worlds.
- better navigation; maybe a list of "known" things that highlights the selected one on the HUD or something.
- remove the minimum flight height like that one mod does.
- a dune buggy.
- more ship variety; let the generator get wackier with its placement and sizing of the various parts.
- more variety in the space battles; have actual skirmishes between groups of small ships, and be able to pick sides. I think most of the "pieces" for this are there already, but ended up being cut down.
Bigger additions that stray into fantasy:
- actual cities generated from modular blocks. If we want to get really fancy, blocks could generate NPCs that follow paths on other blocks to get to exit blocks.
- realistic water with a source and a drain rather than just a base water level that you can dig to. Would get complicated, but I think if the grenades generated fresh drain points you could make it work without risking a biblical flood.
- more cave variety.
- a similar modular system for the plants and rocks as for the animals; I think this might already be in to some extent, but more variation is good.
I'm from the "I liked the game" crowd, but I'm also from the "HG is managing this like shit and shouldn't be let off the hook" crowd. I avoided hype and expectations, but I also went and viewed some stuff before deciding to purchase the game, only to find later that some things are outright missing, or exceedingly watered down.
I'm not pursuing a refund but I kinda wish I did, just to stick it up to HG.
The weird thing is, even if you ignore all the out-of-game hype, even in game a lot is done to build certain expectations in the first several hours that don't hold up. Like, ignoring the media coverage completely, going in blind, you can still end up feeling like their were broken promises.
I believe the team genuinely wanted to fulfill them so it's honestly super weird how it managed to get into the state it did. It just feels... unfinished. Like they had this grand plan, and when they hit the ship date they just lopped bits off until it worked (more or less) and said "good enough".
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SurfpossumA nonentitytrying to preserve the anonymity he so richly deserves.Registered Userregular
edited September 2016
Well, there was that one Christmas where their office got flooded and destroyed a bunch of their work and the project was most likely going to be scrapped until Sony bailed them out.
That probably eventually led to some pressure to release something.
edit: this may not be accurate; I couldn't find much on the post-flood circumstances after a quick google so I may be misremembering Sony's involvement.
Jesus Christ. Some people are determined to have a fight about a silly game, I guess. It's perfectly fine to dislike No Man's Sky. I was merely saying that I personally went in with low expectations which were met. I in no way was making a disparaging comment towards anybody and the idea that I was victim blaming by declaring my enjoyment of this thing says more about you than anything I posted.
I've never played anything like it and I think the game, as it is, taken in a vacuum, is a goddamn miracle.
I get the frustration around it, and the customer interaction/managing expectations has been a complete and utter shitshow from HG.
But that said, I think the game itself is incredible and I am so, so excited for what is possible in the future and I am so, so sad that all these salty motherfuckers are probably going to make sure that never happens. Like, all I hear (and I realize this may not be what people are actually saying) is these little group of people created an amazing new experience that has never existed before and made it available to share and because it's not as much of the experience as they said it would be or I thought it would be I am going to fuck them just as absolutely as hard as I can so they never disappoint anyone ever again. The hate is so real and so personal and so melodramatic.
I sure hope these guys love making games because if I was them I'd take my money from the sales of the game and fuck right off. And god help anyone who was thinking of following in HG's footsteps.
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SurfpossumA nonentitytrying to preserve the anonymity he so richly deserves.Registered Userregular
Jesus Christ. Some people are determined to have a fight about a silly game, I guess. It's perfectly fine to dislike No Man's Sky. I was merely saying that I personally went in with low expectations which were met. I in no way was making a disparaging comment towards anybody and the idea that I was victim blaming by declaring my enjoyment of this thing says more about you than anything I posted.
yeah obviously people shouldn't have hyped themselves up over your comment so hard amirite
Statements like "I enjoyed it, but that's because I tempered my expectations" just come off as passive aggressive smugness and victim blaming, and a cheap way to make yourself look and feel better than someone else. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and believe that's not what you meant, but that's how your sentence can be parsed. "I kept my expectations in check, therefore I didn't have any problem, unlike you". Like ok buddy, maybe if we all could live up to your perfect example, the world would be a better place and we'd all enjoy this game. Again, I'll assume that's not what you truly meant, but that's precisely what it comes off as.
It's like somebody saying "I had a really hard time with this boss and it really frustrated me!" and responding with "Well I thought it was completely easy and a cakewalk, I don't know what your problem was". Well... good for you brah? That statement adds nothing at all to the conversation, and really just comes off more as being a goose.
"The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
Statements like "I enjoyed it, but that's because I tempered my expectations" just come off as passive aggressive smugness and victim blaming, and a cheap way to make yourself look and feel better than someone else. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and believe that's not what you meant, but that's how your sentence can be parsed. "I kept my expectations in check, therefore I didn't have any problem, unlike you". Like ok buddy, maybe if we all could live up to your perfect example, the world would be a better place and we'd all enjoy this game. Again, I'll assume that's not what you truly meant, but that's precisely what it comes off as.
It's like somebody saying "I had a really hard time with this boss and it really frustrated me!" and responding with "Well I thought it was completely easy and a cakewalk, I don't know what your problem was". Well... good for you brah? That statement adds nothing at all to the conversation, and really just comes off more as being a goose.
Who is the intended subject here? Who do you think I was referring to? Everybody in the thread? I wasn't quoting anybody or responding directly to some other post.
You really have to be reading into it to get there, especially given I wasn't addressing anybody. You have to be interpreting my words in the absolute least charitable light possible. In fact, my meaning was intended to come across more as, "the only reason I enjoyed this as much as I did is because I wasn't expecting much". If anything, that should be seen as validating the people who didn't enjoy it as much as I did.
Sorry I didn't make sure to specifically note that it's okay for other people to have their own opinions. I assumed that was a given.
joshofalltrades on
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Forever Zefirocloaked in the midnight glory of an event horizonRegistered Userregular
I feel like a lot of the comments for the last several pages haven't added anything to the conversation.
XBL - Foreverender | 3DS FC - 1418 6696 1012 | Steam ID | LoL
Jesus Christ. Some people are determined to have a fight about a silly game, I guess. It's perfectly fine to dislike No Man's Sky. I was merely saying that I personally went in with low expectations which were met. I in no way was making a disparaging comment towards anybody and the idea that I was victim blaming by declaring my enjoyment of this thing says more about you than anything I posted.
Yeah, your original comment is 100% my recipe to enjoying the game.
I lived through black and white as an 11 year old, through fable, and through spore as a teenager and young adult.
I just learned a personal lesson from that. Fable gave me the full rollercoaster to allow me to get super hyped, not buy it because I didn't have an Xbox, and then ultimately really enjoy the game once it came out on PC because I had time to ratchet my expectations waaaay the hell down.
Did it suck that Molyneux promised a bunch of really cool stuff? Yes, it did a lot.
Would I have enjoyed that game, or this one, if I had played it with all of the marketing in my head? Nope, probably not.
I don't blame anyone for getting hyped. As someone who read about this game at announcement, it rang every single alarm bell I had from those prior experiences. So yes, myself and some others may occasionally mention that. I don't know how to phrase my enjoyment of such a ridiculously hyped game in any other way.
I had an opportunity to play the game with a friend about a week back and all I can say is if you think Elite: Dangerous is a great game, there's no need to spend money on No Man's Sky.
If you are into questioning your decisions, however, it's up there with things like The Division for "why did I think this wasn't going to fall apart on contact?" Granted, NMS doesn't have much player-to-player contact so there are fewer opportunities for things to go bad from a community standpoint, but the overall play experience feels like Space Minecraft with a subpar clone of a decent flight sim tacked on.
For me, NMS is on the pile with Destiny. They're both games that chased incredibly ambitious ideas that ended up being greatly scaled back, have certain things they do really well, but completely flounder on everything else. Both seem like prototypes for the games they want to be, and maybe the sequels will correct these issues.
Now that I'm playing NMS, Steam keeps recommending Spore to me. Not that Spore was a bad game, by any means
There's so much cool stuff in this game. I think ultimately though, about ten hours in, I don't feel like the game world is interacting with me in any meaningful way. It's a weirdly subjective thing to say, because my in-game actions do have consequences (for me), but somehow they all seem unimportant. Like, I can do the stuff do get a respirator on my suit, and then I can go underwater for longer, where...everything is the same as above water because it's all procedurally generated.
Definitely not a purchase I regret, although I perhaps wish I'd waited for a sale.
3DS: 4098-4243-6127
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KalnaurI See Rain . . .Centralia, WARegistered Userregular
If I could get better scanning, that kept creature spawn points (the grey dots) on the screen even when I didn't have the button pressed down, that would be great. Even better would be if the pulse scanner had an upgrade that would display creature dots as red or green when you hit the pulse button (L3 on the controller) so you'd know if you should head in "that" direction or not. It's the only real part of the game where I feel like it's a marginally badly implemented feature, like a game of hide and seek where even if you find something, maybe you didn't.
The ship battles are simple to the point of being Star Fox simple (and I consider that a compliment), The buildings et al are well spaced enough to generally keep me heading from one to the next with ease (though the building types could easily benefit from more variety), the bonus/upgrade system is simple to understand and harder to plan for (unless you want to whip out some graph paper and plan out your item placement, or just aren't that worried about the bonuses). While the alien interactions can be simple, they only get easier the more of a language you know (though it would be nice if you could use the trade goods in conjunction with the aliens; thus far I've not seen that happen). I sort of wish, though, that some upgrades were more or less "locked" behind certain qualities of star systems. Like, if I could get all the Sigma upgrades at yellow stars, all the Tau upgrades only at red stars, all the Theta upgrades at Green stars, and the few Omega upgrades at Blue stars, that would give people a great reason to go to those types of systems instead of just following the yellow brick road.
Also, apparently both the suit and ship could originally only carry a stack of 100, which they increased right before release, and mentioned that they'd like to increase it further for "people in the latter game phases", whatever that might mean. I'd really like that to hit sooner rather than later, as I like to hang on to plenty of each resource, in case I want to "make something".
I make art things! deviantART:Kalnaur ::: Origin: Kalnaur ::: UPlay: Kalnaur
Now that I'm playing NMS, Steam keeps recommending Spore to me. Not that Spore was a bad game, by any means
There's so much cool stuff in this game. I think ultimately though, about ten hours in, I don't feel like the game world is interacting with me in any meaningful way. It's a weirdly subjective thing to say, because my in-game actions do have consequences (for me), but somehow they all seem unimportant. Like, I can do the stuff do get a respirator on my suit, and then I can go underwater for longer, where...everything is the same as above water because it's all procedurally generated.
Definitely not a purchase I regret, although I perhaps wish I'd waited for a sale.
I pretty much agree with what you're saying. The only exception is that, I'm sad I didn't take a screenshot of it at the time, but I've seen some pretty awesome stuff underwater that didn't seem to be just "above ground but with water". I found a glowy red ocean that freaked me the hell out, and I was taken aback by how different it was from the surface. I was honestly expecting it to be "above ground but with water" based on all of the conversation surrounding the game, but at the worst the procedural gen did a damn good job of making me think it works differently for oceans.
I bought the game on the recommendation of the forums, even though I expected spore 2.0. My expectations were right and the game is a massive disappointment without me even having any hype. I cannot imagine how bad those of you who were really hyped must feel.
I've played the game for a limited number of hours, mainly because I am really tired of having a full inventory, and dealing with that against a backdrop of adding more slots by exploring isn't fun to me. The game has a great concept, but for me personally, the novelty wears off after about 20 mins of each play session.
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FiggyFighter of the night manChampion of the sunRegistered Userregular
Can't scan birds? Lemme patch that.
Everyone hates the "hold to execute UI" which requires a tiny little adjustment to your shoddy port to fix? Nah, go find a mod, nerds.
Everyone hates the "hold to execute UI" which requires a tiny little adjustment to your shoddy port to fix? Nah, go find a mod, nerds.
I actually don't mind the Hold to Execute UI. I've never seen that before, and it's better than a prompt. It's saved me from selling things I didn't want to sell, too.
That said, I'm not sure it has to be for everything.
I make art things! deviantART:Kalnaur ::: Origin: Kalnaur ::: UPlay: Kalnaur
Everyone hates the "hold to execute UI" which requires a tiny little adjustment to your shoddy port to fix? Nah, go find a mod, nerds.
I get that we can't have a "people who like the game" thread and a "people who don't" thread, but stuff like this makes it a blast to come in here and talk about a game you're enjoying. I guess it just feels increasingly incongruous with the thread to come in and be "Hey guys look at all of these cool screenshots and worlds!"
Fiatil on
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FiggyFighter of the night manChampion of the sunRegistered Userregular
Everyone hates the "hold to execute UI" which requires a tiny little adjustment to your shoddy port to fix? Nah, go find a mod, nerds.
I get that we can't have a "people who like the game" thread and a "people who don't" thread, but stuff like this makes it a blast to come in here and talk about a game you're enjoying. I guess it just feels increasingly incongruous with the thread to come in and be "Hey guys look at all of these cool screenshots and worlds!"
Sorry, I'm discussing this game in a thread made to discuss it. And pointing out design decisions that are frustrating to me. The fact that they're patching and still ignoring easy fixes (so easy that non-programmers are modding the changes in) is absurd to me. Just another notch in the column of terrible communication and community involvement by the Devs.
No one is stopping you from discussing your worlds or screenshots. In fact, the only people trying to modify posting sentiment are some of the supporters. I don't think anyone who has come to dislike or like the game less has ever said in here "stop saying you like the game, it's ruining this thread for me."
So yeah, some people are disappointed with the game now. Some people regret the purchase. And some of them (like me) are still loosely following the thread to see what changes have taken place and are being discussed here. And may comment on them.
Because, you know, we can't rely on HG communicating these changes reliably.
“Don’t take this the wrong way, but our background is as console developers, and I think everything about the game bears hallmarks of that,” says Murray. “In terms of your controls, in terms of the fluidity of the game, this is not a quirky, hard-to-decipher experience.”
“Don’t take this the wrong way, but our background is as console developers, and I think everything about the game bears hallmarks of that,” says Murray. “In terms of your controls, in terms of the fluidity of the game, this is not a quirky, hard-to-decipher experience.”
What's his point? You can't learn or adapt to an audience? And I honestly can't parse the last sentence. What noun is "this" referring to, the game? Implying a PC game is inherently quirky compared to console?
I'd love to say that in my job. I'm a print ad guy at heart, so you'll notice our digital materials reflect that.
AegeriTiny wee bacteriumsPlateau of LengRegistered Userregular
Some of the interface decisions in this game are utterly dreadful and even without "lol consoles" being a thing, considering I play on my PC with a controller anyway, their UI is bafflingly bad in numerous ways. Whoever thought "The player needs to go into their inventory, find a resource, grab it and then stick it manually into their ships shields instead of hitting a single button" was just not considering basic playability.
SurfpossumA nonentitytrying to preserve the anonymity he so richly deserves.Registered Userregular
edited September 2016
The point is that things people call evidence of a shoddy port may just be design decisions.
You don't have to like them but I am so, so tired of people assuming the worst explanation for every thing in this game.
e: On the quality of said decisions, I agree that the shield thing is extra terrible, but aside from limiting it to only being recharged by one type of resource I don't see any elegant one-button fixes.
(Also you can select the thing you want to refill and it'll open a menu of stuff to chuck into it, which isn't much better but it helps.)
KalnaurI See Rain . . .Centralia, WARegistered Userregular
Gotta say, agree. With both points. The feeding and upkeep would commonly be easier on a console (and as far as I've seen, the left and right buttons on the D-pad don't do anything, so they could start there), but most of the UI/Inventory/control decisions feel like a console game, and if that's what they're used to, I'm not surprised folks who only KBAM are annoyed or think of it as a shoddy port. For people like me, who only play with controllers if I can help it, I see few problems.
I make art things! deviantART:Kalnaur ::: Origin: Kalnaur ::: UPlay: Kalnaur
It's annoying playing KBAM and trying to use stuff in the lower areas of the inventory, because the menu that pops-up drops off the fucking screen and you can't access stuff on it. You would have thought that programming it so the pop-up window is always entirely on-screen would have been something they would have picked up on while making the game.
The point is that things people call evidence of a shoddy port may just be design decisions.
You don't have to like them but I am so, so tired of people assuming the worst explanation for every thing in this game.
e: On the quality of said decisions, I agree that the shield thing is extra terrible, but aside from limiting it to only being recharged by one type of resource I don't see any elegant one-button fixes.
(Also you can select the thing you want to refill and it'll open a menu of stuff to chuck into it, which isn't much better but it helps.)
I read that as apologist speak. Don't piss down my neck and tell me it's raining. The UI is objectively poor and flies in the face of how many years of game development getting more and more intuitive with this stuff? A game comes along that ignores the accepted better way to make a game more fun and we are supposed to say, "Oh guys, it's fine, it's supposed to be this way."
These largely aren't subjective, either. Even if you want to stick your head in the sand and say "hold to execute" is totally fine (it's what Destiny's UI was also blasted for time and time again), there are so many other points that are just baffling. The reason they're still in the game is that they never QA tested this game outside of the people that had developed it. They got used to the tedium and never thought it really mattered.
"Use a controller" is also not an acceptable response. This is on PC. These aren't engine-rewriting changes. These are simple QOL UI changes that would go a long ass way to making this game better.
To be extra super clear the only issue I had with your original comment was "port."
What's wrong with the comment? It's literally what this is.
Like, it was designed as a PS4 exclusive and ported to PC, no? Port does not inherently imply that it's bad. There are some really great ports.
No. PS4 development became a thing in 2014 after Sony bailed them out (after the office destroying flood). It was never PS4 exclusive, just getting released on it first.
edit: got my timeline wrong; I think Aegeri may have the right of it.
To be extra super clear the only issue I had with your original comment was "port."
What's wrong with the comment? It's literally what this is.
Like, it was designed as a PS4 exclusive and ported to PC, no? Port does not inherently imply that it's bad. There are some really great ports.
No. PS4 development became a thing in 2014 after Sony bailed them out (after the office destroying flood). It was never PS4 exclusive, just getting released on it first.
edit: got my timeline wrong
Aren't we supposed to not consider what was decided years ago? :P
In any event, this version is a port. Console exclusivity was an assumption on my part here but in no way determines the application of the term 'port'.
NMS was primarily designed for console with the limitations of that hardware and controller in mind. The game, on PC, is exactly the same as the game on console in terms of not taking advantage of the more robust/powerful environment of the PC. A good port makes those adjustments. A bad port does not.
Another example of why NMS is a bad port is that only via controller do you get cockpit free look. Playing KBAM does not actually have this as a bindable control. Was that a design decision to limit functionality of the game to console-style controls, or was it yet another oversight when the game was ported to PC?
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Facts are open to dispute.
Good thing I didn't say "criminal", then, and instead said "may potentially run afoul of consumer protection laws in various jurisdictions" and "potentially criminal".
For my part, my enjoyment of the game came from not paying attention to anything about the game until less than a week before it came out on PC. Then, when I went about looking for information, I stumbled upon this on the NMS website:
That's what got me to wishlist it. And I've gotten 100% of what was listed there.
That is not to say that early impressions or information about the game should be dismissed. It's not to say you can't be lied to, or weren't lied to. I can't dismiss that because the fact that it didn't happen to me doesn't change if you feel it happened to you. I don't know how you feel (the all inclusive "you"), nor know your personal feelings.
For myself, I do not feel like I was lied to, because I went looking only for the most current information, but again, my exclusion of old information doesn't change that that information was put out there, and that new info, while not specifically hard to find, was not widely disseminated. They didn't exactly shout it from the rooftops, as it were.
So while I can say I avoided hype and marketing, and only looked at the newest available information, and that that is what got me to love the game, what I am not saying, and what you cannot claim I am saying, is that I'm intending to invalidate your bad experience with my good experience. Because your bad experience enveloped more than me, because I went much more shallow while you (again, that inclusive you) went deeper into the game information for longer, your experience is an apple to my orange. They may both be fruit, but they are vastly different, for a variety of reasons.
Which was exactly my point. Someone saying the game is 'boring' and 'uninspired' for instance without qualifying that it is just their viewpoint, suggests that people who enjoy the game, like boring and uninspired things. It's absolutely a quirk of the English language, and it's largely, I believe, responsible for why people get so stupidly defensive when people talk about things they don't like.
Even as obvious as it is, if I say "This game is shit", it implies people who like it, enjoy shit. Whereas "I don't like this game" means that people who do like it, don't have any negative aspect associated with them.
It's silly, it's hardly ever intentional, but it is largely how opinions are shared, and it creates a very "Us vs Them" mentality, even subconsciously. People feel they have to defend their viewpoint because they are being assumed to like an objectively 'negative' thing. Even when that's rarely the intent.
And both sides do it. Sides here referring to people of opposing viewpoints, those who like the game, and those who don't, for whatever reasons.
Official PA Forums FFXIV:ARR Free Company <GHOST> gitl.enjin.com Join us on Sargatanas!
I've been largely avoiding things I would like to see in the game because I'd rather just enjoy it for what it currently is, but I'm bored at work so:
- the HUD should be a toggle; make it part of the scanner on the planet and a projection/visor in the ship.
- make higher level upgrades get found in fragments most of the time; this would help smooth out the rate at which you unlock things; you'd unlock lower level stuff as soon as you find it, and later on you'd be finding the fragments to complete the higher level stuff.
- keep the solar systems "realistic;" actual rotation and orbits, and bigger distances between stuff. Just have the pulse engine continuously accelerate (to a point) while you're using it, or something like that, and use the "lock on" system it already has to make it easier to get to moving planets.
- related to the above, make it possible to get "stranded" in space, but allow space stations to haul your sorry butt back in (you can always pulse to them).
- way more lifeless worlds.
- better navigation; maybe a list of "known" things that highlights the selected one on the HUD or something.
- remove the minimum flight height like that one mod does.
- a dune buggy.
- more ship variety; let the generator get wackier with its placement and sizing of the various parts.
- more variety in the space battles; have actual skirmishes between groups of small ships, and be able to pick sides. I think most of the "pieces" for this are there already, but ended up being cut down.
Bigger additions that stray into fantasy:
- actual cities generated from modular blocks. If we want to get really fancy, blocks could generate NPCs that follow paths on other blocks to get to exit blocks.
- realistic water with a source and a drain rather than just a base water level that you can dig to. Would get complicated, but I think if the grenades generated fresh drain points you could make it work without risking a biblical flood.
- more cave variety.
- a similar modular system for the plants and rocks as for the animals; I think this might already be in to some extent, but more variation is good.
I'm not pursuing a refund but I kinda wish I did, just to stick it up to HG.
However at this point there probably won't be a sequel.
I believe the team genuinely wanted to fulfill them so it's honestly super weird how it managed to get into the state it did. It just feels... unfinished. Like they had this grand plan, and when they hit the ship date they just lopped bits off until it worked (more or less) and said "good enough".
That probably eventually led to some pressure to release something.
edit: this may not be accurate; I couldn't find much on the post-flood circumstances after a quick google so I may be misremembering Sony's involvement.
I get the frustration around it, and the customer interaction/managing expectations has been a complete and utter shitshow from HG.
But that said, I think the game itself is incredible and I am so, so excited for what is possible in the future and I am so, so sad that all these salty motherfuckers are probably going to make sure that never happens. Like, all I hear (and I realize this may not be what people are actually saying) is these little group of people created an amazing new experience that has never existed before and made it available to share and because it's not as much of the experience as they said it would be or I thought it would be I am going to fuck them just as absolutely as hard as I can so they never disappoint anyone ever again. The hate is so real and so personal and so melodramatic.
I sure hope these guys love making games because if I was them I'd take my money from the sales of the game and fuck right off. And god help anyone who was thinking of following in HG's footsteps.
It's like somebody saying "I had a really hard time with this boss and it really frustrated me!" and responding with "Well I thought it was completely easy and a cakewalk, I don't know what your problem was". Well... good for you brah? That statement adds nothing at all to the conversation, and really just comes off more as being a goose.
Who is the intended subject here? Who do you think I was referring to? Everybody in the thread? I wasn't quoting anybody or responding directly to some other post.
You really have to be reading into it to get there, especially given I wasn't addressing anybody. You have to be interpreting my words in the absolute least charitable light possible. In fact, my meaning was intended to come across more as, "the only reason I enjoyed this as much as I did is because I wasn't expecting much". If anything, that should be seen as validating the people who didn't enjoy it as much as I did.
Sorry I didn't make sure to specifically note that it's okay for other people to have their own opinions. I assumed that was a given.
XBL - Foreverender | 3DS FC - 1418 6696 1012 | Steam ID | LoL
Yeah, your original comment is 100% my recipe to enjoying the game.
I lived through black and white as an 11 year old, through fable, and through spore as a teenager and young adult.
I just learned a personal lesson from that. Fable gave me the full rollercoaster to allow me to get super hyped, not buy it because I didn't have an Xbox, and then ultimately really enjoy the game once it came out on PC because I had time to ratchet my expectations waaaay the hell down.
Did it suck that Molyneux promised a bunch of really cool stuff? Yes, it did a lot.
Would I have enjoyed that game, or this one, if I had played it with all of the marketing in my head? Nope, probably not.
I don't blame anyone for getting hyped. As someone who read about this game at announcement, it rang every single alarm bell I had from those prior experiences. So yes, myself and some others may occasionally mention that. I don't know how to phrase my enjoyment of such a ridiculously hyped game in any other way.
If you are into questioning your decisions, however, it's up there with things like The Division for "why did I think this wasn't going to fall apart on contact?" Granted, NMS doesn't have much player-to-player contact so there are fewer opportunities for things to go bad from a community standpoint, but the overall play experience feels like Space Minecraft with a subpar clone of a decent flight sim tacked on.
There's so much cool stuff in this game. I think ultimately though, about ten hours in, I don't feel like the game world is interacting with me in any meaningful way. It's a weirdly subjective thing to say, because my in-game actions do have consequences (for me), but somehow they all seem unimportant. Like, I can do the stuff do get a respirator on my suit, and then I can go underwater for longer, where...everything is the same as above water because it's all procedurally generated.
Definitely not a purchase I regret, although I perhaps wish I'd waited for a sale.
The ship battles are simple to the point of being Star Fox simple (and I consider that a compliment), The buildings et al are well spaced enough to generally keep me heading from one to the next with ease (though the building types could easily benefit from more variety), the bonus/upgrade system is simple to understand and harder to plan for (unless you want to whip out some graph paper and plan out your item placement, or just aren't that worried about the bonuses). While the alien interactions can be simple, they only get easier the more of a language you know (though it would be nice if you could use the trade goods in conjunction with the aliens; thus far I've not seen that happen). I sort of wish, though, that some upgrades were more or less "locked" behind certain qualities of star systems. Like, if I could get all the Sigma upgrades at yellow stars, all the Tau upgrades only at red stars, all the Theta upgrades at Green stars, and the few Omega upgrades at Blue stars, that would give people a great reason to go to those types of systems instead of just following the yellow brick road.
Also, apparently both the suit and ship could originally only carry a stack of 100, which they increased right before release, and mentioned that they'd like to increase it further for "people in the latter game phases", whatever that might mean. I'd really like that to hit sooner rather than later, as I like to hang on to plenty of each resource, in case I want to "make something".
I pretty much agree with what you're saying. The only exception is that, I'm sad I didn't take a screenshot of it at the time, but I've seen some pretty awesome stuff underwater that didn't seem to be just "above ground but with water". I found a glowy red ocean that freaked me the hell out, and I was taken aback by how different it was from the surface. I was honestly expecting it to be "above ground but with water" based on all of the conversation surrounding the game, but at the worst the procedural gen did a damn good job of making me think it works differently for oceans.
PSN:Furlion
Everyone hates the "hold to execute UI" which requires a tiny little adjustment to your shoddy port to fix? Nah, go find a mod, nerds.
I actually don't mind the Hold to Execute UI. I've never seen that before, and it's better than a prompt. It's saved me from selling things I didn't want to sell, too.
That said, I'm not sure it has to be for everything.
I get that we can't have a "people who like the game" thread and a "people who don't" thread, but stuff like this makes it a blast to come in here and talk about a game you're enjoying. I guess it just feels increasingly incongruous with the thread to come in and be "Hey guys look at all of these cool screenshots and worlds!"
Sorry, I'm discussing this game in a thread made to discuss it. And pointing out design decisions that are frustrating to me. The fact that they're patching and still ignoring easy fixes (so easy that non-programmers are modding the changes in) is absurd to me. Just another notch in the column of terrible communication and community involvement by the Devs.
No one is stopping you from discussing your worlds or screenshots. In fact, the only people trying to modify posting sentiment are some of the supporters. I don't think anyone who has come to dislike or like the game less has ever said in here "stop saying you like the game, it's ruining this thread for me."
So yeah, some people are disappointed with the game now. Some people regret the purchase. And some of them (like me) are still loosely following the thread to see what changes have taken place and are being discussed here. And may comment on them.
Because, you know, we can't rely on HG communicating these changes reliably.
What's his point? You can't learn or adapt to an audience? And I honestly can't parse the last sentence. What noun is "this" referring to, the game? Implying a PC game is inherently quirky compared to console?
I'd love to say that in my job. I'm a print ad guy at heart, so you'll notice our digital materials reflect that.
You don't have to like them but I am so, so tired of people assuming the worst explanation for every thing in this game.
e: On the quality of said decisions, I agree that the shield thing is extra terrible, but aside from limiting it to only being recharged by one type of resource I don't see any elegant one-button fixes.
(Also you can select the thing you want to refill and it'll open a menu of stuff to chuck into it, which isn't much better but it helps.)
Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
I read that as apologist speak. Don't piss down my neck and tell me it's raining. The UI is objectively poor and flies in the face of how many years of game development getting more and more intuitive with this stuff? A game comes along that ignores the accepted better way to make a game more fun and we are supposed to say, "Oh guys, it's fine, it's supposed to be this way."
These largely aren't subjective, either. Even if you want to stick your head in the sand and say "hold to execute" is totally fine (it's what Destiny's UI was also blasted for time and time again), there are so many other points that are just baffling. The reason they're still in the game is that they never QA tested this game outside of the people that had developed it. They got used to the tedium and never thought it really mattered.
"Use a controller" is also not an acceptable response. This is on PC. These aren't engine-rewriting changes. These are simple QOL UI changes that would go a long ass way to making this game better.
What's wrong with the comment? It's literally what this is.
Like, it was designed as a PS4 exclusive and ported to PC, no? Port does not inherently imply that it's bad. There are some really great ports.
edit: got my timeline wrong; I think Aegeri may have the right of it.
Aren't we supposed to not consider what was decided years ago? :P
In any event, this version is a port. Console exclusivity was an assumption on my part here but in no way determines the application of the term 'port'.
NMS was primarily designed for console with the limitations of that hardware and controller in mind. The game, on PC, is exactly the same as the game on console in terms of not taking advantage of the more robust/powerful environment of the PC. A good port makes those adjustments. A bad port does not.
Another example of why NMS is a bad port is that only via controller do you get cockpit free look. Playing KBAM does not actually have this as a bindable control. Was that a design decision to limit functionality of the game to console-style controls, or was it yet another oversight when the game was ported to PC?