It is, but Dragon Age 1 was also real good. It didn't deserve to get shit on and turned into a fantasy Mass Effect. There wasn't a compelling need to change it, either; the success of games like Divinity: Original Sin and Pillars of Eternity can speak to that.
Yeah, but "success in terms of critical reaction and Kickstarter expectations" isn't what EA wants. EA wants Skyrim money — not Pillars of Eternity money.
Hardcore PC RPG people aren't enough to support a game at the level EA and Activision are playing at.
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BassguyGhost Ride the DragonRegistered Userregular
It is, but Dragon Age 1 was also real good. It didn't deserve to get shit on and turned into a fantasy Mass Effect. There wasn't a compelling need to change it, either; the success of games like Divinity: Original Sin and Pillars of Eternity can speak to that.
Yeah, but "success in terms of critical reaction and Kickstarter expectations" isn't what EA wants. EA wants Skyrim money — not Pillars of Eternity money.
Hardcore PC RPG people aren't enough to support a game at the level EA and Activision are playing at.
Also you have to think back to 2010 or whatever it was. DA:O sold well but not as well as Mass Effect and there were no other similar games to compare to back then. It makes perfect sense that they thought they could make more money by making DA a bit more MassEffectey
You'll note that the market has now shifted again and Inquisition has gone back the other direction a bit
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DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
I still hold that from a pure gameplay perspective DA1 wasn't very good.
Not saying that DA2 was that much better but...eh at least it I found it a bit more fun.
That said, I also have problems with DAI's combat. It straddles this weird line between action and topdown strategy and I don't feel like either are being done as well as they could be.
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CambiataCommander ShepardThe likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered Userregular
I still hold that from a pure gameplay perspective DA1 wasn't very good.
Not saying that DA2 was that much better but...eh at least it I found it a bit more fun.
That said, I also have problems with DAI's combat. It straddles this weird line between action and topdown strategy and I don't feel like either are being done as well as they could be.
DA2 was the the only DA combat I actually enjoyed.
"If you divide the whole world into just enemies and friends, you'll end up destroying everything" --Nausicaa of the Valley of Wind
It is, but Dragon Age 1 was also real good. It didn't deserve to get shit on and turned into a fantasy Mass Effect. There wasn't a compelling need to change it, either; the success of games like Divinity: Original Sin and Pillars of Eternity can speak to that.
Yeah, but "success in terms of critical reaction and Kickstarter expectations" isn't what EA wants. EA wants Skyrim money — not Pillars of Eternity money.
Hardcore PC RPG people aren't enough to support a game at the level EA and Activision are playing at.
Obviously not a perfect comparison, but looking at available sales figures it sold about half as well and got ~10% lower review scores. Either way you look at it, it was clearly a step in the wrong direction.
DA2 combat wasn't really as different as people say, the concept for the cross class combos was a good idea anyway, but it just....didn't work. It was way too fast, the damn waves, the tactics menu was completely non-functional in comparison, the waves, the camera was perpetually stuck up your character's ass, oh yeah, and there was something with waves.
Of course, DAI was worse at 2/3 of those issues, but somehow that wasn't anywhere near as big an issue :rotate:
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HardtargetThere Are Four LightsVancouverRegistered Userregular
It is, but Dragon Age 1 was also real good. It didn't deserve to get shit on and turned into a fantasy Mass Effect. There wasn't a compelling need to change it, either; the success of games like Divinity: Original Sin and Pillars of Eternity can speak to that.
Yeah, but "success in terms of critical reaction and Kickstarter expectations" isn't what EA wants. EA wants Skyrim money — not Pillars of Eternity money.
Hardcore PC RPG people aren't enough to support a game at the level EA and Activision are playing at.
Obviously not a perfect comparison, but looking at available sales figures it sold about half as well and got ~10% lower review scores. Either way you look at it, it was clearly a step in the wrong direction.
oh for sure, they fucked up, but they didn't realize they fucked up before they did (if that makes sense)
Either way, i love me some DA2, f the haters
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DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
Actually...playing through DA:I. I kind of wish they didn't completely abandon waves and just found a way to re-implement them.
DA:I a lot of the times the enemies are just sitting there...waiting to be slaughtered by your party.
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GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
edited March 2015
Yet neither of those games sold as well as Mass Effect, so you kind of maybe see where EA and Bioware got the idea that RPG fans had perhaps moved towards more action, character focused, dramas over large, sprawling, tactical epics. It was an incorrect assumption, but an understandable one if you look at the data.
It is, but Dragon Age 1 was also real good. It didn't deserve to get shit on and turned into a fantasy Mass Effect. There wasn't a compelling need to change it, either; the success of games like Divinity: Original Sin and Pillars of Eternity can speak to that.
Yeah, but "success in terms of critical reaction and Kickstarter expectations" isn't what EA wants. EA wants Skyrim money — not Pillars of Eternity money.
Hardcore PC RPG people aren't enough to support a game at the level EA and Activision are playing at.
Obviously not a perfect comparison, but looking at available sales figures it sold about half as well and got ~10% lower review scores. Either way you look at it, it was clearly a step in the wrong direction.
Oh, it definitely didn't do as well. The rushed nature, slightly worse reviews, and the chronological proximity to previous DA releases probably all played a part.
But I don't think it's safe to say that a proper release in DA2's style wouldn't do well. If they had more time and budget on DA2, I am willing to bet the biggest issues would have been reduced if not completely solved.
But I don't think it's safe to say that a proper release in DA2's style wouldn't do well. If they had more time and budget on DA2, I am willing to bet the biggest issues would have been reduced if not completely solved.
When they had the time and budget they made DA3, which walked back a lot of the problems introduced in DA2. It didn't go far enough, but it's certainly a step in the right direction and I'm sure we'll see DA4 follow in those footsteps.
Actually...playing through DA:I. I kind of wish they didn't completely abandon waves and just found a way to re-implement them.
DA:I a lot of the times the enemies are just sitting there...waiting to be slaughtered by your party.
There are definitely waves at points in Inquisition. I'm only twenty hours in, and they seem to be mostly in the on-rails main quest missions. That aim-the-catapult section is a notable one.
DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
edited March 2015
Honestly...I feel like people want to use DA3 to champion what they liked about DA1 or DA2 and that doesn't really work because DA3 is a weird mix of both DA1 and DA2 while doing a few things that neither of them have done.
All and all, and this is from the perspective of people who aren't Bioware or Baldur's Gate fans. DA3 is probably the first Dragon Age game that I have seen garner a lot of interest outside of either or those groups.
So...its kind of its own beast.
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TTODewbackPuts the drawl in ya'llI think I'm in HellRegistered Userregular
Actually...playing through DA:I. I kind of wish they didn't completely abandon waves and just found a way to re-implement them.
DA:I a lot of the times the enemies are just sitting there...waiting to be slaughtered by your party.
There are definitely waves at points in Inquisition. I'm only twenty hours in, and they seem to be mostly in the on-rails main quest missions. That aim-the-catapult section is a notable one.
All fade rifts.
Although sometimes the monster have a hard time aggro'ing anyone if the player controlled character is stealth.
So theyre back to just chilling out
Honestly...I feel like people want to use DA3 to champion what they liked about DA1 or DA2 and that doesn't really work because DA3 is a weird mix of both DA1 and DA2 while doing a few things that neither of them have done.
All and all, and this is from the perspective of people who aren't Bioware or Baldur's Gate fans. DA3 is probably the first Dragon Age game that I have seen garner a lot of interest outside of either or those groups.
So...its kind of its own beast.
So what your saying is that it's a sequel.
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DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
edited March 2015
No. I'm saying what I just said in that quote.
Edit: Like I would say DA1 and DA2 were both very focused dungeon crawler-y experiences.
DA3 was more open...which is why I think there were a lot of problems with the cinematic presentation.
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HardtargetThere Are Four LightsVancouverRegistered Userregular
But I don't think it's safe to say that a proper release in DA2's style wouldn't do well. If they had more time and budget on DA2, I am willing to bet the biggest issues would have been reduced if not completely solved.
When they had the time and budget they made DA3, which walked back a lot of the problems introduced in DA2. It didn't go far enough, but it's certainly a step in the right direction and I'm sure we'll see DA4 follow in those footsteps.
what? no
they made DA3 after seeing the response to 2. If they had time and budget 2 would have been 2 but with more environments
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TTODewbackPuts the drawl in ya'llI think I'm in HellRegistered Userregular
Honestly...I feel like people want to use DA3 to champion what they liked about DA1 or DA2 and that doesn't really work because DA3 is a weird mix of both DA1 and DA2 while doing a few things that neither of them have done.
All and all, and this is from the perspective of people who aren't Bioware or Baldur's Gate fans. DA3 is probably the first Dragon Age game that I have seen garner a lot of interest outside of either or those groups.
So...its kind of its own beast.
What about Mass Effect? There are tons and tons and tons of people who weren't interested in traditional BioWare who got invested in ME. KotOR as well, but obviously that has the benefit of the STAR WARS name.
I had largely zero interest in Baldur's Gate and Neverwinter Nights, but KotOR was a huge deal for me, and sold me on the BioWare house style.
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DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
I don't know how what I said negates anything about ME's popularity.
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BassguyGhost Ride the DragonRegistered Userregular
I don't know how what I said negates anything about ME's popularity.
Ah, I think I misread your statement.
"All and all, and this is from the perspective of people who aren't Bioware or Baldur's Gate fans. DA3 is probably the first Dragon Age game that I have seen garner a lot of interest outside of either or those groups."
I think that confused me, specifically. I thought you were saying that it was the first BioWare game that garnered interest in those groups.
Actually...playing through DA:I. I kind of wish they didn't completely abandon waves and just found a way to re-implement them.
DA:I a lot of the times the enemies are just sitting there...waiting to be slaughtered by your party.
This. DA:I suffers from MMO-style enemy placement and AI. Most enemies are in small groups that wander randomly and have a pretty small aggro radius.
It's like the designers were trying to recreate the worst aspects of WoW/TOR trash mob combat.
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DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
edited March 2015
No...I was saying its the first game that seems to have garnered interest in the Dragon Age series from that perspective.
If anything, I think a lot of people went into Origins after Mass Effect not knowing what to expect and many of them probably didn't care for it.
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BassguyGhost Ride the DragonRegistered Userregular
I'm confused about what to do with this whole DLC thing. On one hand, I really like Dragon Age, and want to support more DA content. On the other hand, I think timed exclusivity is a SUPER shitty business decision whichever platform it is on, and I want to make a statement to EA that I don't support it.
My desires are in direct conflict. I want to signal that I want more DA content, but I also want to tell EA to knock off the exclusivity thing. I don't know what to do.
I'm confused about what to do with this whole DLC thing. On one hand, I really like Dragon Age, and want to support more DA content. On the other hand, I think timed exclusivity is a SUPER shitty business decision whichever platform it is on, and I want to make a statement to EA that I don't support it.
My desires are in direct conflict. I want to signal that I want more DA content, but I also want to tell EA to knock off the exclusivity thing. I don't know what to do.
Honestly...I don't know how successful you would be.
This fight was more or less lost last gen when most people showed they don't care.
I'm confused about what to do with this whole DLC thing. On one hand, I really like Dragon Age, and want to support more DA content. On the other hand, I think timed exclusivity is a SUPER shitty business decision whichever platform it is on, and I want to make a statement to EA that I don't support it.
My desires are in direct conflict. I want to signal that I want more DA content, but I also want to tell EA to knock off the exclusivity thing. I don't know what to do.
EA is a corporation, likes money, and in fact could be said to only even exist to make money. MS paid EA money for exclusive console rights. You not buying it makes no difference.
If you have a PC or a XBone and you want it just get it
I'm confused about what to do with this whole DLC thing. On one hand, I really like Dragon Age, and want to support more DA content. On the other hand, I think timed exclusivity is a SUPER shitty business decision whichever platform it is on, and I want to make a statement to EA that I don't support it.
My desires are in direct conflict. I want to signal that I want more DA content, but I also want to tell EA to knock off the exclusivity thing. I don't know what to do.
EA is a corporation, likes money, and in fact could be said to only even exist to make money. MS paid EA money for exclusive console rights. You not buying it makes no difference.
If you have a PC or a XBone and you want it just get it
I do have a (slightly older) gaming PC that will absolutely run DA:I, but I bought the game on the PS4, and I definitely don't want to buy the game again.
And while ONE PERSON not buying something doesn't rate to them, enough people not buying it would totally make a difference. It's like supporting a podcast or public radio with $20. Your $20 doesn't do jack squat, but the $20 of enough people can make a huge difference.
It also wouldn't be the first time I refused to buy something out of principle — not out of a practical threat of a boycott.
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DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
That's kind of what I'm saying though.
Last gen...most people kind of just shrugged. And I doubt it will be that different this time around.
Posts
Hardcore PC RPG people aren't enough to support a game at the level EA and Activision are playing at.
You'll note that the market has now shifted again and Inquisition has gone back the other direction a bit
Not saying that DA2 was that much better but...eh at least it I found it a bit more fun.
That said, I also have problems with DAI's combat. It straddles this weird line between action and topdown strategy and I don't feel like either are being done as well as they could be.
DA2 was the the only DA combat I actually enjoyed.
DA1 2.53 X360 + 1.63 PS3 + 0.51 PC = 4.67m
DA2 1.09 X360 + 0.79 PS3 + 0.62 PC = 2.41m
DA1 - Metacritic - (PC) 91/100 - (PS3) 87/100 - (X360) 86/100
DA2 - Metacritic - (PC) 82/100 - (PS3) 82/100 - (X360) 79/100
Obviously not a perfect comparison, but looking at available sales figures it sold about half as well and got ~10% lower review scores. Either way you look at it, it was clearly a step in the wrong direction.
Penny Arcade Rockstar Social Club / This is why I despise cyclists
Of course, DAI was worse at 2/3 of those issues, but somehow that wasn't anywhere near as big an issue :rotate:
Either way, i love me some DA2, f the haters
DA:I a lot of the times the enemies are just sitting there...waiting to be slaughtered by your party.
But I don't think it's safe to say that a proper release in DA2's style wouldn't do well. If they had more time and budget on DA2, I am willing to bet the biggest issues would have been reduced if not completely solved.
Penny Arcade Rockstar Social Club / This is why I despise cyclists
There are definitely waves at points in Inquisition. I'm only twenty hours in, and they seem to be mostly in the on-rails main quest missions. That aim-the-catapult section is a notable one.
All and all, and this is from the perspective of people who aren't Bioware or Baldur's Gate fans. DA3 is probably the first Dragon Age game that I have seen garner a lot of interest outside of either or those groups.
So...its kind of its own beast.
All fade rifts.
Although sometimes the monster have a hard time aggro'ing anyone if the player controlled character is stealth.
So theyre back to just chilling out
So what your saying is that it's a sequel.
Edit: Like I would say DA1 and DA2 were both very focused dungeon crawler-y experiences.
DA3 was more open...which is why I think there were a lot of problems with the cinematic presentation.
they made DA3 after seeing the response to 2. If they had time and budget 2 would have been 2 but with more environments
WHAT WAIT NO NO AHH I AM NOT PREPARED
I had largely zero interest in Baldur's Gate and Neverwinter Nights, but KotOR was a huge deal for me, and sold me on the BioWare house style.
"All and all, and this is from the perspective of people who aren't Bioware or Baldur's Gate fans. DA3 is probably the first Dragon Age game that I have seen garner a lot of interest outside of either or those groups."
I think that confused me, specifically. I thought you were saying that it was the first BioWare game that garnered interest in those groups.
This. DA:I suffers from MMO-style enemy placement and AI. Most enemies are in small groups that wander randomly and have a pretty small aggro radius.
It's like the designers were trying to recreate the worst aspects of WoW/TOR trash mob combat.
If anything, I think a lot of people went into Origins after Mass Effect not knowing what to expect and many of them probably didn't care for it.
My desires are in direct conflict. I want to signal that I want more DA content, but I also want to tell EA to knock off the exclusivity thing. I don't know what to do.
Honestly...I don't know how successful you would be.
This fight was more or less lost last gen when most people showed they don't care.
Hell, I am one of those people. >_> <_<
3DS: 1607-3034-6970
I mean, not the PAID part of the timed exclusivity, but that's certainly implied.
ETA: 360 and PS3 are getting it later as well as PS4. Which is... not particularly surprising.
If you have a PC or a XBone and you want it just get it
NOTICED SOMETHING I MISSED (late spoilers)
seriously what the fuck leliana
turn in your badge and your murder knife
you're a loose cannon
Timed exclusive.
EA and MS have had this buddy buddy thing going on since this gen was announced.
And while ONE PERSON not buying something doesn't rate to them, enough people not buying it would totally make a difference. It's like supporting a podcast or public radio with $20. Your $20 doesn't do jack squat, but the $20 of enough people can make a huge difference.
It also wouldn't be the first time I refused to buy something out of principle — not out of a practical threat of a boycott.
Last gen...most people kind of just shrugged. And I doubt it will be that different this time around.
Exactly, It's the FO3 of the series. Lots of people argue about whether 1 or 2 are better, but 3 is a completely different genre altogether
(and obsidian should really be hired to do a sequel)