Playing more with Zagara.
70% win rate so far.
In a game with no wards, the amount of vision control you get just by picking this champ is completely overpowered.
I predict massive nerfs as soon as the Koreans get their hands on her.
That said, I'm not super enthusiastic about her talent progression.
Playing more with Zagara.
70% win rate so far.
In a game with no wards, the amount of vision control you get just by picking this champ is completely overpowered.
I predict massive nerfs as soon as the Koreans get their hands on her.
That said, I'm not super enthusiastic about her talent progression.
There will not be any nerfs to Zagara. She's been in the game for like 8 months now. She's fine.
Vision is always useful but for some reason I don't feel that it's as huge as it is in dota 2 or lol. Zagara's creep tumors ability would proabbly be way overpowered in dota2
Overall level of play is much, much lower. At least for the moment.
The power of vision control wasn't well understood in the early days of DOTA or League, either.
HotS will probably get there eventually.
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The Escape Goatincorrigible ruminantthey/themRegistered Userregular
Vision is always useful but for some reason I don't feel that it's as huge as it is in dota 2 or lol. Zagara's creep tumors ability would proabbly be way overpowered in dota2
Vision isn't so big because you almost always know (or rather have a good guess) where the enemy is. Either they're in lane or they're mercing (or coming to gank you). Except on Blackheart's, because of the 'always on' objective (which I really dislike).
I think a reason for the lessened importance of vision is that in HotS getting ganked or caught out of position is less costly. you lose a few seconds unless it's lategame (at which point you should pretty much always be grouping anyways) and you give a little bit of XP. In Dota you give more significant xp I think, you lose gold, and the game can snowball much more easily so every death counts.
Kai_SanCommonly known as Klineshrike!Registered Userregular
I think it also has to do with the impact mounting has. In LoL at least, if you get caught and you arent at the advantage its GG. In HOTS, if you have any CC or escape tool you run around a corner, mount and you are safe.
I straight up had the weirdest match ever. It was on Garden Terror and I collected all the little seeds and my team just completely ignored the big terrors. But so did the other team. So my team pushed all the way to their keeps and finally at level 15 I went and solo'd the two terrors to get the rest of the seeds and pushed to the core with it. I...I mean...I don't understand? I asked them several times if they were ignoring the terrors for some reason I didn't understand and no one ever responded. It was like the objective didn't exist for either team...
This isn't as weird as you'd think imo.
I was literally coming in here to post about how Garden Terror is the worst map based solely on the fact that the flood of newbies just fundamentally don't get the map at all in my experience.
Like, I spend most Garden Terror games these fast few weeks screaming "Get the fucking Seeds, get the Terror. What is wrong with you people?" in chat because people just do not fucking do it. They don't get that killing the big terrors is important cause that's where all the seeds are. And I don't get why. It's like because you have to team up but not to team fight it breaks people's brains.
And it used to be uncommon but since release it's been almost every single game.
Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
I guess I don't fully understand the "blizzard thinks you are rank whatever" so the points you get are adjusted. losses in HL lose me a lot of points, wins don't get me the same amount of positive points.
maybe someone can enlighten
is it based on MMR from doing quick matches?
As far as I could tell when they first introduced HL, QM MMR does not affect HL MMR in any way. Still, the rank points you get in HL is affected by your hidden HL MMR. I'm almost certain that you can get to Rank 1 as long as your win % in HL is over 50%
According to the game itself, each rank is supposed to represent 2% of the playerbase.
So if you Rank 30 you are in the top 60% and if you are rank 1 you are in the top 2%.
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
Frankly, they should only do the free rotation lock-out for QM and HL, not for vs AI.
I can understand trying to minimize the impact of "difficult" heroes on newer players since it can make the experience frustrating for both the player and their team mates (which can exacerbate the impact), but not for VS AI.
Anyway, get yo account level up!
The talent gating is still stupid regardless of account level.
Talent gating is the worst.
"Oh here try out this new champ. Hope you like playing a gimped version of them because we've locked away their best talent builds."
And I've only been dealing with it with a huge XP bonus. I can't imagine how annoying it would be to have to deal with this for more than 1-2 games. Would it be that hard for Blizzard to highlight "recommended" talents for new players?
This is the same company that limited us mouth breathing cavemen to 9 decks in hearthstone so we don't bruise our brains too much keeping track of everything.
To be fair, 9 decks is 8 more than I can keep up with.
Frankly, they should only do the free rotation lock-out for QM and HL, not for vs AI.
I can understand trying to minimize the impact of "difficult" heroes on newer players since it can make the experience frustrating for both the player and their team mates (which can exacerbate the impact), but not for VS AI.
Anyway, get yo account level up!
The talent gating is still stupid regardless of account level.
Talent gating is the worst.
"Oh here try out this new champ. Hope you like playing a gimped version of them because we've locked away their best talent builds."
And I've only been dealing with it with a huge XP bonus. I can't imagine how annoying it would be to have to deal with this for more than 1-2 games. Would it be that hard for Blizzard to highlight "recommended" talents for new players?
This is the same company that limited us mouth breathing cavemen to 9 decks in hearthstone so we don't bruise our brains too much keeping track of everything.
To be fair, 9 decks is 8 more than I can keep up with.
What rank are you playing at that it's so miserable?
Haven't played in a while, so at 25. Got matched with a warlock who dropped the G vs G minion that gained attack each round, then the one that had taunt and can't be targeted, and couldn't get any of my lower cost cards in hand until he had a board full of minions.
General rule of thumb for me in Hearthstone is no matter what cards I have in my deck to handle a specific situation, I'll draw every other card first, which is why I quit playing it the first time.
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The Escape Goatincorrigible ruminantthey/themRegistered Userregular
Simply quit if you get Rag.
If you get Nef, you should win in a short time.
Get yo mount!
Remember that you need to get a hero to level 20 before you can go into Tavern Brawl, so that's not too useful to people who've hardly touched hearthstone.
Playing more with Zagara.
70% win rate so far.
In a game with no wards, the amount of vision control you get just by picking this champ is completely overpowered.
I predict massive nerfs as soon as the Koreans get their hands on her.
That said, I'm not super enthusiastic about her talent progression.
Aside from what's already been said, there is counterplay to Zagara's creep in that aoes will damage/reveal it. So if you're diligent about it, you can really ruin a Zagara's day by killing all her creep. Not enough people do that, really. At least in solo queue, from what I've seen.
If Zagara were to get nerfed (and she won't, because she's fine), it wouldn't be due to her creep. It would be some other area, like maybe her Hydralisk damage is too high, or Devouring Maw needs a cooldown nerf or something like that. I'm not saying that should happen or anything, it shouldn't, but I was just giving some examples.
And all that aside, you say "as soon as the Koreans get their hands on her", but the thing is, NA are the ones leading the meta at the moment. EU has their own meta as well and they're close to NA's but still somewhat different... but from what I've seen the Asian meta is all over the place and not even close to NA's.
Overall level of play is much, much lower. At least for the moment.
The power of vision control wasn't well understood in the early days of DOTA or League, either.
HotS will probably get there eventually.
Overall level of play compared to what? League/Dota? I dunno, I think the proteams in Heroes are at a fantastic level of play. They've been playing since the beginning, since Tech Alpha started. Have you been watching the tournaments? I mean there's one happening on the 20th, should be a good watch cause there's 5 top teams. And like, 3 "who are these guys?" teams that kinda snuck their way in because the brackets weren't handled too well. But I digress.
Yeah, some heroes can just destroy Zagara's creep at little to no cost and faster then she can produce it. Really fucking annoying when you lane against those types.
Yeah, some heroes can just destroy Zagara's creep at little to no cost and faster then she can produce it. Really fucking annoying when you lane against those types.
Its also not difficult at all to deduce the tumor locations if you are near the edge of the coverage area. I will often spend the early game against Zagara just destroying her tumors and soaking if forced to lane against her since she's such a bully. Depriving her of creep for faster movement and health regeneration really puts a damper on her and makes her much easier to gank.
I like playing Hearthstone I just don't want to build a deck or grind for packs in order to do it. Tavern Brawl is wonderful though, would play it anyway.
Wow, just ran into literally the worst person I've ever encountered in HOTS.
He's playing Zeratul on Blackhearts. He's holding 6 coins and chases Brightwing right into her gate, with both towers up and gets destroyed, losing most of our coins. I go "Play more careful when you've got all those coins and don't chase into a tower".
This lead to just a flood of insults from him and then when I reported him and it blocked him, he spent the rest of the game just following me around in Stealth pinging me. Which sadly, there seems to be no way to block.
The whole team ends up reporting him after yelling at him to shut up and stop being such an immature asshole and one player even dropped to get away from it but there is no way to stop the pinging.
Just ... wow. I've encountered assholes in this game but nothing on that level of "I'm a 13 year old idiot".
kerrigan dies 6 times in 7 minutes, bitches about how we're terrible while never landing a single combo and she's so good and rank 10 so it must be our fault and our comp.
fuck people.
edit: really fucking tired of this packet loss bullshit to blizzard's servers. they need to figure their shit out.
Overall level of play is much, much lower. At least for the moment.
The power of vision control wasn't well understood in the early days of DOTA or League, either.
HotS will probably get there eventually.
The community already understands the importance of vision control; that's one of the primary reasons she's picked competitively. She's very common to see on Spider Tombs, for example, because a mid-lane Zagara can creep both turn-in areas, allowing her team the heads up it needs to maintain control of the gems. Proper management of the creep vision is absolutely the primary factor that differentiates great Zagara players from everyone else, because if you know what you're doing, you have advanced warning for incoming ganks, resource turn-ins, etc. And yes, in a game with no "wards", characters that can provide vision are very powerful. Let's not pretend that Zagara's the only character who does it, though: Brightwing, Malfurion, Raynor and Tychus can all use Scouting Drones; Kael'thas, Murky, Nazeebo and Uther all have access to Clairvoyance; Abathur can plant Toxic Nests (with potentially global range); Tassadar has Oracle; Nova and Zeratul can scout with their very presence, as they're permanently stealthed.
Zagara is powerful in the early game; she's the ultimate lane bully, with very high levels of self-sustain (I'd say only BW has her beat in this regard) and this makes her very effective on maps like Dragon Shrine. Its important to remember that she has no escapes, however (unless you count Nydas Network), and no crowd control (unless you count the Maw), to help her slip out of a gank. So positioning is very important on Zagara, because if you over-extend, you're vulnerable. At the same time, she has to over-extend to plant creep tumors in the most advantageous positions for her team, so you need to have a good sense of map awareness and timing to be successful.
She's a character that falls off pretty hard in the late-game, in my opinion, having no real burst damage. You also have to get dangerously close to the enemy team to summon in a Hydralisk, and while its a very effective skill in the early game because it will force one player to back away, its much less effective later on, when the rest of the target's team will just kill it. Now, don't misunderstand me -- I am in no way arguing that Zagara isn't a powerful, effective character; she's my most played hero, my second most successful hero (behind Brightwing), my profile avatar, my favorite master skin, etc. I love Zagara. I just want you to understand her limitations, as well as her strengths.
I found the whole "just wait until the Koreans get hold of her, then you guys will understand what I'm saying" comment to be a little insulting, by the way.
Posts
70% win rate so far.
In a game with no wards, the amount of vision control you get just by picking this champ is completely overpowered.
I predict massive nerfs as soon as the Koreans get their hands on her.
That said, I'm not super enthusiastic about her talent progression.
There will not be any nerfs to Zagara. She's been in the game for like 8 months now. She's fine.
She lacks burst and escape, and while she doesn't really fall off late game, she doesn't have the power boosts mosts assassins do
Battle.net: Fireflash#1425
Steam Friend code: 45386507
The power of vision control wasn't well understood in the early days of DOTA or League, either.
HotS will probably get there eventually.
Vision isn't so big because you almost always know (or rather have a good guess) where the enemy is. Either they're in lane or they're mercing (or coming to gank you). Except on Blackheart's, because of the 'always on' objective (which I really dislike).
I think a reason for the lessened importance of vision is that in HotS getting ganked or caught out of position is less costly. you lose a few seconds unless it's lategame (at which point you should pretty much always be grouping anyways) and you give a little bit of XP. In Dota you give more significant xp I think, you lose gold, and the game can snowball much more easily so every death counts.
Battle.net: Fireflash#1425
Steam Friend code: 45386507
Battle.net: Fireflash#1425
Steam Friend code: 45386507
This isn't as weird as you'd think imo.
I was literally coming in here to post about how Garden Terror is the worst map based solely on the fact that the flood of newbies just fundamentally don't get the map at all in my experience.
Like, I spend most Garden Terror games these fast few weeks screaming "Get the fucking Seeds, get the Terror. What is wrong with you people?" in chat because people just do not fucking do it. They don't get that killing the big terrors is important cause that's where all the seeds are. And I don't get why. It's like because you have to team up but not to team fight it breaks people's brains.
And it used to be uncommon but since release it's been almost every single game.
doh, you can't play as the butcher on the PTR
just the new battleground and balance patch and stuff
you keep all your progress/stuff you own from your regular account, but the shop is closed and you don't keep any exp or gold from the PTR
5-man premade is ez mode when you have Murky and Gazlowe
Right, @kime ?
( @kime still sucks)
Witty signature comment goes here...
wra
According to the game itself, each rank is supposed to represent 2% of the playerbase.
So if you Rank 30 you are in the top 60% and if you are rank 1 you are in the top 2%.
Streaming 8PST on weeknights
Awww, sadface.
But hey, that means we technically get early patch notes? Kinda?
mite b cool
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
We did an all-specialist after that. Owned the other team :P
3DS Friend Code: 3110-5393-4113
Steam profile
Me sorry.
Yeah, one game and I decided not touching that shit again.
Simply quit if you get Rag.
If you get Nef, you should win in a short time.
Get yo mount!
Witty signature comment goes here...
wra
Haven't played in a while, so at 25. Got matched with a warlock who dropped the G vs G minion that gained attack each round, then the one that had taunt and can't be targeted, and couldn't get any of my lower cost cards in hand until he had a board full of minions.
General rule of thumb for me in Hearthstone is no matter what cards I have in my deck to handle a specific situation, I'll draw every other card first, which is why I quit playing it the first time.
Remember that you need to get a hero to level 20 before you can go into Tavern Brawl, so that's not too useful to people who've hardly touched hearthstone.
Gamertag - Khraul
PSN - Razide6
100 wins, you can do it in brawl mode or arena or ranked I believe
Ugh... 11 matches under mah belt... I think I'll just buy a cyber wolf lol
Gamertag - Khraul
PSN - Razide6
Aside from what's already been said, there is counterplay to Zagara's creep in that aoes will damage/reveal it. So if you're diligent about it, you can really ruin a Zagara's day by killing all her creep. Not enough people do that, really. At least in solo queue, from what I've seen.
If Zagara were to get nerfed (and she won't, because she's fine), it wouldn't be due to her creep. It would be some other area, like maybe her Hydralisk damage is too high, or Devouring Maw needs a cooldown nerf or something like that. I'm not saying that should happen or anything, it shouldn't, but I was just giving some examples.
And all that aside, you say "as soon as the Koreans get their hands on her", but the thing is, NA are the ones leading the meta at the moment. EU has their own meta as well and they're close to NA's but still somewhat different... but from what I've seen the Asian meta is all over the place and not even close to NA's.
Overall level of play compared to what? League/Dota? I dunno, I think the proteams in Heroes are at a fantastic level of play. They've been playing since the beginning, since Tech Alpha started. Have you been watching the tournaments? I mean there's one happening on the 20th, should be a good watch cause there's 5 top teams. And like, 3 "who are these guys?" teams that kinda snuck their way in because the brackets weren't handled too well. But I digress.
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
They aren't asking you to do anything.
It's just a cross-promotional reward for Hearthstone players.
Its also not difficult at all to deduce the tumor locations if you are near the edge of the coverage area. I will often spend the early game against Zagara just destroying her tumors and soaking if forced to lane against her since she's such a bully. Depriving her of creep for faster movement and health regeneration really puts a damper on her and makes her much easier to gank.
i'm referring to the people trying to give helpful advice in this thread to someone who hates card games
He's playing Zeratul on Blackhearts. He's holding 6 coins and chases Brightwing right into her gate, with both towers up and gets destroyed, losing most of our coins. I go "Play more careful when you've got all those coins and don't chase into a tower".
This lead to just a flood of insults from him and then when I reported him and it blocked him, he spent the rest of the game just following me around in Stealth pinging me. Which sadly, there seems to be no way to block.
The whole team ends up reporting him after yelling at him to shut up and stop being such an immature asshole and one player even dropped to get away from it but there is no way to stop the pinging.
Just ... wow. I've encountered assholes in this game but nothing on that level of "I'm a 13 year old idiot".
fuck people.
edit: really fucking tired of this packet loss bullshit to blizzard's servers. they need to figure their shit out.
I am going to just collapse in a giggling fit when Butcher is broken as hell.
The community already understands the importance of vision control; that's one of the primary reasons she's picked competitively. She's very common to see on Spider Tombs, for example, because a mid-lane Zagara can creep both turn-in areas, allowing her team the heads up it needs to maintain control of the gems. Proper management of the creep vision is absolutely the primary factor that differentiates great Zagara players from everyone else, because if you know what you're doing, you have advanced warning for incoming ganks, resource turn-ins, etc. And yes, in a game with no "wards", characters that can provide vision are very powerful. Let's not pretend that Zagara's the only character who does it, though: Brightwing, Malfurion, Raynor and Tychus can all use Scouting Drones; Kael'thas, Murky, Nazeebo and Uther all have access to Clairvoyance; Abathur can plant Toxic Nests (with potentially global range); Tassadar has Oracle; Nova and Zeratul can scout with their very presence, as they're permanently stealthed.
Zagara is powerful in the early game; she's the ultimate lane bully, with very high levels of self-sustain (I'd say only BW has her beat in this regard) and this makes her very effective on maps like Dragon Shrine. Its important to remember that she has no escapes, however (unless you count Nydas Network), and no crowd control (unless you count the Maw), to help her slip out of a gank. So positioning is very important on Zagara, because if you over-extend, you're vulnerable. At the same time, she has to over-extend to plant creep tumors in the most advantageous positions for her team, so you need to have a good sense of map awareness and timing to be successful.
She's a character that falls off pretty hard in the late-game, in my opinion, having no real burst damage. You also have to get dangerously close to the enemy team to summon in a Hydralisk, and while its a very effective skill in the early game because it will force one player to back away, its much less effective later on, when the rest of the target's team will just kill it. Now, don't misunderstand me -- I am in no way arguing that Zagara isn't a powerful, effective character; she's my most played hero, my second most successful hero (behind Brightwing), my profile avatar, my favorite master skin, etc. I love Zagara. I just want you to understand her limitations, as well as her strengths.
I found the whole "just wait until the Koreans get hold of her, then you guys will understand what I'm saying" comment to be a little insulting, by the way.