If you want to really look at Mystified, then it's probably a guaranteed extra pulse or two in every fight, which is quite a bit of extra healing.
Which is nowhere near Gust of Healing in terms of burst, and IMHO less powerful than Regenerative rains.
"The western world sips from a poisonous cocktail: Polarisation, populism, protectionism and post-truth"
-Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
If you want to really look at Mystified, then it's probably a guaranteed extra pulse or two in every fight, which is quite a bit of extra healing.
Which is nowhere near Gust of Healing in terms of burst, and IMHO less powerful than Regenerative rains.
Yeaaaaaah, but those aren't in the game anymore, next patch. Can't compare those to each other. Would be applicable otherwise, but yknow.
Now, you can compare Mistified to Phase Shield. I think Phase Shield has way more value than 1 extra pulse per teamfight. Phase Shield is CHUNKY (200 +50 per level, shields for 1200 at level 20). You'll be able to pop them out more often with Hyper Shift, and because they last 20 seconds you might even be able to get two out before/during a teamfight.
I mean I guess we'll see, right? Possible that Mistified is good, it's hard to judge it simply on paper.
Also, people good at illidan, tell me how to play him. I think I have talents down, but I'm unsure on how I should be engaging in teamfights.
Also, does that backflip have iframes? I thought I remember someone mentioning it did?
*raises hand* ooh me me pick me put me in coach
Alright, so let's talk shop about Illidan. First and foremost, here's the build: http://www.heroesfire.com/hots/talent-calculator/illidan#l7Wr You can sub out Sixth Sense for Giant Killer if there's no bursty ability-damage based Heroes on the enemy team. And you can sub out Stoneskin for Blood for Blood if you don't need the extra survivability.
So let's talk engaging. Number one thing to remember is to follow the rules of engagement. You're still just one person, you can't afford to be diving into the entire enemy team. You're a squishy Assassin, not a beefy Warrior. Now, that aside, you want to be patient. Wait for someone on the enemy team to overstep their bounds and punish them for it by going in on them. Alternatively, wait for your tank to engage, then follow up. Pick a priority target and stick to them like glue. Your team needs to be backing you up, otherwise they'll just focus you and blow you up. When it's getting too hot, use your W to get out. That's the basic flow, though. Engage, stay in as long as possible, use W to get out before you get blown up. In general I try to engage with W, since that immediately puts up the autoattack buff. Q is also fine to engage with if they're keeping distance or if you're far away.
You should pop E whenever you're being focused, but save it for when the time is right. Don't pop it "just because". With Sixth Sense it becomes a great tool against heroes like say, Kael'thas or Jaina. Blizzard or Flamestrike about to hit? Pop that E. W should be used either every 4 seconds or to reposition/chase down, but also know when to hold it in case you need to escape. Q should be held onto, for the most part. Don't spam it! It interrupts your autoattacks and it doesn't really do much damage, so it's not worth spamming. Q should be used to reposition yourself in the fight (bodyblocks, getting closer to your team, etc), to disengage, or to chase down. Illidan's abilities in general shouldn't really be spammed, and it takes a bit to really ingrain that.
Metamorphosis is generally your best tool of engagement since it makes you such a threat. Bonus health, aoe damage, and delicious attackspeed. You can pretty much just blow it when an opportunity presents itself, or to follow up with your team or whatever. It's great, use it lots. But also don't be afraid to use it defensively, to escape.
Also yes, I do believe Q has some iframes in there. Moreover, it makes you Unstoppable, so if you have good reactions you can avoid a fair amount of CC with it.
I also wanna touch on the level 20 talents real quick. So straight up, nothing beats out Perma-Meta. Nothing. Nexus Blades are okay but they don't compete with Perma-Meta. Neither does Bolt. Perma-Meta gives you 30% attackspeed and 50% CC reduction, and that lasts forever. You can still re-cast Meta to gain the temporary bonus health and all that too, but the health isn't permanent.
Also in general, remember that the W gives you a big boost to your damage (via the AA buff and immolation) but not that much from the damage of the ability itself, so you don't want to be spamming it. Use it to reposition or save it to escape and then otherwise just pop it every 4 seconds as the buff is about to run out.
Also to harass in lane, Q, a few smacks and then W out (with Evasion used to avoid damage) is a decent harass tool, though depending on who you are facing off against.
Terrible Awful No Good Matchups:
Johanna - Just. Nope. Don't even bother. Between Iron Skin and Shield Glare, good fucking luck ever doing anything to her.
Li Li - Similar reasons as Johanna, but less so. Her Blind is annoying, she can heal up for days, and she can outrun you due to Fast Feet. Quite killable in the right circumstances though.
Brightwing - That's a nice Metamorphosis you have there. Oh look, you're a piggles now!
Tychus - Overkill, Grenade, Laser Drill. Avoid at all costs.
Muradin - 50% less attack speed, ALL THE TIME.
Chen - Shields and shields and shields and shields and...
Sonya - Slam hurts. Slam cannot be Evaded. Sonya is ouchy times.
Azmodan - Laser HURTS.
Uther - Stun Stun Imposing Presence Divine Shield laughs in your face as you're eating cement.
Tassadar - Shields 4ever. Will E away from you pretty easily.
Murky - Dead serious. Murky is great vs Illidan and he will ruin your day.
Generally most Tanks, honestly, especially if they have Imposing Presence.
Special mention to Falstad who beats you out Early Game really hard. But the tables start to turn the later the game goes.
Easy Pickin's "Yes Please Kill Me" Matchups:
Nova - Lol. Just chase her down.
Nazeebo - Zombie Wall ain't shit. Just corner him, he has no escapes.
Tyrande - Avoid her stun and you're golden.
Malfurion - Looool.
Raynor - Be careful if he has Banshees, but otherwise a free kill.
Kael'thas - Be wary of his stun+redonkulous damage output, otherwise free kill.
Jaina - Same deal, though careful if she has Sprint up.
Zagara - Generally a free kill, but be wary of her summons.
Sylvanas - Can't do shit if her E's down. Be especially careful of Wailing Arrow though, that will turn the fight around entirely.
Ok... so I'm really sure that BW is a great hero... but oh my god do I hate playing as her. I've played her almost to 5 and I've never felt like I'm contributing less than when I'm playing her. A few matches with her and I'm genuinely frustrated with this game for like the second time ever.
I don't even know... maybe it's just that I'm playing entirely with pubs who can't capitalize on poly's and Ults... even using the builds in this thread I kinda feel like I'm just floating around polymorphing things.. dropping tiny damage with flare and pixie dusting people when they look like they're in trouble.
I just don't feel like I'm bringing anything to a match. Hard to explain.
On Aba I know when I've saved a squishy, or tagged someone with a stab for a kill... On Falstad I know when I'm smashing other players or flying in for a good kill/to defend on objective... on Malf I feel like I'm actually healing people and disrupting the other team with moonfire and roots. With Murky I had terrorize the enemy by being murky...
BW I just can't get a feel on what I'm supposed to be doing all the time.... Her playstyle feels really obscure... Maybe I need a general play guide lol
Li Li - Similar reasons as Johanna, but less so. Her Blind is annoying, she can heal up for days, and she can outrun you due to Fast Feet. Quite killable in the right circumstances though.
She becomes significantly worse for Illidan next patch, now that blinds will be duration based rather than charge based. Imagine being blinded for three seconds, hitting her for two, then blinded for three seconds, repeat. Thanks, Kung Fu Hustle!
Yeah, man. No problem. Look, when Brightwing's played properly, she's essentially invincible in lane. Almost nobody can out-harass your self-heal. They'll use their abilities to try and zone you out, but that costs them mana, and your healing costs you nothing. You will win any kind of sustained engagement in lane. This is especially true if you have a partner in lane. Even if you get low on health and mana, just hearth back to base, regenerate, and then immediately Phase Shift back into lane. You have no downtime, and enemies basically waste resources trying to fuck with you.
I almost always take Bribe at level 1, because I like denying enemy teams access to their mercs. The trick is to use the ability smartly -- you can't just go off as soon as you have 40 stacks and expect to take a camp without any issues. Wait until you know a Tribute's about to spawn, let's say. You have a count-down timer stating that it will spawn in 15 seconds. That's typically your opportunity; everyone on the map is about to head to that Tribute, meaning:
A) nobody is likely to gank you when you pop the siege giants right next to their base, and nobody is going to be in a position to deal with those mercs for at least a minute or so.
Brightwing has global presence, so a play like this doesn't put your team at risk the way it would if, let's say Nazeebo tried the same play. As soon as the camp's yours, just Phase Shift up to your allies.
If you aren't comfortable pushing a lot of extra buttons, maybe put off learning BW until you are. Or, try to think of playing her as an exercise in learning to use more buttons. You're likely to end up with at least 5 additional buttons that will get used constantly; that's 1, 2, 3, D and Z (Bribe, Protective Shield, Storm Shield, Gust of Healing and Phase Shield). Every single one of those abilities is amazing, and are a huge part of what makes Brightwing (at least for the next 9 days or so) the top-tier support hero that she is.
With regard to Polymorph and Pixie Dust, obviously a lot is about to change in the upcoming patch. But in general, right now, you should be using your Polymorph constantly to peel for your allies, set up ganks, and disrupt enemy abilities. The trick is knowing when is the most advantageous time to use it. I very commonly use Pixie Dust solely for the speed bonus. Its a very versatile skill; you can use it as an escape, a defensive bonus against right-clicks or to help an ally chase down a fleeing target.
I hated BW when I first started playing her. I actually felt exactly the same way that you feel now. She's a very intimidating character with a high skill cap, and if you aren't capable of utilizing her to her fullest, she's going to feel really frustrating. But just keep with it. Brightwing is amazing, and she's practically invincible once you know what you're doing.
If you need any really specific advice, like how she's supposed to play on certain maps, or with / against certain comps, I'd be happy to help you out. Just let me know.
Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
Also, people good at illidan, tell me how to play him. I think I have talents down, but I'm unsure on how I should be engaging in teamfights.
Also, does that backflip have iframes? I thought I remember someone mentioning it did?
Don't use Q unless you are in pursuit, W will increase your DPS. But both reset your autoattack, which is your primary source of damage. Get good at body blocking, and know that you retreat by using Q on enemy walls and enemy minions.
I have also used Q on buildings in order to get to the other side IMMEDIATELY and escape enemies.
Don't overextend, and use your dodge ability to avoid Turret Fire and Fort Fire. Very handy if you push a lane all the and want to get that finishing hit, you can dodge those blasts and make them waste ammo.
Also, you can hit one turret if it's out of ammo if you position yourself as far away from the other turret as possible and it still has ammo.
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
Yeah, man. No problem. Look, when Brightwing's played properly, she's essentially invincible in lane. Almost nobody can out-harass your self-heal. They'll use their abilities to try and zone you out, but that costs them mana, and your healing costs you nothing. You will win any kind of sustained engagement in lane. This is especially true if you have a partner in lane. Even if you get low on health and mana, just hearth back to base, regenerate, and then immediately Phase Shift back into lane. You have no downtime, and enemies basically waste resources trying to fuck with you.
I almost always take Bribe at level 1, because I like denying enemy teams access to their mercs. The trick is to use the ability smartly -- you can't just go off as soon as you have 40 stacks and expect to take a camp without any issues. Wait until you know a Tribute's about to spawn, let's say. You have a count-down timer stating that it will spawn in 15 seconds. That's typically your opportunity; everyone on the map is about to head to that Tribute, meaning:
A) nobody is likely to gank you when you pop the siege giants right next to their base, and nobody is going to be in a position to deal with those mercs for at least a minute or so.
Brightwing has global presence, so a play like this doesn't put your team at risk the way it would if, let's say Nazeebo tried the same play. As soon as the camp's yours, just Phase Shift up to your allies.
If you aren't comfortable pushing a lot of extra buttons, maybe put off learning BW until you are. Or, try to think of playing her as an exercise in learning to use more buttons. You're likely to end up with at least 5 additional buttons that will get used constantly; that's 1, 2, 3, D and Z (Bribe, Protective Shield, Storm Shield, Gust of Healing and Phase Shield). Every single one of those abilities is amazing, and are a huge part of what makes Brightwing (at least for the next 9 days or so) the top-tier support hero that she is.
With regard to Polymorph and Pixie Dust, obviously a lot is about to change in the upcoming patch. But in general, right now, you should be using your Polymorph constantly to peel for your allies, set up ganks, and disrupt enemy abilities. The trick is knowing when is the most advantageous time to use it. I very commonly use Pixie Dust solely for the speed bonus. Its a very versatile skill; you can use it as an escape, a defensive bonus against right-clicks or to help an ally chase down a fleeing target.
I hated BW when I first started playing her. I actually felt exactly the same way that you feel now. She's a very intimidating character with a high skill cap, and if you aren't capable of utilizing her to her fullest, she's going to feel really frustrating. But just keep with it. Brightwing is amazing, and she's practically invincible once you know what you're doing.
If you need any really specific advice, like how she's supposed to play on certain maps, or with / against certain comps, I'd be happy to help you out. Just let me know.
There's some pretty basic stuff here that had never occurred to me.... hearthing/teleporting for lane presence and the speed boost on pixie dust are the most glaring.
I'll give her another go or two and see how it goes.
Don't get too comfortable with any BW playstyles right now. If the datamined patch notes are to be believed, she's getting a complete rework in the next patch.
I don't understand why they are making such drastic changes to Brightwing. Yes, she's a good healer, but I would not call her broken. She's in the top 3, definitely, but I would say she's equally viable to Uther and Rehgar.
I love me some Brightwing, and I don't want to see her changed. The last time they drastically changed the kit of my beloved hero (Tyrael) it put him near the bottom of the pile. Sure, people use Tyrael in certain dive comps against mage-heavy teams, but he's still a pretty garbage hero except in a few fringe cases. I don't want that to happen to Brightwing. I don't want her to be a terrible healer except against fringe comps.
So, I finally got enough xp to try hero league this time. I've never drafted before and this is the only moba I played more than 1 game of. I have about 14 heroes (bought the nexus pack after having fun) and most of them are level 5 for the gold. Also unlocked sylvanas and someone else.
anyways.
Thought for sure I'd hate it. And I probably will, but people were talking during the draft, I was just going to pick anub because no one was a tank, someone asked for support, so I went Uther. My god, coordination was so much fun. I'm not sure how you brag about games but it was 12 minutes long, we didn't even hit level 20. it was on mines, and by the first golem (70/30) they had like 7 combined deaths. I didn't die at all and ended something like 27/0.
That first golem made it to their core.
+3
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The Escape Goatincorrigible ruminantthey/themRegistered Userregular
I don't understand why they are making such drastic changes to Brightwing. Yes, she's a good healer, but I would not call her broken. She's in the top 3, definitely, but I would say she's equally viable to Uther and Rehgar.
I love me some Brightwing, and I don't want to see her changed. The last time they drastically changed the kit of my beloved hero (Tyrael) it put him near the bottom of the pile. Sure, people use Tyrael in certain dive comps against mage-heavy teams, but he's still a pretty garbage hero except in a few fringe cases. I don't want that to happen to Brightwing. I don't want her to be a terrible healer except against fringe comps.
It makes her a hell of a lot more approachable for new players. Now she doesn't have a thousand extra generic activated abilities to use to be effective.
I don't understand why they are making such drastic changes to Brightwing. Yes, she's a good healer, but I would not call her broken. She's in the top 3, definitely, but I would say she's equally viable to Uther and Rehgar.
I love me some Brightwing, and I don't want to see her changed. The last time they drastically changed the kit of my beloved hero (Tyrael) it put him near the bottom of the pile. Sure, people use Tyrael in certain dive comps against mage-heavy teams, but he's still a pretty garbage hero except in a few fringe cases. I don't want that to happen to Brightwing. I don't want her to be a terrible healer except against fringe comps.
It makes her a hell of a lot more approachable for new players. Now she doesn't have a thousand extra generic activated abilities to use to be effective.
I don't understand why they are making such drastic changes to Brightwing. Yes, she's a good healer, but I would not call her broken. She's in the top 3, definitely, but I would say she's equally viable to Uther and Rehgar.
Because all her builds (or the variations on her one build) are all just "Pick the generic extra ability talents when they are available". Which means her BW-specific talents were shit and needed to be looked at.
Like, note that the rework eliminated most of her generic talents and gave her a bunch of new ways to buff her existing skills. Which are pretty cool imo.
And they seem to have nerfed her burst healing. (though Manic Pixie and the Phase Shift talents arguably can mitigate this)
Guess I've been playing Brightwing wrong this whole time. I take literally none of the generic talents. Not even one.
I was taking talents to improve her shield, her trait, and at 16 I put slow on polymorph.
I also have a positive win rate with Brightwing and consider her my best character, so I'll just go ahead and say it. I don't think any of the generic talents were mandatory.
1 4 and 20 are generally the talents where you always take generics. Cleanse at 7 would have been good in a world where Gust didn't exist. Sprint at 13 is useful, but I don't take it 100% like bribe/scouting drone or envenom/shield at 1/4.
And then rewind at 20 because rewind, or storm shield if i need even more shields.
going on 8 minutes on mines against a brightwing tass and the game has been over since the beginning but doubly so since the DC. why am i being trapped in this game to waste my relatively limited hots time on babysitting a bot who gets killed every 5 seconds.
1 4 and 20 are generally the talents where you always take generics. Cleanse at 7 would have been good in a world where Gust didn't exist. Sprint at 13 is useful, but I don't take it 100% like bribe/scouting drone or envenom/shield at 1/4.
And then rewind at 20 because rewind, or storm shield if i need even more shields.
Yup. All the builds/guides I've seen pick mostly generics. Just look at what people are talking about above wrt learning to use the number-key skills with BW.
And the alternative to bribe at 13 (the shield on Phase Shift) is one thing they super-buffed via supporting talents. It's now looking like a REALLY good thing to build around.
Sometimes I am so goddamn bad at Kerrigan. I swear there's a lag issue or some sort of universal cooldown going on that makes getting that combo off a 50/50 chance at best.
going on 8 minutes on mines against a brightwing tass and the game has been over since the beginning but doubly so since the DC. why am i being trapped in this game to waste my relatively limited hots time on babysitting a bot who gets killed every 5 seconds.
It goes stun, then pull. Getting the location takes some time to get use to.
Your Q isn't for an engage it is to finish.
Both her ults are excellent. Choose based on your team. Lots of ways to keep the enemy grouped get the storm. Need another good body to chase off a Jaina? Get the ultra.
Some days you will have about 8 buttons to press because of the generics.
Envenom, Sprint, BfB and Blink are all fantastic on her.
You are not an auto attack assassin. Don't act like one.
Watching chu8 stream Kerrigan is a great way to see how you should be playing Kerrigan. Now actually pulling it off like he does is another matter that will remain forever out of my grasp.
Yeah, I just played some Valla matches instead for my "Assassin" Daily. Much more my style, though understanding when I can damage someone vs when I can barely dent them is not something I have figured out yet.
Ok... so I'm really sure that BW is a great hero... but oh my god do I hate playing as her. I've played her almost to 5 and I've never felt like I'm contributing less than when I'm playing her. A few matches with her and I'm genuinely frustrated with this game for like the second time ever.
My top tips are:
1. Harrass a lot. Your healing is 0 mana, so you win every even trade.
2. Polymorph and Emerald Wind are huge at both offense and protection.
3. Healing with her requires being within range when the timer goes off. It's more of a positioning thing than a click on an ally to heal thing.
4. Global presence is awesome.
I find her quite effective, and she is tied for my favorite support with Rehgar.
Ok... so I'm really sure that BW is a great hero... but oh my god do I hate playing as her. I've played her almost to 5 and I've never felt like I'm contributing less than when I'm playing her. A few matches with her and I'm genuinely frustrated with this game for like the second time ever.
My top tips are:
1. Harrass a lot. Your healing is 0 mana, so you win every even trade.
2. Polymorph and Emerald Wind are huge at both offense and protection.
3. Healing with her requires being within range when the timer goes off. It's more of a positioning thing than a click on an ally to heal thing.
4. Global presence is awesome.
I find her quite effective, and she is tied for my favorite support with Rehgar.
Had a quickmatch last night where our team was ETC (me), Jaina, Kaelthas, brightwing, zeratul.
In the first 30 seconds the Kaelthas went down (not uncommon) and the jaina said "gg this team suck" and went afk in base.
She finally DC'ed, while the rest of us are puttin' the pedal down getting work done. Then she comes back and is like "LOL, why bother" while I'm Moshpit combo-ing with Kael for mega kills and scoopin up all the skulls.
By the time we WIN she says "lol miracle" and I just wanted to throttle the whole internet with my grubby tauren hands.
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Which is nowhere near Gust of Healing in terms of burst, and IMHO less powerful than Regenerative rains.
-Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
Yeaaaaaah, but those aren't in the game anymore, next patch. Can't compare those to each other. Would be applicable otherwise, but yknow.
Now, you can compare Mistified to Phase Shield. I think Phase Shield has way more value than 1 extra pulse per teamfight. Phase Shield is CHUNKY (200 +50 per level, shields for 1200 at level 20). You'll be able to pop them out more often with Hyper Shift, and because they last 20 seconds you might even be able to get two out before/during a teamfight.
I mean I guess we'll see, right? Possible that Mistified is good, it's hard to judge it simply on paper.
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
Definitely not comparable to Gust of Healing cause it's not meant to be a burst talent.
It's a replacement for Regenerative Rains and it's slightly less powerful if you are blowing things on cooldown.
I think a Phase Shift build looks alot more promising with this version though.
*raises hand* ooh me me pick me put me in coach
Alright, so let's talk shop about Illidan. First and foremost, here's the build: http://www.heroesfire.com/hots/talent-calculator/illidan#l7Wr You can sub out Sixth Sense for Giant Killer if there's no bursty ability-damage based Heroes on the enemy team. And you can sub out Stoneskin for Blood for Blood if you don't need the extra survivability.
So let's talk engaging. Number one thing to remember is to follow the rules of engagement. You're still just one person, you can't afford to be diving into the entire enemy team. You're a squishy Assassin, not a beefy Warrior. Now, that aside, you want to be patient. Wait for someone on the enemy team to overstep their bounds and punish them for it by going in on them. Alternatively, wait for your tank to engage, then follow up. Pick a priority target and stick to them like glue. Your team needs to be backing you up, otherwise they'll just focus you and blow you up. When it's getting too hot, use your W to get out. That's the basic flow, though. Engage, stay in as long as possible, use W to get out before you get blown up. In general I try to engage with W, since that immediately puts up the autoattack buff. Q is also fine to engage with if they're keeping distance or if you're far away.
You should pop E whenever you're being focused, but save it for when the time is right. Don't pop it "just because". With Sixth Sense it becomes a great tool against heroes like say, Kael'thas or Jaina. Blizzard or Flamestrike about to hit? Pop that E. W should be used either every 4 seconds or to reposition/chase down, but also know when to hold it in case you need to escape. Q should be held onto, for the most part. Don't spam it! It interrupts your autoattacks and it doesn't really do much damage, so it's not worth spamming. Q should be used to reposition yourself in the fight (bodyblocks, getting closer to your team, etc), to disengage, or to chase down. Illidan's abilities in general shouldn't really be spammed, and it takes a bit to really ingrain that.
Metamorphosis is generally your best tool of engagement since it makes you such a threat. Bonus health, aoe damage, and delicious attackspeed. You can pretty much just blow it when an opportunity presents itself, or to follow up with your team or whatever. It's great, use it lots. But also don't be afraid to use it defensively, to escape.
Also yes, I do believe Q has some iframes in there. Moreover, it makes you Unstoppable, so if you have good reactions you can avoid a fair amount of CC with it.
I also wanna touch on the level 20 talents real quick. So straight up, nothing beats out Perma-Meta. Nothing. Nexus Blades are okay but they don't compete with Perma-Meta. Neither does Bolt. Perma-Meta gives you 30% attackspeed and 50% CC reduction, and that lasts forever. You can still re-cast Meta to gain the temporary bonus health and all that too, but the health isn't permanent.
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
Also to harass in lane, Q, a few smacks and then W out (with Evasion used to avoid damage) is a decent harass tool, though depending on who you are facing off against.
Terrible Awful No Good Matchups:
Johanna - Just. Nope. Don't even bother. Between Iron Skin and Shield Glare, good fucking luck ever doing anything to her.
Li Li - Similar reasons as Johanna, but less so. Her Blind is annoying, she can heal up for days, and she can outrun you due to Fast Feet. Quite killable in the right circumstances though.
Brightwing - That's a nice Metamorphosis you have there. Oh look, you're a piggles now!
Tychus - Overkill, Grenade, Laser Drill. Avoid at all costs.
Muradin - 50% less attack speed, ALL THE TIME.
Chen - Shields and shields and shields and shields and...
Sonya - Slam hurts. Slam cannot be Evaded. Sonya is ouchy times.
Azmodan - Laser HURTS.
Uther - Stun Stun Imposing Presence Divine Shield laughs in your face as you're eating cement.
Tassadar - Shields 4ever. Will E away from you pretty easily.
Murky - Dead serious. Murky is great vs Illidan and he will ruin your day.
Generally most Tanks, honestly, especially if they have Imposing Presence.
Special mention to Falstad who beats you out Early Game really hard. But the tables start to turn the later the game goes.
Easy Pickin's "Yes Please Kill Me" Matchups:
Nova - Lol. Just chase her down.
Nazeebo - Zombie Wall ain't shit. Just corner him, he has no escapes.
Tyrande - Avoid her stun and you're golden.
Malfurion - Looool.
Raynor - Be careful if he has Banshees, but otherwise a free kill.
Kael'thas - Be wary of his stun+redonkulous damage output, otherwise free kill.
Jaina - Same deal, though careful if she has Sprint up.
Zagara - Generally a free kill, but be wary of her summons.
Sylvanas - Can't do shit if her E's down. Be especially careful of Wailing Arrow though, that will turn the fight around entirely.
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
Gamertag - Khraul
PSN - Razide6
I don't even know... maybe it's just that I'm playing entirely with pubs who can't capitalize on poly's and Ults... even using the builds in this thread I kinda feel like I'm just floating around polymorphing things.. dropping tiny damage with flare and pixie dusting people when they look like they're in trouble.
I just don't feel like I'm bringing anything to a match. Hard to explain.
On Aba I know when I've saved a squishy, or tagged someone with a stab for a kill... On Falstad I know when I'm smashing other players or flying in for a good kill/to defend on objective... on Malf I feel like I'm actually healing people and disrupting the other team with moonfire and roots. With Murky I had terrorize the enemy by being murky...
BW I just can't get a feel on what I'm supposed to be doing all the time.... Her playstyle feels really obscure... Maybe I need a general play guide lol
Gamertag - Khraul
PSN - Razide6
She becomes significantly worse for Illidan next patch, now that blinds will be duration based rather than charge based. Imagine being blinded for three seconds, hitting her for two, then blinded for three seconds, repeat. Thanks, Kung Fu Hustle!
Illidans who make the mistake of coming after my Brightwing are delicious
... so yes if you're playing Illidan seriously do not think to yourself "I will help and take out the healer!" You will not help. You will be lunch.
*e* And even if you aren't lunch, you'll be a pig, and then if BW is in trouble she'll Phase Shift away.
I almost always take Bribe at level 1, because I like denying enemy teams access to their mercs. The trick is to use the ability smartly -- you can't just go off as soon as you have 40 stacks and expect to take a camp without any issues. Wait until you know a Tribute's about to spawn, let's say. You have a count-down timer stating that it will spawn in 15 seconds. That's typically your opportunity; everyone on the map is about to head to that Tribute, meaning:
A) nobody is likely to gank you when you pop the siege giants right next to their base, and
Brightwing has global presence, so a play like this doesn't put your team at risk the way it would if, let's say Nazeebo tried the same play. As soon as the camp's yours, just Phase Shift up to your allies.
If you aren't comfortable pushing a lot of extra buttons, maybe put off learning BW until you are. Or, try to think of playing her as an exercise in learning to use more buttons. You're likely to end up with at least 5 additional buttons that will get used constantly; that's 1, 2, 3, D and Z (Bribe, Protective Shield, Storm Shield, Gust of Healing and Phase Shield). Every single one of those abilities is amazing, and are a huge part of what makes Brightwing (at least for the next 9 days or so) the top-tier support hero that she is.
With regard to Polymorph and Pixie Dust, obviously a lot is about to change in the upcoming patch. But in general, right now, you should be using your Polymorph constantly to peel for your allies, set up ganks, and disrupt enemy abilities. The trick is knowing when is the most advantageous time to use it. I very commonly use Pixie Dust solely for the speed bonus. Its a very versatile skill; you can use it as an escape, a defensive bonus against right-clicks or to help an ally chase down a fleeing target.
I hated BW when I first started playing her. I actually felt exactly the same way that you feel now. She's a very intimidating character with a high skill cap, and if you aren't capable of utilizing her to her fullest, she's going to feel really frustrating. But just keep with it. Brightwing is amazing, and she's practically invincible once you know what you're doing.
If you need any really specific advice, like how she's supposed to play on certain maps, or with / against certain comps, I'd be happy to help you out. Just let me know.
Don't use Q unless you are in pursuit, W will increase your DPS. But both reset your autoattack, which is your primary source of damage. Get good at body blocking, and know that you retreat by using Q on enemy walls and enemy minions.
I have also used Q on buildings in order to get to the other side IMMEDIATELY and escape enemies.
Don't overextend, and use your dodge ability to avoid Turret Fire and Fort Fire. Very handy if you push a lane all the and want to get that finishing hit, you can dodge those blasts and make them waste ammo.
Also, you can hit one turret if it's out of ammo if you position yourself as far away from the other turret as possible and it still has ammo.
There's some pretty basic stuff here that had never occurred to me.... hearthing/teleporting for lane presence and the speed boost on pixie dust are the most glaring.
I'll give her another go or two and see how it goes.
Thanks Duck :biggrin:
Gamertag - Khraul
PSN - Razide6
XBL: InvaderJims
Bnet: Pudgestomp#11153
I love me some Brightwing, and I don't want to see her changed. The last time they drastically changed the kit of my beloved hero (Tyrael) it put him near the bottom of the pile. Sure, people use Tyrael in certain dive comps against mage-heavy teams, but he's still a pretty garbage hero except in a few fringe cases. I don't want that to happen to Brightwing. I don't want her to be a terrible healer except against fringe comps.
I too am puzzled why she was on the block for a rework at this point but who knows
anyways.
Thought for sure I'd hate it. And I probably will, but people were talking during the draft, I was just going to pick anub because no one was a tank, someone asked for support, so I went Uther. My god, coordination was so much fun. I'm not sure how you brag about games but it was 12 minutes long, we didn't even hit level 20. it was on mines, and by the first golem (70/30) they had like 7 combined deaths. I didn't die at all and ended something like 27/0.
That first golem made it to their core.
It makes her a hell of a lot more approachable for new players. Now she doesn't have a thousand extra generic activated abilities to use to be effective.
Because all her builds (or the variations on her one build) are all just "Pick the generic extra ability talents when they are available". Which means her BW-specific talents were shit and needed to be looked at.
Like, note that the rework eliminated most of her generic talents and gave her a bunch of new ways to buff her existing skills. Which are pretty cool imo.
And they seem to have nerfed her burst healing. (though Manic Pixie and the Phase Shift talents arguably can mitigate this)
I was taking talents to improve her shield, her trait, and at 16 I put slow on polymorph.
I also have a positive win rate with Brightwing and consider her my best character, so I'll just go ahead and say it. I don't think any of the generic talents were mandatory.
And then rewind at 20 because rewind, or storm shield if i need even more shields.
Terrigan.
why.
going on 8 minutes on mines against a brightwing tass and the game has been over since the beginning but doubly so since the DC. why am i being trapped in this game to waste my relatively limited hots time on babysitting a bot who gets killed every 5 seconds.
Yup. All the builds/guides I've seen pick mostly generics. Just look at what people are talking about above wrt learning to use the number-key skills with BW.
And the alternative to bribe at 13 (the shield on Phase Shift) is one thing they super-buffed via supporting talents. It's now looking like a REALLY good thing to build around.
Sometimes I am so goddamn bad at Kerrigan. I swear there's a lag issue or some sort of universal cooldown going on that makes getting that combo off a 50/50 chance at best.
Carry harder.
Currently 35 but I'm shooting to get all the way up to 40! yeah! that's how it works....right?
actually I think I'll only play in afternoons PST, or maybe mornings
night time I just go on loss streaks
Make sure to have quick cast on.
It goes stun, then pull. Getting the location takes some time to get use to.
Your Q isn't for an engage it is to finish.
Both her ults are excellent. Choose based on your team. Lots of ways to keep the enemy grouped get the storm. Need another good body to chase off a Jaina? Get the ultra.
Some days you will have about 8 buttons to press because of the generics.
Envenom, Sprint, BfB and Blink are all fantastic on her.
You are not an auto attack assassin. Don't act like one.
Jump into enemy team + pull off prefect combo
Allies back off
Enemy team kill you
Type in chat: "Team?"
Streaming 8PST on weeknights
@Khraul
See an example of BW play here:
My top tips are:
1. Harrass a lot. Your healing is 0 mana, so you win every even trade.
2. Polymorph and Emerald Wind are huge at both offense and protection.
3. Healing with her requires being within range when the timer goes off. It's more of a positioning thing than a click on an ally to heal thing.
4. Global presence is awesome.
I find her quite effective, and she is tied for my favorite support with Rehgar.
@programjunkie
I watched a little of that tonight and I'll watch the rest tomorrow at work (and then bookmark it).
I've basically been doing the exact opposite of that... all of it... just wrong.
Next time I'm on its fuggin Brightwing game time
Gamertag - Khraul
PSN - Razide6
In the first 30 seconds the Kaelthas went down (not uncommon) and the jaina said "gg this team suck" and went afk in base.
She finally DC'ed, while the rest of us are puttin' the pedal down getting work done. Then she comes back and is like "LOL, why bother" while I'm Moshpit combo-ing with Kael for mega kills and scoopin up all the skulls.
By the time we WIN she says "lol miracle" and I just wanted to throttle the whole internet with my grubby tauren hands.
Steam ID: Obos Vent: Obos
eh, I drop like ten ranks sometimes
I don't dwell on it much
you'll swing back the other way in time