It's been a long time since I've enjoyed a game as much as this. I thought I was losing interest thursday/friday but it turned out I was just tired.
I really dig the changes to Brightwing. It enhances the utility functionality of her and I think it should make builds more variable and interesting if I'm thinking of it right.
I also have to say that people keep pooping on Sonya, but I'm finding her highly effective. I'm not sure why people don't like her. Maybe it's just her capabilities but I survive best and win the most with her over any other warrior. I think her powers keep me from getting to greedy so I tend to attack and then take a step back, then move in for another strike whereas for other melee warriors I just have a tendency to sit and get my butt kicked.
bnet: Supagoat#1884
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cptruggedI think it has something to do with free will.Registered Userregular
On the Brightwing changes.
I think these changes will absolutely drop her into a lower tier of usefulness. Not because of the kit itself, but because of the current burst heavy meta. She was already a bit weak dealing with burst damage, but looking at these changes it looks like it will be even worse.
Now, lowering the cooldown of phase shift + phase shield may make up for this. But people tend to forget that trying to phaseshift in middle of a team fight ain't that easy and if you do you're putting yourself directly into range. And it didn't shield you. Just them.
I do really like that talent that lets you blink heal again for free if you do it quick. Mostly cause that negates danger of going in to the danger zone on some hero for nothing. Illidan need heals on the front line? Blink in for a heal and blink right back out.
Howe 2 Kerrigan:
Jump into enemy team + pull off prefect combo
Allies back off
Enemy team kill you
Type in chat: "Team?"
How to Kerrigan after the upcoming patch changes:
Realize Envenom and B4B were nerfed
Play a different hero entirely
Maybe with Envenom and Blood for Blood both being nerfed they will look at Kerrigan's kit and realize that her kit almost entirely depends on generic talents. If any character needs a complete talent rework, it's Kerrigan.
HI I'M SPLIT PUSHING RAYNOR. ALL I DO IS PUSH ALL DAY LONG, EVERY DAY. PUSH PUSH PUSH THAT'S WHAT I'M FOR.
TEAM FIGHTS? NO SIR, NOT FOR SPLIT PUSHING RAYNOR. LOOK AT THAT, I TOOK DOWN TWO FORTS AS SPLIT PUSHING RAYNOR. WHAT? THEY TOOK DOWN ALL OF OUR KEEPS? CLEARLY THAT IS THE FAULT OF MY TEAM, AND NOT OF SPLIT PUS-
Howe 2 Kerrigan:
Jump into enemy team + pull off prefect combo
Allies back off
Enemy team kill you
Type in chat: "Team?"
How to Kerrigan after the upcoming patch changes:
Realize Envenom and B4B were nerfed
Play a different hero entirely
Maybe with Envenom and Blood for Blood both being nerfed they will look at Kerrigan's kit and realize that her kit almost entirely depends on generic talents. If any character needs a complete talent rework, it's Kerrigan.
Yeah, definitely. She's part of the original 12, and they did say all of them were getting their kits overhauled. So far we've seen the following:
Illidan (I can't remember if he did or not)
Abathur (was he one of the original 12?)
Lili
Raynor
Falstad
ETC
Diablo
Tyrande
Nova
Brightwing (Soon)
Malfurion (Soon)
Am I remembering incorrectly or missing anyone? Were some of these even considered the kit changes they were talking about? But if I'm not missing anyone, that leaves Stitches and Kerrigan.
Hmm. Come to think of it, are some of the ones I listed after the original 12? I thought BW came later.
HI I'M SPLIT PUSHING RAYNOR. ALL I DO IS PUSH ALL DAY LONG, EVERY DAY. PUSH PUSH PUSH THAT'S WHAT I'M FOR.
TEAM FIGHTS? NO SIR, NOT FOR SPLIT PUSHING RAYNOR. LOOK AT THAT, I TOOK DOWN TWO FORTS AS SPLIT PUSHING RAYNOR. WHAT? THEY TOOK DOWN ALL OF OUR KEEPS? CLEARLY THAT IS THE FAULT OF MY TEAM, AND NOT OF SPLIT PUS-
gets ganked by Nova. Again.
This describes a large, but not surprising, number of Raynors I have had the displeasure of playing with.
HI I'M SPLIT PUSHING RAYNOR. ALL I DO IS PUSH ALL DAY LONG, EVERY DAY. PUSH PUSH PUSH THAT'S WHAT I'M FOR.
TEAM FIGHTS? NO SIR, NOT FOR SPLIT PUSHING RAYNOR. LOOK AT THAT, I TOOK DOWN TWO FORTS AS SPLIT PUSHING RAYNOR. WHAT? THEY TOOK DOWN ALL OF OUR KEEPS? CLEARLY THAT IS THE FAULT OF MY TEAM, AND NOT OF SPLIT PUS-
gets ganked by Nova. Again.
This describes a large, but not surprising, number of Raynors I have had the displeasure of playing with.
It doesn't help that the core tutorial has you doing nothing put pushing creeps up a lane. Sure, that's the basics and a great place to start, but it seems a lot of people get Uther's voice stuck in their heads and think that's all they're supposed to do.
So Psionic Pulse is probably the weird one here, the one that stands out. But I did some quick napkin math and I think it'll actually do more damage than Envenom will, over a prolonged duration anyway. You'll practically have 100% uptime with Battle Momentum as well. Not to mention it's aoe damage, whereas Envenom is single target.
Actually, it's either that or Focused Attack. Focused Attack might actually be better as far as burst is concerned, but Psionic Pulse is like Immolation or Fire Devil, it does a lot of damage over time. At level 20, Immolation does 63x4 damage for 252 total damage over its duration. Fire Devil does 50x6 damage for 300 total damage over its duration. Psionic Pulse does 60x5 for 300 total damage over its duration.
Overdrive is a pretty easy replacement for BFB, though. Either that or Blade Torrent.
I guess to be fair syl (or at least how I build syl) would also lose some pvp viability if envenom/bfb are weaker overall.
I think Sylvanas will be fine, still. Envenom still probably worth taking on her (largely because nothing else on that tier is better), but otherwise just grab Cold Embrace at level 16.
Howe 2 Kerrigan:
Jump into enemy team + pull off prefect combo
Allies back off
Enemy team kill you
Type in chat: "Team?"
How to Kerrigan after the upcoming patch changes:
Realize Envenom and B4B were nerfed
Play a different hero entirely
The bfb nerf hurts but I think it will still be viable.
Envenom is a talent because I know it is being nerfed hard I have been playing with other talents to see how they go. Her cleave actually is pretty useful, especially on maps where you have to push. I haven't really tried the others. I can see the damage on grasp being okay.
HI I'M SPLIT PUSHING RAYNOR. ALL I DO IS PUSH ALL DAY LONG, EVERY DAY. PUSH PUSH PUSH THAT'S WHAT I'M FOR.
TEAM FIGHTS? NO SIR, NOT FOR SPLIT PUSHING RAYNOR. LOOK AT THAT, I TOOK DOWN TWO FORTS AS SPLIT PUSHING RAYNOR. WHAT? THEY TOOK DOWN ALL OF OUR KEEPS? CLEARLY THAT IS THE FAULT OF MY TEAM, AND NOT OF SPLIT PUS-
gets ganked by Nova. Again.
This describes a large, but not surprising, number of Raynors I have had the displeasure of playing with.
HI I'M SPLIT PUSHING RAYNOR. ALL I DO IS PUSH ALL DAY LONG, EVERY DAY. PUSH PUSH PUSH THAT'S WHAT I'M FOR.
TEAM FIGHTS? NO SIR, NOT FOR SPLIT PUSHING RAYNOR. LOOK AT THAT, I TOOK DOWN TWO FORTS AS SPLIT PUSHING RAYNOR. WHAT? THEY TOOK DOWN ALL OF OUR KEEPS? CLEARLY THAT IS THE FAULT OF MY TEAM, AND NOT OF SPLIT PUS-
gets ganked by Nova. Again.
This describes a large, but not surprising, number of Raynors I have had the displeasure of playing with.
Oh my god it does. I was just about to quote him and ask "W-were on my team in my Quick Matches last night?"
Like seriously, if there's an objective or a team fight going down and I see one of our player icons on the map way the fuck out in the middle of nowhere, it's usually a Raynor. Sometimes it's an Abathur! Which is a relief! But it's usually a Raynor.
we still won most of them, even if a few were a bit uh, weird
that last one was more or less out our hands, even if we had somehow been able to prevent the draft from going down how it did
Yeah, man. Good games. I hope you didn't think I was getting on you there, before I left. I just would have preferred if you'd picked warrior, rather than having it come down to me. Its a role I know you're great at, and its my least effective role by a wide margin; I just feel like I have no sense for team fight initiations, and my win rate on warriors is poor. I could have drafted Sylvanas in your stead, and we would have had a much more feasible lineup. Would it have prevented that idiot from drafting Nova? Of course not. It still would have been an uphill battle, especially considering the whole team's toxic attitude, but I feel like it would have made a lot more sense just from an ability / competency standpoint on our part.
I had fun, but I had to get going. My wife came home with some equipment I needed to do some work on the back porch.
Howe 2 Kerrigan:
Jump into enemy team + pull off prefect combo
Allies back off
Enemy team kill you
Type in chat: "Team?"
How to Kerrigan after the upcoming patch changes:
Realize Envenom and B4B were nerfed
Play a different hero entirely
Maybe with Envenom and Blood for Blood both being nerfed they will look at Kerrigan's kit and realize that her kit almost entirely depends on generic talents. If any character needs a complete talent rework, it's Kerrigan.
Yeah, definitely. She's part of the original 12, and they did say all of them were getting their kits overhauled. So far we've seen the following:
Illidan (I can't remember if he did or not)
Abathur (was he one of the original 12?)
Lili
Raynor
Falstad
ETC
Diablo
Tyrande
Nova
Brightwing (Soon)
Malfurion (Soon)
Am I remembering incorrectly or missing anyone? Were some of these even considered the kit changes they were talking about? But if I'm not missing anyone, that leaves Stitches and Kerrigan.
Hmm. Come to think of it, are some of the ones I listed after the original 12? I thought BW came later.
The original 12 would be: Diablo, Raynor, ETC, Nova, Kerrigan, Illidan, Malfurion, Tyrande, Tyrael, Uther, Arthas, and Stitches.
I think. I'm pretty sure that's the original list.
Of course spell shield and imposing presence are pick ups if you are facing people they mess up like Illidan or Kael.
Knight takes pawn is really useful early and late. I think people underestimate it sometimes but I see a lot of high level folks take it now too.
The other talent I like is the cooldown reduction on condemn. You can cast it a stupid amount of times in a fight with that. Also regen master isn't bad thanks to how tough she is. Gives you some more sustain.
Knight takes pawn, laws of hope, battle momentum, blessed shield, hold your ground, holy renewal, and indestructible.
Vary it up a bit with block/imposing presence if there's illidan, hammer, or ray or any AA to be delt with.
I rarely take falling sword anymore.
I am growing to like falling sword more and more. I think Captain America shield is still better to engage with while sword is for chasing/escape. Also works if you have like a flamestrike ready. Sword in, condemn and burn.
we still won most of them, even if a few were a bit uh, weird
that last one was more or less out our hands, even if we had somehow been able to prevent the draft from going down how it did
Yeah, man. Good games. I hope you didn't think I was getting on you there, before I left. I just would have preferred if you'd picked warrior, rather than having it come down to me. Its a role I know you're great at, and its my least effective role by a wide margin; I just feel like I have no sense for team fight initiations, and my win rate on warriors is poor. I could have drafted Sylvanas in your stead, and we would have had a much more feasible lineup. Would it have prevented that idiot from drafting Nova? Of course not. It still would have been an uphill battle, especially considering the whole team's toxic attitude, but I feel like it would have made a lot more sense just from an ability / competency standpoint on our part.
I had fun, but I had to get going. My wife came home with some equipment I needed to do some work on the back porch.
I don't really like either stealther in Hero League. But of the two, Nova is by far the better pick. I'm pretty sure I have a 0% win rate when people draft Zeratul. And my win rate with Nova will depend on when she is drafted. First pick Nova is usually a loss, because she is too easily counter-picked.
My only good experience with Nova is when she's a last pick as a counter-pick to other heroes, like if the enemy team's draft is particularly squishy and has characters that Nova can easily delete.
In all other situations, she is a bad pick and too easily countered.
Howe 2 Kerrigan:
Jump into enemy team + pull off prefect combo
Allies back off
Enemy team kill you
Type in chat: "Team?"
How to Kerrigan after the upcoming patch changes:
Realize Envenom and B4B were nerfed
Play a different hero entirely
Maybe with Envenom and Blood for Blood both being nerfed they will look at Kerrigan's kit and realize that her kit almost entirely depends on generic talents. If any character needs a complete talent rework, it's Kerrigan.
Yeah, definitely. She's part of the original 12, and they did say all of them were getting their kits overhauled. So far we've seen the following:
Illidan (I can't remember if he did or not)
Abathur (was he one of the original 12?)
Lili
Raynor
Falstad
ETC
Diablo
Tyrande
Nova
Brightwing (Soon)
Malfurion (Soon)
Am I remembering incorrectly or missing anyone? Were some of these even considered the kit changes they were talking about? But if I'm not missing anyone, that leaves Stitches and Kerrigan.
Hmm. Come to think of it, are some of the ones I listed after the original 12? I thought BW came later.
The original 12 would be: Diablo, Raynor, ETC, Nova, Kerrigan, Illidan, Malfurion, Tyrande, Tyrael, Uther, Arthas, and Stitches.
I think. I'm pretty sure that's the original list.
So Tyrael, Arthas, Kerrigan, and Stitches are due for some love.
we still won most of them, even if a few were a bit uh, weird
that last one was more or less out our hands, even if we had somehow been able to prevent the draft from going down how it did
Yeah, man. Good games. I hope you didn't think I was getting on you there, before I left. I just would have preferred if you'd picked warrior, rather than having it come down to me. Its a role I know you're great at, and its my least effective role by a wide margin; I just feel like I have no sense for team fight initiations, and my win rate on warriors is poor. I could have drafted Sylvanas in your stead, and we would have had a much more feasible lineup. Would it have prevented that idiot from drafting Nova? Of course not. It still would have been an uphill battle, especially considering the whole team's toxic attitude, but I feel like it would have made a lot more sense just from an ability / competency standpoint on our part.
I had fun, but I had to get going. My wife came home with some equipment I needed to do some work on the back porch.
I don't really like either stealther in Hero League. But of the two, Nova is by far the better pick. I'm pretty sure I have a 0% win rate when people draft Zeratul. And my win rate with Nova will depend on when she is drafted. First pick Nova is usually a loss, because she is too easily counter-picked.
My only good experience with Nova is when she's a last pick as a counter-pick to other heroes, like if the enemy team's draft is particularly squishy and has characters that Nova can easily delete.
In all other situations, she is a bad pick and too easily countered.
I would support her being picked, late, only on Spider Queen
otherwise no plz
also I have seen some good zeras in HL, and some really bad ones
Nova however seems more likely to be a non-contributor
we still won most of them, even if a few were a bit uh, weird
that last one was more or less out our hands, even if we had somehow been able to prevent the draft from going down how it did
Yeah, man. Good games. I hope you didn't think I was getting on you there, before I left. I just would have preferred if you'd picked warrior, rather than having it come down to me. Its a role I know you're great at, and its my least effective role by a wide margin; I just feel like I have no sense for team fight initiations, and my win rate on warriors is poor. I could have drafted Sylvanas in your stead, and we would have had a much more feasible lineup. Would it have prevented that idiot from drafting Nova? Of course not. It still would have been an uphill battle, especially considering the whole team's toxic attitude, but I feel like it would have made a lot more sense just from an ability / competency standpoint on our part.
I had fun, but I had to get going. My wife came home with some equipment I needed to do some work on the back porch.
I don't really like either stealther in Hero League. But of the two, Nova is by far the better pick. I'm pretty sure I have a 0% win rate when people draft Zeratul. And my win rate with Nova will depend on when she is drafted. First pick Nova is usually a loss, because she is too easily counter-picked.
My only good experience with Nova is when she's a last pick as a counter-pick to other heroes, like if the enemy team's draft is particularly squishy and has characters that Nova can easily delete.
In all other situations, she is a bad pick and too easily countered.
I would support her being picked, late, only on Spider Queen
otherwise no plz
also I have seen some good zeras in HL, and some really bad ones
Nova however seems more likely to be a non-contributor
Nova and Zertaul both excel on the two lane maps. You can all but guarantee that your teammates will split up 2 and 2 (assuming you're the Nova/Zeratul) in lane and allow you to roam.
we still won most of them, even if a few were a bit uh, weird
that last one was more or less out our hands, even if we had somehow been able to prevent the draft from going down how it did
Yeah, man. Good games. I hope you didn't think I was getting on you there, before I left. I just would have preferred if you'd picked warrior, rather than having it come down to me. Its a role I know you're great at, and its my least effective role by a wide margin; I just feel like I have no sense for team fight initiations, and my win rate on warriors is poor. I could have drafted Sylvanas in your stead, and we would have had a much more feasible lineup. Would it have prevented that idiot from drafting Nova? Of course not. It still would have been an uphill battle, especially considering the whole team's toxic attitude, but I feel like it would have made a lot more sense just from an ability / competency standpoint on our part.
I had fun, but I had to get going. My wife came home with some equipment I needed to do some work on the back porch.
I don't really like either stealther in Hero League. But of the two, Nova is by far the better pick. I'm pretty sure I have a 0% win rate when people draft Zeratul. And my win rate with Nova will depend on when she is drafted. First pick Nova is usually a loss, because she is too easily counter-picked.
My only good experience with Nova is when she's a last pick as a counter-pick to other heroes, like if the enemy team's draft is particularly squishy and has characters that Nova can easily delete.
In all other situations, she is a bad pick and too easily countered.
I would support her being picked, late, only on Spider Queen
otherwise no plz
also I have seen some good zeras in HL, and some really bad ones
Nova however seems more likely to be a non-contributor
Yeah, I've been on and against teams with Zeratuls that absolutely decimate in HL, but it's usually as a counter-pick to teams with a squishier back line. Definitely not a great all-around pick, though.
we still won most of them, even if a few were a bit uh, weird
that last one was more or less out our hands, even if we had somehow been able to prevent the draft from going down how it did
Yeah, man. Good games. I hope you didn't think I was getting on you there, before I left. I just would have preferred if you'd picked warrior, rather than having it come down to me. Its a role I know you're great at, and its my least effective role by a wide margin; I just feel like I have no sense for team fight initiations, and my win rate on warriors is poor. I could have drafted Sylvanas in your stead, and we would have had a much more feasible lineup. Would it have prevented that idiot from drafting Nova? Of course not. It still would have been an uphill battle, especially considering the whole team's toxic attitude, but I feel like it would have made a lot more sense just from an ability / competency standpoint on our part.
I had fun, but I had to get going. My wife came home with some equipment I needed to do some work on the back porch.
I don't really like either stealther in Hero League. But of the two, Nova is by far the better pick. I'm pretty sure I have a 0% win rate when people draft Zeratul. And my win rate with Nova will depend on when she is drafted. First pick Nova is usually a loss, because she is too easily counter-picked.
My only good experience with Nova is when she's a last pick as a counter-pick to other heroes, like if the enemy team's draft is particularly squishy and has characters that Nova can easily delete.
In all other situations, she is a bad pick and too easily countered.
I would support her being picked, late, only on Spider Queen
otherwise no plz
also I have seen some good zeras in HL, and some really bad ones
Nova however seems more likely to be a non-contributor
Nova and Zertaul both excel on the two lane maps. You can all but guarantee that your teammates will split up 2 and 2 (assuming you're the Nova/Zeratul) in lane and allow you to roam.
we still won most of them, even if a few were a bit uh, weird
that last one was more or less out our hands, even if we had somehow been able to prevent the draft from going down how it did
Yeah, man. Good games. I hope you didn't think I was getting on you there, before I left. I just would have preferred if you'd picked warrior, rather than having it come down to me. Its a role I know you're great at, and its my least effective role by a wide margin; I just feel like I have no sense for team fight initiations, and my win rate on warriors is poor. I could have drafted Sylvanas in your stead, and we would have had a much more feasible lineup. Would it have prevented that idiot from drafting Nova? Of course not. It still would have been an uphill battle, especially considering the whole team's toxic attitude, but I feel like it would have made a lot more sense just from an ability / competency standpoint on our part.
I had fun, but I had to get going. My wife came home with some equipment I needed to do some work on the back porch.
I don't really like either stealther in Hero League. But of the two, Nova is by far the better pick. I'm pretty sure I have a 0% win rate when people draft Zeratul. And my win rate with Nova will depend on when she is drafted. First pick Nova is usually a loss, because she is too easily counter-picked.
My only good experience with Nova is when she's a last pick as a counter-pick to other heroes, like if the enemy team's draft is particularly squishy and has characters that Nova can easily delete.
In all other situations, she is a bad pick and too easily countered.
I would support her being picked, late, only on Spider Queen
otherwise no plz
also I have seen some good zeras in HL, and some really bad ones
Nova however seems more likely to be a non-contributor
I love Nova. And she will be my first master skin most likely but I kind of agree with this.
Nova requires a team who can lane 4v5 while she roams. You can't get behind because she falls off really fast if you do.
She is fantastic verse certain heroes though. Kael, Valla, and basically any squishy. She really hits her peak at 16 with double deadly decoys or the vulnerability with single target burst.
I think she works well on maps with areas people are vulnerable. Spiders, the chest on the pirate map, Dragonshire. You can find people solo or duo on those maps and pick someone off.
Also in team fights she is hard to play right. You have to be patient. You have to move around the enemy and try to push someone out from the back if you can.
And never take triple tap. Ever.
She works in a wombo team as well. Zag is a fantastic Nova partner.
How should i be playing Zag? I tried her a few times yesterday and was afraid to leave lane, because there would invariably be a nova to there to delete me. It worked well on maps where I could control the objective from lane (center lane on dragon knight for instance). Also, i havent figured out how best to capitilize on her ult.
How should i be playing Zag? I tried her a few times yesterday and was afraid to leave lane, because there would invariably be a nova to there to delete me. It worked well on maps where I could control the objective from lane (center lane on dragon knight for instance). Also, i havent figured out how best to capitilize on her ult.
use creep tumors as wards, put them in bushes and near objectives
you can bully most people in lane early game. use your roachs to tank tower hits and deplete ammo faster. put the hunter on heroes only - it hurts a lot.
learn to look for nova shimmer and I guess play more conservative when she's in the game (or get a buddy to hang with)
you can skip reconstitution for endless creep or extra roaches. you can take the spell shield situationally (like against Nova)
oh and her ult - use it to take out part of their team so you can isolate or kill someone. Or catch a bunch of them to set up a wombo aoe combo when maw ends
in a pinch you can use maw when someone is chasing you to help you escape
I think these changes will absolutely drop her into a lower tier of usefulness. Not because of the kit itself, but because of the current burst heavy meta. She was already a bit weak dealing with burst damage, but looking at these changes it looks like it will be even worse.
Now, lowering the cooldown of phase shift + phase shield may make up for this. But people tend to forget that trying to phaseshift in middle of a team fight ain't that easy and if you do you're putting yourself directly into range. And it didn't shield you. Just them.
I do really like that talent that lets you blink heal again for free if you do it quick. Mostly cause that negates danger of going in to the danger zone on some hero for nothing. Illidan need heals on the front line? Blink in for a heal and blink right back out.
My opinion on the brightwing changes is that she is going to be stronger than ever while agreeing with you that she won't be able to stop burst. My reasoning for this is that her main skill, polymorph got even stronger. Early game, it gained a 20% slow at the cost of damage and -0.5 duration. The damage loss is neligable but the slow on polymorph is something you previously had to wait until 16 to pick up and it was really strong there. The only reason it wasn't picked that often was that at 16 you are full into the team fighting part of the game and the slow was best used to enable ganks. Now you can enable ganks from level 1.
Late game, you should be picking up greater polymorph at 16. Getting your polymorph up to 2.5 seconds is so good that even though the other talents here are great, they probably won't ever be picked. With Rewind/Greater Polymorph, you can take an enemy hero out of combat for 5 seconds which is the most effective thing you can do in a team fight. If you get your double polymorph off, you probably don't need to worry about burst healing. Just take out their highest DPS hero and prevent the damage rather than healing it after the fact.
HI I'M SPLIT PUSHING RAYNOR. ALL I DO IS PUSH ALL DAY LONG, EVERY DAY. PUSH PUSH PUSH THAT'S WHAT I'M FOR.
TEAM FIGHTS? NO SIR, NOT FOR SPLIT PUSHING RAYNOR. LOOK AT THAT, I TOOK DOWN TWO FORTS AS SPLIT PUSHING RAYNOR. WHAT? THEY TOOK DOWN ALL OF OUR KEEPS? CLEARLY THAT IS THE FAULT OF MY TEAM, AND NOT OF SPLIT PUS-
gets ganked by Nova. Again.
This describes a large, but not surprising, number of Raynors I have had the displeasure of playing with.
Had a quickmatch last night where our team was ETC (me), Jaina, Kaelthas, brightwing, zeratul.
In the first 30 seconds the Kaelthas went down (not uncommon) and the jaina said "gg this team suck" and went afk in base.
She finally DC'ed, while the rest of us are puttin' the pedal down getting work done. Then she comes back and is like "LOL, why bother" while I'm Moshpit combo-ing with Kael for mega kills and scoopin up all the skulls.
By the time we WIN she says "lol miracle" and I just wanted to throttle the whole internet with my grubby tauren hands.
I still don't know why you can't report AFK. It's not one of the available options for some stupid reason.
Are there any good Zeratul builds other than being auto attack focused? Whenever I try to build around his ability damage I feel way less effective.
Follow through seems mandatory on him.
I think AA is the best way to build Zera by far. I hated him when I just did the ability builds, but love him now that I'm rocking the AA builds. If you hit it right, you can pull 700+ on a single AA swing. People go down fast, so do towers if you have minion cover.
XBL: Morgan Coke Yes, there is a space, not an underscore. I'm old school like that.
Battle.net: morgancoke#1589
we still won most of them, even if a few were a bit uh, weird
that last one was more or less out our hands, even if we had somehow been able to prevent the draft from going down how it did
Yeah, man. Good games. I hope you didn't think I was getting on you there, before I left. I just would have preferred if you'd picked warrior, rather than having it come down to me. Its a role I know you're great at, and its my least effective role by a wide margin; I just feel like I have no sense for team fight initiations, and my win rate on warriors is poor. I could have drafted Sylvanas in your stead, and we would have had a much more feasible lineup. Would it have prevented that idiot from drafting Nova? Of course not. It still would have been an uphill battle, especially considering the whole team's toxic attitude, but I feel like it would have made a lot more sense just from an ability / competency standpoint on our part.
I had fun, but I had to get going. My wife came home with some equipment I needed to do some work on the back porch.
I don't really like either stealther in Hero League. But of the two, Nova is by far the better pick. I'm pretty sure I have a 0% win rate when people draft Zeratul. And my win rate with Nova will depend on when she is drafted. First pick Nova is usually a loss, because she is too easily counter-picked.
My only good experience with Nova is when she's a last pick as a counter-pick to other heroes, like if the enemy team's draft is particularly squishy and has characters that Nova can easily delete.
In all other situations, she is a bad pick and too easily countered.
The issue was that the nova in question was one of the last two picks, with ducks. We had everything except a tank and a healer, and the nova refused to cover either one. The player in question didn't make this clear until it was already too late, their selection was blank until their turn was up.
I was third pick and probably should have just grabbed Jo to be safe, but grabbed syl instead because in an ideal draft it seemed like the better grab. I gambled and lost.
PSN: Ubeltanzer Blizzard: Ubel#1258
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cptruggedI think it has something to do with free will.Registered Userregular
I think these changes will absolutely drop her into a lower tier of usefulness. Not because of the kit itself, but because of the current burst heavy meta. She was already a bit weak dealing with burst damage, but looking at these changes it looks like it will be even worse.
Now, lowering the cooldown of phase shift + phase shield may make up for this. But people tend to forget that trying to phaseshift in middle of a team fight ain't that easy and if you do you're putting yourself directly into range. And it didn't shield you. Just them.
I do really like that talent that lets you blink heal again for free if you do it quick. Mostly cause that negates danger of going in to the danger zone on some hero for nothing. Illidan need heals on the front line? Blink in for a heal and blink right back out.
My opinion on the brightwing changes is that she is going to be stronger than ever while agreeing with you that she won't be able to stop burst. My reasoning for this is that her main skill, polymorph got even stronger. Early game, it gained a 20% slow at the cost of damage and -0.5 duration. The damage loss is neligable but the slow on polymorph is something you previously had to wait until 16 to pick up and it was really strong there. The only reason it wasn't picked that often was that at 16 you are full into the team fighting part of the game and the slow was best used to enable ganks. Now you can enable ganks from level 1.
Late game, you should be picking up greater polymorph at 16. Getting your polymorph up to 2.5 seconds is so good that even though the other talents here are great, they probably won't ever be picked. With Rewind/Greater Polymorph, you can take an enemy hero out of combat for 5 seconds which is the most effective thing you can do in a team fight. If you get your double polymorph off, you probably don't need to worry about burst healing. Just take out their highest DPS hero and prevent the damage rather than healing it after the fact.
The new poly will definitely screw all the melee assassins in the world. I agree totally. But trying to get through their front line to poly Jaina or Kael is usually a death sentence.
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I really dig the changes to Brightwing. It enhances the utility functionality of her and I think it should make builds more variable and interesting if I'm thinking of it right.
I also have to say that people keep pooping on Sonya, but I'm finding her highly effective. I'm not sure why people don't like her. Maybe it's just her capabilities but I survive best and win the most with her over any other warrior. I think her powers keep me from getting to greedy so I tend to attack and then take a step back, then move in for another strike whereas for other melee warriors I just have a tendency to sit and get my butt kicked.
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I think these changes will absolutely drop her into a lower tier of usefulness. Not because of the kit itself, but because of the current burst heavy meta. She was already a bit weak dealing with burst damage, but looking at these changes it looks like it will be even worse.
Now, lowering the cooldown of phase shift + phase shield may make up for this. But people tend to forget that trying to phaseshift in middle of a team fight ain't that easy and if you do you're putting yourself directly into range. And it didn't shield you. Just them.
I do really like that talent that lets you blink heal again for free if you do it quick. Mostly cause that negates danger of going in to the danger zone on some hero for nothing. Illidan need heals on the front line? Blink in for a heal and blink right back out.
we still won most of them, even if a few were a bit uh, weird
that last one was more or less out our hands, even if we had somehow been able to prevent the draft from going down how it did
How to Kerrigan after the upcoming patch changes:
Realize Envenom and B4B were nerfed
Play a different hero entirely
XBL: InvaderJims
Bnet: Pudgestomp#11153
Maybe with Envenom and Blood for Blood both being nerfed they will look at Kerrigan's kit and realize that her kit almost entirely depends on generic talents. If any character needs a complete talent rework, it's Kerrigan.
TEAM FIGHTS? NO SIR, NOT FOR SPLIT PUSHING RAYNOR. LOOK AT THAT, I TOOK DOWN TWO FORTS AS SPLIT PUSHING RAYNOR. WHAT? THEY TOOK DOWN ALL OF OUR KEEPS? CLEARLY THAT IS THE FAULT OF MY TEAM, AND NOT OF SPLIT PUS-
gets ganked by Nova. Again.
Yeah, definitely. She's part of the original 12, and they did say all of them were getting their kits overhauled. So far we've seen the following:
Illidan (I can't remember if he did or not)
Abathur (was he one of the original 12?)
Lili
Raynor
Falstad
ETC
Diablo
Tyrande
Nova
Brightwing (Soon)
Malfurion (Soon)
Am I remembering incorrectly or missing anyone? Were some of these even considered the kit changes they were talking about? But if I'm not missing anyone, that leaves Stitches and Kerrigan.
Hmm. Come to think of it, are some of the ones I listed after the original 12? I thought BW came later.
XBL: InvaderJims
Bnet: Pudgestomp#11153
This describes a large, but not surprising, number of Raynors I have had the displeasure of playing with.
It doesn't help that the core tutorial has you doing nothing put pushing creeps up a lane. Sure, that's the basics and a great place to start, but it seems a lot of people get Uther's voice stuck in their heads and think that's all they're supposed to do.
XBL: InvaderJims
Bnet: Pudgestomp#11153
With the Envenom/BFB nerf, I'm thinking my Kerrigan build is probably going to look like this: http://www.heroesfire.com/hots/talent-calculator/kerrigan#pAHq
So Psionic Pulse is probably the weird one here, the one that stands out. But I did some quick napkin math and I think it'll actually do more damage than Envenom will, over a prolonged duration anyway. You'll practically have 100% uptime with Battle Momentum as well. Not to mention it's aoe damage, whereas Envenom is single target.
Actually, it's either that or Focused Attack. Focused Attack might actually be better as far as burst is concerned, but Psionic Pulse is like Immolation or Fire Devil, it does a lot of damage over time. At level 20, Immolation does 63x4 damage for 252 total damage over its duration. Fire Devil does 50x6 damage for 300 total damage over its duration. Psionic Pulse does 60x5 for 300 total damage over its duration.
Overdrive is a pretty easy replacement for BFB, though. Either that or Blade Torrent.
I think Sylvanas will be fine, still. Envenom still probably worth taking on her (largely because nothing else on that tier is better), but otherwise just grab Cold Embrace at level 16.
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
The bfb nerf hurts but I think it will still be viable.
Envenom is a talent because I know it is being nerfed hard I have been playing with other talents to see how they go. Her cleave actually is pretty useful, especially on maps where you have to push. I haven't really tried the others. I can see the damage on grasp being okay.
Replacing bfb is hard not sure if I will.
I believe this is described as Laynor.
how do people build her usually?
Oh my god it does. I was just about to quote him and ask "W-were on my team in my Quick Matches last night?"
Like seriously, if there's an objective or a team fight going down and I see one of our player icons on the map way the fuck out in the middle of nowhere, it's usually a Raynor. Sometimes it's an Abathur! Which is a relief! But it's usually a Raynor.
overdrive is the way now with the BFB nerf I suppose
Knight takes pawn, laws of hope, battle momentum, blessed shield, hold your ground, holy renewal, and indestructible.
Vary it up a bit with block/imposing presence if there's illidan, hammer, or ray or any AA to be delt with.
I rarely take falling sword anymore.
Yeah, man. Good games. I hope you didn't think I was getting on you there, before I left. I just would have preferred if you'd picked warrior, rather than having it come down to me. Its a role I know you're great at, and its my least effective role by a wide margin; I just feel like I have no sense for team fight initiations, and my win rate on warriors is poor. I could have drafted Sylvanas in your stead, and we would have had a much more feasible lineup. Would it have prevented that idiot from drafting Nova? Of course not. It still would have been an uphill battle, especially considering the whole team's toxic attitude, but I feel like it would have made a lot more sense just from an ability / competency standpoint on our part.
I had fun, but I had to get going. My wife came home with some equipment I needed to do some work on the back porch.
The original 12 would be: Diablo, Raynor, ETC, Nova, Kerrigan, Illidan, Malfurion, Tyrande, Tyrael, Uther, Arthas, and Stitches.
I think. I'm pretty sure that's the original list.
Depends on my game but I tend to build this.
http://www.heroesfire.com/hots/talent-calculator/johanna#lM3z
Of course spell shield and imposing presence are pick ups if you are facing people they mess up like Illidan or Kael.
Knight takes pawn is really useful early and late. I think people underestimate it sometimes but I see a lot of high level folks take it now too.
The other talent I like is the cooldown reduction on condemn. You can cast it a stupid amount of times in a fight with that. Also regen master isn't bad thanks to how tough she is. Gives you some more sustain.
I am growing to like falling sword more and more. I think Captain America shield is still better to engage with while sword is for chasing/escape. Also works if you have like a flamestrike ready. Sword in, condemn and burn.
I don't really like either stealther in Hero League. But of the two, Nova is by far the better pick. I'm pretty sure I have a 0% win rate when people draft Zeratul. And my win rate with Nova will depend on when she is drafted. First pick Nova is usually a loss, because she is too easily counter-picked.
My only good experience with Nova is when she's a last pick as a counter-pick to other heroes, like if the enemy team's draft is particularly squishy and has characters that Nova can easily delete.
In all other situations, she is a bad pick and too easily countered.
So Tyrael, Arthas, Kerrigan, and Stitches are due for some love.
Or some anti-love as the case may be.
XBL: InvaderJims
Bnet: Pudgestomp#11153
I would support her being picked, late, only on Spider Queen
otherwise no plz
also I have seen some good zeras in HL, and some really bad ones
Nova however seems more likely to be a non-contributor
Nova and Zertaul both excel on the two lane maps. You can all but guarantee that your teammates will split up 2 and 2 (assuming you're the Nova/Zeratul) in lane and allow you to roam.
Yeah, I've been on and against teams with Zeratuls that absolutely decimate in HL, but it's usually as a counter-pick to teams with a squishier back line. Definitely not a great all-around pick, though.
XBL: InvaderJims
Bnet: Pudgestomp#11153
I do not like her on mines at all
I love Nova. And she will be my first master skin most likely but I kind of agree with this.
Nova requires a team who can lane 4v5 while she roams. You can't get behind because she falls off really fast if you do.
She is fantastic verse certain heroes though. Kael, Valla, and basically any squishy. She really hits her peak at 16 with double deadly decoys or the vulnerability with single target burst.
I think she works well on maps with areas people are vulnerable. Spiders, the chest on the pirate map, Dragonshire. You can find people solo or duo on those maps and pick someone off.
Also in team fights she is hard to play right. You have to be patient. You have to move around the enemy and try to push someone out from the back if you can.
And never take triple tap. Ever.
She works in a wombo team as well. Zag is a fantastic Nova partner.
Nintendo ID: Pastalonius
Smite\LoL:Gremlidin \ WoW & Overwatch & Hots: Gremlidin#1734
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use creep tumors as wards, put them in bushes and near objectives
you can bully most people in lane early game. use your roachs to tank tower hits and deplete ammo faster. put the hunter on heroes only - it hurts a lot.
learn to look for nova shimmer and I guess play more conservative when she's in the game (or get a buddy to hang with)
standard build I use:
http://www.heroesfire.com/hots/talent-calculator/zagara#oAlu
you can skip reconstitution for endless creep or extra roaches. you can take the spell shield situationally (like against Nova)
oh and her ult - use it to take out part of their team so you can isolate or kill someone. Or catch a bunch of them to set up a wombo aoe combo when maw ends
in a pinch you can use maw when someone is chasing you to help you escape
here is a grubby guide if you have some time to check it out:
My opinion on the brightwing changes is that she is going to be stronger than ever while agreeing with you that she won't be able to stop burst. My reasoning for this is that her main skill, polymorph got even stronger. Early game, it gained a 20% slow at the cost of damage and -0.5 duration. The damage loss is neligable but the slow on polymorph is something you previously had to wait until 16 to pick up and it was really strong there. The only reason it wasn't picked that often was that at 16 you are full into the team fighting part of the game and the slow was best used to enable ganks. Now you can enable ganks from level 1.
Late game, you should be picking up greater polymorph at 16. Getting your polymorph up to 2.5 seconds is so good that even though the other talents here are great, they probably won't ever be picked. With Rewind/Greater Polymorph, you can take an enemy hero out of combat for 5 seconds which is the most effective thing you can do in a team fight. If you get your double polymorph off, you probably don't need to worry about burst healing. Just take out their highest DPS hero and prevent the damage rather than healing it after the fact.
Follow through seems mandatory on him.
God yes, this.
I still don't know why you can't report AFK. It's not one of the available options for some stupid reason.
I use this when the auto-attack builds would be a bad idea, or if I can't survive long enough to get autos off.
https://www.heroesfire.com/hots/talent-calculator/zeratul#lOoq
I think AA is the best way to build Zera by far. I hated him when I just did the ability builds, but love him now that I'm rocking the AA builds. If you hit it right, you can pull 700+ on a single AA swing. People go down fast, so do towers if you have minion cover.
Battle.net: morgancoke#1589
Titan's Creed: Jump first, don't ask questions, punch everything
The issue was that the nova in question was one of the last two picks, with ducks. We had everything except a tank and a healer, and the nova refused to cover either one. The player in question didn't make this clear until it was already too late, their selection was blank until their turn was up.
I was third pick and probably should have just grabbed Jo to be safe, but grabbed syl instead because in an ideal draft it seemed like the better grab. I gambled and lost.
The new poly will definitely screw all the melee assassins in the world. I agree totally. But trying to get through their front line to poly Jaina or Kael is usually a death sentence.
We'll see though.