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    RoyceSraphimRoyceSraphim Registered User regular
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    Lindsay LohanLindsay Lohan Registered User regular
    Jazz wrote: »
    I'm the exception I guess - T&Cs aside I really like Windows 10.

    It's the T&Cs that are the issue, though.

    That's fine, but in all the times I've seen people get spun up in the terms of any software, operating system, etc, it's ended up amounting to nothing. Could this be the time that the T&Cs say "We might take your first born" and they actually do it? Sure. But in the past for all the news stories I've seen with similar topics, my day to day use of my PC has never been impacted.

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    MadPenMadPen San DiegoRegistered User regular
    I'm the exception I guess - T&Cs aside I really like Windows 10. Windows 8 on my desktop felt like it really wanted to be a touchscreen interface, but 10 is much more like a traditional desktop. Now on my tablet I kind of want to stick with 8 because I really like it, but I'm sure I'll end up updating that as well.

    This is why I don't see the trend reversing itself. 10 is a good OS. Very few people are going to turn down a basically free and good OS just because of T&C. And hopefully even if Microsoft manages to do a good job with "(companies') Property Rights Management" and creating a closed ecosystem, it'll continue to exist beside a healthy open ecosystem.

    3DS: 4098-4243-6127
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    HiT BiTHiT BiT 🍒 Fresh, straight from Pac-man's Registered User regular
    MadPen wrote: »
    And hey..Windows 10 can go fuck itself. Vista was fine, even underrated given that it introduced sorely needed security measures, and I don't have serious issues with Windows 8.1. Windows 10 is the OS I'm going to skip.
    I'm sticking to Windows 7 myself and avoiding the free upgrade mainly because I don't want to turn my Windows 7 Retail licence into an Windows 10 OEM licence the way that upgrade does.

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    Pixelated PixiePixelated Pixie They/Them Registered User regular
    .
    MadPen wrote: »
    And hey..Windows 10 can go fuck itself. Vista was fine, even underrated given that it introduced sorely needed security measures, and I don't have serious issues with Windows 8.1. Windows 10 is the OS I'm going to skip. Sadly, I don't see this trend reversing itself, but I can hope.

    I can't find the "I think you've lost your marbles" button. :razz:


    ~~ Pixie on Steam ~~
    ironzerg wrote: »
    Chipmunks are like nature's nipple clamps, I guess?
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    MadicanMadican No face Registered User regular
    I want my OS to be a product, not a service like Microsoft wants.

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    KalnaurKalnaur I See Rain . . . Centralia, WARegistered User regular
    Madican wrote: »
    I want my OS to be a product, not a service like Microsoft wants.

    This would be why I don't like Adobe's subscription based Photoshop and friends (Creative Cloud Bullshit). In fact, beyond Everquest I struggle to think of any software with a subscription that I've ever used.

    I make art things! deviantART: Kalnaur ::: Origin: Kalnaur ::: UPlay: Kalnaur
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    QuicalQuical Registered User regular
    Bloody hell @HiT BiT did not stay away from my wishlist.
    Again, ITS NOT MY BIRTHDAY.
    Thanks SO much for mirrors edge!

    NNID: Quical
    STEAM: Quical
    Check out my youtube channel, maybe subscribe?: NerdAndOrGeek
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    Santa ClaustrophobiaSanta Claustrophobia Ho Ho Ho Disconnecting from Xbox LIVERegistered User regular
    Jazz wrote: »
    What actually troubles me slightly more is this: "or using unauthorized hardware peripheral devices." That's something that's happened before in the console space, preventing unlicensed third-party peripherals from being used (usually with wording to the effect of "this may BREAK YOUR SYSTEM!!!1!" to scare you into compliance), and Microsoft definitely have previous there. But who the hell gets to call anything you plug into your PC "unauthorized"?

    That's not really it. Testing is (or was) done with first party gear only so there is no guarantee that third party will work properly (due to programming issues beyond my ken). The warning about breaking the system is that since third party stuff isn't fully tested, they will not accept liability if it does break something.

    Now, a dev (or even a system designer, I suppose) could block the use of third party hardware in the code. Activision even famously did not support the Rock Band guitar in GH3 even though Rock Band supported (or tried to) everything.


    As far as unauthorised hardware for PCs? Probably things that could or is used for software piracy. Anybody remember when Alcohol programs would sometimes prevent games from running?


    Anyway, I wouldn't read too much into that wording.

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    MadPenMadPen San DiegoRegistered User regular
    .
    MadPen wrote: »
    And hey..Windows 10 can go fuck itself. Vista was fine, even underrated given that it introduced sorely needed security measures, and I don't have serious issues with Windows 8.1. Windows 10 is the OS I'm going to skip. Sadly, I don't see this trend reversing itself, but I can hope.

    I can't find the "I think you've lost your marbles" button. :razz:

    That's because my wife keeps it on her person at all times.

    3DS: 4098-4243-6127
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    DashuiDashui Registered User regular
    Windows 10 keeps reorganizing my desktop into the top left corner and resizing windows into the same space. Please stawp, Windows. It's driving me nuts.

    Xbox Live, PSN & Origin: Vacorsis 3DS: 2638-0037-166
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    MudzgutMudzgut OhioRegistered User regular
    edited August 2015
    HiT BiT wrote: »
    MadPen wrote: »
    And hey..Windows 10 can go fuck itself. Vista was fine, even underrated given that it introduced sorely needed security measures, and I don't have serious issues with Windows 8.1. Windows 10 is the OS I'm going to skip.
    I'm sticking to Windows 7 myself and avoiding the free upgrade mainly because I don't want to turn my Windows 7 Retail licence into an Windows 10 OEM licence the way that upgrade does.

    So uh, if you've reserved a copy, but not gone any farther - that doesn't change your license right away does it? Like - I could just not ever install the reserved copy and be fine?
    I knew I should have paid more attention and/or annoyed my MS friend first.

    EDIT: Just looked at the email and saw I can un-reserve my copy. I do believe I'll do that tonight when I get home from work.

    EXTRA EDIT: Just read Pixie's comment about holding out. Maybe I won't un-reserve, but will continually harass my MS friend if it messes me up in any way, shape or form. (Including unwarranted complaints because I can get away with it.)

    Mudzgut on
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    Twitch/Mudzgut
    Fall down seven times. Stand up eight.
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    Pixelated PixiePixelated Pixie They/Them Registered User regular
    Pretty sure you hold-outs can only hold out so long. Win10 is not going away and there's not going to be a Win11. You either take the plunge (while it's free) or wait until you have no choice (and pay for it) or you switch to Linux or something.

    ~~ Pixie on Steam ~~
    ironzerg wrote: »
    Chipmunks are like nature's nipple clamps, I guess?
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    subisubi Registered User regular
    I never looked on @Quical wishlist ,just gave him some interesting games ;)

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    MadicanMadican No face Registered User regular
    Holding out as long as possible is my goal. With the hope that MS is going to be forced to backpedal as more and more of this crap floats to the surface. If not, well I'd bet there will be ways to forcibly disable most of the problematic stuff, even if MS doesn't want it to be.

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    Pixelated PixiePixelated Pixie They/Them Registered User regular
    Kalnaur wrote: »
    Madican wrote: »
    I want my OS to be a product, not a service like Microsoft wants.

    This would be why I don't like Adobe's subscription based Photoshop and friends (Creative Cloud Bullshit). In fact, beyond Everquest I struggle to think of any software with a subscription that I've ever used.

    Conversely, I think Adobe's service is fantastic. I can pay a few bucks a month and get a product I otherwise would have had to pay $TEXAS for every couple years, and it stays updated with no fuss. Before they introduced the subscription model, I was still stuck using Photoshop 6.0 (so old it took voodoo and blood magic to get it to install and run on Win7) because upgrading was prohibitively expensive.

    What's not to love? So I don't "own" it? Previous versions weren't "owned" either.

    ~~ Pixie on Steam ~~
    ironzerg wrote: »
    Chipmunks are like nature's nipple clamps, I guess?
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    MadPenMadPen San DiegoRegistered User regular
    edited August 2015
    Pretty sure you hold-outs can only hold out so long. Win10 is not going away and there's not going to be a Win11. You either take the plunge (while it's free) or wait until you have no choice (and pay for it) or you switch to Linux or something.

    I have an MSDN license, so I have the luxury of waiting it out. They'll release some game I want that's DirectX whatever, and then I'll cave and download it. Then I won't really play the game and I'll be disappointed with myself. Windows 8 and Skulls of the Shogun, I'm looking at you.

    edit: Speaking of no Win11, I was always holding out hope that MS would fix their file system. Corrupted ACLs and file metadata will continue to be my bane for life, I guess.

    MadPen on
    3DS: 4098-4243-6127
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    QuicalQuical Registered User regular
    subi wrote: »
    I never looked on @Quical wishlist ,just gave him some interesting games ;)

    Everyone needs to stop this immediately.

    NNID: Quical
    STEAM: Quical
    Check out my youtube channel, maybe subscribe?: NerdAndOrGeek
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    HiT BiTHiT BiT 🍒 Fresh, straight from Pac-man's Registered User regular
    edited August 2015
    Pretty sure you hold-outs can only hold out so long. Win10 is not going away and there's not going to be a Win11. You either take the plunge (while it's free) or wait until you have no choice (and pay for it) or you switch to Linux or something.
    My concern is that if I decide to change my 4 year old MOBO after the free upgrade period ends next year I won't be able to use Windows 10 on that system any more because the Windows 10 licence you get with the free upgrade is an OEM licence tied to the system (MOBO) where you activated it (even if your previous Windows version was a Retail one and even if the current Windows 10 EULA seems to imply the opposite). Also, I have read contradictory versions about the possibility of downgrading back to your previous Windows version in that case. My Windows 7 Retail licence will have support until 2020 so I prefer keeping it for now until all this is clarified (hopefully before the free upgrade period ends next year).
    Mudzgut wrote: »
    EDIT: Just looked at the email and saw I can un-reserve my copy. I do believe I'll do that tonight when I get home from work.
    EXTRA EDIT: Just read Pixie's comment about holding out. Maybe I won't un-reserve, but will continually harass my MS friend if it messes me up in any way, shape or form. (Including unwarranted complaints because I can get away with it.)
    Don't worry, you can cancel the "reservation" and still "reserve" the free upgrade again in the future. Just remember you will need to perform it before 29th July next year. After that day the free upgrade will be no more.

    BTW, I posted this in the Windows 10 thread related to the Windows 10 free-upgrade licence transfer, but I thing it may be interesting for many of you here too:
    Here in this thread from a Windows related forum you can read the complain/request a person sent to Microsoft by email regarding this subject.
    According to his latest posts in the thread (1, 2, 3, 4, 5) he was later contacted by Microsoft Corporate HQ. After some discussion they reached an agreement and was offerend a second standalone Windows 10 licence+key with permanent full transfer rights. He also mentions that is possible that the wording within the EULA will soon be changed.

    HiT BiT on
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    KalnaurKalnaur I See Rain . . . Centralia, WARegistered User regular
    Kalnaur wrote: »
    Madican wrote: »
    I want my OS to be a product, not a service like Microsoft wants.

    This would be why I don't like Adobe's subscription based Photoshop and friends (Creative Cloud Bullshit). In fact, beyond Everquest I struggle to think of any software with a subscription that I've ever used.

    Conversely, I think Adobe's service is fantastic. I can pay a few bucks a month and get a product I otherwise would have had to pay $TEXAS for every couple years, and it stays updated with no fuss. Before they introduced the subscription model, I was still stuck using Photoshop 6.0 (so old it took voodoo and blood magic to get it to install and run on Win7) because upgrading was prohibitively expensive.

    What's not to love? So I don't "own" it? Previous versions weren't "owned" either.

    My wife purchased the Creative Suite 6 package. It was around $2000. I don't need it to be updated. It is the first and possibly only version of these things that I need. It does the functions I want it to do, works with my Wacom tablet, and thus far, works just fine with my OS.

    The thing is, that 2000 could pay for 8 and 1/3rd years of their service. The last time I got any Adobe products was about 10 years prior to purchasing the "new" software (and that old one was $500 because I bought it when I was going to school). Also, I don't have $20 a month every month to use something that is arguably one of the key components of me making art right now.

    Creative Cloud is great, all but for the fact that I am not the target demographic. Which is odd, since I am an artist.

    I make art things! deviantART: Kalnaur ::: Origin: Kalnaur ::: UPlay: Kalnaur
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    MadicanMadican No face Registered User regular
    I read that price and cannot parse it. The number floats through my mind without registering because surely it can't possibly be real. An extra zero got tacked on there, that must be it.

    Though I had student discount edition Photoshop so that's my experience.

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    Pixelated PixiePixelated Pixie They/Them Registered User regular
    HiT BiT wrote: »
    Pretty sure you hold-outs can only hold out so long. Win10 is not going away and there's not going to be a Win11. You either take the plunge (while it's free) or wait until you have no choice (and pay for it) or you switch to Linux or something.
    My concern is that if I decide to change my 4 year old MOBO after the free upgrade period ends next year I won't be able to use Windows 10 on that system any more because the Windows 10 licence you get with the free upgrade is an OEM licence tied to the system (MOBO) where you activated it (even if your previous Windows version was a Retail one and even if the current Windows 10 EULA seems to imply the opposite). Also, I have read contradictory versions about the possibility of downgrading back to your previous Windows version in that case. My Windows 7 Retail licence will have support until 2020 so I prefer keeping it for now until all this is clarified (hopefully before the free upgrade period ends next year).

    As someone who has been using OEM versions of Windows (bought from Newegg or Amazon) because they tend to be cheaper than "full retail" versions for 10+ years across multiple computers, I can safely say this is not an issue.

    Change your mobo? No biggie - Windows will activate. Rebuild the whole damn rig? Doesn't matter - Windows will activate. And if, by some chance, it won't activate automatically you can call MS and do it by phone. This has literally never been an issue for me, anyone in my family, or any person I know IRL. And I've built/rebuilt/modified a metric shit-ton of computers.

    Heck, there's a Win10 FAQ somewhere (I can't dig up link where I am) that specifically addresses this and says it will work fine.

    ~~ Pixie on Steam ~~
    ironzerg wrote: »
    Chipmunks are like nature's nipple clamps, I guess?
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    AdelliosAdellios Registered User regular
    Thanks to the Classy People in steam chat. You da best.

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    KalnaurKalnaur I See Rain . . . Centralia, WARegistered User regular
    Madican wrote: »
    I read that price and cannot parse it. The number floats through my mind without registering because surely it can't possibly be real. An extra zero got tacked on there, that must be it.

    Though I had student discount edition Photoshop so that's my experience.

    The first creative suite I got was around 500 with a student discount. We got it because just Photoshop was like 400 with the discount.

    I make art things! deviantART: Kalnaur ::: Origin: Kalnaur ::: UPlay: Kalnaur
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    shdwcastershdwcaster South DakotaRegistered User regular
    Thanks to @Drake for One Way Heroics

    A gift that will be remembered for quite some time for coming on the same day I got official confirmation that I will be starting a new job and moving to a new state next month!

    0sKleNnl.jpg

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    baudattitudebaudattitude Registered User regular
    Madican wrote: »
    I read that price and cannot parse it. The number floats through my mind without registering because surely it can't possibly be real. An extra zero got tacked on there, that must be it.

    Though I had student discount edition Photoshop so that's my experience.

    I did a couple of months of customer service for Adobe during the tech crash in the early 2000s. The justification for the price on the full Creative Suite is that the intended customer for Photoshop is the graphic artist professional who is using it to, presumably, make many times their purchase price back in revenue. It's not intended for people who want to slap a funny caption on a cat photo; those customers would be just as happy with Photoshop Elements (Which is pretty good! And a lot less cumbersome than the full CS, and about 80 bucks on Amazon usually)

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    KarozKaroz Registered User regular
    What I want are multiple purchase options be it a single, large one time purchase, a monthly/yearly rate, etc., so that people can choose how they want to pay. I doubt I can fight this tide forever but all these monthly bills really add up.

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    cooljammer00cooljammer00 Hey Small Christmas-Man!Registered User regular
    Quical wrote: »
    Did I hear birthday?

    God damnit. You go to bed thinking you're safe and wake up to the serious sam collection from "Pixelated Pixie".
    "early birthday presents are the best" indeed! Thanks Pixie, it's not my birthday, but thanks. I'll redeem this when I get home from work.

    Reminder that "cooljammer00" has his birthday on the 21st which is actually BEFORE mine. So... *coughs*

    Yeah, but you made yourself a target by being all...British and gift-y with those copies of Her Story, or whatever it was you were gifting to people a while back.

    If there's one thing this thread loves, it's gift piling on the British and the generous.

    steam_sig.png

    3DS Friend Code: 2165-6448-8348 www.Twitch.TV/cooljammer00
    Battle.Net: JohnDarc#1203 Origin/UPlay: CoolJammer00
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    Pixelated PixiePixelated Pixie They/Them Registered User regular
    GNvUl7R.png

    So this happened.

    It's not enough to have every VN on Steam thrown at me. Now I'm getting the tools to make my own VNs.

    Hm. This has potential... :D

    Thanks @mildlymorbid! <3<3<3

    ~~ Pixie on Steam ~~
    ironzerg wrote: »
    Chipmunks are like nature's nipple clamps, I guess?
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    KarozKaroz Registered User regular
    edited August 2015
    Steam Thread VN, where you try navigate the classy pages, gifting people while trying not to get gifted yourself.
    It doesn't work.

    Karoz on
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    StollsStolls Brave Corporate Logo Chicago, ILRegistered User regular
    edited August 2015
    As my family/friends' guinea pig for Windows 10, so far I haven't had any serious problems. The general improvement on processor overhead offsets the UI changes I'm not happy with, and most of the egregious stuff can be disabled on installation; some fine-tuning with video and audio drivers, but nothing actually broke during the upgrade, which is far better than I was expecting. That said, the thing Jazz posted is a reminder that any number of things can be buried in a EULA where I'd never notice it, and it's not always immediately obvious what the new user has gotten themselves into.

    So far I'm still giving it a qualified 'yes', but that could change if stuff suddenly stops working, or Microsoft starts sending SWAT teams after people with torrent software.

    Stolls on
    kstolls on Twitch, streaming weekends at 9pm CST!
    Now playing: Teardown and Baldur's Gate 3 (co-op)
    Sunday Spotlight: Horror Tales: The Wine
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    cooljammer00cooljammer00 Hey Small Christmas-Man!Registered User regular
    Corpekata wrote: »

    Bargain bin pricing for a port of a few years old WiiU title that used the WiiU hardware in a specific, non reproduceable way, and they have done little to no press for it or even told people how the game will run without a 2nd screen.

    Huh.

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    3DS Friend Code: 2165-6448-8348 www.Twitch.TV/cooljammer00
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    KoopahTroopahKoopahTroopah The koopas, the troopas. Philadelphia, PARegistered User regular
    Corpekata wrote: »

    Bargain bin pricing for a port of a few years old WiiU title that used the WiiU hardware in a specific, non reproduceable way, and they have done little to no press for it or even told people how the game will run without a 2nd screen.

    Huh.

    We'll see. I like ZombiU, but really the whole looking down at my gamepad screen was what made it scary.

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    MadicanMadican No face Registered User regular
    Madican wrote: »
    I read that price and cannot parse it. The number floats through my mind without registering because surely it can't possibly be real. An extra zero got tacked on there, that must be it.

    Though I had student discount edition Photoshop so that's my experience.

    I did a couple of months of customer service for Adobe during the tech crash in the early 2000s. The justification for the price on the full Creative Suite is that the intended customer for Photoshop is the graphic artist professional who is using it to, presumably, make many times their purchase price back in revenue. It's not intended for people who want to slap a funny caption on a cat photo; those customers would be just as happy with Photoshop Elements (Which is pretty good! And a lot less cumbersome than the full CS, and about 80 bucks on Amazon usually)

    I had Photoshop Elements. It sucked, because all my classes used actual Photoshop.

    To be honest I used a cracked copy of Photoshop for the entirety of my AA degree so I could get homework done. Then things happened and whoops it was a bad idea to choose a "cushy" AA to focus on because my career path just went kerput. So I stopped using Photoshop and the rest of the CS because no more reason.

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    CorpekataCorpekata Registered User regular
    edited August 2015
    Corpekata wrote: »

    Bargain bin pricing for a port of a few years old WiiU title that used the WiiU hardware in a specific, non reproduceable way, and they have done little to no press for it or even told people how the game will run without a 2nd screen.

    Huh.

    They have actually. The main thing they didn't release was price or technical specs, but they detailed how it will deal without the gamepad a few days after the port announcement.

    I think people kind of oversell the Gamepad stuff in ZombiU. It created some tension with like unlocking stuff, but the majority of its' uses weren't all that compelling. Yeah, you need to look away from the screen to view your inventory but anyone that's ever played a game without a pause function like Dark Souls is going to just manage their inventory in a safe and secure spot. They will probably reproduce the scanning mechanic just like Resident Evil Revelations did, and really, it's a shitty mechanic in both games anyway that was needlessly gimmicky. Sniping is obvious. Radar will be a minimap or map function.

    The only thing that will be really lost are the few moments like using keypads and whatnot, which can still be reproduced, just not as well. And the multiplayer, which was nuked.


    Then again I've always found most new console control gimmicks pretty insufferable and often overcomplicating things. I just finished Everyone's Gone to the Rapture on PS4 and they mapped shit to the fucking Sixaxis that surprise, was awkward and fiddly as shit, like every other game that's tried to use it.

    Corpekata on
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    Steel AngelSteel Angel Registered User regular
    Madican wrote: »
    I read that price and cannot parse it. The number floats through my mind without registering because surely it can't possibly be real. An extra zero got tacked on there, that must be it.

    Though I had student discount edition Photoshop so that's my experience.

    I did a couple of months of customer service for Adobe during the tech crash in the early 2000s. The justification for the price on the full Creative Suite is that the intended customer for Photoshop is the graphic artist professional who is using it to, presumably, make many times their purchase price back in revenue. It's not intended for people who want to slap a funny caption on a cat photo; those customers would be just as happy with Photoshop Elements (Which is pretty good! And a lot less cumbersome than the full CS, and about 80 bucks on Amazon usually)

    Photoshop is a weird thing because it's a professional software suite but unlike most professional software often gets sold to individuals as opposed to businesses. Not sure I can think of any other software tools that do that. The others I know of that can be used to make things that can generate the user money also are aimed at hobbyists so the price is lower and there's not as much support. For example, the VN maker Pixie just got gifted.

    I mean, I'm sure that professional DJ and audio editing software that cost a pretty penny exist as well but I've known people who worked freelance doing that stuff that were able to make do with less expensive stuff.

    Big Dookie wrote: »
    I found that tilting it doesn't work very well, and once I started jerking it, I got much better results.

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    shdwcastershdwcaster South DakotaRegistered User regular
    Stolls wrote: »
    As my family/friends' guinea pig for Windows 10, so far I haven't had any serious problems. The general improvement on processor overhead offsets the UI changes I'm not happy with, and most of the egregious stuff can be disabled on installation; some fine-tuning with video and audio drivers, but nothing actually broke during the upgrade, which is far better than I was expecting. That said, the thing Jazz posted is a reminder that any number of things can be buried in a EULA where I'd never notice it, and it's not always immediately obvious what the new user has gotten themselves into.

    So far I'm still giving it a qualified 'yes', but that could change if stuff suddenly stops working, or Microsoft starts sending SWAT teams after people with torrent software.

    I'll add that my Win10 upgrade experience was mostly painless as well. I upgraded my desktop, primary game rig, from Win7, and my laptop/mobile desktop replacement from Win8.1. Getting rid of Win8 was phenomenal, I'm never going back on that machine.

    On my desktop, the upgrade was pretty painless, however, a few old legacy titles (X-Wing/TIE Fighter remastered editions, XWvT) simply don't work on Win10. Neither does my CH Products control software, likely because the manufacturer only does joysticks as a side business and will get around to updating the drivers... eventually.

    So I ended up setting up a new Win7 boot side for those games and systems that need it. Setting up the dual boot was also pretty painless, and now everything works, one way or the other.

    I'm not going to get into the privacy argument stuff, other than to say that I think the naysayers are generally blowing this well out of proportion, and it feels like we get this same set of "Well, they COULD potentially do this, maybe!!! OMG EVIL!!!" toothnashing with every new OS, dating back to at least XP.

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    chasmchasm Ill-tempered Texan Registered User regular
    Yeah, the new Star Wars remasters not working is why I'm not upgrading to Win10. Also, hi, Steam Thread! Been away for a bit settling into a new job and spending more time growing my side business, so I haven't been able to spend much time online aside from a few hours here and there during my days off. Everyone still batshit fucking loco with class? *checks page 1* YUP.

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    XBL : lJesse Custerl | MWO: Jesse Custer | Best vid ever. | 2nd best vid ever.
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    mildlymorbidmildlymorbid Registered User regular
    Berylline is determined for me to see the light.

    Dq9dfhT.jpg

    I'll play Night of the Rabbit later tonight.

    Thanks @Berylline for the bundle.

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