Yeeaaah, that'd probably kill destiny. The carrot on the end of the stick is what keeps me going long after I've done the raid a billion times. If I can just buy all the carrots, why even play?
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OnTheLastCastlelet's keep it haimish for the peripateticRegistered Userregular
But you already put in the time to get those items. Why would that change anything for you?
You guys are being really emotional over something that... doesn't affect you at all. Is it a pvp thing? Like you only are okay with being shot by a Last Word that someone farmed for instead of them being able to buy it?
I don't want a paid store, they already have the money they're getting from me, but I'm failing to see how someone paying for the exact same items affects me at all. Would you be okay with an auction house in the game like WoW?
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OnTheLastCastlelet's keep it haimish for the peripateticRegistered Userregular
Oh, so if the items were able to be bought, it would ruin the fun of knowing you had to spend the time to get them. That did happen in Diablo 3 initially so I get that argument.
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GoodKingJayIIIThey wanna get mygold on the ceilingRegistered Userregular
Some of you guys don't know what pay to win means. If you can buy the thing, it has to be BETTER than what you can't buy.
So if you can buy any exotic currently out, that is not pay to win. That's paying to save time needed to find it.
If you can buy an item that is better than what's currently out, that's pay to win.
Kind of a really important distinction since some butts are being clenched.
As I guy who played Diablo 3 from day 1, the D3 Gold Auction House and Real Money Auction House fit this description perfectly edit: in that they did not function on a pay to win model.
However, I'd still say they had an extremely negative impact on the game.
People have datamined consumables from the Eververse inventory.
There is one that levels a subclass completely. :rotate:
It begins
Still not Pay to Win. That's the kind of thing I would absolutely pay for if I felt like deleting a character and doing it over again. I have absolutely zero problem with this because it's just a time sink I'm avoiding. Now, buying gear? No. I do not want that. Full stop, get off my lawn, what's the matter with kids today?
Ships, Shaders, Sparrows Emblems, Emotes, Level-Me-Ups are all A-OK by me.
Primaries, Specials, Heavies, any armor (including class), Ghosts, Artifacts: fuck no.
That sure is a long walk you're taking.
I hate when people say things that I don't understand.
Oh come on. You know exactly what I meant, and if you didn't, I'll explain it:
Sleeper Simulant/Touch of Malice/Chaperone/The First Curse require doing some pretty specific things in the game in order to get them. Just saying "here, take $10 and I'll bypass doing all that shit" is "bypassing actually playing the game." You're going to earn the levels and subclasses no matter what and it requires near-zero effort on your part.
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MaddocI'm Bobbin Threadbare, are you my mother?Registered Userregular
Nah, what hurt Diablo 3 was the terrible affix system that made only very few items any good and the lack of any assurance that you'd get something useful or even usable by your class.
The real money auction house just sort of sat on the sidelines and made those problems way more obvious.
People have datamined consumables from the Eververse inventory.
There is one that levels a subclass completely. :rotate:
It begins
Still not Pay to Win. That's the kind of thing I would absolutely pay for if I felt like deleting a character and doing it over again. I have absolutely zero problem with this because it's just a time sink I'm avoiding. Now, buying gear? No. I do not want that. Full stop, get off my lawn, what's the matter with kids today?
Ships, Shaders, Sparrows Emblems, Emotes, Level-Me-Ups are all A-OK by me.
Primaries, Specials, Heavies, any armor (including class), Ghosts, Artifacts: fuck no.
That sure is a long walk you're taking.
Why? Those things are nice extras, with a ton of current options already in game for customization. Adding more isn't something that changes actual gameplay, and for some people don't even really matter. For those that do they have other means to get more if they want. That doesn't hurt anyone. And it doesn't take anything away from the game that you already paid for. You're not losing anything.
The alternative would be to add them in a major DLC later, which you'd be paying for anyway, so what is the difference? This way the people who don't care or don't want them (I'm not impressed with any of the new emotes) aren't paying for things they don't want anyway.
It's actually better than the alternative.
And buying items to level subclasses; who cares? If you, personally, don't feel like spending that much time with crap perks before you can get into the nitty gritty of a subclass (and for some subclasses even really participate in major content; lacking some perks makes you a liability in strikes and crucible). paying to level your subclass doesn't effect other players in any way. Whether or not I spend all day leveling Stormcaller through quests, missions, and bounties, and then jump into Crucible or use an item to level it up behind the scenes, and jump into crucible, the end result for other players is no difference at all.
Gear is different because gear is what keeps some people playing. Subclass leveling isn't something that has any bearing on people continuing to play, and pay for further content. So let someone bypass it if they want.
As an example, somehow I never got the sparrow for the Warmind mission. Re-doing it doesn't grant it, so currently, it is impossible for me to get. My Hunter hasn't touched TTK missions and my Warlock has barely started. I have the free level 25 item sitting in my vault; if I could buy subclass leveling, I probably wouldn't hesitate to grab a few, remake my hunter or warlock, if for no other reason than to get that fucking sparrow. Subsequently, I could just pass on all of their current gear and items and be back in the exact same place in a day or two, nothing lost, a ton of my time saved, and absolutely no effect on other players.
Bungie and Activision are gonna do what they're gonna do with the paid content. It's 100% fine to not be a fan of it, hell, even be angry about it; to a point. They've still not withheld anything you already paid for, so anything down the line is not owed to you, and they are allowed to do with it what they see fit.
Again, you will have lost nothing by them providing these things. If future content is sold in this manner, it will simply be an alternative to the big chunk DLC. In that regard, it'd probably be better for those who don't want the little things and just want missions and such. And if they still do major DLC, again, the addition of an in-game store selling extra stuff effects the non-buyer zero.
You've already got everything you paid for, and will continue to have it. Any future thing they add is available to you like anyone else. You can buy it or not, nothing about that changes anything. Straight up selling the 'best' gear is the only thing they could do that would actually effect other players; and even then it is ultimately a matter of time vs money anyway. They sell exotic engrams? Ok. They already do that, with Xur; the difference would simply be spending a ton of time farming coins vs taking the time you've spent earning money in life, to get them that way. They decide to sell legendary engrams? Already in-game with the Cryptarchs for marks, that have zero cap a week. It's simply a tradeoff. EDIT: regardless they're substantially less likely to sell gear, ever, because that is what makes people log on and play.
I'm pretty "play how you want", but anybody who did the 3oC trick with Draxis and a rocket launcher before they fixed it probably shouldn't complain about how much gameplay they put in to get their shiny. Like I mean, more power to you, have fun, but it's not like the labors of Hercules you went through there. Same thing with the Loot Cave. And everybody used the Loot Cave.
Edit: This is a general statement. I don't know who did what. Don't much care.
PS, you can skip playing the game as a baby sub-class that can't even jump pretty simply. Every time you turn in a bounty as your main class, before you do so, switch to the sub class you want to try out. Then, switch back and continue to play as normal.
This is even BETTER in TTK, as any time you dump motes of light to level gear also levels your subclass.
Doing those two things while you play the subclass you enjoy the most (and presumably, have maxed already) means that before you know it, you'll have a fully (or at least, almost fully) leveled subclass to try out at your leisure.
Diagnosed with AML on 6/1/12. Read about it: www.effleukemia.com
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MaddocI'm Bobbin Threadbare, are you my mother?Registered Userregular
I'm pretty "play how you want", but anybody who did the 3oC trick with Draxis and a rocket launcher before they fixed it probably shouldn't complain about how much gameplay they put in to get their shiny. Like I mean, more power to you, have fun, but it's not like the labors of Hercules you went through there. Same thing with the Loot Cave. And everybody used the Loot Cave.
Edit: This is a general statement. I don't know who did what. Don't much care.
I didn't use the loot cave because it was boring and I realized almost immediately that nothing good decrypted from engrams anyway.
People have datamined consumables from the Eververse inventory.
There is one that levels a subclass completely. :rotate:
It begins
Still not Pay to Win. That's the kind of thing I would absolutely pay for if I felt like deleting a character and doing it over again. I have absolutely zero problem with this because it's just a time sink I'm avoiding. Now, buying gear? No. I do not want that. Full stop, get off my lawn, what's the matter with kids today?
Ships, Shaders, Sparrows Emblems, Emotes, Level-Me-Ups are all A-OK by me.
Primaries, Specials, Heavies, any armor (including class), Ghosts, Artifacts: fuck no.
That sure is a long walk you're taking.
I hate when people say things that I don't understand.
Oh come on. You know exactly what I meant, and if you didn't, I'll explain it:
Sleeper Simulant/Touch of Malice/Chaperone/The First Curse require doing some pretty specific things in the game in order to get them. Just saying "here, take $10 and I'll bypass doing all that shit" is "bypassing actually playing the game." You're going to earn the levels and subclasses no matter what and it requires near-zero effort on your part.
What about guns that aren't attached to quests? That just come from drops that players are going to earn no matter what and requires near-zero effort on their part?
What if the Eververse started selling Strange Coins? I mean those are just gonna be earned through playing, like experience, and requires basically near-zero effort on the player's part...
What if the Eververse started selling Engrams? I mean those are also earned through playing, like experience, and requires basically near-zero effort on the player's part...
I'm not saying that they are definitely going to do this, but its an interesting conversation to have, I think. Mainly because to me earning experience is playing the game and allowing people to bypass it with real world money amounts to pay-to-win.
| Zinnar on most things | Avatar by Blameless Cleric
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OnTheLastCastlelet's keep it haimish for the peripateticRegistered Userregular
Yeah, Diablo had a ton of gear problems that the auction house brought out in extreme relief. Such as how no matter what sort of item you found, you would instantly find a way better one on the AH. Like waaaaaaaaaaaay better.
In Destiny, there's a much narrower range of perks and the stats aren't that important. No one can't get past some content from their grenade coming up in 34 vs. 25 seconds.
And Fawst, you just listed really new quests that give specific exotics and then went straight to BUT IF PEOPLE CAN BUY THESE which is not even what we're talking about in this entirely hypothetical conversation.
Anyway, it's not happening so why is there so much angst going on again?
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CrayonSleeps in the wrong bed.TejasRegistered Userregular
People act like time isn't a currency we all spend, yet it's commonly used by critics and journalists as a criticism of pay-to-win games. But, who cares about the argument and I'm not interested in having it again and again and again. If you want to buy it, then do. If you don't, don't. Give an inch, take a mile. Only time will be able to determine where this goes.
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MaddocI'm Bobbin Threadbare, are you my mother?Registered Userregular
How about we wait until they actually do something objectionable to get all salty over
Instead of getting riled up over hypothetical situations
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds.2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
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OnTheLastCastlelet's keep it haimish for the peripateticRegistered Userregular
There's definitely a really interesting conversation to be had about buying items vs. earning items and people's perceptions of value in money vs. time.
Ask a guy with a baby about how he feels not being able to raid with his friends during the few hours a week he gets to play games and you'll get a much different story than a college sophomore taking 12 credit hours.
The only freemium games that have gotten it right are MOBAs, IMO. I hate pay to win.
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OnTheLastCastlelet's keep it haimish for the peripateticRegistered Userregular
You guys have no idea how happy I was to get that level to 25 thing because I wanted to play a warlock but no fucking way was I spending much time on it.
There's definitely a really interesting conversation to be had about buying items vs. earning items and people's perceptions of value in money vs. time.
Ask a guy with a baby about how he feels not being able to raid with his friends during the few hours a week he gets to play games and you'll get a much different story than a college sophomore taking 12 credit hours.
Exactly. Its interesting the different perspectives we've already had in this thread as well as people's different thresholds on what would be considered "Pay to Win".
I'm not sure why people are acting like this is a bad conversation or that people are getting "angsty" or "freaking out".
I worry about the future of the cash shop in Destiny and started a conversation to see where people stood in terms of paying for things within Destiny.
Since we're all speculating, let's look at what else was found in the database!
NEW 6-PLAYER CRUCIBLE MAP(!): Cathedral of Dusk It's a 6-player map for teams of 3. People are thinking that this was designed to be a Trials map, perhaps for this weekend?
DIGITAL COLLECTOR'S EDITION REWARDS
If you bought the Digital Collector's Edition of TTK before the price drop/collector's extras DLC announced Bungie said that they would give some kind of reward or bonus to you. Well, it's here. Players in some regions got 2000 Silver, others get theHumble Gestures consumable, which unlocks all the emotes.
THREE MORE CLASSIFIED EMOTES
Hmmm. Coming soon, I hope. Might want to hold on to your free silver!
CONSUMABLES
Here's where everyone is getting antsy. There is one for fully leveling a subclass, and one for each class that comes with a Subclass Infusion, weapon telemetries, and a Spark of Light (aka a level 25 boost). It's currently unknown how to get these, most likely Tess will sell them for silver sometime soon.
Crippl3 on
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ObiFettUse the ForceAs You WishRegistered Userregular
The "returns" page at Tess says "consumable items are nonreturnable."
So its not a matter of if Tess is gonna sell consumables, but when.
The only freemium games that have gotten it right are MOBAs, IMO is DOTA. I hate pay to win.
Fixed.
I mean, I was into League from closed beta until a couple years ago (kids do that). I enjoyed it, but as far as saying what is done right, DOTA kills LoL.
Every character is always unlocked for everyone, every game mode is available. The only thing available for purchase is cosmetics (skins, dances, UIs, sound packs, et al). And even better than that, there is a marketplace for users to resell said cosmetics! Like a character, go on the market and pick up all the items for a set for under $.50!
Immobius. You get the quest to get it when you hit rank 3 2 at the gunsmith on a Titan. It's pretty awesome, even if you aren't specifically playing an Armor of Light defender.
The most common thread in these conversations is that anyone who says they don't like the idea of something is immediately labeled as salty or emotional. It's absurd. We get it, there are fans of Destiny in the Destiny thread. Talking about possibilities for Destiny's future does not make anyone a bad, overly emotional, salty person.
"I wouldn't play that game if they sold that stuff" is that offensive to you?
Posts
You guys are being really emotional over something that... doesn't affect you at all. Is it a pvp thing? Like you only are okay with being shot by a Last Word that someone farmed for instead of them being able to buy it?
I don't want a paid store, they already have the money they're getting from me, but I'm failing to see how someone paying for the exact same items affects me at all. Would you be okay with an auction house in the game like WoW?
As I guy who played Diablo 3 from day 1, the D3 Gold Auction House and Real Money Auction House fit this description perfectly edit: in that they did not function on a pay to win model.
However, I'd still say they had an extremely negative impact on the game.
I hate when people say things that I don't understand.
Oh come on. You know exactly what I meant, and if you didn't, I'll explain it:
Sleeper Simulant/Touch of Malice/Chaperone/The First Curse require doing some pretty specific things in the game in order to get them. Just saying "here, take $10 and I'll bypass doing all that shit" is "bypassing actually playing the game." You're going to earn the levels and subclasses no matter what and it requires near-zero effort on your part.
The real money auction house just sort of sat on the sidelines and made those problems way more obvious.
Why? Those things are nice extras, with a ton of current options already in game for customization. Adding more isn't something that changes actual gameplay, and for some people don't even really matter. For those that do they have other means to get more if they want. That doesn't hurt anyone. And it doesn't take anything away from the game that you already paid for. You're not losing anything.
The alternative would be to add them in a major DLC later, which you'd be paying for anyway, so what is the difference? This way the people who don't care or don't want them (I'm not impressed with any of the new emotes) aren't paying for things they don't want anyway.
It's actually better than the alternative.
And buying items to level subclasses; who cares? If you, personally, don't feel like spending that much time with crap perks before you can get into the nitty gritty of a subclass (and for some subclasses even really participate in major content; lacking some perks makes you a liability in strikes and crucible). paying to level your subclass doesn't effect other players in any way. Whether or not I spend all day leveling Stormcaller through quests, missions, and bounties, and then jump into Crucible or use an item to level it up behind the scenes, and jump into crucible, the end result for other players is no difference at all.
Gear is different because gear is what keeps some people playing. Subclass leveling isn't something that has any bearing on people continuing to play, and pay for further content. So let someone bypass it if they want.
As an example, somehow I never got the sparrow for the Warmind mission. Re-doing it doesn't grant it, so currently, it is impossible for me to get. My Hunter hasn't touched TTK missions and my Warlock has barely started. I have the free level 25 item sitting in my vault; if I could buy subclass leveling, I probably wouldn't hesitate to grab a few, remake my hunter or warlock, if for no other reason than to get that fucking sparrow. Subsequently, I could just pass on all of their current gear and items and be back in the exact same place in a day or two, nothing lost, a ton of my time saved, and absolutely no effect on other players.
Bungie and Activision are gonna do what they're gonna do with the paid content. It's 100% fine to not be a fan of it, hell, even be angry about it; to a point. They've still not withheld anything you already paid for, so anything down the line is not owed to you, and they are allowed to do with it what they see fit.
Again, you will have lost nothing by them providing these things. If future content is sold in this manner, it will simply be an alternative to the big chunk DLC. In that regard, it'd probably be better for those who don't want the little things and just want missions and such. And if they still do major DLC, again, the addition of an in-game store selling extra stuff effects the non-buyer zero.
You've already got everything you paid for, and will continue to have it. Any future thing they add is available to you like anyone else. You can buy it or not, nothing about that changes anything. Straight up selling the 'best' gear is the only thing they could do that would actually effect other players; and even then it is ultimately a matter of time vs money anyway. They sell exotic engrams? Ok. They already do that, with Xur; the difference would simply be spending a ton of time farming coins vs taking the time you've spent earning money in life, to get them that way. They decide to sell legendary engrams? Already in-game with the Cryptarchs for marks, that have zero cap a week. It's simply a tradeoff. EDIT: regardless they're substantially less likely to sell gear, ever, because that is what makes people log on and play.
Origin: Galedrid - Nintendo: Galedrid/3222-6858-1045
Blizzard: Galedrid#1367 - FFXIV: Galedrid Kingshand
Edit: This is a general statement. I don't know who did what. Don't much care.
Yes! But I am days late
This is even BETTER in TTK, as any time you dump motes of light to level gear also levels your subclass.
Doing those two things while you play the subclass you enjoy the most (and presumably, have maxed already) means that before you know it, you'll have a fully (or at least, almost fully) leveled subclass to try out at your leisure.
I didn't use the loot cave because it was boring and I realized almost immediately that nothing good decrypted from engrams anyway.
It's why my Cryptarch is only like rank 40
What about guns that aren't attached to quests? That just come from drops that players are going to earn no matter what and requires near-zero effort on their part?
What if the Eververse started selling Strange Coins? I mean those are just gonna be earned through playing, like experience, and requires basically near-zero effort on the player's part...
What if the Eververse started selling Engrams? I mean those are also earned through playing, like experience, and requires basically near-zero effort on the player's part...
I'm not saying that they are definitely going to do this, but its an interesting conversation to have, I think. Mainly because to me earning experience is playing the game and allowing people to bypass it with real world money amounts to pay-to-win.
wait wait wait
theres different abilities on no backup plans
not just "force barrier lasts longer"
HOW DO I GET THOSE
In Destiny, there's a much narrower range of perks and the stats aren't that important. No one can't get past some content from their grenade coming up in 34 vs. 25 seconds.
And Fawst, you just listed really new quests that give specific exotics and then went straight to BUT IF PEOPLE CAN BUY THESE which is not even what we're talking about in this entirely hypothetical conversation.
Anyway, it's not happening so why is there so much angst going on again?
Instead of getting riled up over hypothetical situations
All the year 2 versions have been updated with that.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
Ask a guy with a baby about how he feels not being able to raid with his friends during the few hours a week he gets to play games and you'll get a much different story than a college sophomore taking 12 credit hours.
oh....shit. I've never noticed.
Does the perk (increased strength and duration) stack with the gauntlets?
Do. Not. Care.
I only care when they start selling guns that are demonstrably better than anything you can get in game.
!!
That is a really awesome change holy shit
I just
bubble and shotgun all the things
but also I want the saint helm DILEMMA
Exactly. Its interesting the different perspectives we've already had in this thread as well as people's different thresholds on what would be considered "Pay to Win".
I'm not sure why people are acting like this is a bad conversation or that people are getting "angsty" or "freaking out".
I worry about the future of the cash shop in Destiny and started a conversation to see where people stood in terms of paying for things within Destiny.
So if the Eververse started selling all the exotics, you'd be ok with it?
What if the Eververse started selling current exotics but with different looks or flair on them?
NEW 6-PLAYER CRUCIBLE MAP(!): Cathedral of Dusk
It's a 6-player map for teams of 3. People are thinking that this was designed to be a Trials map, perhaps for this weekend?
DIGITAL COLLECTOR'S EDITION REWARDS
If you bought the Digital Collector's Edition of TTK before the price drop/collector's extras DLC announced Bungie said that they would give some kind of reward or bonus to you. Well, it's here. Players in some regions got 2000 Silver, others get theHumble Gestures consumable, which unlocks all the emotes.
THREE MORE CLASSIFIED EMOTES
Hmmm. Coming soon, I hope. Might want to hold on to your free silver!
CONSUMABLES
Here's where everyone is getting antsy. There is one for fully leveling a subclass, and one for each class that comes with a Subclass Infusion, weapon telemetries, and a Spark of Light (aka a level 25 boost). It's currently unknown how to get these, most likely Tess will sell them for silver sometime soon.
So its not a matter of if Tess is gonna sell consumables, but when.
Become the Gunsmith's bestie and if you're a titan he'll make you Immobius, a shotgun that uses no ammo whilst inside a bubble.
Also, looks like Bungie comped us 400 Silver....and The Carlton, aka "the last emote I will ever need," is 500.
WHHHHYYYYYyyyyyyyyyyyyyy.......
Fixed.
I mean, I was into League from closed beta until a couple years ago (kids do that). I enjoyed it, but as far as saying what is done right, DOTA kills LoL.
Every character is always unlocked for everyone, every game mode is available. The only thing available for purchase is cosmetics (skins, dances, UIs, sound packs, et al). And even better than that, there is a marketplace for users to resell said cosmetics! Like a character, go on the market and pick up all the items for a set for under $.50!
i neeeeed it but gunsmith rep suckkkks
Immobius. You get the quest to get it when you hit rank 3 2 at the gunsmith on a Titan. It's pretty awesome, even if you aren't specifically playing an Armor of Light defender.
"I wouldn't play that game if they sold that stuff" is that offensive to you?
I can give you the 3 seemingly common answers to this, right here to save you time.
1. STOP FREAKING OUT.
2. I dont care, you shouldnt care either.
3. We've had this conversation over and over again, I think we should stop having this discussion, buy it if you want, if not, dont.
I will await these coming consumables with great curiosity myself though, I really hope they are not going to be inching in to the Pay to Win idea.